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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Andrew Yang 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Kamala Harris 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren / Tulsi Gabbard 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Donald Trump 33%  33%  [ 16 ]
Mike Gravel 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 38%  38%  [ 18 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 48
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:33 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Of course it isn't, because if more people had an accurate sense of the scope of the problem,

...

I would love for everyone to have "an accurate sense of the scope of the problem" - what's available is right up there. My point is that, whatever the exact figure, no number (given the available data) would fall below the threshold of massive problem. It's kind of like you fixating on border apprehensions not being at an all-time peak, while still being in the hundreds of thousands.

Quote:
most of them immensely more consequential than this giddy little obsession of yours;

"Giddy"? There is something very wrong with you.

Nothing is more consequential for a country (or state or city) than the demographic composition of it (example below). Everything relates to demographics and crime is one little aspect.

Quote:
Off to the side, as far as your "native-on-native crime" meme goes,...
dismissing the whole lot of them out of hand - and most everyone else, while you're at it - as subhuman.

"Meme". The comparatively high rate of rape in Alaska is because of the Native population. This is not me, in any way, referring to anyone as "subhuman". Do you ever feel ashamed about putting words in people's mouths? You can't seem to keep yourself from doing that or inventing cartoonish arguments to smear people with.

Quote:
maybe this has something do with it,

Yeah, this is recently elected Gov. Mike Dunleavy's fault or my fault, or anyone but the people living in these villages. Shitlibs, I swear. :lol: Gotta love you 2 minute experts on Alaska and Alaskan politics. It's very telling about the rest of your opinions.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:56 am 


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Rob wrote:
Koa Zo wrote:
Mockery of people positing hypothetical alternate realities.

Yes, the wild, alternate reality where the government does its job of preventing 80 year old women from being suffocated by people who don't belong here.

I was thinking more along the lines of the alternate reality where guns are banned in the US, but mass murders still happen because the murderers are going to do it one way or another.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 2:47 pm 


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Joe Biden's greatest hits.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:01 pm 


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Quote:
A racially-charged clip of Biden from 2007 discussing condom use in the black community and AIDS testing has become the latest un-Woke clip of the former VP to come under scrutiny.

On a debate stage alongside Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, Biden bragged about spending his entire summer trying to convince black men to wear condoms, scolded "the community" for being "in denial" about AIDS, and praised Obama for getting an AIDS test.

"Un-Woke", but was he wrong?

Image

Quote:
“Downtown Atlanta is as bad as Zimbabwe or Harare or Durban,” Dr. Carlos del Rio, co-director of Emory University’s Center for AIDS Research told WSB-TV reporters.

Among those most impacted by the epidemic are African American men and women, with African American teens and young people ranking high among those with the greatest risk.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 4:51 pm 


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I told myself I'd take a break from this thread but this gem was just published

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i ... cna1008576

Truly puzzling, why this may be happening. Experts have no idea. Does anyone here have a clue, maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:10 pm 


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quash wrote:
I told myself I'd take a break from this thread but this gem was just published

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i ... cna1008576

Truly puzzling, why this may be happening. Experts have no idea. Does anyone here have a clue, maybe?


The Betsy DeVos-ification of our education system?

Cutting funding to public schools, re-diverting the funds to for-profit private charters, curriculum shifts away from logic, critical thinking, and the humanities and toward skills-training?

Nah, that couldn't be it. It's gotta be soy!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:51 pm 


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Quote:
Cutting funding to public schools,

I wouldn`t expect throwing more money at education to help that system any more than throwing more money at healthcare is helping healthcare.

Both systems have similar problems. There is way too much money, attention, authority, and influence allotted to people other than the actual providers and recipients of the relevant service: administrators, bureaucrats, lawyers, and other hangers-on. Instead of students/teachers or patients/doctors.

In both systems, people are being really dumb about how they spend their money, and they are being encouraged to act this way. They take on huge debts, rack up huge bills, without understanding the costs ahead of time or exploring alternatives. Providers, lenders, and insurers deliberately obfuscate the billing aspect so that people don`t know what they`re getting into.

And students/patients fail to take any initiative and believe they can just sit back passively while a teacher/doctor who is only in the same room with them for X minutes at a time can magically make them informed/healthy.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 8:43 pm 


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quash wrote:
I told myself I'd take a break from this thread but this gem was just published

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/i ... cna1008576

Truly puzzling, why this may be happening. Experts have no idea. Does anyone here have a clue, maybe?

Pretty funny article. I like the intro where the author has to explain the unfashionable and risky caring about IQ.

Quote:
Though there are legitimate questions about the relationship between IQ and intelligence, and broad recognition that success depends as much on other virtues like grit, IQ tests in use throughout the world today really do seem to capture something meaningful and durable. Decades of research have shown that individual IQ scores predict things such as educational achievement and longevity. More broadly, the average IQ score of a country is linked to economic growth and scientific innovation.

