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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Andrew Yang 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Kamala Harris 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren / Tulsi Gabbard 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Donald Trump 34%  34%  [ 18 ]
Mike Gravel 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 38%  38%  [ 20 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 53
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:53 am 


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Specineff wrote:
Regardless of how it happened, I get the feeling we won't be hearing the end of it, Loose Change-style.


Look, he managed to become the first person to commit suicide at that maximum security prison, okay? Simple as that. If you question this you're an anti-semite and your kids will be sent to re-education camps.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:47 am 


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Rob wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:
it made me think of "Dr. Seuss Goes to War," a book of his WWII political cartoons:

Advocates for non-interventionism have been vindicated by much that has happened since, but this is good at illustrating how little pro-war propaganda has changed. If you want to morally bully people into doing something destructive or contrary to their own interests, invoke the children (just not the soon to be firebombed children, or the ones of the vanquished that will be left behind to be terrorized by the victors) or just namecall. The self-mythologizing about WWII has not been a good thing for America.


Thanks for the insight, Candace Owens.

A video debunking the (literal) Nazi propaganda about the bombing of dresden which is still repeated by the right-wing to this day, which you'll run away from covering your ears and screaming, "Lalalalala! I'm not liiiiistening!

Image
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:07 am 


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You can't actually think that comic is making a valid point. Right?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:05 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
A video debunking

There are about 5 words out of this 11 minute video related to what I wrote, and those words acknowledged exactly what I wrote.

https://youtu.be/kS2_YFbzAVs?t=595

Quote:
comic

Quote:
“Kill every fascist,” the shooter declared in 2018 on twitter, echoing a rallying cry of antifa ideologues. Over the next year, his tweets became increasingly violent. “Nazis deserve death and nothing else,” he tweeted last October. Betts frequently flung the label “Nazi” at those with whom he disagreed online.

By December, he reached out on Twitter to the Socialist Rifle ­Association, an antifa gun group, to comment about bump stocks, and the SRA responded to him. (A bump stock is an attachment for semiautomatic rifles that allow them to fire much faster.)

In the months leading to his rampage, Betts expressed a longing for climactic confrontation. In ­response to an essay by Intercept writer Mehdi Hassan titled, “Yes, Let’s Defeat or Impeach Trump—but What If He Doesn’t Leave the White House?” the shooter wrote: “Arm, train, prepare.”

By June he tweeted: “I want socialism, and I’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round understanding.” Last week, he promoted posts that demonized Sens. Ted Cruz and Bill Cassidy’s resolution against antifa extremism.

You might not have heard about these details in your news sources, but an Antifa guy shot up a known conservative hangout immediately after the El Paso shooting. Dayton. I'm not mentioning this for any reason other than pointing out that the 'it's just hijinks' image people are trying to portray for Antifa is not accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:41 pm 


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I wish that were the only thing blatantly wrong with that comic. Let's ignore that police are notoriously lenient with Antifa, that it took years of street violence for even one agency to label them as a domestic terror group (most of the government still turns a blind eye), that Antifa has done zero to counteract mass shootings (they are responsible for some directly, even), and that the only notable instance of "milkshaking" someone was a government official, obviously because they wanted to dodge any serious charges.

That anyone can see how freely they roam and somehow think they're anti-establishment, or even somehow develop a victim complex for them, is fucking peak delusion. They are the shock troops of the ruling class and they will get away with most everything until a sizable counter movement takes hold. Trust me when I say that if you're a liberal or a leftist, you don't want that to happen.

"You can't spell Antifa without NAFTA" - some guy on Twitter


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:00 pm 


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I am all for a blanket ban on assault rifles that disarms antifa and the proud boys equally.

Limit it to food fights.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:44 pm 


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quash wrote:
I wish that were the only thing blatantly wrong with that comic. Let's ignore that police are notoriously lenient with Antifa, that it took years of street violence for even one agency to label them as a domestic terror group (most of the government still turns a blind eye), that Antifa has done zero to counteract mass shootings (they are responsible for some directly, even), and that the only notable instance of "milkshaking" someone was a government official, obviously because they wanted to dodge any serious charges.

