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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Andrew Yang 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Kamala Harris 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Donald Trump 33%  33%  [ 19 ]
Tulsi Gabbard 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 41%  41%  [ 24 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:00 am 


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The Dem establishment universally supports regime change. The "best" of them, Warren, can't even bring herself to say "Guaidó has no legitimate claim to power" and advocates further sanctions to punish the foolish plebs who won't cough up the oil. Biden has basically outright asked for Maduro's head to be removed from his body pronto.

To paraphrase a remark from this thread's early days, "anyone who thinks there's a big difference between Democrats and Republicans has taken too many loads to the eyes."


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:04 pm 


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Be a chump,
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:28 pm 


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Trump reverses the actions taken against the companies helping NK to avoid previously-imposed sanctions. Because he "likes Kim Jong Un a lot". Awww, isn't that lovely? <3 ( https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm632 )

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/22/trump-s ... tions.html

We're lucky that Hillary is not in office to do this, because then it would be treason, huh? Just like with Uranium One and all those kids they were forcing into prostitution at a pizza parlor, huh? Thank Jeezus for someone with the True American Christian Values (TM) like Trump, right, Repugs? MNKGA!
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"Again, I can't be mad at you because your thought process has been hijacked by a mind virus." -Quash, Feb 9, 2018.

Be a chump,
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:46 pm 


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Specineff wrote:
Trump reverses the actions taken against the companies helping NK to avoid previously-imposed sanctions. Because he "likes Kim Jong Un a lot". Awww, isn't that lovely? <3 ( https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm632 )

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/22/trump-s ... tions.html

We're lucky that Hillary is not in office to do this, because then it would be treason, huh? Just like with Uranium One and all those kids they were forcing into prostitution at a pizza parlor, huh? Thank Jeezus for someone with the True American Christian Values (TM) like Trump, right, Repugs? MNKGA!

Hindsight is 20/20
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chum wrote:
the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:11 pm 


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Specineff wrote:
gibberish

Are you feeling stupid (of course not) now that the Trump-Russia conspiracy nuttery that you clownishly bought for two years has fallen through? For Christ's sake stop talking about American politics. We can all see what propaganda of the moment is being televised for ourselves - we don't need you to repeat an 80 IQ version of it for us.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:47 pm 


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Mike Gravel, eh? This must be a clever plan to make people stop thinking of Bernie as "the OLD guy"


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:37 pm 


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Yeah, it disgusts me whenever someone says politics is "worse" than it used to be. It's like they've never paid attention to a single thing going on. (And I guess it's hard to blame them when their only window to the world, the TV, only shows them pointless Benghazi/email/Russia collusion sham theater 24/7. So they don't get weird unacceptable thoughts like voting to give themselves a raise.)

Here's Mike Gravel stating that the soldiers that died in Vietnam died for nothing. And Obama's long weaselly word salad that goes all over the place before settling on "By definition American troops can not die in vain." The ugly truth is that Mike's statement is also false - those kids of ours didn't die in vain. They died for an effort to make the world a worse place.

A comforting lie is so much easier to swallow, I suppose. Especially as a method to accept what you have no power to change.

His observation of the substance-less, "celebrity nature of politics" and call to implement some forms of direct democracy is refreshing in this sea of WWF distraction wankoff bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:46 pm 


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It's a shame the country that actually exerts undue influence over Trump will never be investigated.

Which is why I'm registering as a Democrat and supporting Andrew Yang in the primaries. Let's secure that bag and get that bread, gamers.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:39 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Are you feeling stupid (of course not) now that the Trump-Russia conspiracy nuttery that you clownishly bought for two years has fallen through? For Christ's sake stop talking about American politics. We can all see what propaganda of the moment is being televised for ourselves - we don't need you to repeat an 80 IQ version of it for us.


WHEN DID I EVER MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION, YOU TRISOMIC IMBECILE? The only stupid thing here is your collating my mention of his tweet with the Mueller investigation. I kept quiet about it because there is the chance that nothing could be proven (guilty or not), he could legitimately claim plausible deniability, or even be actually unconnected to the whole deal.

So, kindly grab your Gung-ho "Yeaaaah, fuck you yeaaaaah" attitude (Thanks for this, BM, btw) and shove it. He's the one who tweeted about reversing the NK sanctions, not me; and if it troubles you that someone who isn't a blue-eyed, blonde caucasian with a birthmark in the shape of the Liberty Bell points out the hypocrisy and obtuseness of your Orange Messiah (especially now that it's proving so troublesome for him to get you the promised revenge you need to exact on those evil latinos), THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, DEAL WITH IT.

