Prelude to the Apocalypse

[BulletMagnet]

I edited in the last paragraph of my previous post while you were responding; as I said there, I can't read your mind, only you know why you're voting the way you are, you're not under any obligation to explain yourself to me or anyone else, and as I'm sure you'd agree what I might posit to that end doesn't much matter. By now methinks it's pretty clear what I think of the modern right at large and what I'd purport to be its over-arching motivations for acting the way it does; how much of that might apply to you specifically I have no earthly idea (though I suppose the fact that you're willing to engage me at all would, based on my own past experience, be enough to place you further from the fringe than many others I've crossed paths with, in my own estimation).

To reiterate what I closed with, though, every voter has to take the good with the bad when giving their support to someone or something, but considering what "the bad" is when one of our two major parties is chomping at the bit to simply overrule the will of the voters if the results don't suit them, again, I really hope you and millions of others like you have thought the situation through, and only you can ever know if you have. All I'd request is that you ask yourself that question one more time before pulling the lever.

[Hoagtech]

I edited in the last paragraph of my previous post while you were responding; as I said there, I can't read your mind, only you know why you're voting the way you are, you're not under any obligation to explain yourself to me or anyone else, and as I'm sure you'd agree what I might posit to that end doesn't much matter. By now methinks it's pretty clear what I think of the modern right at large and what I'd purport to be its over-arching motivations for acting the way it does; how much of that might apply to you specifically I have no earthly idea (though I suppose the fact that you're willing to engage me at all would, based on my own past experience, be enough to place you further from the fringe than many others I've crossed paths with, in my own estimation).

To reiterate what I closed with, though, every voter has to take the good with the bad when giving their support to someone or something, but considering what "the bad" is when one of our two major parties is chomping at the bit to simply overrule the will of the voters if the results don't suit them, again, I really hope you and millions of others like you have thought the situation through, and only you can ever know if you have. All I'd request is that you ask yourself that question one more time before pulling the lever.

I’m guessing you’re referring to the supreme courts agenda.

I don’t find this relative to the issues that concern me

I respect those issues to the person who it affects.

I don’t want to make a stance because I feel your motive is valid

However I feel the issues of reform that have flopped are ignored by your party and deserve a pendulum swing in the ass to resolve them

Unless you have a proven model, It is LUDICROUS to expect a satisfactory result from the changes

[orange808]

Ah, the evolving agenda of the righties.

Suddenly, the pardon for marijuana is okay with everyone. If it was just ten years ago, what would the conservative apparatus say? They would have lost their minds and basically quoted Reefer Madness.

Fuck.

[Hoagtech]

Ah, the evolving agenda of the righties.

Suddenly, the pardon for marijuana is okay with everyone. If it was just ten years ago, what would the conservative apparatus say? They would have lost their minds and basically quoted Reefer Madness.

Fuck.

Sort of like that whole prohibition thingy?

I wonder what party started that..

I’ll give you a clue. It was the one endorsed by the KKK at the time.

[drauch]

I'd like to see some facts on that out of curiosity. I don't know much about the roots of prohibition and the KKK, but wikipedia in the opening paragraph states, "The movement was taken up by progressives in the Prohibition, Democratic and Republican parties, and gained a national grassroots base through the Woman's Christian Temperance Union." Filtering through the rest I'm not seeing this at all.

[Hoagtech]

I'd like to see some facts on that out of curiosity. I don't know much about the roots of prohibition and the KKK, but wikipedia in the opening paragraph states, "The movement was taken up by progressives in the Prohibition, Democratic and Republican parties, and gained a national grassroots base through the Woman's Christian Temperance Union." Filtering through the rest I'm not seeing this at all.

Wilson started prohibition

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... son-racist

[orange808]

The politics of America during the industrial boom of the early 20th century have few direct connections to the current political establishment. It's not direct. It's convoluted. A hundred years will do that.

Drawing straight lines back one hundred years is ridiculous. Give me a break.

Things changed. If we break out the voters and their agendas, that man's supporters would vote Republican now. Things changed. Big deal. A hundred years will do that.

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ So?