That anyone can see how freely they roam and somehow think they're anti-establishment, or even somehow develop a victim complex for them, is fucking peak delusion. They are the shock troops of the ruling class and they will get away with most everything until a sizable counter movement takes hold. Trust me when I say that if you're a liberal or a leftist, you don't want that to happen.

"You can't spell Antifa without NAFTA" - some guy on Twitter

From personal experience with antifa LARPers myself, they are under the impression too that the police is being notoriously lenient with white nats and crypto-fascists by allowing them to spread their rhetoric in public and not doing enough (on purpose?) against racist hate crimes.

Basically I've come to see this line of dialogue to be as pointless and predictable as the losing side at the end of a football match always giving the ref shit. Everyone always thinks the police is against them.
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the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:34 pm 


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It's like clockwork, every time a far right mass shooter sends many to the morgue, the entire internet far right spams "antifa! antifa! antifa! antifa!" in every corner in attempt to distract with the noise.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:54 pm 


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Quote:
in attempt to distract

Or just commenting on the content of the comic posted, as the basis for the punchline was invalidated the very same day.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:32 pm 


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Just observing that as per usual with people like you, when a shooter motivated by your same ideas kills plenty of innocent people, you don't comment, you're silent.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:13 am 


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Durandal wrote:
quash wrote:
I wish that were the only thing blatantly wrong with that comic. Let's ignore that police are notoriously lenient with Antifa, that it took years of street violence for even one agency to label them as a domestic terror group (most of the government still turns a blind eye), that Antifa has done zero to counteract mass shootings (they are responsible for some directly, even), and that the only notable instance of "milkshaking" someone was a government official, obviously because they wanted to dodge any serious charges.

That anyone can see how freely they roam and somehow think they're anti-establishment, or even somehow develop a victim complex for them, is fucking peak delusion. They are the shock troops of the ruling class and they will get away with most everything until a sizable counter movement takes hold. Trust me when I say that if you're a liberal or a leftist, you don't want that to happen.

"You can't spell Antifa without NAFTA" - some guy on Twitter

From personal experience with antifa LARPers myself, they are under the impression too that the police is being notoriously lenient with white nats and crypto-fascists by allowing them to spread their rhetoric in public and not doing enough (on purpose?) against racist hate crimes.

Basically I've come to see this line of dialogue to be as pointless and predictable as the losing side at the end of a football match always giving the ref shit. Everyone always thinks the police is against them.
I'm gonna let you in on a little secret: law enforcement agencies have been infiltrating right wing organizations for decades. Antifa? Not so much, and they've received funding from many of the usual NGO suspects. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.


Mischief Maker wrote:
I am all for a blanket ban on assault rifles that disarms antifa and the proud boys equally.

Limit it to food fights.


"Assault rifle/weapon" is a stupid term that means nothing, up there with "weapons of war" and basically any way of beating around the bush of banning the AR-15.

Hilarious how people think banning the AR-15 would solve anything. But then, anti-gunners are notoriously ignorant of the very thing you'd think they'd have at least some idea about.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:53 am 


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Micro-apartments (150 sq ft for only $1400/month!), shipping containers, "innovative approaches to communal housing". What will it take to get more people to question the wisdom of infinite immigration?

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:46 pm 


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Yeah, because all those American companies shipping jobs outside the USA, all those CEOs raiding pension funds and lobbying to make sure minimum wages like Texas' (8 fucking ridiculous bucks an hour, while the cost of life is 30% higher than in Arizona) never go up, and their crazy and unregulated mass hiring of H1B1 visa recipients over American workers, plus all the housing bubble burst and all the crap that banks pulled out when it came to housing lending in the past decade, have nothing to do with it, no sir. Nope, no. Nuh-huh.

It's all because of those damned Juan, Pedro, Carlos and Manuel and their celery picking or hauling bricks in 100+ degree weather.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:48 pm 


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Specineff wrote:
Yeah, because all those American companies shipping jobs outside the USA, all those CEOs raiding pension funds and lobbying to make sure minimum wages like Texas' (8 fucking ridiculous bucks an hour, while the cost of life is 30% higher than in Arizona) never go up, and their crazy and unregulated mass hiring of H1B1 visa recipients over American workers, plus all the housing bubble burst and all the crap that banks pulled out when it came to housing lending in the past decade, have nothing to do with it, no sir. Nope, no. Nuh-huh.