It does actually represent enough of something to matter, it seems. Just don't take a fine-tooth comb to the data or draw any conclusions from that, or then we're in some bad territory (to prevent this from happening we typically have to deny that it means anything and emphasize the "questions about the relationship between IQ and intelligence", as MM knows very well ;)).

Quote:
...but also the potential end of progress on all these other fronts, ultimately leading to fewer scientific breakthroughs, stagnant economies and a general dimming of our collective future.

You don't say, and that would be why forward-thinking people believe this is a problem. If the formation of an advanced society was simple and easy, they'd be everywhere and not geographically clustered.

Quote:
One potential explanation was quasi-eugenic. As in the movie “Idiocracy,” it was suggested that average intelligence is being pulled down because lower-IQ families are having more children ("dysgenic fertility" is the technical term). Alternatively, widening immigration might be bringing less-intelligent newcomers to societies with otherwise higher IQs.

However, a 2018 study of Norway has punctured these theories by showing that IQs are dropping not just across societies but within families.

There is no "might be" about the immigration patterns.

Basically, "we better figure out why" this is happening, but it can't be mass immigration from lower IQ regions into higher regions that accounts for even a portion of the lowering of the latter - and here's the one study to quickly sweep one of the most likely and most problematic theories away.

Quote:
...our results remain consistent with a number of proposed hypotheses of IQ decline: changes in educational exposure or quality, changing media exposure, worsening nutrition or health, and social spill-overs from increased immigration.

Quote from study referenced above. Puncture patched?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:28 am 


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Joe Rogan Experience #1295 - Tulsi Gabbard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR8UcnwLH24

This is a very long-winded interview in which Tulsi references:
the usual stuff about wasting stupid money on stupid foreign policy and militarism
Eisenhower's MIC speech
Schumer's "they have six ways from Sunday of getting back at you" warning
the revolving door / regulatory capture
the New Knowledge fake Russian bots
freedom of speech
UBI
simplifying the tax code
Assange and Snowden


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:52 am 


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:59 pm 


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Specineff wrote:
"I'm going to keep hurting other, poorer people, particularly my own constituency, until ceaselessly blaming the resulting pain on nonwhites stops working!"

Fixed.

While we're here, it's not like the "white supremacy is just good science!" bullshit even merits a response, but what the hell.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:18 am 


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Biden's still leading in the polls.

Spoiler: show
Image


If he's still doing so two or three debates from now, might want to come to accept we're getting another 4 years of Goldwater/Bush/Reagan/Clinton/Whatever Face The Current Regime is Using As A Mask.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:08 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
"white supremacy is just good science!"

You have something akin to Tourette's.

Image

As Governor of Florida, USA, I have an obligation to oppose policies that unfairly target Israel. "Scrutinized Companies List"!

This man just returned from Jerusalem, where he spent some quality time with GOP megadonors and "ceremonially" (and later, for appearances, in his own country, actually) signed a bill that says Jews/Israel/Holocaust are beyond any form of soft or hard criticism or critical analysis (regardless of anyone's opinions, free speech is sacrosanct in America). If the government mandates that something must be learned but is also illegal to question, is that education or something else?

I've seen no evidence that the bulk of non-politician Americans love Israel more than they love the 1st Amendment, but we have anti-BDS laws in 27 states, and this has all happened over the past 5 years.

Image

Well, I suppose there is one group that doesn't care as much about the 1st Amendment.

If you ever find yourself wondering why people are obsessed with the Israel lobby over others, it is because Israel's interests are most destructive (listen for the war drum) and contrary to everyday American interests.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:47 pm 


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So the group who were murdered in their millions because of their religious identity and suffer continual abuse at the hands of the far left and far right, think that promoting an inclusive society matters more than protecting speech?

Well there's a damn shocker.

I know it seems like there isn't, but there are alternatives to conspiracy soda and some are low sugar.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:59 am 


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Rights before the utopia, always. Using historical events that took place an ocean away as an excuse for curtailing rights that Americans have bled for is the kind of thing that creates resentment.

system11 wrote:
conspiracy soda

ADL Statement on YouTube Policy Changes to Reduce Extremist Content

An ethnocentric organization gets to determine for the masses what "hate and extremism" is, which seems to overlap significantly with criticism of activities like theirs. Imagine being able to silence your critics so completely and with this perfect veneer of righteousness ("anti-hate"). The best thing to do to combat "anti-Semitism" would be to stop doing things like this.

Another thing for our moral betters to not do:

ADL bullying Ukraine into downplaying the Holodomor as serious as the Holocaust


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:20 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:

A fairly amusing response/review from a more interesting and trustworthy writer: Arguing Against Reality.

At least David Reich's book sounds like it might be worth a read.

