Giest118 wrote:There are muslims who are currently integrated into Western society and can function in it and are all fine and dandy. I'll even apply the "fuck-it adjustment" and claim that this is the decisive majority. There are also muslims who want to enter Western countries and are willing to become integrated into Western society. However, check this out--AND FOLLOW ME ON THIS ONE, BECAUSE THIS IS HIGHLY COMPLEX--there are OTHER muslims who want to enter Western countries, but are not willing to integrate to Western values.
Yes, yes and yes. What's complex about it, and what's
new about it either ?
But you're forgetting something very important, I'll get there in a minute.
Giest118 wrote:These people are very likely to fuck some shit up, in some way or another. What do we call this third subset? Does this third subset exist? If so, how do we address this problem?
This. This is a good example of the problem whith people who seem to have just discovered minorities of people from islamic culture exist, and that islam is a also a complex world experiencing a long multi-layered crisis.
One of those, well, several layers within larger ones, concerns the 'diasporas' (rather fake ones). Nobody which I've heard or read going nuts over islam these past years ever tries to look closer at these communities to see what they are really made of, or they will only point at the worst aspects. For instance my country, which has an important muslim minority mostly of north-african origin, legacy of our colonial era, has most efficiently left them remain second class citizens, because of a lack of interest, housing policies and ordinary racism, simple as that, as for the common white folks of my happy cuntry, it's always been normal to give them only the shittiest jobs and give them racial slurs over and over, from school to the grave. And this kept going for generations until several social groups formed and solidified in total indifference from the majority and politics.
Oh there's always the 'well integrated friend' who will serve as the perfect excuse, you mention him like you say 'I eat kebap' like it's telling anything close to the way you feel about the whole matter.
The most important group being of the older generations and their kids become adults who mostly got into the idea that they had to live with the fact that they were not welcome and since it's too late to go back to their countries of origin, to stay firmly silent and quiet in society whatever the level of suffering.
Their kids however, too many of them unfortunately but expectely, turned bad, growing in that unacceptable environment.
Of course they hate us, they hate that country that doesn't want them, the thing is when society screams you're shit, you end up identifying as it and therefore why not give them hell back ?
It forms aggregates of crime and anger directed to that country and their people, gets worse and worse, and one day comes that marvelous outlet of fanatics calling them brothers and sisters who must fight the enemies: us. Why us ? Because isn't that fucking obvious ? Is this really about religion ? Fucking nope.
These terrorist who bombed paris several times these past years were that: french mostly, belgian, a fresher moroccan immigrant and one or two actually from the middle east who were probably the only two real 'imports' from the Syria-Iraq warzone who tagged along with the refugees to infiltrate our territory.
There are several shades of reality for these people, they were born here in that unwelcoming ghetto, traveled to syria and came back ready to kill.
Among those who do that you'll find all kinds of things happened before that showed there were serious problems here to begin, the fact that they live in the same shitty suburbs but their families are form several different countries of origin, their parents or relatives don't necessarily have the same religious obedience and don't pray in the same mosque, there are serious ethnic feuds, and the kids often don't give a crap about any of that only trying to play the gangsta crap to try and escape, to feel they exist in the western world, in their eyes it's their only way to do the same things we do. Well several of these terrorist were more the latter than anything else, but the hatred was probably there growing inside since their teens without anyone really being aware.
Some will ask: after decades of failed integration, did they do anything to try and better adapt ? they didn't make much effort to integrate
apparently, but why would they bother now in our day and age since they know it's pointless ? They're completely crushed, whithin the community, family, school, social life, anywhere.
So of course yes, if you just look globaly and think 'they completely closed themselves so they have a big responsablility over that situation' you can say it's true, but again the responibility is shared, as we also never wanted their reality to be part of ours.
Since as long as I remember news and politics have been instrumentalizing them and those who turned to crime or fanaticism, the faux-news way showing the worst of them every day on tv, especially in times of elections.
Another dramatically inadapted group is that of the newer immigrants who don't even speak the language and actually have no fucking clear idea of the situation here in Europe, they know
nothing, and just heard the stupid things about easier lives from relatives etc, so they come, hardly adapt to anything and find themselves in a deadlock while even though they are more or less efficiently handled by the welfare system, they don't actually have exactly sweet lives, it's more like purgatory.
But did they come to
fuck things up ? You'd have to prove that, the obvious is they came because they're fleeing poverty, but can you really blame their basic shitty ignorance ?