It's all because of those damned Juan, Pedro, Carlos and Manuel and their celery picking or hauling bricks in 100+ degree weather.


applause dot gif


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:06 am 


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Specineff wrote:
Yeah, because [word salad]

No.

The downsizing of living spaces available is a consequence of fitting millions more people into spaces millions fewer used to inhabit. There are limits to how many people can enjoy a middle class lifestyle in America, with unique limits in the semi-arid and desert southwest. Yang is addressing a basic, unpleasant reality - the humbling of the "American dream" that is inevitable with never ending immigration. Only, he doesn't mention immigration, because you can't do this and be counted as a Democrat, so his approach is to sell this pitiful future as "downright appealing".


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:12 am 


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Reading through the past couple of pages I have a number of things to contribute.

1) Yes concentration camps is a deliberate loaded term being used to solicit an emotional reaction. The vast majority of people associate that term directly with death camps, regardless of what the technical definition is, other common use camp descriptions are "prison camp", "relief camp" and "refugee camp". Cortez knows it, the media know it, you all know it so stop pretending for a second that it was used accurately in good faith.

2) Open borders will harm income - mostly affecting lower paid workers and especially legal immigrants. It's quite surprising that this fairly logical supply/demand issue seems so unclear. Here's an independant fact checker: https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration/ Of course that doesn't even start to address the problem of housing etc. Where I live, people on average salaries can't rent a small house or in some cases a flat on their own despite vast new housing estates and new blocks of flats being built in every direction.

3) Offering free contraception, offering legal abortion & increasing education on family planning (all of which I'm fully in favour of) won't stop population increases preventing you from reducing carbon emmissions if the tiny fall gets offset by high immigration from areas which don't themselves slow in growth. Honestly this is a planet-wide problem and I don't think anyone will resolve it, it's very depressing as someone who donates to wildlife charities. Every month the newsletters are similar - pressures from habitat loss and "friction" with expanding land use by humans. Human population has doubled just since I was born - it's my first question now to people who claim to be environmentalists.

4) If someone forced me to place a bet on the 2020 US elections, I'd probably put my money on Trump, not because he is especially good (although you'd have to be a zealot to not be able to highlight a single good thing he's done), but because the democrats have spent entirely too long bitching and whining about Russia and impeachment. They're STILL DOING IT too, it makes them look crazy. Crazier than Mike Pence who I once saw described as "that elf-looking motherfucker".

5) Epstein is one of the most bizarre stories of the year. It was probably suicide. Probably. However I've never seen anything like it in terms of dropping conspiracy bait to the point where the probable truth becomes the least believable option. It's a shame so many people will probably get away with their crimes as a result.

6) I banned Rob for 2 weeks about a month ago, it's going to happen for longer if you don't dial it down a notch talking to other users.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:11 am 


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Rob wrote:
Only, he doesn't mention immigration.


Then don't collate it with your rhetoric. It's not a single-issue problem, whether you want to think otherwise or not.

system11 wrote:
Open borders will harm income - mostly affecting lower paid workers and especially legal immigrants. It's quite surprising that this fairly logical supply/demand issue seems so unclear. Here's an independant fact checker: https://fullfact.org/immigration/immigration-and-jobs-labour-market-effects-immigration/ Of course that doesn't even start to address the problem of housing etc. Where I live, people on average salaries can't rent a small house or in some cases a flat on their own despite vast new housing estates and new blocks of flats being built in every direction.


For the record, I've yet to see or hear any indication of who has actually supported, said, or even hinted at such a thing, outside the accusations launched by Trump and Co.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:41 am 


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Specineff wrote:
It's not a single-issue problem,

It is a very important issue for housing, as it is a very important issue for many other things. :) If you add a million people but have the same amount of land, the options are not many. :( More affordable: smaller, vertical, "communal" developments. Not the same relatively spacious thing but cheaper. :cry:

Here's an informative article. :D

Cities Start to Question an American Ideal: A House With a Yard on Every Lot


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:47 am 


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The US should buy Mexico and make Greenland pay for it.

