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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Cory Booker 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Kamala Harris 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren / Tulsi Gabbard 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Donald Trump 36%  36%  [ 13 ]
Michael Avenatti 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Bernard Sanders 36%  36%  [ 13 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 36
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:02 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Racism and fear of change.
Fear, is the primacy of all living things.

"Racisim", as I undestand it, is a politically correct creation, designed to corral fear to political ends when it presents itself as a breach of law, or more likely, as politically unwanted discrimination
(and I mean this word in the neutral sense of "discernment").

That is to say, Newspeak.

trap15 wrote:
EDIT: To elaborate, fear of other tribes was (maybe) a useful trait a long time ago. That is still in some people's natures (which is what I mean about subconscious bias), but also the mentality can spread to those without that nature via those.
A mind virus? Interesting. Of course, as it is fear, it would indeed be contagious.

trap15 wrote:
Which is why I'm not insane enough to think racism will ever go away,
I get the strong impression, that you travel this territory according to a very neatly drawn map.

trap15 wrote:
and why I believe intentionally giving historically discriminated people a leg up is useful.
To be painfully direct, where you see History, I see Biology.

Affirmative action, or as they say in the Great Britain, with the inimitable dissonance only an Englishman can muster - Positive discrimination!

When the objective action of "Affirmative action" and that of "Racism", are one and the same, does it not give you pause, trap15?

Or, does your map overrule the territory?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:09 pm 


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Going to try to convey this, it took me a bit to consider. I think affirmative action is ok, because it has a negative effect only on those with systematic advantage already. Whereas racism has a negative effect on those with existing disadvantages. Therefore we increase the disadvantages disparity, which my understanding is not something one could vouch for without being a, ahem, asshole.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:17 am 


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BryanM wrote:
They put a bunch of black kids into a shipping crate next to the train tracks as their school. Basically cutting them off from the rest of the population and making sure they're at the bottom of society and stay there for the rest of their lives.

Why do the horrors always have to be embellished beyond all reason? A picture of the inside of one of these isolating "shipping crates":

Image

It turns out the "shipping crate" you'd have us imagine is just an econo-classroom - not fancy, but a classroom nonetheless. I've spent a decent amount of time in similar outdoor overflow units.

Here are some pictures of white classes in prefab steel Quonset huts, for comparison:

Image

The above is from my area.

Image

Admittedly getting a bit fancy - maybe it's the excessive lights or flowers that raised the scores in this one.

Quote:
putting a boot on someone's neck and taking their stuff is going to make the robbed person less well off.

Are you speaking of white taxpayers who have been forced to fund an experiment in closing the academic achievement gap that hasn't budged an inch after 50 years of that money being thrown into the void? America is not the unending goose stepping rally Antifa-types wish it was. Very, very few white people want to see co-citizens fail, as we have to live with it, be blamed for and pay for it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:04 am 


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trap15 wrote:
Therefore we increase the disadvantages disparity, which my understanding is not something one could vouch for without being a, ahem, asshole.


Yeah... like with how we outsourced jobs instead of giving people raises, so it was easier to kill people who dared ask for a raise (essentially outsourcing misery) without having to worry about them voting against you or forming a mob that can do anything.

Segregating people into bubbles is a fine way to hide the benefits and hardships other types of people face, and minimizes empathy. Just like how our banker friends here think everything is fantastic just because every person they know makes at least six figures a year, having a permanent underclass shoulder the bulk of the necessary unemployment is great for our owners.

It's not like West Virginians can suddenly take up radish farming or computer programming.

And on the topic of memes, it's kind of amusing to me that the two commandments of the emerging political revolution are simply "be cool" and "don't be an asshole".


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:40 am 


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^^Man, you are like a Howard Zinn pullstring doll. :shock:

trap15 wrote:
It could be due to subconscious bias that causes them to think less of the latter's qualifications even if they're similar.

I could see a person consciously thinking less of the latter's qualifications because of the heavy-handed racial scale tipping that has taken place. This is one of the commonly cited drawbacks to countering "systemic privilege" (or whatever one wants to label the belief), but it's worth repeating - those with actual ability are lumped in with people who get a leg up while not having the same ability.

But I don't buy the personal biases (of any kind) theory as an explanation for what can be explained by looking at any indicator of intelligence, which would then naturally translate into higher academic achievement and higher earning potential. Even if it was universally a case of phantasmic subconscious bias, what law(s) would you propose to solve unfair thinking? Like California, government mandated female tokenism on corporate boards or whatever other group and position?

