Prelude to the Apocalypse

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Iran War. When.

2021
3
6%
2022-2025
15
28%
2026-2030
7
13%
2031-2040
3
6%
2041-2050
0
No votes
Never
25
47%
 
Total votes: 53

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BryanM
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BryanM »

The obsession with "crime" does belie they just want to kick somebody's ass and everything else is just post-hoc excuses.

This video of a crazy lady is a typical example of displaced rage.

We'd be living in a paradise if they could direct that anger upward at Mr.Burns, but I guess it's far easier to punch downward. "Taxes are theft, but rent never is." Uh huh ok boomer.

Feel bad for the zoomies, who are innocent of our sins. They're really the first generation to be free of TV's brainwashing.

Just imagine growing up without TV being the majority of your life. What blessed creatures, they are.
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Sengoku Strider
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BryanM wrote:Feel bad for the zoomies, who are innocent of our sins. They're really the first generation to be free of TV's brainwashing.

Just imagine growing up without TV being the majority of your life. What blessed creatures, they are.
But replaced with Tiktok & Instagram. Which for a lot of kids I'm sure is like having their bullies digitally surveil them around the clock. Then the rest of the time feeling anxiety about not being performatively cool, popular or happy enough. Then getting red-pilled by a Joe Rogan video and ending up in some kind of meme-centric Taliban.

All I had to deal with was endless crummy Frasier reruns when my mom couldn't find Seinfeld.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BulletMagnet »

Hoagtech wrote:And there you go stereotyping me into a political party without my consent. If you want to know how I voted you can just ask like a rude gentleman.
Adorable, but I must say, the "I and other people crossed party lines once, and we were all morons" anecdote made it rather clear just how much of an "independent" we're dealing with here...y'know, if the whole "if you willingly pay taxes you must enjoy being raped" thing didn't give it away. :lol:
You keep fighting that war on fascism
If by that you mean "only vote for people and/or parties who accept election results even when they lose", yeah, I do intend to keep doing that; insufferable bleeding heart that I am, a willingness - if not eagerness - to curb-stomp democracy the moment it becomes the least bit inconvenient is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And the fact that you scurried away like a roach under a kitchen light every time I attempted to engage you on the topic - or your insistence on blaming justice reform for rising crime in spite of hard evidence to the contrary, or anything you just plain didn't so much as attempt to explain, let alone justify - should have told me from the outset just how genuine your half of this "conversation" would ever turn out to be.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Hoagtech »

BulletMagnet wrote:
blaming justice reform for rising crime in spite of hard evidence to the contrary
Please do divulge on this "contrary"..
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BulletMagnet »

I linked to a lengthy study in literally the first reply I made to you at the beginning of the week; seriously, what the hell did you think I've been repeatedly referring to this entire time? :roll: Looking forward to hearing why you didn't even bother to click the link because it's obviously a hoax and I'm a total fucking cuck for even taking it into consideration when determining my view of the issue. Because I'm being "crime groomed". :lol:

EDIT: In unrelated news, across the pond a fine example of what truly motivates hatred of one's own country.
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Rob
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Rob »

From the article cited:
While researchers have begun to identify some of the factors that may have contributed to this upward trend, it is far too soon to say with certainty why crime rose over the last two years. This uncertainty itself should guide our understanding of crime trends today. It underscores the danger of jumping to conclusions — such as blaming specific, often newly implemented, policies.
More than six months into 2022, national-level data on crime in 2021 remains unavailable. This is due in part to a transition in the way the government collects crime data. Indeed, because of this transition, reliable government data on crime trends in 2021 may never be available for some states and even many large cities.
The "lengthy study" says that we shouldn't jump to conclusions and that we don't have "reliable government data" for crime post-2020, but it's the anti-mass incarceration Brennan Center so what we can know about any increase in crime in 2020 and beyond can't be due to any policies that reduce incarceration.

A simple to understand reality is that less crimes will be committed if you put people who commit crimes behind bars and leave them there, as unfair as that might seem.
Another recent policy brief by Third Way, a center-left think tank, points to relatively high rates of violence in “red” states — underscoring the truly national nature of the 2020 crime increase and the lack of a clear relationship with specific policies.
The "hard evidence" that the crime spike can't be linked to specific policies is that "red" states (like Mississippi) also saw increases in violent crime. It's national therefore not blue or red, as if there were no national (social and political) trends around 2020 to explain even a fraction of anything.

