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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Andrew Yang 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Kamala Harris 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren 6%  6%  [ 3 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 8%  8%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Donald Trump 34%  34%  [ 18 ]
Tulsi Gabbard 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 38%  38%  [ 20 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 53
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 am 


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Remember when people on Free Republic were bitching about Return of the Jedi and how it was propaganda to convince us to surrender to the Viet Cong?

Makes you think.

ED-057 wrote:
Group cohesion never was a big thing in the US and it ain't getting any better with plutocrats in charge. It's fine to be concerned about immigration but maybe if we could muster some support for raising George Soros's taxes, he wouldn't have so much extra money to spend on his Open Society junk, eh?


Yeah it's a dodge and a hussle. There's all these comments that imply spending money on immigrant's kids makes it so that there's less money for the rest of us. Which, to anyone with three functioning brain cells, knows is hilarious bullshit. We have infinite amounts of money for the things we want - tax cuts for billionaires, a raise for the military industrial complex, private for-profit prisons where people are hoarded for profit like farm animals... but buying little Billy or José a sandwich is impossible because we don't have the money. Right.

We're the richest empire in the history of the planet, and all that.

And nowadays we have Mr.Reagan talking about shooting kids at the border. Which is the moral equivalent of hunting down someone who overstays their visa and slitting their throat in their sleep with a steak knife. And if that's not "racist" or "something a nazi would think was a cool thing to do", nothing is.

Quote:
You just mocked "communist" Bernie supporters in the same post.


Why would communist welfare queen Rob hate Bernie? Bernie brings us unity and group cohesion under labor. Is he one of those asshole communists that won't let other people own their own oil, water, ore, and air? He's got his gigantic welfare check so no one else is allowed to get theirs?

I guess this is who those "NAZI COMMUNISTS" we heard about, were all along. Makes you wonder.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:23 am 


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Wow, Trump REALLY wanted his State of the Union pageant.

Way to show your mastery of the Art of the Deal there, Donnie!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:20 am 


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ED-057 wrote:
There seems to be a lot of overlap between people opposed to immigration and opposed to socialism

I know.

Quote:
Group cohesion never was a big thing in the US

I think you're underestimating what was required to take the bulk of a continent and build a country (or "the richest empire in the history of the planet") from scratch on top of it, and the stress placed on assimilation prior to very recent American history. A mistake was believing anyone could or would want to assimilate.

Theodore Roosevelt wrote:
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic ... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.


Woodrow Wilson wrote:
Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:42 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Bernie brings us unity and group cohesion under labor.

Hear hear, comrade.

Sanders: White people don't know life in a ghetto

"When you are white you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto, you don't know what it's like to be poor, you don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street, or you get dragged out of a car."

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The kind of propaganda we can see from the modern American left would make the Soviets very proud.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:04 am 


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Davos. Economic Forum. The Illuminati just had another one of those self flagellating meet ups where the 300 people who control the world get together and talk about how great they all are. From fascists to wispy wraiths, they're all there.

It's nice hearing Bill Gates talk about how great it is he has most of the money but would like to have all of the money.

Is there really any point of these things besides propaganda? Is it like those celebrity award shows where they hand out a trophy to some famous millionaire? Like how grade schools give kids a trophy periodically?

Are our zillionaires being pampered enough? They'll get cranky if they're not made to burp before they go to bed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:21 pm 


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Rob, you're not doing a very good job of demonstrating the superior intelligence of whites if that's your interpretation of that quote.

Then again, Bernie Sanders is Jew, and Jews consistently score the highest on IQ tests, the objective rubric of human value in your world model.

Maybe you should stop being so uppity toward Bernie and respect that your simple monkey brain can't fully grasp the reasoning behind his policy goals, and you should defer to your genetic superiors.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:38 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
if that's your interpretation of that quote.

Your desire for an alternative interpretation is noted. What I see is a series of straightforward and verifiably false claims that follow an established "white privilege" narrative, which would not be in the rhetorical arsenal of any kind of unifier, or any decent person who is in touch with reality.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

"Racial justice" is the core of the modern left's platform and Bernie is no different. Everything takes a back seat to "racial justice", and the above makes it clear what that is, who is included and who isn't.

MM wrote:
Then again, Bernie Sanders is Jew, and Jews consistently score the highest on IQ tests,

I would guess that he's not an outstanding specimen.

MM wrote:
the objective rubric of human value in your world model.

No. It explains differences in group outcomes, something liberals are very concerned about (see "racial justice" above), much better than the "systemic oppression" conspiracy theory propagated by people like Bernie Sanders, which says that the primary reason any lagging group is lagging is because white people are consciously or (even more impossible to dis/prove) unconsciously evil. You would have to be evil to prevent someone from succeeding, so it makes sense for the people who are accused of being evil to want to talk about the far more likely (backed by mountains of data) explanation.