Quote:
because it has a negative effect only on those with systematic advantage already

Why should anyone have to accept a "negative effect" because of a thing that is not proven to exist, and for how long should they be expected to accept it?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:32 am 


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Gabbard just spoke against:
-regime change, WW3, and MIC waste
-mass surveillance
and in favor of:
+medicare for all
+criminal justice reform

The MSM smear campaign is well underway.
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It's spelled "dysfunctional," Mr. Perfect Human Specimen.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:04 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Going to try to convey this, it took me a bit to consider. I think affirmative action is ok, because it has a negative effect only on those with systematic advantage already. Whereas racism has a negative effect on those with existing disadvantages. Therefore we increase the disadvantages disparity, which my understanding is not something one could vouch for without being a, ahem, asshole.
That's a lot of ideas in a small number of words, so forgive me if I misinterpret any of the reasoning behind your statements.

trap15 wrote:
I think affirmative action is ok, because it has a negative effect only on those with systematic advantage already.
Systemic advantage? And this system would have come about through racism, is that right?
And therefore, the advantage you speak of, would be the spoils of racism, yes?

trap15 wrote:
Whereas racism has a negative effect on those with existing disadvantages.
This one sounds like some type of Infinite loop!

trap15 wrote:
Therefore we increase the disadvantages disparity, which my understanding is not something one could vouch for without being a, ahem, asshole.
By we, I take it you mean White people? (and did you just call me an asshole? Again! :shock: Where is the noble frater BulletMagnet, when you need him?!)


I think that you are perilously close to the circular dissonance of a "racism exists because of racism" argument, in service of wilfully ignoring biological realities.

I am fairly certain, that you observe immutable differences in those around you, daily.
To discern some racial differences, while, due to subjective bias, refusing to see others, is to jump from personal discernment up to objective "discrimination". Is this not . . . racism?

As far as addressing racism, by implementing a form of ethical, race specific discrimination;

The implementation of a temporal, ethical code, derived from a subjective moral one, well . . . The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:20 pm 


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I still don't get why people are for affirmative action

As far as I know, when schools or workplaces look at your grades/cv, there's no race identified on there, so it's no like having a higher melanin content gets you pushed aside despite your good grades/good cv

Oh well, it's not the worst thing evar to have a little bit of it. but ultimately I just don't get it... and there are people of darker complexion who also think it's lame, and who finds it kinda insulting


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:39 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
I still don't get why people are for affirmative action
As far as I know, when schools or workplaces look at your grades/cv, there's no race identified on there

Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away
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the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:42 pm 


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Durandal wrote:
Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away

Will that get you pushed aside if you have good grades though?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:58 pm 


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Durandal wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
I still don't get why people are for affirmative action
As far as I know, when schools or workplaces look at your grades/cv, there's no race identified on there

Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away


HUH?!

Sonofabitch!

What do you mean, "Foreign-sounding"?!

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:18 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away

Will that get you pushed aside if you have good grades though?

It does if you're Asian!

These Affirmative Action types, are fucking racists! :lol:

Asian-Americans Suing Harvard Say Admissions Files Show Discrimination

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:15 pm 


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When this kind of topic comes up, I wonder how much people are aware of what has been taking place and to what scale. A recent book for inquisitive Americans - go to library and have a gander.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:35 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away

Will that get you pushed aside if you have good grades though?

If we assume that an employer won't look at your resume for any longer than, let's take a completely random number, six seconds, they probably won't even get to your grades. The first thing they'll see is your name, and especially for highly sought after positions which get a whole heap of e-mail applications per day can those subconscious biases be the deciding factor. In fact, a local Dutch study showed that a foreign name makes it less likely for your resume attachment to even be opened, let alone your e-mail. It'd be a hard sell to say the deck isn't stacked against you when you happen to have a funny name, even if your qualifications are outstanding.

Unfortunately I don't believe in affirmative action because the actual implementation thereof is bound to cause headaches for both the advantaged and disadvantaged, and because I don't really believe in equalized distribution of misery, let alone its long-term viability. Supposing balancing is a consequence of enforcing quotas and (the inevitable) bending of application standards to achieve them, the disadvantaged party is even less likely than before to be approved once the quota of the disadvantaged has been met, while failed applicants on the advantaged side are bound to feel at least some kind of resentment against affirmative action if they know it's being enforced. You apply because you want something. Nobody thinks without lying to themselves that they're better off not having the job they applied for anyways because they thought a disadvantaged person deserved it more, because that level of unselfishness is simply not human, especially if you're already jobless.

I think efforts on improving economic equality are better spent elsewhere than on something as obtuse as equalizing success rates for even getting a solicitation meeting.

Zen wrote:
HUH?!
Sonofabitch!
What do you mean, "Foreign-sounding"?!