Pandemic inspires new push to shrink jails and prisons
Nationwide, jail populations plunged by about 25% between March and June [2020], according to an analysis by the nonprofit Vera Institute of Justice. New York City and Franklin county both managed reductions of 30% in their jails, which primarily hold people charged with crimes but not yet convicted. Populations of prisons, which hold people serving sentences after a conviction, budged much less; an analysis by the Marshall Project and the Associated Press found an 8% decrease nationwide during that period.

The result is a major experiment in public health and criminal justice.
Does anyone remember this "experiment"? The media and politicians created a situation in 2020 where covid, race (with nonstop pre-2020 election race war propaganda) and policing all tied together perfectly, and of course that had nationwide effects that summer and beyond that didn't begin and end at county lines.
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BryanM
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BryanM »

Sengoku Strider wrote:But replaced with Tiktok & Instagram. Which for a lot of kids I'm sure is like having their bullies digitally surveil them around the clock. Then the rest of the time feeling anxiety about not being performatively cool, popular or happy enough. Then getting red-pilled by a Joe Rogan video and ending up in some kind of meme-centric Taliban.

All I had to deal with was endless crummy Frasier reruns when my mom couldn't find Seinfeld.
It's easy to caricature what other people use these things for, being old farts outside looking in. We usually only ever think about these things when some horror story involving murder and suicide get involved. I submit, it's a warped view, mostly.

Yeah, there are weirdos like the chapo guys who use it to doom scroll and find people to have pithy unfulfilling internet fights with. And the taliban guys posting their hate memes, sure. But they themselves admit they're broken people. At least, the honest ones.

The average teen is most likely just following musicians, authors, celebs etc that they like. Bulk of the internet time being spent on youtube, twitch, playing games, watching movies, etc. A culture of isolation is its biggest threat, and maybe that's a blessing.

TV on the other hand, only doles out pablum to be happy with the status quo and to hate anyone who wants to change it. The internet at least gives the kids a chance to organize and fight back with something.

Remember the "resistance" back then was to fight Reaganism with... Clintonism. As shit as things are and will be, they'd be so much worse if we didn't have the internet.
BulletMagnet wrote:EDIT: In unrelated news, across the pond a fine example of what truly motivates hatred of one's own country.
Gay marriage is one of those other things that the culture flipped on, on a dime. I remember sitting in a dining facility in ~2005ish and a bro remarking it was very unlikely to happen because of the "tons" of people against it.

Fast forward to now and it's only the fasciest of the fascists that give a shit against it anymore. That wasn't long ago at all, just the passing of an afternoon.
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orange808
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by orange808 »

Don't complain to me about gun violence. Market theory is not ambiguous about guns. For instance, guns are not subject to extreme market failures; an example of a problematic product is health care. Guns are a physical commodity and they have few idiosyncrasies in the market.

So, that means guns obey the established norms of a market. We are increasing supply every single day. It follows that guns will be more available at all prices. This is absolute. If you're a big believer in free markets, you're a shithead if you randomly pretend the market doesn't exist for convenience (when we discuss guns).

We are making guns more and more available every single day.

Here's your "experiment". We are giving a huge percentage of the population access to guns that haven't had guns in the past. Similar demographics in the past didn't have this kind of access. What will all these people do with their guns? There's your experiment. Is everyone really up to the responsibility of owning a gun?
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Hoagtech
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Hoagtech »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:And there you go stereotyping me into a political party without my consent. If you want to know how I voted you can just ask like a rude gentleman.
Adorable, but I must say, the "I and other people crossed party lines once, and we were all morons" anecdote made it rather clear just how much of an "independent" we're dealing with here...y'know, if the whole "if you willingly pay taxes you must enjoy being raped" thing didn't give it away. :lol:
You keep fighting that war on fascism
If by that you mean "only vote for people and/or parties who accept election results even when they lose", yeah, I do intend to keep doing that; insufferable bleeding heart that I am, a willingness - if not eagerness - to curb-stomp democracy the moment it becomes the least bit inconvenient is kind of a dealbreaker for me. And the fact that you scurried away like a roach under a kitchen light every time I attempted to engage you on the topic - or your insistence on blaming justice reform for rising crime in spite of hard evidence to the contrary, or anything you just plain didn't so much as attempt to explain, let alone justify - should have told me from the outset just how genuine your half of this "conversation" would ever turn out to be.
Wow. I expected you to be a sheep but surely someone can’t be THIS naïve?

This is exactly the kind of non sensical opinion ball articles that create warm liberal farts like your self. The danger in them is that if you cant see the problems for what they are. They are never going to be solved. Radical changes COULD lead to a few changes for the good, but when they flop. You have to know when to take a business model behind the shed and put it out of its misery.