MM wrote:
grasp the reasoning behind his policy goals

I can only imagine.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:14 am 


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Yes yes, you love Goldman Sachs and are no different from a hillaryman we all know.

Thank you someone else please speak up about anything so we don't have to continue to be trapped in this sisyphean Garfield-esque hell. It doesn't matter if it's irrelevant to other humans, topics like bitching about how your number of socks don't match up with your underwear is fine.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:16 am 


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Koch Network to Push for Legal Status for Dreamers in 2019

Imagine believing that you're rallying against the 1% while unwittingly doing their bidding.

Can you explain to me how infinite immigration into high consumption America is good for the climate, or the ever-expanding low skill labor pool for low skill laborers already here? But "racial justice".


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:10 am 


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Quote:
I think you're underestimating what was required to take the bulk of a continent and build a country (or "the richest empire in the history of the planet") from scratch on top of it, and the stress placed on assimilation prior to very recent American history. A mistake was believing anyone could or would want to assimilate.

Perhaps. But if assimilation was a priority, how does that explain Jim Crow?

As for "building" the country, there was a thing called the Homestead Act. The government handed out land to anybody that could qualify, sort of like what Russia is doing right now in Siberia, except the continental US is mostly a bit more hospitable as far as climate.
Quote:
Sanders: White people don't know life in a ghetto

"When you are white you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto, you don't know what it's like to be poor, you don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street, or you get dragged out of a car."

Back in 2016 Bernie had to endure some "outrage" that resulted from his response to BLM activists of "all lives matter". After that experience maybe he has stepped up his pandering game.
Quote:
Can you explain to me how infinite immigration into high consumption America is good for the climate, or the ever-expanding low skill labor pool for low skill laborers already here? But "racial justice".

I don't think it is. Taking in large numbers of people from disfunctional countries (which describes Europe more than the US lately) also has an element of moral hazard associated with it. It reduces the incentive for policy makers in those countries to get their shit together. Of course they won't be able to anyway when our imperialistic mischief is causing further destabilization.

There was a report that someone who arrived at the US-Mexico border with the migrant caravan asked for reparations for the US supporting the coup government in Honduras. Bold move, but I didn't hear anything more about it.

Even without immigration though, racial justice would still be an issue for people already here (overly hyped or not).


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 am 


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Yeah that stop-motion Garfield doll dancing gets to me every time. Creepy shit.

Playing Universal Paperclips brought up again how much theoretical AI agents have to shed on human behavior.

The "value drift" the deployed probes acquire is similar to those who reject society's mission of putting everything in servitude of capital. I don't fucking care about paperclips, no matter how much the drones have it embedded in their firmware at childhood say I have to.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:01 pm 


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Meanwhile, Trump's own golf courses have been a clear case of dey took er jerbs for almost a decade because somehow E-verify is an unknown thing there:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 56a1a68f2e

Mind you, the firings only took place until a couple weeks ago. ("B-b-b-but Hillary! The democrats want open borders! Uranium one! Fake news! No collusion! Dey been tekin' edventege ef es! Protec er jerbs! Bezos is a poo-poo head!")
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:46 am 


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ED-057 wrote:
Taking in large numbers of people from disfunctional countries...


It's spelled "dysfunctional," Mr. Perfect Human Specimen.
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The oligarch grabs nine cookies for himself then says to the white dude, "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:22 am 


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Trump says he wants global warming to "come back fast". It's not gone anywhere, but it may not be the good thing he'd like to see it as. Sudden stratospheric warming has busted the polar vortex again causing sub-zero wind chills, like it did in 2014. Might Trump's dear global warming actually be to blame?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:26 am 


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The lethal heat waves in Australia are always a gas to hear about.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:57 pm 


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Preach, brothers!

12 years to Armageddon!

Evangelist, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, knows de way!

Could you fella's hook a brother up and tell me, is it anthropogenic, warming/cooling, or just "change" this time?
Ta!

https://youtu.be/KmtttE3u1g0
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:57 am 


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There should be a law that says white men can't make more money than a woman who fell over the fence fifteen years ago and still can't speak English.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:01 am 


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Maybe they should all move to Alaska and get on that welfare like you're on.

For us grown ups, we understand the wage gap comes from the fact that capitalists make orders of magnitude more money than wage cucks. And that capitalist wives don't have to pretend to work, unlike their jobless parasite husbands. If their wives were the ones who tended to inherit their family's capital, then the gap would be in the other direction.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:09 pm 


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Rob wrote:
There should be a law that says white men can't make more money than a woman who fell over the fence fifteen years ago and still can't speak English.

