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Iran War. When.
2021 17%  17%  [ 2 ]
2022-2025 25%  25%  [ 3 ]
2026-2030 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
2031-2040 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
2041-2050 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Never 42%  42%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 12
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:29 pm 


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well, at least i'll get to hear about trump in the news or on twitter a bit less. even that is going to be hard to enjoy with smug liberals constantly asserting that "decorum" and "intelligence" are back in the white house while nothing materially changes. if the parks and rec fuckface makes another propaganda series glorifying bureaucracy and liberalism and i have to listen to people talk about how good it is i might snap
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:51 pm 


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Ok, time to talk about grooming.

You take a kid, they start as a blank slate. They're molded into something else by the environment that surrounds them - I've mentioned how Sesame Street has possibly done more to tone down racism by humanizing people of various ethnic backgrounds to children. Chris is probably a better big brother figure than your real older brother who'd do stuff like steal the coins your dead grandfather left you, to buy meth.

This doesn't completely stop just because a foundation is formed by the time we're six, propaganda works - the gay characters on Modern Family, as fangless and desexualized as they are, did help slightly improve the group's social status among some demographics.

Anyway, you know how there's conservatives out there furious about there being cartoon women who aren't sex objects and shit like that? It's easy to dismiss their concerns as non-material and stupid... but it actually does matter a lot for their faction's long term success. It's probably more important, and a better long term on-boarding strategy then the liberals' red baiting.

One observation I'd like you to consider, is the monoculture we live in. TV still is the core rallying point for power. And what is represented there is such a very small sliver of the country - millionaires who happen to live in LA or New York have the vast majority of the representation there. Fly-over country is as foreign, distant and alien as Iraq or Turkey. And contempt for these people tends to radiate from this glowing box - there is parody from a place of understanding, and then there is parody from a place of, at best, apathy.

Whoopi Goldberg (real name: Caryn Johnson. Yes she's literally a Karen.) pretending to hate Trump when he gave her a massive raise is just so fucking unbelievably stupid and people eat it up uncritically.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:11 pm 


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WaPo is back with the bullshit today. Claiming that my vote for Biden was some kind of fucking mandate and I declared my loyalty to the centre right. Guess what? That's fucking bollocks.

I voted against Trump because I was blackmailed after another fixed primary. Lots of people stuck with Trump. The clown car of candidates and the amazing convenient "new normal" for early primaries were invented from thin air to stop Sanders.

The centrists are now (also) claiming they knew more turnout would help the GOP. That's untrue. The internet is filled with the proof. There is no critical mass of centrist pre-election commentary that predicted such an outcome. It's bullshit. It's like listening to Stephen A Smith. They didn't know a thing.

Voter suppression actually hurts the GOP and they should abandon their efforts ASAP. The Dems lost seats because they have no vision or agenda. There is no "silent majority" that supports a lame culture wars agenda with no meaningful representation for most Americans.

More voters didn't "fix" it and it never will. Biden still didn't win a landslide of popular votes--and there is no voting district policy that can affect those individual votes. The GOP didn't "rig" it. The individual popular vote win margin was 2% above a draw.

This was important in the primary. 49% of Americans voted against Biden. How many people voted against him matters. Those aren't my rules. That was established by centrists. You made it up, you must own it. It's your invention. Any centrist that protests must also admit they are full of shit--and probably should stop voting and commenting (due to being full of shit and flip flopping). That means Biden has about a 1% margin of support. There are more than one or two percent of Americans that want change. Biden didn't have enough votes from centrists to win on his own. By his own measurements, Biden has very little mandate--even if we ignore the fact that the Dems faced no "spoiler" challenge.

That's the catch. Sanders proves that Biden doesn't meet his own requirement for a mandate.

If you asked voters who they want to be president with Trump, Biden, and Sanders as candidates, more people will vote against Joe Biden than for him. That's a problem and centrists understand it, because they care about that 100%--and if they protest, they are flip-floppers.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:54 pm 


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Remember the caravan?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:59 pm 


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something in this thread bein suggested about wapo???

Image

but they seem to have so much integrity... what with the buzzfeed-esque "top/best _____ lists" on a carousel on the front page, the intrusive advertisements all over, the paywall to even read, and the smug attitude that if you don't read them that democratic politics will die a horrible death as their headline phrase :[

oh, hey, where else do they put that phrase?