The article states like recent trending Lib excuses that it is not a Dem location but resides in red states too right? Lets pull up a voting demographic to get some insight.

Guess which Counties have the highest increase in crime in this red state?

Image

And the warm fart feel good article also pinpoints "Violent crimes" and not the sectors of crime with highest increases (Shoplifting, Vehicle prowl, Vehicle theft,) Very clever housewife article..

Your basically the opposite of the extreme right wing posting Epoch times articles right now.

Even our own Governor is trying his damndest to increase police hiring due to the force quitting in waves after their powers were stripped due to BLM on the other side of the USA along with the mandates.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... on-police/

I feel embarrassed for you right now. If your that easy to sway. I got some Gord stocks to sell you..

At this point you moved away from media parrot to pigeon in this "parrot cage"

One with some DD MSNBC BoobTube boobies at that..

Image
Last edited by Hoagtech on Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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BulletMagnet
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BulletMagnet »

Rob wrote:The "lengthy study" says that we shouldn't jump to conclusions and that we don't have "reliable government data" for crime post-2020, but it's the anti-mass incarceration Brennan Center so what we can know about any increase in crime in 2020 and beyond can't be due to any policies that reduce incarceration.
Another way to interpret the study's tone, if you're willing to be that charitable, is that the authors are trying not to oversell their findings, and that their point is not that criminal justice reform has been delivering on all of its promises, but rather that the data we have doesn't appear to implicate it in the recent rise in crime rates. Compare that to this writeup which apparently informed Hoagtech's (eventual) response to my query, which, whatever nuggets of genuine interest it might contain (which is inherently incomplete, as there's no way therein to directly compare the highlighted "blue" areas to the "red" ones...and even taken at face value, when you get past the commentary and look at the actual numbers, they frankly aren't nearly as dramatic as they're hyped to be), reads like an op-ed article ("Soros"..."rogue prosecutor"...Bingo!), and is very clearly aimed at riling up readers who have already made up their minds.
Does anyone remember this "experiment"?
I'd be curious if anyone ever did a side-by-side comparison of the specific responses to crowded jails during Covid's height undertaken by red states and municipalities versus blue ones; I highly doubt their approaches matched each other very closely, "trend" or not, especially considering how many of the former pitched such an absolute fit at something so simple as slapping a mask on, let alone the notion of holding fewer criminals in custody. Moreover, the article you link notes that the most likely overarching factor is...
Nationwide, the population drop in jails reflected a drop-off in arrests—likely because fewer crimes were committed during lockdowns and law enforcement officers aimed to avoid unnecessary physical contact, says Michael Jacobson, a sociologist at the City University of New York who has analyzed data on crime and policing in 50 cities.
Again, though, all of this is a sideshow to my larger point: even if you insist on making the recent rise in crime rates the issue to vote on (which I'd frankly call rather rash, but that's neither here nor there), the notion that it's solely or even primarily the fault of criminal justice reform efforts is, by any measure you care to apply, hardly an open-and-shut case, which prompts the question, is it really worth voting in out-and-proud authoritarians over? Considering the responses I've been getting across the board, particularly along the lines of...
A simple to understand reality is that less crimes will be committed if you put people who commit crimes behind bars and leave them there, as unfair as that might seem.
...which itself flies in the face of the data, in addition to variations on the same "white genocide" claptrap you've been spouting for years now ("race war propaganda?" Could you possibly project any harder? :lol:), I find it difficult to reach any conclusion other than folks like yourself aren't voting in authoritarians because of some misguided obsession with crime rates, or anything else for that matter, but because you want to vote in authoritarians.
Hoagtech wrote:You have to know when to take a business model behind the shed and put it out of its misery.
That's the thing, we don't know what has driven the rise in crime rates, even those against abandoning criminal justice reform say so. But again, you make it clearer with every post that your actual motivations have nothing to do with the topic at hand in the first place.

And, as per that (now edited) image, classy as ever. :roll:
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Mischief Maker
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Mischief Maker »

I'm reminded of those studies that found conservative brains are shaped differently from normal people's; with overdeveloped amygdalas, the fear center.