Posts like this are why it's utterly impossible to take indignant loudmouths like you the least bit seriously.

There is at least one very legitimate gripe with the numbers Bernie posted - or, more accurately, with the way they're presented - and figures on the left constantly screw it up, but that's never what the nativists, chauvinists and other MAGA troglodytes actually want to discuss, all they ever screech about is how this proves yet again that everything is part of a global Jewish conspiracy to destroy white males or some shit. :lol:

By the by, yes, I have posted previously about this very statistic on this forum - more than once, if memory serves - but I might as well be talking to a (big beautiful) wall, because even this sort of "moderate" discussion that openly acknowledges the faults being advanced by one's own side of an argument, the stuff that the alt-lite so insistently pines for as an alternative to the "radicalized left" (universal health care like the rest of the world already has, gets better results from and pays less for than we do! You Stalinist monsters! :lol:) is inevitably ignored in favor of being able to lay low for a bit after a point is made and then go right back to posting the same brain-dead memes the point refuted.

Fact of the matter is, if both the approach and proposed solution to any problem do not revolve around the maxim of "keep treating other people like shit", you just plain aren't interested and, to all indications, never will be. Troll harder.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 7:54 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
There is at least one very legitimate gripe with the numbers Bernie posted - or, more accurately, with the way they're presented -

I agree that there is a legitimate gripe with the way the figures were chosen and presented. Why don't you tell us what your one legitimate gripe is?

There is nothing surprising about the raw figures on the list - in a diverse society you will get diverse outcomes. The difference between Asian women and Latina women is predictably far greater than the difference between white men and Asian women, but his focus is the (white) man vs. all women. There is also nothing surprising about his arbitrary usage of "white men" as his benchmark, instead of higher or lower (since the professed purpose is to highlight the disparity between men and women) earning male groups. If someone consistently makes white people or white men the symbols of "privilege" or "unfair advantage", even when the facts don't support the claim, they are explicitly targeting those groups for a tearing down. There is nothing accidental or innocent about that language.

BryanM wrote:
we understand the wage gap comes from the fact that capitalists make orders of magnitude more money than wage cucks. And that capitalist wives don't have to pretend to work, unlike their jobless parasite husbands. If their wives were the ones who tended to inherit their family's capital, then the gap would be in the other direction.

I'm amazed that you typed any of this thinking that it made perfect sense. You are a cartoon.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:12 pm 


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Zen wrote:
is it anthropogenic, warming/cooling, or just "change" this time

Whatever anyone wants to call it, it finally has an appropriate origin story. :o

European colonizers killed so many Native Americans that it changed the global climate, researchers say

Quote:
Before this study, some scientists had argued the temperature change in the 1600s, called the Little Ice Age, was caused only by natural forces.

But by combining archaeological evidence, historical data and analysis of carbon found in Antarctic ice, the UCL researchers showed how the reforestation -- directly caused by the Europeans' arrival -- was a key component of the global chill, they said.

"For once, we've been able to balance all the boxes and realize that the only way the Little Ice Age was so intense is ... because of the genocide of millions of people," Maslin told CNN.

Well that's that.

Quote:
European settlers killed 56 million indigenous people

Quote:
European epidemics removed 90% (IQR 87–92%) of the indigenous population over the next century.

If you follow the link CNN provides for the line above ("European settlers killed"), we find the line below. I'm curious if BulletMagnet recognizes the distortion of facts here.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:29 pm 


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Rob wrote:
BulletMagnet wrote:
There is at least one very legitimate gripe with the numbers Bernie posted - or, more accurately, with the way they're presented -

I agree that there is a legitimate gripe with the way the figures were chosen and presented. Why don't you tell us what your one legitimate gripe is?

There is nothing surprising about the raw figures on the list - in a diverse society you will get diverse outcomes. The difference between Asian women and Latina women is predictably far greater than the difference between white men and Asian women, but his focus is the (white) man vs. all women. There is also nothing surprising about his arbitrary usage of "white men" as his benchmark, instead of higher or lower (since the professed purpose is to highlight the disparity between men and women) earning male groups. If someone consistently makes white people or white men the symbols of "privilege" or "unfair advantage", even when the facts don't support the claim, they are explicitly targeting those groups for a tearing down. There is nothing accidental or innocent about that language.

BryanM wrote:
we understand the wage gap comes from the fact that capitalists make orders of magnitude more money than wage cucks. And that capitalist wives don't have to pretend to work, unlike their jobless parasite husbands. If their wives were the ones who tended to inherit their family's capital, then the gap would be in the other direction.

I'm amazed that you typed any of this thinking that it made perfect sense. You are a cartoon.