Image

ohhhhhh, right, in superbowl advertisements. what's more democratic than spending millions to air the ad during the most commercialized couple hours of american television and bragging about how your reporters will get kidnapped or killed? (above snip is a montage played to patriotic music followed by two dead reporters lol)

No Matter The Cost. - which is only $1 for an ENTIRE MONTH during Black Friday weekend! or $29 for a full year! think of the value!
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:21 pm 


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Centrists like Biden say the amount of people against a candidate matters.
Therefore, I can claim that Biden has no mandate using Biden's own standard. Anyone that argues is a craven cynical flip-flopper. :-) WaPo must be the darkness where democracy dies, because they are flip floppers. They don't believe in their own definition of democracy. There are more people against Biden than for him. This isn't my standard, so it's unassailable. :-)

So, what's next? The Macron centre-right model? Punish the working class for disease and climate change? Pass draconian laws to keep embarrassing images of the government off the internet?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:11 pm 


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I love how centrists are the new boogeyman.

Until the extreme left can live to learn w/ some shit that comes along w/ the center left, we are going to be in a faux 3 party system and ultimately that means everything to the right of that: the likes of Trump, McConnel, Cruz :?, etc., win. At the end of the day, the opposition can sell the pro-life agenda (even if they don't support it) like free donuts to rally the troops. Until the Bernie or Busters can take a break from cancelling movie stars b/c of their behavior 50 years ago or Trader Joe's branding of their import food line and realize that rallying against a common enemy is a very valid reason to cast a vote, the future is red. As someone who has lived through many elections, the "we have no choice", "lesser of two evils", and "I'm voting against..." bullshit is whorably unoriginal and a bit tiresome. (The only thing worse is "I"m moving to Canada if so and so wins".) Every four years, it comes down to two candidates. Two. If you get one in your lifetime that you truly stand behind, you are lucky.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:13 pm 


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A friend once asked me what was the point of the Oscars. So rich people could feel good about themselves, I replied.

"Doesn't the millions of dollars in their bank accounts do that already?"

It always amused me how well that points out the sociopathy of the rich and powerful - it's not enough to have a ton of money, it's not enough everyone knows your name and face and wants to bang you; you need as many headpats and affirmations that you're a good kitty as possible.

Obama gave them everything, but they hate him because he called them "fat cats" once in his entire life in a speech meant for the plebs.

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More voters didn't "fix" it and it never will.


What kind of voters does kind of matter. The kind of people who'll vote Biden for president and straight republican down ballot, the demographic they reach out to, no. They'll support any sufficiently decorous GOP candidate for president. Decorous on TV, the real world doesn't matter, of course.

CGP's Grey's analogy of more tulips attracting more butterflies certainly came to mind.

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I love how centrists are the new boogeyman.


???????????????????? New?????????????????

The word you're looking for is "capitalist". Just like "globalist", "centrist" is a made up word to groom people into thinking they're good people for giving their consent to the existing ruling class. Who totally aren't going to lead us into social collapse.

Who did you vote for in the primary?


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:32 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
Quote:
I love how centrists are the new boogeyman.


???????????????????? New?????????????????

The word you're looking for is "capitalist". Just like "globalist", "centrist" is a made up word to groom people into thinking they're good people for giving their consent to the existing ruling class. Who totally aren't going to lead us into social collapse.

Who did you vote for in the primary?


Well, new to some people... and no, that's not the word I'm looking for.

I didn't vote in the primary... I was not registered to a party (nor registered to vote at all in the region I was in due to relocation).
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:59 pm 


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Quote:
I didn't vote in the primary


It's the most important vote you have. Well over 10x the power of a vote in the general, which is like pissing into the sea. If someone forced you to pick one, Sanders would have been dead last on your list or close to it, yes?

Remember he wanted to raise your taxes a bunch. Does that not make you seeeethe?

GaijinPunch wrote:
Well, new to some people... and no, that's not the word I'm looking for.


Yes, it is. "Centrist" doesn't have a definition, it's an empty mean-nothing word you're supposed to project vague positive associations with. These associations differ from person to person, much like someone's ideal of "heaven".

If you mean it in the way those engaged in politics mean it: capitalists with decorum who oppose the left above all else and have historically sided with outright fascists through history, then ok. But that doesn't gell with the rest of the point you were making.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:32 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
It's the most important vote you have. Well over 10x the power of a vote in the general, which is like pissing into the sea. If someone forced you to pick one, Sanders would have been dead last on your list or close to it, yes?


Whether it is or not (debatable) doesn't change the fact that I could not. Maybe I could have.. unsure... but w/ all the bullshit surrounding illegal voting this year I wasn't doing shit until I got my voter registration card.