Image

Modern-Day People In West Africa Possess DNA From An Unknown “Ghost” Hominin

In addition to thousands of years of near or complete isolation, we're also told that we are carrying remnants of different species/sub-species, but Woke Science tells us that this too doesn't matter.

Quote:
There’s simply nothing in the genome that’s an unambiguous marker of race.

Back to the Slate article. The argument here is literally that there is no "race gene". :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:19 am 


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Just saw a mention of that Futurama episode where everyone gets $300 after Earth conquered the spider planet, a reference to the Iraq war. Everyone frittered it away of course.

I dunno if we're gonna get $300 again in exchange for overthrowing Iran. Hopefully we've improved ourselves and won't settle for less than $500.

(We're worse and we won't be getting any blood money this time.)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:14 am 


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Mostly (but not entirely) for people posting in and reading this thread - probably worth reading the rules page as I updated them.

My current preferred pokemon is Yang, because he's one of the few who comes across as a human being in interviews.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:11 am 


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Yang is really interesting and comes across as earnest as possible. If he doesn't become president, he really should be secretary of labor, or whatever position gave him the most power and influence for his agenda. But unless something dramatic happens in the debates, he doesn't seem to have the momentum currently. I hope he does pick up.
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Last edited by szycag on Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:16 am 


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The democrats will push one of their spirit animals to the front again I expect - someone from the old political establishment or one of their relatives.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:29 am 


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Why Should Immigrants ‘Respect Our Borders’? The West Never Respected Theirs

Good 'immigration as revenge' article from the NY Times. It's our strength (he has stats, like the all-important GDP), but it's also time for America and Europe to pay the piper.

system11 wrote:
My current preferred pokemon is Yang, because he's one of the few who comes across as a human being in interviews.

Andrew Yang on why Asian Americans need to get involved in Politics

Quote:
Who is going to be the boogie man of the next 10 to 20 years? Who is going to be the next great rival in the eyes of American society? China. And so what do you think the attitude is going to be over time for the shrinking, insecure white majority that is losing their jobs for Chinese Americans or Asian Americans? Personally, I said to a group at Harvard, we are one generation away from falling into the same camps as the Jews, who were attacked in the synagogue in Pittsburgh. We are probably just one generation away from Americans shooting up a bunch of Asians because there’s a giant cold war with China. That is the great danger I fear my children are going to grow up in.

I never liked this guy, but this bit really rubbed me the wrong way, for a variety of reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:11 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Just saw a mention of that Futurama episode where everyone gets $300 after Earth conquered the spider planet, a reference to the Iraq war. Everyone frittered it away of course.

I dunno if we're gonna get $300 again in exchange for overthrowing Iran. Hopefully we've improved ourselves and won't settle for less than $500.

(We're worse and we won't be getting any blood money this time.)


I'm beginning to think the reason you're still bundling Warren (who's surging in the polls) with Gabbard (who's hiding under the bed from Ana Kasparian) while giving not-a-chance Yang his own spot is because he's offering you 1000 NEET-bux a month!

Fucking Batman and Tony Stark movies cementing the image of vampire billionaires as martyrs.

Spoiler: show
Image
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:02 pm 


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Rob wrote:
I never liked this guy, but this bit really rubbed me the wrong way, for a variety of reasons.

I didn't watch the speech so I don't know if Yang mentioned this, but presumably you're aware that the USA already put Japanese-Americans into concentration camps and seized their property during World War II? Completely justified, I'm sure you'd agree, because history has confirmed that the lot of them were indeed invading us, and that our fears to that end weren't merely corrosive, self-serving figments of our imaginations; obviously when Japan's economy briefly threatened to overtake ours in the 80's it was a deliberate act of revenge on their part.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:14 pm 


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Quote:
I didn't watch the speech so I don't know if Yang mentioned this,

Why don't you do this before commenting?

He's not talking about something the government will do (it's not going to do that) - he's talking about what his fellow civilians will do, and specifically white civilians. Just as ridiculously, I could speak to a group of white people and express fears about low sexual market value Asian men lashing out at and massacring white people, and cite one or two examples as justification for this fear.

Image

I could also express fears of Chinese spies. In fact, I think this is a lot more credible fear than deranged ex-truckers targeting "Asian churches".

Another thing about this is that he's simply able to express his ethnic fears to a group of co-ethnics, while this would be deemed a Klan rally if whites did anything similar. Also the fact that his concern for working class whites losing their livelihoods is all about him. I appreciate the honesty, though.

As for his star policy, UBI - we've got over 100,000 people a month coming here illegally or on a technicality and he wants to increase the size of the carrot? You've got to be fucking kidding me.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:06 pm 


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Rob wrote:
He's not talking about something the government will do (it's not going to do that) - he's talking about what his fellow civilians will do, and specifically white civilians.