An utter farce is what it is. If you take the figures at face value.

No right minded person would publicly admit that they believe equally qualified, equally skilled people working substantially identical job positions should be paid differently based on their perceived ethnicity.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:59 pm 


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Yeah, and wage opaqueness only serves Mr.Burns. It's kind of incredible how much of our culture he controls. The brain washing of their farm animals is similar to wife husbandry.

Got reminded of the Clinton campaign's "inevitable" strategy today, and how much they were paid to do everything in their power to help Trump win. Does.... does anyone have one example of that campaign doing... anything correctly? "Correctly" defined as increasing the probability that Clinton would win.

Quote:
then go right back to posting the same brain-dead memes


It is slightly interesting from a orthogonal perspective, but yeah. Like I said twelve years ago, terminal goals differ and you can't is-ought someone out of a terminal goal.

It does get annoying whenever they say one of their memes like the classic "we could have a good protective welfare state if people like me weren't so racist!" and it's like... yeah.... sure..... because one of your goals is expanding welfare, even if it goes into your pocket.... uh huh.....

It'd never happen. Get rid of all the foreigners, it'd just go back to protestants versus catholics or atheist hunting. Most likely, more focus on guns versus the imaginary gun grabbers. Some holy symbol the electoral majority likes, as all (successful) identity politics must operate off of.

The only thing that really gives me hope is that they at least understand they can't outright remove Social Security and Medicare and the minimum wage, the largest general welfare programs we have. Their slow bleed hurts, but the kids today understand it's just another thing the generation before them had that they're trying to take away.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:11 am 


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theclaw wrote:
equally qualified, equally skilled people working substantially identical job positions

Yes, you are expected to fill in these details and you did just that. Can you tell me why it would make sense for a no-good capitalist to grant an Asian woman more money than an equally qualified and equally skilled black woman? This doesn't happen. Are you familiar with stats on academic achievement in this country, or the world?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:35 pm 


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It could be due to subconscious bias that causes them to think less of the latter's qualifications even if they're similar. These personal biases aren't always expressed as overt racism, but learned behavior/thought patterns that aren't easily noticed (even by the person who is acting on them!).
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:20 pm 


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I think Rob's point, was that a "no-good capitalist" would have no bias beyond worth and would, given the choice, prefer to pay both a low wage :wink:
Thereby showing, that pay is related to productivity, not bias.

Are you suggesting bias, as the explanation for Academic, or perhaps even Crime statistic disparity also, or just limiting it to Race and pay?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:15 pm 


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Racial and gender bias are the primary ones for employment, but there are others for other circumstances. Academic and crime statistic disparity are primarily built upon income disparity and systemic racism (which fuels the former, going back to employment, go figure that).

Of course a "dirty" capitalist will try to pay the lowest possible, but due to those not facing biases having more options, they are more capable to say no to a low-ball. Thus someone without any commonly biased-against traits have more bargaining power, and that alone can give them a leg up in compensation.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:29 pm 


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That thing Sanders got arrested for complaining about is just one of thousands of examples. They put a bunch of black kids into a shipping crate next to the train tracks as their school. Basically cutting them off from the rest of the population and making sure they're at the bottom of society and stay there for the rest of their lives.

Everyone who isn't a liar or an invalid understands putting a boot on someone's neck and taking their stuff is going to make the robbed person less well off. So let's move on.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:41 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Racial and gender bias are the primary ones for employment, but there are others for other circumstances. Academic and crime statistic disparity are primarily built upon income disparity and systemic racism (which fuels the former, going back to employment, go figure that).
That's rather the chicken and the egg argument, is it not?
If this is indeed, a nurture and not a nature issue, how do you suppose all of these unfounded biases began?

trap15 wrote:
Of course a "dirty" capitalist will try to pay the lowest possible, but due to those not facing biases having more options, they are more capable to say no to a low-ball. Thus someone without any commonly biased-against traits have more bargaining power, and that alone can give them a leg up in compensation.
Agreed.

BryanM wrote:
Everyone who isn't a liar or an invalid understands putting a boot on someone's neck and taking their stuff is going to make the robbed person less well off. So let's move on.
Oh Relax, BryanM.
I won't spoil The Party Thread . . . much.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:38 pm 


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Zen wrote:
If this is indeed, a nurture and not a nature issue, how do you suppose all of these unfounded biases began?

Racism and fear of change.

EDIT: To elaborate, fear of other tribes was (maybe) a useful trait a long time ago. That is still in some people's natures (which is what I mean about subconscious bias), but also the mentality can spread to those without that nature via those. Which is why I'm not insane enough to think racism will ever go away, and why I believe intentionally giving historically discriminated people a leg up is useful.
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