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Iran War. When.
2021 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
2022-2025 18%  18%  [ 2 ]
2026-2030 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
2031-2040 9%  9%  [ 1 ]
2041-2050 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Never 45%  45%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 11
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:40 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
the point made here is : it's a non-factor on both sides.

half of voters in a good turnout supported Donald J. Trump. everyone needs to accept that and get their head out of the sand.
and I'm not particularly happy about it, that's the part you seem to get wrong. I'm saying : we're doomed. even if Biden squeaks in as prez, Trump still ''wins'' as Kitten said.


Agreed.

But, Trump doesn't really "win". It means the Democratic Party loses, because they can't get those people on board. Centrists say: "That's impossible"? Obama proved centrists are wrong about that, so they can hush.

Here's the future. The rust belt will turn on Biden after he dies nothing for them in four years. So, yes, the GOP wins then--but, that's the plan. The Dems will do diddly.

I saw a quote of my identity politics remark with something about a vocal minority. That wasn't my point. My point is: lots of you believe that melanin and ovaries will grant a magical automatic blue wave. That's bullshit. They don't vote based on skin color or gender. That is identity politics by definition and it won't work.
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Last edited by orange808 on Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:46 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
I saw a quote of my identity politics remark with something about a vocal minority. That wasn't my point. My point is: lots of you believe that melanin and ovaries will grant a magical automatic blue wave. That's bullshit. They don't vote based on skin color or gender. That is identity politics by definition and it won't work.

I actually wasn't quoting you with the identity politics thing, as I'm with you on this one : there was no blue wave. there was no actual enthusiasm for identity politics
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Last edited by FinalBaton on Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:48 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
orange808 wrote:
I saw a quote of my identity politics remark with something about a vocal minority. That wasn't my point. My point is: lots of you believe that melanin and ovaries will grant a magical automatic blue wave. That's bullshit. They don't vote based on skin color or gender. That is identity politics by definition and it won't work.

I actually wasn't quoting you with the identity politics thing, as I'm with you on this one : there was no blue wave. there was no enthusiasm for identity politics


Then, we agree.

I wonder what kind of spin they will invent to explain the results! :)

Russia?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:48 pm 


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Looks like it's been called, pending numerous lawsuits.

You guys really, really need to fix your voting system. Mixture of failure, different rules, fraud, incompetence etc. Even "software errors" I read last night?

I think you've lost an opportunity honestly, Trump wasn't that bad all things considered in my opinion - Biden with his questionable history and rapidly declining mind is not really an upgrade and may even prove to be equally embarassing. He'll fall in line with the globalist train though which is one of the main sources of decline in modern countries, the very worst unrestricted aspects of capitalism benefit from this, and the 'political establishment' will be able to get back to eating from the trough unaccountably. I realised that's where I am on the whole subject, the political/media/elite establishment needs to be hit harder than just 4 years - but unfortunately people just voted for it. It is what it is.

The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:53 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Bro, Trump's solution to the stock market's woes was literally just trillions of dollars in government handouts. That shit doesn't help the common man. It just means that those businesses are even more impossible to compete with and they have an even stronger bargaining position against workers and consumers.

You're absolutely right, but it's why I said Trump was indeed the president of the GAFAM and Wall Street, BUT not only, and I have tried to point out the other aspects.
Anyway, Biden is now officially the new president. Is he a new president elected for a full and clear complete political program, or was he elected to beat Trump ?
The first half of his term is going to be very interesting. Good luck to him, hard times are coming.


Last edited by cvaniafan on Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:56 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
As for the ''voted to own the lib'' argument, I don't really buy it


It was a joke.

Also, it's bizarre to me that people have been arguing all night about why so many folks voted against their own self-interest for Trump, but at no point did anyone mention the word "Evangelicals."
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:00 pm 


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system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Know what scares the hell out of me? Conservatives that will murder for religion (or use it as an excuse) scares me. That happens often.