@Sneff: you forgot Jesus. If the US can buy labour and food at discounted prices it's a lot thanks to Jesus. Republicans thank Jesus everyday.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:10 pm 


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Been awhile since anyone attempted to break in midway here, not that I can blame them:

system11 wrote:
Yes concentration camps is a deliberate loaded term being used to solicit an emotional reaction.

As I've said before, feel free to use whatever term you'd use for the camps in which Japanese-Americans were interred during WW2, as that's probably about the closest reference we have. That said, I think it's safe to say that most people, whatever their political leanings, are well aware that the camps by the border are not Nazi-style death camps, though people have of course died, and otherwise greatly suffered, due to how awful the conditions there are, and I'd like to hear anyone argue that this isn't a very deliberate state of affairs.

Quote:
Open borders will harm income - mostly affecting lower paid workers and especially legal immigrants.

Well, yeah, a huge pool of abusable, exploitable labor gives employers the ability to tell all workers "if you're not willing to put up with the shit the illegals put up with we'll just fire and replace you", though as Spec says you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone truly in favor of open borders (and before anyone says "that's effectively what they want", feel free to apply that standard, as long as you're willing to equivocate that the contemporary right is effectively white supremacist). That being said, go back a little ways in this thread and you'll see me propose to Rob that to truly stem the tide of illegal immigration you'd have to, among other things, crack down much harder on the employers who knowingly hire illegal workers (a club which, of course, includes Trump himself), and his response was "that won't work, most of them aren't here to work, they're here to destroy white culture and the Zionists are behind it all", so feel free to pinpoint the spot where there's reasonable compromise to be had.

Quote:
Where I live, people on average salaries can't rent a small house or in some cases a flat on their own despite vast new housing estates and new blocks of flats being built in every direction.

Never knew you lived in New Jersey. :lol: You'll also have to enlighten me on the state of income inequality in the UK; last I checked here in the US it's something like the top 1% own more than the bottom 90% combined (and rising), which of course has nothing to do with the "scarcity of resources" the nativists like to go on about.

Quote:
Offering free contraception, offering legal abortion & increasing education on family planning (all of which I'm fully in favour of) won't stop population increases preventing you from reducing carbon emmissions if the tiny fall gets offset by high immigration from areas which don't themselves slow in growth.

The logical next step, which I've also advocated on here, would be to increase foreign aid (which, if memory serves, is currently around 1 percent of the US's budget) aimed at enriching, educating, and empowering said poor foreigners, especially women, to the point where they don't need to constantly reproduce to keep their subsistence farms going, can say no to their husbands (and others) without being beaten or worse, and have access to birth control if all else fails. The Trump administration, of course, has all but abandoned human rights as a factor in its foreign policy, because that stuff's for sissies (and we've got weapons to sell), and also cut foreign aid, because, as the Robs of the world would put it, it's all just wasted on those people. And hopefully I don't even need to bring up climate change and other related environmental concerns.

Yes, yes, we and other wealthy nations can't be expected to fix everything etc. etc., but we constantly hear from the anti-immigration crowd that this is The Defining Issue of Our Time, that Civilization Hangs in the Balance, that we need Bold, Immediate Solutions: build a wall, send troops to the border, eliminate birthright citizenship from the Constitution, do whatever it takes to bring immigration down. Somehow, however, when anyone proposes measures that don't involve treating nonwhites like shit, even if they strike much more directly at the most critical drivers of immigration than anything the administration is doing or plans to do (refer back to my previous writeup concerning illegal hirers), all of a sudden they're never interested. And somehow the onus always remains on everyone except those currently in power to sit down and come up with something else, while the latter just keep swinging their yeeaahhh fuck yooouuu yeeaahhh wrecking ball with utter impunity, results be damned.

Quote:
the democrats have spent entirely too long bitching and whining about Russia and impeachment. They're STILL DOING IT too, it makes them look crazy.