Short version: Don't obliquely pin on me an issue I wasn't talking about just so that you can fulfill the pathological need you seem to have to shit on people from other ethnicities or races; it's not my fault that you may have gotten used by a foreigner to get a green card, or that a man in a burrito suit raped you.
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Be a chump,
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 8:58 pm 


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From here on out, you can parse all of my posts as "$1000 a month", because at this point it's the only thing that matters. Eventually, most will come to the same conclusion.

https://twitter.com/YangGangFanClub/sta ... 73793?s=19


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:14 pm 


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quash wrote:
Which is why I'm registering as a Democrat and supporting Andrew Yang in the primaries. Let's secure that bag and get that bread, gamers.


haha, you srs?

Image

Quote:
We're lucky that Hillary is not in office to do this, because then it would be treason, huh?


You're absolutely right there's always blind partisan cheerleading, but try not to get too wrapped up on the bickering and hypocrisy.

It's why it's so much easier to advance the idea of a policy, and not a man. M4A has over 60% support from citizens, but getting a person that actually supports it, elected as even president is going to be very difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:00 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
haha, you srs?


Serious zerious. As much as he was and still is better than the alternative, Zion Don was only delaying the inevitable. That's why it's time for gamers to rise up and get Jeff Bezos to pay our UBI, and maybe some government issued gfs.

https://twitter.com/Rogue_Synth/status/ ... 86464?s=19


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:18 am 


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Heh.

One thing that's kind of a downer is that the "1,000 bux" was a number that the BI community settled on over a decade ago. Like the idea of getting Bernie's $15 bux by 2025 or whatever - it's just like this number that's frozen in carbonite. It's the kind of thing that makes me feel like I'm getting old, like a grandpa that thinks a quarter is a lot of money.

(It's kind of terrifying that oligarchs keep saying they support a BI. Bezos will give us $1,000 bux, but won't give his employees air conditioning? I know his particular business (along with Wal Mart) would thrive if people had more disposable income, but still...)

Getting back to that topic of rent (the only reason 1,000 bux is a necessity anyway), 3 room state apartments back in the USSR apparently used to rent for 1/10th of someone's salary. It is obviously kinda silly to rent an inert piece of wood, plastic and copper - do you rent your furniture or your clothes, too? How about life-long car rentals? It doesn't make any sense.

At the very least it'd probably be prudent to have some non-profit competition when it comes to the largest living expense we have to deal with.

... eh, I'm sure the Elon Cube/Bezos Barn thing is just a jokey metaphor, right? ... ... ..


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:59 pm 


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So about that Muller report folks.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:09 am 


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quash wrote:
It's a shame the country that actually exerts undue influence over Trump will never be investigated.

Ain't that the truth.

I'm sure there are many gems, but a little teaser from the day's speeches at AIPAC:

Image

We have our fellow here "representing Maryland's Fifth Congressional District" who has very little reason to be fixated on Israel, he tells you, but he'll be damned if he doesn't love Israel x15 much, and he gladly accepts your accusation that he divides his loyalty with a foreign ethno-religious nation that he has no good reason to halve his loyalty for.

"the essential right of Jews to have a place of sanctuary in their homeland"
"the Jewish people’s right to self-determination"
"Israel’s existence as a Jewish state cannot be threatened"

Hoyer, of course, condemns "white nationalism".

"In Israel’s democracy, where rule of law is upheld and freedom of expression is assured, Americans see a mirror image of our own."

Bipartisan House group introduces anti-BDS resolution

Quote:
An aide to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said a vote has not been scheduled but that Hoyer "believes the BDS Movement should be condemned."

The loyalty Hoyer feels for Israel must be clouding his judgment.

And the ever-present war drum here:

"In 2019, the most dangerous source of terror aimed at Israel – and the United States – continues to be Iran."

"And the United States". Uh huh.

Domino wrote:
So about that Muller report folks.

Ok, that's all well and good, but does anyone remember the $4700 in Google ads. :o Our Democracy was under siege - the media told me so.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:30 pm 


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*GASP*

Stenny Hoyer is garbage?!!

MY MONOCLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:12 pm 


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Was just thinking back to that time Mitt Romney said "who let the dogs out woof woof" while taking a photo with a class of black kids. And that segways naturally to thinking about the various antics of Biden we'll be getting to see in the near future.

One event with the man that always stuck with me is when he was giving a speech to some students, and one of the kids started tearing up and Biden gave him a hug. The kid couldn't articulate why he behaved that way at the time, but it's easy to speculate that it was because he saw Biden as a defender against all the people who don't even see the kid as a human being.