About that "list": No worries.
You can't make a list of half the nation and throw half the nation out. That won't work. Sounds like angry ranting from people that haven't accepted reality. Lots of center-right Dems are really struggling with the fact that all those brown people and women have minds of their own.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:03 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
As for the ''voted to own the lib'' argument, I don't really buy it


It was a joke.

Also, it's bizarre to me that people have been arguing all night about why so many folks voted against their own self-interest for Trump, but at no point did anyone mention the word "Evangelicals."


I mentioned catholics in one demographic and everyone was certain it wouldn't matter. Obviously, those people are exactly what I said they are.

It matters. But, there's more going on here than just religion. Lots of Trump voters voted Obama.
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Last edited by orange808 on Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:08 pm 


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system11 wrote:
I think you've lost an opportunity honestly, Trump wasn't that bad all things considered in my opinion - Biden with his questionable history and rapidly declining mind is not really an upgrade and may even prove to be equally embarassing. He'll fall in line with the globalist train though which is one of the main sources of decline in modern countries, the very worst unrestricted aspects of capitalism benefit from this, and the 'political establishment' will be able to get back to eating from the trough unaccountably. I realised that's where I am on the whole subject, the political/media/elite establishment needs to be hit harder than just 4 years - but unfortunately people just voted for it. It is what it is.

Exactly what I think...


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:16 pm 



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So is the United States of America gonna change the name to the United socialist states of America??


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:17 pm 


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Centrists also aren't respecting race and gender. All people (That's right! Even women!) make individual decisions of their own.

Speaking of that, are we going to ever change our work visas into something less sexist? Complacent consent is consent. Importing men that can't participate in any kind of bargaining takes jobs (and money) away from women that already live in country.

It's sexist.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:23 pm 


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Ddshot wrote:
So is the United States of America gonna change the name to the United socialist states of America??


Did you not see all the doomer lefties on this very thread talking about Joe Biden's love-affair with John Kasich?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:42 pm 


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I wish Biden was as left as the GOP likes to portray him
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:43 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Ddshot wrote:
So is the United States of America gonna change the name to the United socialist states of America??


Did you not see all the doomer lefties on this very thread talking about Joe Biden's love-affair with John Kasich?


Given the nonsensical "socialist" remark and the "Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk" signature, I am going with: "no".

That signature. lmao
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:46 pm 


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system11 wrote:
Looks like it's been called, pending numerous lawsuits.

You guys really, really need to fix your voting system. Mixture of failure, different rules, fraud, incompetence etc. Even "software errors" I read last night?

I think you've lost an opportunity honestly, Trump wasn't that bad all things considered in my opinion - Biden with his questionable history and rapidly declining mind is not really an upgrade and may even prove to be equally embarassing. He'll fall in line with the globalist train though which is one of the main sources of decline in modern countries, the very worst unrestricted aspects of capitalism benefit from this, and the 'political establishment' will be able to get back to eating from the trough unaccountably. I realised that's where I am on the whole subject, the political/media/elite establishment needs to be hit harder than just 4 years - but unfortunately people just voted for it. It is what it is.

The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.

There's a reasonable argument to be made that Biden and/or Harris are worse than Trump. No way in hell has this been any sort of a missed opportunity, at least not since Sanders got screwed. It's the second in command behind the Afghanistan invasion vs the man behind the Soleimani assassination, which would have started a war far worse than Iraq or Afghanistan if not for the fact that the religious fanatics who run Iran are somehow vastly more far-sighted and clear-headed than America's capitalist overlords. It's shit, pure shit either way.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:48 pm 


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system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Right after we're done making you drink Starbucks, NO MATTER HOW IT TASTES!