Not surprising considering how much time they devote to looking up crime statistics to frighten themselves, like campfire ghost stories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq4UHWSTdO8
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by GaijinPunch »

Tucker Carlson's only around b/c they can use his brow to replace the landing strip of an air craft carrier in the event any are destroyed in any international incidences.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by orange808 »

Mez wantz the policez, butz I dontz wantz to payz no'z taxez or pensionz forz the policez. Stopz the crimez forz freez. Unionz and taxez arez evilz. :mrgreen:

Defundz thez policez, so peoplez takez the jobz as a lastz resortz, forz no payz, and theyz overwhelmedz and outnumberedz. That'll fix it. :mrgreen:

Your all so-oooo smart!
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BryanM
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BryanM »

It does seem logical that if you want something, it has to be paid for yeah.
Mischief Maker wrote:I'm reminded of those studies that found conservative brains are shaped differently from normal people's; with overdeveloped amygdalas, the fear center.
It was only after watching a recent Thought Slime video that I realized I had ADHD. It had never occurred to me since it's associated with "dum-dum's who can't learn" in our society.

I look at someone able to stand at a cash register all day as some kind of super-human alien god who deserves all the money for being able to perform such an exceptional feat. They look at the same person and think they deserve none of the money. It's hard to believe we're the same animal.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

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Rob
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Rob »

BulletMagnet wrote:...which itself flies in the face of the data,
This a paper from a "B.A. Candidate" who is now the operations manager for the Modesto Nuts - is this the most authoritative piece of research you can find? Anyways,
Implementation of the three strikes law in California served as a fairly regressive move across the board, however some claim a 20% reduction in crime due to the law’s deterrent effects, however this is a hard figure to estimate.
...
The efficacy of increasing incarceration efforts in order to incapacitate the most criminals possible is still disputed. Scholars still argue on whether an increase of incarceration has a notable effect on crime rates (Mears et al., 2016).
The author has nothing definitive or convincing to say in refutation of incarceration reducing crime, but you're presenting it as if it does (maybe because you've confused overall crime rates and rates of recidivism).
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BulletMagnet »

Rob wrote:The author has nothing definitive or convincing to say in refutation of incarceration reducing crime, but you're presenting it as if it does (maybe because you've confused overall crime rates and rates of recidivism).
The only way anyone could claim to consider the likelihood of the formerly-incarcerated to commit additional crimes as completely unrelated to crime overall is if they're in favor of never releasing any offender from prison, ever. Which hopefully you aren't.
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Hoagtech
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Hoagtech »

Rob wrote: This a paper from a "B.A. Candidate" who is now the operations manager for the Modesto Nuts - is this the most authoritative piece of research you can find? Anyways,

The author has nothing definitive or convincing to say in refutation of incarceration reducing crime, but you're presenting it as if it does (maybe because you've confused overall crime rates and rates of recidivism).
The problem is your referencing statistics in your local municipalities. You should be gathering "hard evidence" from more concrete sources like "she Tucker"

Image

BulletMagnet wrote: if they're in favor of never releasing any offender from prison, ever. Which hopefully you aren't.
Don't you think that all crimes and criminals aren't created equal? With this logic. There would be no criminals with rap sheets.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BulletMagnet »

Hoagtech wrote:Don't you think that all crimes and criminals aren't created equal? With this logic. There would be no criminals with rap sheets.
...what Rob said was "your reference is talking about ex-prisoners committing more crimes after being released, while I'm talking about the fact that they can't commit crimes at all while they're behind bars in the first place." The thing is, the resulting presumed drop in the crime rate under Rob's scenario only happens if they throw every single criminal behind bars (weren't you the one criticizing another source I cited for only focusing on violent crime?) and then never let them out. Which, like so much else about this exchange, is both debased and ridiculous.

...and of course, you've once again covered your eyes and ears when it comes to the entire reason I bothered posting here prior to Election Day in the first place, namely that, whatever your stated motives (which become more difficult to take seriously with every post you make), you're voting for outright authoritarians, and are expressing zero misgivings about it. Sorry, but you refusing to own up to it doesn't mean the rest of us automatically have to stop talking about it. Though seeing as you appear to have no problem with inconvenient other people being unilaterally shut out of the political process altogether, it probably should preclude us from bothering to talk to you at all until you grow the hell up.
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Mischief Maker
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Mischief Maker »

Scary crime statistics
Image
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Rob
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Rob »

Mischief Maker wrote:I'm reminded of those studies that found conservative brains are shaped differently from normal people's; with overdeveloped amygdalas, the fear center.
This is tabloid tier pseudoscience. Climate change will end the world, fascism is lurking around every corner, the latest disease/variant is going to kill you, etc. Most politics obsessed people seem very motivated and controlled by a collection of overblown fears. Wanting a safe city to live and work in is such a comparatively basic desire that even Democrats want it.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Air Master Burst »

If we just make being poor a crime we can get rid of homelessness and unemployment in record time, and the influx of cheap prison labor should boost the economy nicely.