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Remember he wanted to raise your taxes a bunch. Does that not make you seeeethe?


It does not. And this is why if you go on this road with morons like orange808 making assumptions you'll just further divide the better side. I generally do not vote with my wallet. If I did, I'd vote for Bernie since his presidency would be gridlock redefined. I think a well laid out, executable, and electable plan is far more important. Shame on me for being a realist I guess.

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These associations differ from person to person, much like someone's ideal of "heaven".


Exactly - the new boogeyman for some.

Quote:
But that doesn't gell with the rest of the point you were making.


And what point is that? Orange808 branded me "nothing but a centrist" once. Is that an insult? Is it even true? He can't even read. I guess I find it quite amusing as I do have very center or center-right friends that call me a libtard ad infinitum.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:39 pm 


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Yep, the "Mandate" narrative. Most important political issue of our epoch.

Just like how fighting the "Russiagate" narrative prevented the austerity wing of the dems from pushing a center-right dotard as the "safe" candidate in the 2020 primary.

Political tactics are supposed to be evaluated on their intent, not their results!
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:23 pm 


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If you didn't vote in the primary, you aren't engaged at all. Not surprised our resident compassionate conservative stayed home. Probably fapping to Ron Howard--and his deep life experience and connection with real people's lives (in the Hollywood hills).
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:40 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
What kind of voters does kind of matter.


Can you elaborate a little more? Are you just venting about the Democratic Party adopting a GOP-lite platform inside the duopoly?

I was simply pointing out what the numbers say. We just had the highest turnout in our lifetimes and I seriously doubt we will ever see another turnout like that. The results tell us that we have been getting a good sample of the overall voting preferences of all voters. That flies in the face of the common narrative that there was always a magical huge majority of Dems that didn't vote. In fact, the GOP appears to be the party losing a small margin of potential votes when turnout decreases.

Numbers don't lie. People can't seem to accept the data; they can't let go of their "dug in" arguments and dogma. They can't let the evidence speak. The MSM is still holding on to the turnout narrative and "demographics are destiny", despite the election turnout stats.

TLDR: If you're saying that the turnout wasn't there, GOP voters chose Biden, and the "magic" Dem majority is really there, there's no evidence to support that claim. My writing tone is always direct, so my apologies. The people that didn't vote before showed up this time--and put their preference on the record. It turns out: we have been getting a good sample of the overall population already. We do have troubles with individual districts being drawn with political motivations, but there isn't a huge silent untapped mass of potential Dem voters.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:14 pm 


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Well, like I've said before the the electorate itself is massaged into a certain shape.

In the abstract we have overwhelming support for leftist policy - social security, medicare, increasing the minimum wage... even stuff that's completely insane compared to the status quo, like a universal guaranteed income, ranks near 50%. It takes a lot of work to make giving the majority of people a raise non-viable.

It's not just democrats moving as far right as possible - republicans have to be out of touch elites as well. This was an easy election for Trump to win - Biden has constantly gone on record, that we 'ought to cut social security and medicare to balance the budget. All you had to do was air ads of compilations of the man hanging himself with his own words. But instead they wasted it all on goofy wrestlin' nonsense.

I'm not saying Stephen Bannon is some kind of machiavellian genius, just that the man is able to rub two brain cells together and vaguely imagine what some kind of a normal person is like.

Anyway, all I mean that there is a hypothetical kind of politics where increased participation results in heavily unbalanced results, we've seen them in the past with FDR and Reagan. We won't be allowed anything like that any time soon, as we saw the "center-leftishs" and the media aligning in lockstep with the Tories last year... Well, anything positive. Fascism will be allowed to win some day.

Quote:
Not surprised our resident compassionate conservative stayed home. Probably fapping to Ron Howard--and his deep life experience and connection with real people's lives (in the Hollywood hills).


Try to ease up on people a little. There's nothing that says ones' terminal values should be a certain way, and if ones' terminal values supports the apocalypse and they win (which they have) then maybe we deserve the apocalypse.

Politics is already intentionally designed to revolve around hate and fear. It's not like we can change the outcome, it's set in stone. Angry internet fights are extremely pro-capitalist by how crappy they make everyone feel.

... damnit my dream of the DOOMzOnE being a chill place is just that, isn't it. Even during the apocalypse, I bet there won't be any posts like "lol we're so fukked" and "I'm so glad Bryan posted that video on how to eat trees 25 years ago!"