I don't understand how you don't get tired of this solo spiel even after a several hundred pages.
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the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:03 am 


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Uh oh.
Quote:
A Monmouth University poll published Monday found that 56 percent of Democrats will vote for a candidate they think can unseat the president, regardless of that candidate’s values. This result marked a departure from previous campaigns, where only 16 percent of Democrats prioritized “electability.”

Is it going to be John Kerry vs GWB all over again?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:26 am 


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Durandal wrote:
I think efforts on improving economic equality are better spent elsewhere than on something as obtuse as equalizing success rates for even getting a solicitation meeting.


I guess I'd have to agree. It is a form of means-testing, and is the typical ugly sort of thing social liberals endorse - The idea that you have to "deserve it" to be allowed dignity or basic survival. And as we all know too well from listening to it 24/7, it causes our conservative liberal friends here to have something tangible to fight against in their crusade to make sure they push other people down as far as possible.

When Jim Webb mentioned that he thought there should be affirmative action for poor white people too, and people in the audience gasped, that illustrates how divisive and difficult this topic is to handle. "Fund public education" is so much easier to sell and have happen.

Reparations falls into a similar nightmarish hell, of who gets what exactly. There's even some fringe people who are absolutely fucking furious they didn't get the forty acres and a mule they were promised, and want literally that.

We'll have full gay space communism long before that guy ever gets his damn mule and radish crops going. It's not technically fair, but, reality is what it is.

Quote:
Is it going to be John Kerry vs GWB all over again?


Monmouth is historically the worst polling outfit and polling won't be meaningful until the first few debates take place later this year...

But yeah. I can even believe their claim that Biden has the lead right now. Registered democrats love democrats. Why wouldn't it be another Kerry vs Bush election? That's all they had to offer for the last four decades.

One anecdote that sticks with me is this guy who went to a caucus and met a man who said something like "I agree more with Bernie, but I think Hillary has a better chance to win so I'm voting for her." and the other guy was like "You stupid old fuck! Do not see the self-defeating contradiction there?!", but like, with nicer words.

The term I believe is "gas lighting": the creation of a false reality. In a normal untainted world, no one would ever think about "electability". But the TV keeps talking about it and how the corporate democrat that's exactly identical to republicans is much more beloved and electable. Somehow. (Trump is a great example of how much of a fucking lie and fraud the entire concept always was. An empty tautology once examined - "they're more electable because they're more electable, not because they actually appeal to anyone in particular.")

This old exchange between Frank Luntz and the audience at The Nightly Show is a perfect example of how fucked we still are.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:51 am 


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BryanM wrote:
One anecdote that sticks with me is this guy who went to a caucus and met a man who said something like "I agree more with Bernie, but I think Hillary has a better chance to win so I'm voting for her." and the other guy was like "You stupid old fuck! Do not see the self-defeating contradiction there?!", but like, with nicer words.

Was it in this video?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:07 am 


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Aw cripes! If we've all got insomnia tonight and we're all talking about politics on a videogame forum, why aren't we all talking about this?!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:29 am 


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I'm always night crew bro.

It's nice seeing a congress critter that's living in the present. There's been a lot of talk about the generational disconnect. As an example, how old people are mindful of taboos like swearing. Say "fuck", and they get offended. While to us who are under 300 years of age, it's a synonym and as banal as the word "totally". It's hard to get one's panties in a flutter over a little word we've heard when we were little kids. It reminds me of He-Man and Thundercats, more than anything else.

In Penn and Teller's premiere episode of Bullshit!, they note that in the past the word "humbug" was also considered crass in its day. It always reminds me of how we always have to invent new words once the old ones have all their emotion drained out of'em.

.... also it's kind of mind blowing that AOC has had a bigger impact on society in a few months than Crowley would have had in ten thousand lifetimes.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:54 pm 


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Durandal wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Foreign-sounding names tend to give it away

Will that get you pushed aside if you have good grades though?

If we assume that an employer won't look at your resume for any longer than, let's take a completely random number, six seconds, they probably won't even get to your grades. The first thing they'll see is your name, and especially for highly sought after positions which get a whole heap of e-mail applications per day can those subconscious biases be the deciding factor. In fact, a local Dutch study showed that a foreign name makes it less likely for your resume attachment to even be opened, let alone your e-mail. It'd be a hard sell to say the deck isn't stacked against you when you happen to have a funny name, even if your qualifications are outstanding.