MWAHAHAHAHAA!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:50 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
It's the second in command behind the Afghanistan invasion


That was Dick Cheney.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:56 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
I wish Biden was as left as the GOP likes to portray him


Yes that's laughable. Anyone can see he's a remnant of traditional democrats from the 80s/90s. Same people who made sure Bernie didn't win.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:10 pm 


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cvaniafan wrote:
Vanguard wrote:
Bro, Trump's solution to the stock market's woes was literally just trillions of dollars in government handouts. That shit doesn't help the common man. It just means that those businesses are even more impossible to compete with and they have an even stronger bargaining position against workers and consumers.

You're absolutely right, but it's why I said Trump was indeed the president of the GAFAM and Wall Street, BUT not only, and I have tried to point out the other aspects.
Anyway, Biden is now officially the new president. Is he a new president elected for a full and clear complete political program, or was he elected to beat Trump ?
The first half of his term is going to be very interesting. Good luck to him, hard times are coming.


The last 8-months, our market has been driven by option(s) speculators who spell "stock", "st0nk"; a tweet from Elon Musk was sending the entire EV market plummeting or skyrocketing 10-20%.
Whatever Trumps affiliation with GAFAM, it's irrelevant and a terrible metric, e.g. Apples 2 Trillion dollar market cap, their $450 billion buyback, or their now heavily diluted EPS.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:22 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
That was Dick Cheney.

Whoops, you're right. Biden was merely second in command behind massively expanding it. I think we can all agree, at least, that Bush/Cheney was the worst of the last three presidencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:32 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:
That was Dick Cheney.

Whoops, you're right. Biden was merely second in command behind massively expanding it. I think we can all agree, at least, that Bush/Cheney was the worst of the last three presidencies.


Oh without a doubt, but I think that's because of circumstances. Trump ripped up the Iran nuclear deal unilaterally, slapped sanctions on them with no excuse, then straight-up murked one of their most popular politicians. The only reason we're not at war with Iran right now is cooler heads prevailed in Tehran.

That's in addition to him vetoing Bernie's bipartisan bill to get us out of the Yemen war, and his stupider version of the Bay of Pigs in Venezuela.

Had there been a 9/11-level terror attack I have no doubt Trump would have done even worse damage.

His domestic agenda was basically identical.

Thankfully nobody gave him the excuse, so instead we get an ending that'll be something like this.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:35 pm 


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system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Is this a reference to AOC's psychobabble tweet earlier today?


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:54 pm 


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rapoon wrote:
system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Is this a reference to AOC's psychobabble tweet earlier today?


Yes, although it started before that - I can't remember the specifics but a truth and reconciliation group. The usual worst people in the world are essentially going around creating a list of people they can hate and harass for the next year+. Nothing new there I suppose. People are awful.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:12 pm 


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Quote:
But my fear is that with age, they will become establishment dems.


In leftist circles, there's already a trickle of disaffection with AoC. I suppose it comes from a number of things - she doesn't oppose Pelosi openly, isn't incredibly vocal on stuff like the Assange trial or war, etc. Maybe they're just used to being betrayed. (I still can't believe so many of them trusted Warren.)

Ilhan Omar was a favorite punching bag of Trump's, as she represents the death of the old establishment perhaps better than anyone. A young, muslim, New Deal woman - the perfect republican boogeyman. This might have been responsible for Trump's narrow loss in Minnesota - when asked about the possibility in an interview she answered "maybe he f'd around and found out."

That's a standard internet meme in leftist circles: "fuck around and find out", you don't pick that up without genuinely being part of the culture. As to whether they feel like selling out, well, their existing donors and supporters might be sensitive enough they have external incentives not to become vampire people. Lee Carter would literally explode into chunks of meat before becoming a shill.

More likely they might just disappear. There's been plenty of talk about trying to redistrict AoC out of congress. Should only be a year or two until they have new border lines drawn.

cvaniafan wrote:
Do not feel offended by what I wrote, there's nothing personal and I am not into propaganda.


Nah I'm not angry, just... really worn out treading over old ground. I probably used the same talking points to argue the democrats were a bit better than republicans when I was younger. I use the word "propaganda" neutrally in most contexts - everyone's always trying to sell someone something, including myself, it's dishonest to pretend we aren't. But when I use it regarding statistics, I do mean it's not an impartial number.