I'm really not sure what anyone expects the left (or whatever term you'd use) to do; if we sit by quietly and let the right run rampant we're "weak and ineffective", and if we make a fuss we're "freaking out" and guilty of "Trump derangement syndrome" (we should instead devote our energies to making sure Obama doesn't take our guns and start a race war, I suppose). Even if you don't want to get into the "coarsening the discourse" zone or whatnot, just off the top of my head we've had one Supreme Court seat outright stolen and another forced in, every level of government staffed by industry shills and personal cronies openly rife with conflicts of interest, transparency and public input drastically reduced, multiple attempts to take health coverage away from millions of people, countless pieces of legislation stonewalled by the proudly self-styled "grim reapers" across the isle for no other stated reason than "liberals proposed it", blatant attempts to obstruct justice during the Mueller investigation, and a trillion or two added to the deficit in order to enrich the already-wealthy (with some totally-coincidental special gifts for real estate developers sprinkled on top). Alternative policies have been endlessly proposed, but nobody seems to much notice or care about any except the most exploitably extreme outliers in the face of the latest Twitter blowup. So what would you have either the leadership or the rank and file do, exactly?

Quote:
It was probably suicide. Probably.

The best part about the conspiracy theorists is that, of all the rich, powerful Epstein associates of questionable moral character who might have the motive and means to silence him in hopes of limiting damaging revelations resulting from the ongoing investigation, the one name they've all invariably crossed off their lists is the one who's currently the chief executive of the United States. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:49 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Well, yeah, a huge pool of abusable, exploitable labor gives employers the ability to tell all workers "if you're not willing to put up with the shit the illegals put up with we'll just fire and replace you",

Image

I recommend this book. :D

Illegal immigration is bad for the native worker, but also bad is a limitless supply of legal labor. Open borders would be a limitless supply of legal labor.

Quote:
crack down much harder on the employers who knowingly hire illegal workers

Find an immigration restrictionist who doesn't agree with penalizing employers with the existing or tougher laws. I've never seen one. The problem is obviously that the vast majority of employers are not required to follow the rules, as the vast majority of the employed are not - an all-around (and I would argue deliberate) lack of enforcement.

Quote:
his response was "that won't work, most of them aren't here to work,

No shame.

I said that focusing exclusively on employers "wouldn't even cover those who are not coming here to work". There are incentives to come here other than work, like producing a U.S. citizen. Mentioning the existence of this subset of the illegal population, and the ineffectiveness of this one measure to deter them, becomes "most of them aren't here to work".

Quote:
they're here to destroy white culture and the Zionists are behind it all"

Can I get the admin to weigh in on this one: does inventing spurious quotes pass forum etiquette?

Quote:
and before anyone says "that's effectively what they want", feel free to apply that standard, as long as you're willing to equivocate that the contemporary right is effectively white supremacist

No, I don't think this unsupportable claim is just like the supportable claim.

Yale, MIT study: 22 million, not 11 million, undocumented immigrants in US

In a country where the borders are porous enough to let Mexico City slip through, the Democrat call is for less enforcement.

Quote:
would be to increase foreign aid

More foreign aid?

Image

Quote:
and also cut foreign aid, because, as the Robs of the world would put it, it's all just wasted on those people.

Once again, can I get a weigh in from the admin on these extremely rude and clownish fabrications?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:49 pm 


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The exploitation of the poor is a time honored tradition regardless of the system, who is in power etc...


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:34 pm 


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Look BulletMagnet, I enjoyed 2004 as well, but you have to move on (no pun intended) eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:06 am 


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At this point in time I'm infinitely more interested in system11's responses to my post, as methinks by this point I have a pretty clear picture of your "stance" on these issues, but...

Rob wrote:
Find an immigration restrictionist who doesn't agree with penalizing employers with the existing or tougher laws.

Donald Trump. And pretty much anyone from Pence on down who supports his "policy" in this area, unless I've missed something big...or is this the same "support" as everyone says they have for, say, minimal gun control laws but never actually makes any effort to advance?

Quote:
I said that focusing exclusively on employers "wouldn't even cover those who are not coming here to work".

First things first: neither I nor anyone else ever suggested exclusively focusing on employers, no matter how many times you weasel the word into your posts to pretend it happened.

Second: As mightily as you work to deny it, this is a question of priorities. Both you and I have acknowledged that immigration is a problem: you alone are the one who hypes it up as the problem. If you actually believed that, one would think that you would be far more eager than me to redirect ever more resources to strike directly at the root causes and driving forces that, according to all the data we have, bring people here, namely 1) Increasingly unlivable conditions in their own countries, and 2) Means to remain once they get here, i.e. jobs, even if they're undocumented.