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:53 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
If you didn't vote in the primary, you aren't engaged at all. Not surprised our resident compassionate conservative stayed home. Probably fapping to Ron Howard--and his deep life experience and connection with real people's lives (in the Hollywood hills).


Please don't procreate.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:25 pm 


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Hey Gp! good to see some of the "usual suspects" are still here. Was thinking of you guys and stumbled here again. I can give you a detailed and vivid precourser to the inevitible. Better start with sustainability as your first major concern since it only took us a little over 100 years to muck things up since being industrialized. Government will be humanitys least concern in our grandchildrens future. I know, i have personally whored myself to make a buck in the past. Now i work with my conscience. The planet is dying and like a good human we will wait to the 11th hour to make change.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:48 am 


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Oh man.. good to hear from you! Wish I could say you missed a lot, but as you can see we're on page 303! :D
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:17 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Oh man.. good to hear from you! Wish I could say you missed a lot, but as you can see we're on page 303! :D


Yeah, a lot of smack talk here lol then again i am almost 5 decades old now. What do i know i am getting more grumpy as the time passes. Good news is i finally got to see the "Fresh Prince" reunion on HBO Max. Now thats entertainment!

kitten wrote:
well, at least i'll get to hear about trump in the news or on twitter a bit less. even that is going to be hard to enjoy with smug liberals constantly asserting that "decorum" and "intelligence" are back in the white house while nothing materially changes. if the parks and rec fuckface makes another propaganda series glorifying bureaucracy and liberalism and i have to listen to people talk about how good it is i might snap


People dont realize that some things never change regardless of who is running the show. This was most apparent when Obama sold us on Syria. That was the day i no longer subscribed to any party and lost complete faith in the government. People dont realize things that all people need (energy, food ect) are what control nations. Throw in a dab of social issues and your so far removed from reality its silly while its business as usual. We got all this fancy tech in this day and age yet still have not evolved much in terms of primal instinct. To bad innovation is fueled by greed.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:29 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:10 am 


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lawnspic wrote:
This was most apparent when Obama sold us on Syria. That was the day i no longer subscribed to any party and lost complete faith in the government.


Yeah, I never had any faith in politicians as autonomous individuals, just servants of their employers. That Obama's top donors collectively were banks it was hardly a surprise he did their bidding and they stuffed millions of dollars into his pockets in the form of "speeches" after he was done. (The "speeches" thing really does feel like getting tea-bagged, they can't even be bothered to fake the bribes with something like an asset or a fake job.)

In my naive youth I thought if a boot on the face of humanity was the best we could hope for, Democrats were ever so slightly better. Now that the status quo is irreversibly leading us to collapse, it's a lot harder to continue to settle. Now I guess we're supposed to put our faith in... China? And Thorium? And some other scientific miracles that don't and probably can't exist? I won't be surprised a bit if we do that thing to sky they did in the Matrix by the time I hit 70. Hearing nerds and scientists actually talking about it as a serious possibility to contemplate is hella scary.

Neera Tanden getting announced for the next cabinet today, a woman who said we should bomb Libya and make them pay for it, reassures that nothing will fundamentally change.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:46 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
orange808 wrote:
If you didn't vote in the primary, you aren't engaged at all. Not surprised our resident compassionate conservative stayed home. Probably fapping to Ron Howard--and his deep life experience and connection with real people's lives (in the Hollywood hills).


Please don't procreate.


Because, you believe you should dictate reproductive rights to certain individuals? Not surprising to hear distopian dogma from your type. You always "know better". No, you aren't "joking", you're being yourself: a condecending GOP-lite asshole. :) It's not kidding, it's your personality leaking out. Yes, "those people" shouldn't have children. You gonna follow up with a dog whistle remark about "fathers"?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:05 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
I love how centrists are the new boogeyman.

Until the extreme left can live to learn w/ some shit that comes along w/ the center left, we are going to be in a faux 3 party system and ultimately that means everything to the right of that: the likes of Trump, McConnel, Cruz :?, etc., win. At the end of the day, the opposition can sell the pro-life agenda (even if they don't support it) like free donuts to rally the troops. Until the Bernie or Busters can take a break from cancelling movie stars b/c of their behavior 50 years ago or Trader Joe's branding of their import food line and realize that rallying against a common enemy is a very valid reason to cast a vote, the future is red. As someone who has lived through many elections, the "we have no choice", "lesser of two evils", and "I'm voting against..." bullshit is whorably unoriginal and a bit tiresome. (The only thing worse is "I"m moving to Canada if so and so wins".) Every four years, it comes down to two candidates. Two. If you get one in your lifetime that you truly stand behind, you are lucky.