The unemployment rate as determined by their methodology is a survey that asks two basic questions: Do you have a job, and if not, are you looking for one. Only if "no" and "yes" are given in response, does someone get added to the unemployed pile. You should be able to infer the problems with this - people who give up looking for work and go home to live with their parents, or find using their time to dig through garbage cans and food shelters more productive, all fun things on the rise the past decade, make the unemployment number look better the more of them there are. And of course, much like polling, there is some bias in who will take the time to respond to them. It's a statistic that's, by design, incredibly difficult to go above ~10%. (One of the most cynical things I saw during the 2016 election was Trump calling this a phony baloney number and I nodded my head and said to myself "if he wins, he's going to use that number all the time to advertise how well he's doing, just like every other politician has done" and, surprise, he did.)


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:13 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Listen to you two go on and on about nothing. :) Arguing about the stock market when most Americans don't have $200 in the bank? And, you do it with a straight face. The economy isn't the stock market. Bryan tries to tell you, but you're never going to listen.
.


Look at you doing what you always do, misquoting people. You're basically a trump supporter.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:26 pm 


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Well, Trumptards, hope you felt avenged enough these four years for all the making you look like fools, beating you at the border, murdering, raping, and steel-selling other countries, including mine, were doing to you, according to Cheeto Powder Face. Because that's all you're going to get.

What are you going to do with all the billions that Trump has surely been making Mexico pay all this time, to finance his Big, Beautiful Wall (TM)? Perhaps help cover his campaign debts?

Here. Have my sympathies for the defeat of your Orange Messiah:

Image

Glad to see each of the seven votes I cast in seven different districts (using my Illegal Alien ID card, of course), and the multiple ballots I mailed, helped the dems steal this election. See you for your state-mandated raping while waiting in line for a loaf of bread, cabron tovarisch.

And may we never again end up with someone like him in the Oval Office, regardless of party affiliation.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:10 pm 


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Oh dear. Don't say stuff like that out loud. It's tempting fate.

If Trump wants to be the nominee again in four years, he will be. And unlike the decorous rank and file of the parties who'll step aside and give someone else a chance to fail once they go down in flames in a general presidential election.. this is a man with very little decorum.


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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:28 pm 


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system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Oh for fuck's sake, is this what you're talking about?

Archiving tweets in anticipation of future "This you?" memes?
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:21 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
system11 wrote:
The most worrying part though is aspects of the far left wanting to create lists of people who supported Trump, even being encouraged by an elected official. That should tell you a lot about what those people are like as humans. It should scare the ever living hell out of you.


Oh for fuck's sake, is this what you're talking about?

Archiving tweets in anticipation of future "This you?" memes?


That's part of it, here's another:

https://www.trumpaccountability.net/

another:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ ... story.html

AOC shouldn't be encouraging anything similar - gathering evidence of wrongthink. I wouldn't find it so sinister if it hadn't been made so crystal clear for the past few years how vicious and without limits some activists are.
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 Post subject: Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:02 am 


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system11 wrote:
That's part of it, here's another:

https://www.trumpaccountability.net/


Oh dear.

Dude, that's the kind of web page you could spin up in less than 5 minutes. And I do mean "page." No "about" with names of founders, no articles, not even links.

This is the shit that's keeping you awake at night?

system11 wrote:


So that's a tweet from Robert Reich and an offhand comment by Chris Hayes, both mentioning truth and reconciliation commissions on the illegal activities of the Trump administration over the past four years. Like the Benghazi hearings.

But this editorial takes those suggestions then extrapolates them into a crazed rant that starts at Orwell's 1984 (of course) and ends up in the French Terror? I think the guy who wrote this editorial is being a little unreasonable.

Think how much stress would be gone from your life would be if you applied a little more skepticism to these conspiracy theories. Especially that web page one!
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