A wall to (partially) deter those who "directly" enter illegally (visa overstayers, asylum-seekers et al are a whole different ball of wax) is way, WAY down the list in terms of raw effectiveness, and scattershot raids are even further down than that, but those are the sacred cows that "nativists" like you absolutely refuse to place behind anything and everything else, without exception, and that's because you're not interested in progress on this "all-important" issue, you only care about how much personal catharsis it can give you. You demand simplistic morality plays, starring you as the virtuous victims with a fat dollop of retribution to the irredeemable evildoers capping them off, and if that's not the undisputed highlight of the package you're simply not buying, end of story.

Third: Even assuming, against all available evidence, that you are genuinely determined to focus anti-immigration efforts on the areas that would have the greatest impact, when you complain that cracking down on illegal hiring would be ineffective because it "wouldn't even cover those not coming here to work", then by definition you must believe that a massive amount - perhaps even, b'gosh, a majority - of illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work. :lol:

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Can I get the admin to weigh in on this one: does inventing spurious quotes pass forum etiquette?

From page 184:
Quote:
When a government decides to ethnically remodel their nation for some globalist scheme, yes, they have a right to feel victimized.


From page 248:
Quote:
Plot ("reconquista") or no, the outcome is effectively the same - the southwest transforming into a demographic extension of Latin America and, worse still, the problems not being contained in that region. [...] But as for the seriousness of a plot or ideology, blut und boden/reconquista rhetoric is seeping into mainstream American politics.


From page 238:
Quote:
I'm open to alternative forms of government when "democracy" means swamping the existing voters with a new set of voters.


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Once more, the facts - neoconservatism was and is predominantly a Jewish movement. Neocons are really upset about a potential end to these forever wars (that they helped get America into) with Israel's enemies. This is not complex stuff. They are also some of the loudest critics of America protecting its own border. These people are not and never were conservatives or (American) nationalists.


As with most of your ilk, Rob, this nonsense always, always, always makes an appearance in some form or another - without it, laughable "stances" like yours simply wouldn't exist - and your only hope is that most folks are either too forgetful or too damn tired of your shit to bother swimming through the endless noise and dredging it back up.

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the Democrat call is for less enforcement.

The call (at least from me, as an individual) is for effective enforcement, as opposed to "sends a naughty little thrill up the leg of the base" enforcement.

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More foreign aid?

Yup - scary-looking chart aside, foreign aid does indeed seem to be hovering right around 1 percent of the US budget. Seems like a paltry amount to devote to The Issue of Our Time, especially when it's not only more effective (see Colombia versus El Salvador and Honduras) but cheaper (though nowhere near as yeeeahhh fuck yooouuu yeeaahhh) than deploying troops instead.

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Once again, can I get a weigh in from the admin on these extremely rude and clownish fabrications?

I really, really hope I don't need to state a case to anyone with a pulse on here as to Rob's stance on the...viability of "nonwhite" cultures. :lol: If you must pry, feel free to seek out his assertions that civilization essentially didn't exist on the American continent until Europeans brought it, that the territory the US won in the Mexican-American war would still be a wasteland if the Mexicans still had it, that you can't expect a Gambian immigrant to contribute what a German one would, and that Indian migrants are all fleeing the mess that Indians have made of India, among countless other hits.

And no, none of those are word-for-word quotes - because obviously I'm deviously excluding a great deal of highly subtle context here - and I fully expect him to vigorously complain about this incorrigible shamelessness. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:28 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
At this point in time I'm infinitely more interested in system11's responses to my post,

Then how about not involving me in your tedious monologues?

Quote:
First things first: neither I nor anyone else ever suggested exclusively focusing on employers, no matter how many times you weasel the word into your posts to pretend it happened.

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I can't help but chuckle that conservatives (well, minus farm lobbies and libertarians who don't want their supply of wage slaves cut off), who constantly beat the drum about "slippery slopes" when it comes to government databases and the like, are the ones who have absolutely no problems with a program like this, and it's the liberals who cite "accuracy and timeliness issues" as reasons to put the program on hold...but y'know what? Ignore all that. Let's just assume that E-Verify is the way to go on matters like this and leave it off to the side. More relevant question: if "great" or "real" Americans, or whatever you care to call them, really are as patriotic and God-fearing as you and others make them out to be, and are merely victims of those conniving immigrants and their enablers, why would we even need a program like this? Why should the government even need to get involved in this, when theoretically hirers should be taking care of it themselves? Who is truly responsible for "keeping this gravy train going"?