When I travelled to China I've met mostly people who knew only fucking nothing but fantasy bullshit about Europe, and you know what ? we foreigners arriving there in China also know fucking nothing about their country and we look like clumsy fools, even though they're too polite to tell them to our face.
The muslims in those european ghettos are often completely divided, misearable, hated, and those few who couldn't live with that anymore developed murderous intentions, went underground, and they've found a compatible ideology coming from the middle east echoing with their rage (countries which we happen to fuck up and bomb regularily by the way).
We alone certainly didn't do everything to make the situation that bad, but we contributed to it, and what's our answer? "it's all their fault, they're evil and we must reject them even harder"
Wait, isn't that exactly the same way of thinking as those terror madmen ? "Destroy the evil people!" whatever label and whatever side, it's the same.
If something has to be done in Europe with muslims or assimilated minorities where integration has failed, it is certainly not to call to vote far-right and ostracize them even further, spewing our hate of islam, of their so-called communities as a whole since we pretty much identify them all as being it, because it's an easy label and we've all seen the evil fanatics on tv.
Solving this is a fucking huge difficult work for every party, and no one, no country where it's a thing, really wants to do the effort, because it's a cringey mix of affirmative action, control, repression and education on every side, and more importantly tons of fucking money.
It means assuming the mess we and them together have created and let rot on site, and solve things the civilized way.
But of course it's easier to keep on dehumanizing them, vote to deport and eventually kill, isn't it ? Why not ? Who fucking feels anything seeing more drowning on the news ? In my cuntry people are much more moved by the strikes and the Euro matches.
No one gives a fuck, or wait, they are still the voices to tell there are too many blacks and arabs in my team, every time, because it matters, right ?
And of course that's not racist.
And talking about refugees It's even worse to group them together with the already long-installed muslim minorities and once again stick the fat 'islam' label on them, because it is yet another problem, they're not the same people, they arrive under completely different curcumstances, the problem is mostly not the refugees themselves but those who fucking pushed them to flee here.
Our real enemies knew the european people would freak out seeing more of those people they would directly assimilate to those already problematic minorities they've had at home for decades, and worse: to the terrorists as well.
And sending the refugees back means death to potentially
masses of them.
So go on far-righties, keep on spamming "islam is evil!", saying they all want to destroy Europe (like they could lol, a few millions up against over 600, even over 700 if you include Russia, but yeah we all know they hide nukes in their djellabas!) keep on calling for your so desired clash of civilisations and keep on playing offended and be absolute hypocrytes when people call you racist because this is what campaining with ridiculous fallacies and fanatical claims of apocalypse exactly is, funnily mimicking the methods of your archenemies.
I'm tired of thouse loud far-right nutsos, they're worse than the SJW plague because they're trying to trigger some of the most horrible kind of historical events again. If only we could drop them all over Syria, they could do what they want the most and their terror brothers-in-life-philosophy would also enjoy the party.
But I bet they're waiting their political leaders to come to power in their respective countries, and after the EU's collapse, the discriminatory laws to be passed, so they can finally wipe them all out of Europe without risking their personal asses too much.
I'll telll you, with that fucking crisis and ever-increasing unenployment and life getting harder and harder, the number of my people living under the standards of poverty, actually increasing cancer, sucides, and all the gloomy things that happen to a cuntry that's falling apart with its people under more and more pressure and stress, the terrorists actually rank extremely low as mass murderers. And muslims if we have to talk about them as a whole and their role into this, have massively contributed to...nothing. They're the same as ever, closed off in their shitty suburbs and gloom, and the ones gone mad and got into that ISIS and terror thing still only represent a minuscule portion of them (yet we're only seeing them of course).
But there are probably people to think it's again the minorities sucking out all the welfare aid at the expense of the 'rightful' locals, when - the thing racists hate to hear - even though they have the highest uneployment rate, they are enough working jobs to actually contribute to society and make up for the welfare costs.
The tax evasion and tax pressure game to compensate to name only one of our structural problems, put immensely more pressure on us than that minority.
Though again people will always find excuses for businesses and individuals who every year avoid paying billions and billions they owe the country, thanks to tax havens, but not a single one to tolerate that those shitty arabs don't produce more to pay the bills.
Anyway, why the fuck did I write all that ? I've wasted some spleeping time I really need, and it's useless anyway.