I really try to stay out of this discourse, and I'm sure I will regret even posting this, but I just wanna say I am happy to see level-headedness in here and I'm sure I'm not the only one even if those who agree prefer to just silently peek back in here from time to time out of morbid curiosity and, I dunno, maybe a hint of masochism.

My wife & I voted for Bernie in the primary, by the way. He didn't get the votes. Joe Biden was not my first, second, or third choice, but he has the wherewithal to be an Actual President and lead this country in a better direction.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:24 am 


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orange808 wrote:
Because, you believe you should dictate reproductive rights to certain individuals? Not surprising to hear distopian dogma from your type. You always "know better". No, you aren't "joking", you're being yourself: a condecending GOP-lite asshole. :) It's not kidding, it's your personality leaking out. Yes, "those people" shouldn't have children. You gonna follow up with a dog whistle remark about "fathers"?


Not at all. You just shouldn't though, buttercup.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:29 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
I really try to stay out of this discourse, and I'm sure I will regret even posting this, but I just wanna say I am happy to see level-headedness in here and I'm sure I'm not the only one even if those who agree prefer to just silently peek back in here from time to time out of morbid curiosity and, I dunno, maybe a hint of masochism.

My wife & I voted for Bernie in the primary, by the way. He didn't get the votes. Joe Biden was not my first, second, or third choice, but he has the wherewithal to be an Actual President and lead this country in a better direction.


Cheers. Joe would not have been my first choice either, but TBH I really didn't care when the primaries were starting to roll. At that time I thought it was a lost cause and I was fighting with my own issues: unemployment. In February, I tipped a glass with some old friends in Tokyo at a Scotish pub and the consensus was Trump would be re-elected. I even said "Unless something bad happens to the economy, I think he has it in the bag". Doh....

Anywho, segue: It looks like we will get to resurrect that David Lynch thread at some point! Although I can't say that Netflix's "every fucking episode at once!!!" model plays well w/ Lynch. Maybe he'll convince them of a slow roll.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:31 am 


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Seems to me that a not too-horrible outcome (within the realm of possibility) would be if Joe, the ol’ back slapper, is able to get a deal to restart and amp up the helicopter drops of cash with Turtle McConnell. Offer up more tax cuts, whatever it takes. And now that Trump has set the template for bullying the Fed, let's do more of that and make sure they don't lift their finger off that trigger button. Unemployment had further to fall from 2016, the FOMC consensus was wrong. Now just need to make sure Yellen stays on team Biden (seems likely).

Of course the GOP will try and revert back to their sacred ‘principle’ of fiscal conservatism, but at least we get to watch them do backflips trying to spin it.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:03 am 


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scrilla4rella wrote:
Of course the GOP will try and revert back to their sacred ‘principle’ of fiscal conservatism, but at least we get to watch them do backflips trying to spin it.

They've already started clutching their pearls about the debt ceiling again, which is of course an implicit threat to shut the government down for the umpteenth time; one can only hope that at least some folks, especially those with sizeable megaphones, finally stop acting like this is a good-faith action, or ever was.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:12 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
especially those with sizeable megaphones, finally stop acting like this is a good-faith action, or ever was.


David Brooks isn't a clueless idiot, that's a character he plays on tv and in the 'zines. He's not going to change, he and his peers are just different aesthetics arguing in favor of the status quo. They have a megaphone for a reason; Grim couldn't even stay at the magazine he helped fund because he was insufficient at licking boot.

You keep pining for vampires to stop being vampires, 'tis weird. You understand in the 'Lucy won't let Charlie Brown kick the football' metaphor, we're the ones who are Charlie Brown, not the democrats, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:18 pm 


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Image

Posting for archival purposes.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:50 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Posting for archival purposes.


Why bother? After they flip-flopped on when it's "okay" to fill vacant positions on the court, it's obvious they are cynical bastards--and they will do or say anything to advance their agenda. They live in the gutter and they are proud of their address.

The cult of Reagan continues. Unfortunately, there is also a strong following of Reagan lover centrists that want to cut "bipartisan" deals with these shitheads. They claim to be sensible "moderates". There's nothing sensible about giving up ground to these maniacs.

Maybe share that graph with "moderate" Democrats and ask them why they would surrender to people that cannot figure who won the election. Making a deal implies partnership. Is that a sensible partner?
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