This is the kind of circuitous fluff we get from you when something simple and effective like E-verify is brought up. Everything but employer sanctions is talked down or around, but suddenly you have very serious and multi-faceted visions for immigration enforcement.

Quote:
scattershot raids are even further down than that, but those are the sacred cows that "nativists" like you absolutely refuse to place behind anything and everything else, without exception,

Please tell me what I think about things that I've never discussed.

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you only care about how much personal catharsis it can give you.

Please tell me what I actually care about.

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You demand simplistic morality plays, starring you as the virtuous victims with a fat dollop of retribution to the irredeemable evildoers capping them off,

t. Liberal. :shock:

Quote:
when you complain that cracking down on illegal hiring would be ineffective because it "wouldn't even cover those not coming here to work", then by definition you must believe that a massive amount - perhaps even, b'gosh, a majority - of illegal immigrants aren't coming here to work.

I didn't say it would be ineffective in general, I said it would be ineffective for a specific subset of the population: those here for some reason other than work. Again, find an immigration restrictionist who is opposed to "cracking down on illegal hiring". The concept is absurd, but this doesn't seem to occur to you.

bulletmagnet wrote:
Rob wrote:
They are also some of the loudest critics of America protecting its own border.

As with most of your ilk, Rob, this nonsense always, always, always makes an appearance in some form or another

Image

An example of the "nonsense" I was talking about.

"Some of the loudest critics" (critics, some of) becomes "Zionists are behind it all". Do you understand that these are not remotely the same claims?

If I thought that "Zionists were behind it all" (endless illegal immigration), I would say exactly that and unashamedly. What you do is take a fragment here and a fragment there, scramble things together, add personal flourishes and pass if it off as something I've written (or think and have not yet written). I've asked you to stop doing that. A non-asshole would comply with this simple request.

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I really, really hope I don't need to state a case to anyone with a pulse on here as to Rob's stance on the...viability of "nonwhite" cultures. :lol:

You are the least self-aware person on this board and your style of communication is despicable.

Reminder of your last post in this thread: you think we need to scatter additional billions around the globe to get foreign men to stop beating and raping their women. We need to intrude and restructure their ways of life, their nations, from the ground up - in order, I suppose, so that we have permission to have our own nation. There is no contempt for other cultures required in not wanting to spend endless amounts of money to spread "liberal democracy", foul consumerism and whatever else, that America itself is sick from, around the world.

Quote:
feel free to seek out his assertions that civilization essentially didn't exist on the American continent until Europeans brought it,

You just can't help yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:04 pm 


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So far in the monogrammed plastic cup race up there in the Hamptons, we have Pete at #1. Trump at #2. Harris at #3. And Warren at #4.

Warren was only added to the shop recently so it's not a fair gauge so far, however. And her cups sold out on the first day. She'll overtake the others eventually, as she's a candidate all Hillfolk love and crave.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:11 pm 


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Don't know why you're wasting keystrokes, Rob. You're dealing with a liar by omission with a Rock Against Bush view of the world who pretended to not understand an SF-86 and unironically thinks Hillary did nothing wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:13 pm 


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quash wrote:
Rock Against Bush view of the world

Speaking of being stuck in 2004... My God, people remember these things? My dad gave one to my older brother as a xmas gift, in the category of "boomer doesn't know what to get his child for a gift." Heaven forbid he ever just get us the GC games we wanted, like Metroid or Fire Emblem... :P
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:05 pm 


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.


Last edited by Snake on Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:21 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Then how about not involving me in your tedious monologues?

..you do know I was replying to system11, not you, right? Until you decided to butt in, demanding the admins defend your good name from the wild misrepresentations of your views I've been espousing? :lol: And as the cherry on top go on to label me "the least-self aware person on the forum." :lol: Troll harder.

Quote:
This is the kind of circuitous fluff we get from you when something simple and effective like E-verify is brought up.