This emotional dimension is extremely powerful - like how Trump's wall is a monument akin to Mount Rushmore, or Medicare For All is a monument to "making the country a better place".

To those drinking the poison of corporate media, Biden is a comforting draught. "Let's get along with the other side!" is super effective with the gutless cowards who don't want to face actual conflict. Or the disapproval from their imaginary friends, the millionaire TV actors.

As for Robert and his sickness that requires him to stand on all the things, well, this is to be expected of the Obama faction. I don't think he's nearly as good at puking out placating gibberish that Obama was.

Here's a cursed image of one of his brethren demonstrating identical symptoms. Don't look at it unless you want to die in 7 days.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:40 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Stenny Hoyer is garbage?!!

I refuse to believe that my lawyerly sparring partner missed the point this bady. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:12 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
"Let's get along with the other side!" is super effective with the gutless cowards who don't want to face actual conflict.


What kind of "actual conflict" are you envisioning?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:36 pm 


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OdiousTrident wrote:
What kind of "actual conflict" are you envisioning?


You know how Democrats vote alongside many of the same things as Republicans? Such as Obama implementing the Heritage Foundation's healthcare plan (also known as "Romney Care") for the insurance companies? Or Obama "trying" (and failing) to put a Republican on the Supreme Court? Or Joe Biden voting for the Iraq war? Or Chuck Schumer and Mike Pence holding hands at Aipac and calling anyone who's against exterminating Palestine an "anti-semite"? Or Joe Biden drooling at the mouth at the plan to install a dictator in Venezuela?

How about a Democratic party that doesn't do these kinds of things. How about instead of two parties of the wealthy and powerful, maybe we can get along fine with only one of them.

Insane and radical, I know.

....Nah, it's better to embrace catastrophe and possible extinction than not have republicans and democrats be super best friends with each other. Bush has an approval rating of 60%, just like Trump will have after him and Obama hug at Biden's funeral. That's the only thing that matters, right?

The arc of world history could have been completely different if Henry Wallace wasn't ratfucked decades ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:23 pm 


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Two things are required for the "powerful" to influence political opinion.

1. Money. This is a big problem.

2. Logical points. This is not a problem. Anyone saying political positions can be simply "bought" without strong logical arguments is not well informed.

Can some of these arguments be based on misleading data? Yes. That is a separate problem on both the right and left.

Israeli influence on US politics is a two party problem. Absolutely. Israeli influence on the Iraq War is more complicated.

Romney Care was a stopgap to prevent broad systemic problems. Not ideal but necessary.

They already have a dictator in Venezuela. I haven't seen a Biden quote that states the position you're suggesting. Maybe I missed it. A dangerous minority on the right have been drooling no doubt.

Henry Wallace would probably have been a good president for this arc. Those in poverty would have a lower standard of living (due to less competitive economy) and we wouldn't be a world superpower... but people might be happier and the working class would be more protected and comfortable financially. Greatest good for the greatest number I guess... just not for the poorest in America.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:28 pm 


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OdiousTrident wrote:
Anyone saying political positions can be simply "bought" without strong logical arguments is not well informed.


Nope. Donors control policy. Santa Claus isn't real. Nor is professional wrestling. Don't feel bad about this, lots of kids fall for this scam.

The tail doesn't wag the dog. If you actually swallow their ad-hoc propaganda you're as much as a chump as those North Koreans who think Kim poops gold and pees ice cream. (Most North Koreans are intelligent enough to not believe this. Thus why Chomsky notes how propaganda in the private sector is more effective than propaganda from the state itself. One actively seeks out how best to work to increase its holdings, the other is just someone passively reading off a script.)

Your assertion someone effectively employed by Goldman Sachs isn't a representative of their interests is an absurdity beyond absurdity.

Quote:
They already have a dictator in Venezuela.


Nope. You've been grossly misinformed.

The regime in Venezuela is as much or less of a dictatorship than the regime we have here in the USA.

It's always a trip to take a peek at the manufactured reality you TV guys have been served. Did you know that Palestine isn't a state, in certain localized locations of the world? Weird how that works. Wonder how that happened.

Is it the bribes our sock puppets receive, or is it the logical result of cold but fair - ah I can't even entertain that farce anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:54 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
The regime in Venezuela is as much or less of a dictatorship than the regime we have here in the USA.

As bad as things are here in some ways, off the top of my head I don't think were quite to the level of Univison's story of how Jorge Ramos and his crew were detained, had their equipment confiscated, and were then deported en masse halfway through an interview with Maduro. Or do you think they exaggerated/made it all up?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:32 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
As bad as things are here in some ways, off the top of my head I don't think were quite to the level of Univison's story of how Jorge Ramos and his crew were detained, had their equipment confiscated, and were then deported en masse halfway through an interview with Maduro.