Are you fucking serious, Rob? :lol: Are you honestly pretending that official policy and popular sentiment are somehow mutually exclusive, that they don't very directly, and deliberately, feed off of each other, especially when it comes to matters like this? Do you also intend to claim that the only hardships Japanese-Americans faced in the WWII era came from the government, and that the same goes for Middle-Easterners during the Bush era and Latinos now, among countless others? Do you think Yang said what he said completely removed from the rhetoric from on high we've been hearing for years now, that he just kind of pulled it out of thin air to piss white people off? Troll fucking harder. :lol:

Quote:
Just as ridiculously, I could speak to a group of white people and express fears about low sexual market value Latino and Native American men lashing out at and massacring white people, and cite one or two examples as justification for this fear.

I'd like to hear a better description of your posts in this thread. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:44 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Are you fucking serious, Rob?

Yes, I was very seriously addressing what Yang said, not what you think he might've or should've or possibly could have said.

Quote:
the rhetoric from on high we've been hearing for years now


Image

But, humoring you, I understand that you've been taught to think that there are many refugee and similar victims of "white supremacy" in America. It's very hard for Latinx when they sometimes get busted for their inability to follow the rules.

Quote:
I'd like to hear a better description of your posts in this thread.

This is a bizarre, nonsensical edit.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:09 am 


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Rob wrote:
Yes, I was very seriously addressing what Yang said, not what you think he might've or should've or possibly could have said.

Yup, because when he voiced concerns about potential violence towards Asian-Americans he was exclusively talking about "grassroots" violence, and moreover made abundantly clear that, against absolutely everything history has taught us, he believes, as you claim to, that such violence has absolutely no connection whatsoever to what people in positions of power are saying and doing. especially at this particular moment in time.

I'd tell you to get a fucking clue if I thought you were moronic enough to actually believe any of that shit, as opposed to veering feverishly away from the entire reason I brought up the internment camps in the first place: broad-brushing negative assumptions and actions onto wide swaths of people, no matter what its origin, is never treated kindly by history. For fuck's sake, you yourself state this very thing...insofar as it applies to discrimination against white people. :lol: Seriously, just fuck off. :lol:

Quote:
This is a bizarre, nonsensical edit.

Yup, it doesn't bear even a passing resemblance to a single thing you've ever posted. :lol: Harder, Rob, harder.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:44 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Yup, because when he voiced concerns about potential violence towards Asian-Americans he was exclusively talking about "grassroots" violence,

What I need for you to do is clear your mind of every between and outside the lines thing that you imagine Yang beamed to you. What he did say is that he fears white people will murder Asians in churches like white people are murdering Jews in synagogues. He specifically singles out white people as future mass murderers of church-going Asians.

And what is he basing this fear on? His one example is the Tree of Life shooting, which is tragic, but that is one incident. He could also add the Poway shooting where one person died. So based on something for which there are only two examples, he has prophesied a pogrom of his own people with whites as future villains (and they/we are, of course, the present villains).

Quote:
especially at this particular moment in time.

"White nationalists" have little influence and no power. Or maybe you can name some powerful figures for me?

CNN wrote:
A commenter on the 4chan bulletin board joked Trump was winking at them.

This is 21st century journalism.

Quote:
Yup, it doesn't bear even a passing resemblance to a single thing you've ever posted.

Uncross your eyes. At no point in this thread have I made an issue of something so rare that there exists only two examples, and from those two examples fear-mongered a nightmare future for a group that wasn't involved in either of those two examples. I'm interested in the macro. When I use an example it is to illustrate a wider issue.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:51 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
I'm beginning to think the reason you're still bundling Warren (who's surging in the polls) with Gabbard (who's hiding under the bed from Ana Kasparian) while giving not-a-chance Yang his own spot is because he's offering you 1000 NEET-bux a month!


Seriously though, it was this outrageous thing that actually happened in reality, and I had completely forgotten that it happened. Had to do some low estimates on what the ratio on that was: We got paid $1 per 1,500 murdered foreigners, 23 dead Americans, 266 Americans whose life was ruined 1st hand by that war.

A generation later, still there. No exit plan. If it were more profitable to conquer them, we'd turn them into a colony. But we don't need their labor, just their stuff. And of course, no marshall plan to rebuild the place and end the war.

I've already told you again and again I don't like Tulsi touching Warren like that either. system11 and Bulletmagnet are right there, ask'em to install a plug-in to increase the poll options.

(Bundling Danny Glover and Danny DeVito with The Rock and Arnold under "Hollywood celebrity" is its own can of worms.)

Quote:
who's surging in the polls


Here is where you go to look at the polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

The only meaningful movement from the beginning of the year has been for Buttigieg. And you can argue that Robert has faded, but I think that was just a fad.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:28 pm 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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Poochie O'Rourke died on the way back to his home planet.


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