If anyone wants to torture themselves the way I do, head way on back to page 63, as this exchange is actually from one of my multiple trips 'round the mulberry bush with quash, who, when I put forth the same suggestion I do here (that if you're actually serious about curbing illegal immigration you need to crack down on illegal hiring, on the hirer's end), lists three "liberal" states which don't use E-Verify as "proof" that it's liberals, not carnivore capitalists, who really want to keep the caravans coming.

And somehow the reply I gave him is not only "circuitous fluff", but is supposed to allow Rob to claim that I steadfastly put employer crackdowns above every other anti-immigration tactic to the point of exclusivity. :roll:

Quote:
I didn't say it would be ineffective in general, I said it would be ineffective for a specific subset of the population: those here for some reason other than work.

For fuck's sake, Rob - every time someone points out how ineffective The Wall would be in comparison to other efforts to bring down illegal immigration numbers, your reply is "it'd still be some help, why are you opposed to something that would help?" Well, here we are, discussing a non-yeeaahhh fuck yooouu yeeaahhh approach that, like every other proposal under the sun, would not completely solve the problem all by itself (albeit still far more effective than the wall), and you've taken literally the exact opposite stance.

So Rob, if you're tired of me "telling you what you actually care about", go ahead and make sense of this in your own words, and tell us just what you do care about. Though if you ask me, back on page 168...
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That's how it works, and I'm thankful Europeans weren't sniveling cowards at some point in time. We need to get some of that back. Being a whiteness-deconstructing doormat is a good way to let others advance at our expense, and I don't believe descendants of the people who made/let it happen will be thankful.

...you already did.

Quote:
Again, find an immigration restrictionist who is opposed to "cracking down on illegal hiring".

Literally the first thing I answered. :lol: Feel free to try and tell me I was being "flippant" when I was being very literal in my response, I'd love to see you argue otherwise.

Quote:
"Some of the loudest critics" (critics, some of) becomes "Zionists are behind it all". Do you understand that these are not remotely the same claims?

It's rather telling that this is the only portion you bother to dispute, but sure, if you want to be pedantic, feel free to revise the statement to "Zionists and other shady groups" or whatever brings it up to your suddenly-sphincter-clenching proofreading standards. Bottom line, you still (say you) believe that Jews are actively working to replace white Americans with Latinos, for...reasons, come to think of it, which nobody has ever bothered to explain to me.

Quote:
A non-asshole would comply with this simple request.

Y'know, while we're on the subject, if you head back to the afore-referenced page 184, you link to a UN document on "replacement migration" that you said proved that...globalists were determined to - guess what! - replace whites with other races. I did what you hoped nobody would do and actually took a look at the thing, and on that same page posted a reply which refuted your claim decisively enough that not only did you immediately drop it (without a word of acknowledgement, naturally), but quash, Zen and the other "white genocide" soothsayers didn't attempt to defend you either.

Literally a week ago you linked to another one. :roll:

Quote:
We need to intrude and restructure their ways of life, their nations, from the ground up - in order, I suppose, so that we have permission to have our own nation.

Well well, now who's reading minds and "adding personal flourishes"? Try again, Rob - in case you didn't figure it out (of course you fucking did, you're not a lobotomy patient :lol:) any aid with any hope of having lasting effects would have to be directed at homegrown efforts already underway (which, even when foreigners don't use us as "classrooms for civilization", do indeed exist), so you can feel free to put the "nation-building" canard back in its box until another opportune time arises.

I also can't help but marvel that, for all the crowing you do about how innately and even genetically superior your culture is to all others, somehow you also presume that if it ever attempts to give anyone else a hand (or hell, just undo some of the damage we've inflicted once it starts biting us in the ass) it will only succeed in spreading its worst parts around (including, of course, the much-ballyhooed Global Fund to Further Foul Consumerism :lol:). Good to know you care enough to protect everyone else from us, at least up until we stop being "sniveling cowards" and take what's ours. :roll:

Quote:
You just can't help yourself.

From page 49 of the "another shooting" thread:
Rob wrote:
The U.S. is a conception of Europeans and their descendants. As this country was founded by us, we are natives to it. People are not tripping over themselves to get to what the tribes built.

Yep, I'm just outta control over here. :lol:
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