He made some rich people wait around for an hour or two and took away some of their stuff?

What a monster. Let's depose him and take his oil immediately.

That is indeed totally worse than lying about Iraq or Vietnam, starting a war of aggression, and murdering hundreds of thousands of people. Thank you for opening my eyes.

(I really don't get how you guys can't get furious at how these people act. A guy massacres a lot of people just trying to go to church in New Zealand, and They act like Meghan McCain and Chelsea Clinton are the real victims. It's transparent and disgusting.)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:05 am 


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BryanM wrote:
BulletMagnet wrote:
As bad as things are here in some ways, off the top of my head I don't think were quite to the level of Univison's story of how Jorge Ramos and his crew were detained, had their equipment confiscated, and were then deported en masse halfway through an interview with Maduro.


He made some rich people wait around for an hour or two and took away some of their stuff?

What a monster. Let's depose him and take his oil immediately.

That is indeed totally worse than lying about Iraq or Vietnam, starting a war of aggression, and murdering hundreds of thousands of people. Thank you for opening my eyes.

(I really don't get how you guys can't get furious at how these people act. A guy massacres a lot of people just trying to go to church in New Zealand, and They act like Meghan McCain and Chelsea Clinton are the real victims. It's transparent and disgusting.)


What the fuck you are smoking....give me that shit.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:49 am 


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Domino wrote:
What the fuck you are smoking....give me that shit.


A president is not a regime. It is a sock puppet for donors and their institutions. A regime is a group of people who wield power.

The united class that executed the Vietnam and Iraq interventions is the same regime we have today. The faces change. The institutions that hold power don't.

I know a lot of people place importance in cosmetic framing, but I do not.

It's also exhausting hearing simulents parrot the talking points of known liars as if they were gospel.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:01 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Domino wrote:
What the fuck you are smoking....give me that shit.


A president is not a regime. It is a sock puppet for donors and their institutions. A regime is a group of people who wield power.

The united class that executed the Vietnam and Iraq interventions is the same regime we have today. The faces change. The institutions that hold power don't.

I know a lot of people place importance in cosmetic framing, but I do not.

It's also exhausting hearing simulents parrot the talking points of known liars as if they were gospel.


Don't go to South Florida and say that shit in public. High changes you would mostly likely get your butt beat up by Venezuelan folks.

I met plenty of Cubans and Venezuelans over the years, and the one thing they hated most are White Liberals saying shit like that. They think they know better than them.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:05 am 


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Duh, they're expats for a reason.

Put aside any words people want to put in the mouths of Venezuelans, the simple fact is we don't need to get into yet another Iraq!

In 2014 it was confirmed that Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia, but so long as the Bolivarian government remains in power, that oil is not in the hands of US oil companies. How could anyone have lived through the rolling list of excuses to get into Iraq (Saddam did 9/11, Saddam has yellowcake uranium and is building a nuke, Saddam has other WMDs, the long-suffering people of Iraq want us to invade and will greet our soldiers with roses, Iraq would not have become such a goddamn mess if it weren't for that dang Shia/Sunni rivarly!) yet now in modern times find themselves moved by the crocodile tears about the poor Venezuelan people (whose economy has been under heavy US sanctions ever since the failed US-backed coup attempt against Hugo Chavez in 2002) from the neocon ghouls of the Trump administration?

Lucy isn't going to hold the football this time!

And while the Maduro presidency definitely has its problems, accepting an "aid convoy" from Elliott Abrams is about as advisable as accepting a drink from Jeffrey Dahmer.
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A wealthy oligarch and two working-class dudes, one black one white, sit at a table with ten cookies.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:31 pm 


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Quote:
I know a lot of people place importance in cosmetic framing, but I do not.


You keep citing youtube links for data and you can honestly say this? It seems you're more than capable of going deeper into the facts instead of this reductionist approach. The world is not as simple as the paradigms we find in fiction... oppressed vs. oppressor etc...

The people on the senate floor that have been partially "bought" are using actual arguments based on fact to defend their positions. They're not using generalisms. If we want to fight this why not argue at their level instead of generalisms and appeals to basic emotion?

There are real academic arguments for things like protectionism and military buildup... And there are real arguments against those points. Why not get involved with those? I know it's tiring but these conversations become cyclical when we don't go into the issues. The people who actually benefit from cyclical discussion are people in power.

For example.. when a majority of business economists oppose progressive policy.. why not address their concerns directly?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary - Welcome to the Gravelanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:26 pm 


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Okay, here's someone with academic credentials talking about the subject.
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