All it takes is the right labels, because thinking of them as actual people is really inconvenient.
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BryanM
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

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Air Master Burst wrote:the influx of cheap prison labor should boost the economy nicely.
Slavery is actually the opposite of that. The south was a destitute hellhole for pretty much everyone but the aristocracy.

Thankfully we've mostly packed that away behind closed doors, much like the soap and meat patty box packers that don't exist in the outside world. It reminds me of Fred's example of the difference between how ports unpacked a ship in the south versus the north: In the south they just threw people at the problem. The north, they used a couple of guys and an ox.

Forcing them into having an incentive to replace people with robots is probably for the best by orders of magnitude. I'm sure I'll be saying the same thing when their killbots are culling the population for their breeding dungeons or whatever.

Three words to make anyone shiver: "Wyatt's breeding dungeon."
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Air Master Burst »

BryanM wrote:Slavery is actually the opposite of that. The south was a destitute hellhole for pretty much everyone but the aristocracy.
So then, just business as usual for the US.

ETA: for any non-americans it helps to understand that in this country "the economy" basically always just refers to the profit margins of large companies and their investors, and is pretty much always conflated with the stock market.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Sengoku Strider »

Hoagtech wrote:You should be gathering "hard evidence" from more concrete sources like "she Tucker"
Not that I think anyone here cares what Rachel Maddow says or thinks, but there is no way mr microwaved testicles is man enough to draw comparisons to her.

Image Image

I am only willing to believe one of these people would win in a fight against a block of wood.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by Hoagtech »

Sengoku Strider wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:You should be gathering "hard evidence" from more concrete sources like "she Tucker"
Not that I think anyone here cares what Rachel Maddow says or thinks, but there is no way mr microwaved testicles is man enough to draw comparisons to her.

Image Image

I am only willing to believe one of these people would win in a fight against a block of wood.
I think your plaid comparison is pretty funny

Although I did want you notice that stance Maddow is chopping with.

You’re supposed to hold the ax above your shoulder. Something about her standing up straight with the axe above her head makes me think this is the first time she has chopped wood in her life lol.

Take a second look.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by orange808 »

I'd try to split those big stumps with a wedge, instead of killing my back (literally) sticking that axe into the wood. But, you do you.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BryanM »

"Give'em the death penalty for selling drugs."

At least some people are honest, sometimes, for a change >_<

So I was reading up on that 'ole Action Park thing. You know it from that park with the tube waterslide with the loop in the middle? They tossed test dummies down it and they'd fall apart?

I feel like one of these words in this sentence is incorrect: "At least six people are known to have died as a result of mishaps on rides at the original park. Despite this, the park was very popular and attracted thrill-seekers from across the New York metropolitan area." Despite should be changed to Because of.

I think the owner did actually have a very good philosophy: he didn't want his rides to be the same on-rails baby shit you get everywhere else. He wanted his guests to be able to control the action, like with skiing.

I completely understand loathing being kept on rails all the time, but maybe not murdering people is an ok rail to have. I think it's a pretty cool and good rail, at least.
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BIL »

There's an okay-ish recent Netflix documentary on Action Park, which I'd only known of by osmosis via Steve Albini and co. Gives the broad strokes, with decent insight on the scumbag owner and his various antics (the park was hardly the only one) - but also includes a lot of smug smarm for some reason, with gurning z-listers shit-eatingly guffawing at all the kids breaking legs and getting gashed by exposed rebars and such. "Our park was for tough kids!" says one guy looking for all the world like Tom Hanks in Philadelphia. Cool, tough out getting your skull caved in or your throat slashed from ear to ear, you insufferable soft as shite twiglet.

You'd think it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek but it really doesn't come off that way, just by turns callous and bizarrely celebratory. Maybe the filmmakers just weren't very good. Also z-grade, utterly shit animation, which feels somehow obnoxious too. I dunno, from its high audience score I was expecting an objective look at the what and how, not some cloying nostalgising of what amounted to a criminal enterprise aimed at children.

Could be an interesting subject in disciplined hands. I shoulda probably just read case reports or something huh. 3;
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Re: Prelude to the Apocalypse

Post by BryanM »

I first heard about it through the Defunctland video, a channel I couldn't stop watching, for a time.

Bummed out that the most recent one is still the Garfield Dark Ride one from five months ago : (

Meant to post a timestamp on the fastpass one about the ghoulish profiteering off of covid.
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