Unfortunately I don't believe in affirmative action because the actual implementation thereof is bound to cause headaches for both the advantaged and disadvantaged, and because I don't really believe in equalized distribution of misery, let alone its long-term viability. Supposing balancing is a consequence of enforcing quotas and (the inevitable) bending of application standards to achieve them, the disadvantaged party is even less likely than before to be approved once the quota of the disadvantaged has been met, while failed applicants on the advantaged side are bound to feel at least some kind of resentment against affirmative action if they know it's being enforced. You apply because you want something. Nobody thinks without lying to themselves that they're better off not having the job they applied for anyways because they thought a disadvantaged person deserved it more, because that level of unselfishness is simply not human, especially if you're already jobless.

I think efforts on improving economic equality are better spent elsewhere than on something as obtuse as equalizing success rates for even getting a solicitation meeting.
So basically, in-group preference is a thing.

I don''t see the problem.


Durandal wrote:
Zen wrote:
HUH?!
Sonofabitch!
What do you mean, "Foreign-sounding"?!

I don't understand how you don't get tired of this solo spiel even after a several hundred pages.
Isn't that a lot of hostility, over a Kirk Lazarus impression?!

Also;
Durandal wrote:
funny name


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:01 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Aw cripes! If we've all got insomnia tonight and we're all talking about politics on a videogame forum, why aren't we all talking about this?!

Clicking on an Mischief Maker link, is like a box of chocolates!

Any chance of a courtesy warning, MM? Is it degenerate free, this time?!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:03 pm 


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Zen wrote:
Any chance of a courtesy warning, MM?


Trigger Warning: Donkey Kong 64 gameplay
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:17 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
It's nice seeing a congress critter that's living in the present. There's been a lot of talk about the generational disconnect. As an example, how old people are mindful of taboos like swearing. Say "fuck", and they get offended. While to us who are under 300 years of age, it's a synonym and as banal as the word "totally". It's hard to get one's panties in a flutter over a little word we've heard when we were little kids. It reminds me of He-Man and Thundercats, more than anything else.
It is not a matter of disconnect, age or taboo. I believe the issue, is one of simply not declaring oneself socially retarded. (see under; A.O.C.)

BryanM wrote:
In Penn and Teller's premiere episode of Bullshit!, they note that in the past the word "humbug" was also considered crass in its day. It always reminds me of how we always have to invent new words once the old ones have all their emotion drained out of'em.
You mean like "privilege", "racist" "antisemite"? Yeah, they are failing. Gonna need some new semantic chains soon, for sure :D

In fairness, I get what you mean but "Society" and it's "Rules", do not need to be logical. They are a vetting apparatus. Ignore, at your peril.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:46 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Zen wrote:
Any chance of a courtesy warning, MM?


Trigger Warning: Donkey Kong 64 gameplay


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:28 am 


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ED-057 wrote:
Gabbard just spoke against:
-regime change, WW3, and MIC waste
-mass surveillance
and in favor of:
+medicare for all
+criminal justice reform

The MSM smear campaign is well underway.

The powers that be have even sprung for a Chernobyl-grade endorsement from Special Agent David Duke! Pulling out all of the stops. :shock: Yeah, there must be something really threatening about her given the universal flogging from the media. Another quick find: Russia's propaganda machine discovers 2020 Democratic candidate Tulsi Gabbard


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:34 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Trigger Warning: Donkey Kong 64 gameplay


Never played it. Was it really just another one of those early 3d games where everything is just a giant void and all you do is collect piles of meaningless tokens?

You know, like in Ocarina of Time.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:05 pm 


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Christ almighty, the Times has run plenty of god-awful Heritage Foundation pap of late, but seriously, can anyone with a pulse read this shit and not think "These people are openly and gleefully determined to rip me and the rest of non-plutocrat society the ever-loving fuck off?" :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:09 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Christ almighty, the Times has run plenty of god-awful Heritage Foundation pap of late, but seriously, can anyone with a pulse read this shit and not think "These people are openly and gleefully determined to rip me and the rest of non-plutocrat society the ever-loving fuck off?" :lol:


I will be honest with you, I couldn't get past the title. Just the title and I hit x.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:10 am 


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The Times seems to have learned the economic power of trolling for hate-clicks.

See: Bari Weiss
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:44 am 


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So when are bitcoins going to finally hit their true value, $0 a coin? As a sane person, I'm not able to accurately track the procession of insanity... I do get a chuckle out of all the articles written by greedy assholes trying to cut losses by influencing idiots to inflate the price, I guess.... but it's really long past time for it to join Beanie Babies and MySpace in the graveyard.

Good news for people looking to buy a GPU to use as an actual GPU, though. How are those chipsets meant for raytracing coming along? Any upcoming games or 3d (true 3d, not sterovision) movies coming soon that use it? Seems like it's about the time for another big benchmark game like Crysis was back in the day.


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