Politicians did their usual bullshit. They had no intention of following their own Constitutional Amendment. Politicians did it for show. They always planned to keep drinking at home. With yesterday's anniversary on my kind, maybe prohibition was the Galloping Gertie of politics. Lots of lessons to be learned from disingenuous pandering and intentionally creating black markets. Bad engineering of a different kind.

Let me take this opportunity to repeat an important key point: CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. That's in bold to highlight the amount of votes and political support that Prohibition required. That was no ordinary law. Everyone played ball. Everyone was in on that charade. You can't pass an amendment unilaterally.

Just stop.

[drauch]

I do enjoy the irony of linking a very left-leaning news/opinion site, lol.

[Hoagtech]

I do enjoy the irony of linking a very left-leaning news/opinion site, lol.

Me too. Irony and hypocrisy are thick these days.

*whoosh (right over the turtle)

You throw a rock at a turtle shell and it just bounces right off.

[orange808]

I think you may be confused. This isn't Truth Social.

[BryanM]

One of the more tiresome talking points in comment sections are the pieces of shit saying Fetterman doesn't deserve their vote because he's "medically unfit".

Yeah like he was ever a contender for them like they'd be saying the same thing if Oz was the one who had a stroke

It's like pretending you're stupid and talking in baby talk. Demeans everyone involved, makes the entire universe a worse place.

Fashies can make fun of me if he loses tonight. I prefer their outright gloating about the hellworld we occupy than the pretense and bullshit; that's a sin against everything sacred. The gloating at least serves some utility function.

You can't pass an amendment unilaterally.

Nah man, it's all team blue who only does bad things. Unlike team red which only does good things.

Please don't ask me why I think everything sucks when team red has had complete control of everything for the past 40 years and the next 40 years and the blue team is only there to act as a figurehead for five minutes once every decade to give the illusion of any choice in anything.

I've got very long winded talking points to distract from the fact I like team red because it was my dad's team and I love my dad. Or I hate my dad's guts and he liked team blue, so...

[BulletMagnet]

...I think we're kind of talking past each other at this point, but I do want to expand on two things:

Unless you have a proven model, It is LUDICROUS to expect a satisfactory result from the changes

I feel like I'm missing some nuance or other here, because as written it sounds like you're saying "never try anything new, because you don't know if it will work". Which I don't think you actually mean, because that would be utterly ridiculous.

That being said, as detailed in the link I provided earlier, at the very least the criminal justice reforms being decried by the "tough on crime" set (which, it should be remembered, are responsible for horrors like this; I find it especially curious that you seem to be clamoring for their return to prominence even as you claim to support leniency for at least low-level drug crimes, a cornerstone of the "broken windows policing" approach you simultaneously appear to demand) don't appear to be the cause of the recent rise in crime rates, so citing them as your primary justification for your vote strikes me as, if nothing else, an overreaction, especially considering...

However I feel the issues of reform that have flopped are ignored by your party and deserve a pendulum swing in the ass to resolve them

To reiterate my main point for at least the third time since we began going back and forth here, even if you do believe, directly in the face of the available evidence, that the shortcomings of criminal justice reform are enough to prompt a change in leadership, keep in mind that the people you say will "resolve" the problem have openly and consistently declared that if they gain power they intend to ensure that, no matter what happens next, the pendulum can never swing back. Once again, I really, really hope you and countless others like you have thought through just what that means, and whether whatever issue you claim to base your vote on is worth that outcome.

In any event, the ballots are all but cast by now, so I guess we'll find out just how much of a dealbreaker a wholesale rejection of the democratic process is for the country's electorate at large in short order.

[Hoagtech]

...I think we're kind of talking past each other at this point, but I do want to expand on two things:

Unless you have a proven model, It is LUDICROUS to expect a satisfactory result from the changes

I feel like I'm missing some nuance or other here, because as written it sounds like you're saying "never try anything new, because you don't know if it will work". Which I don't think you actually mean, because that would be utterly ridiculous.

That being said, as detailed in the link I provided earlier, at the very least the criminal justice reforms being decried by the "tough on crime" set (which, it should be remembered, are responsible for horrors like this; I find it especially curious that you seem to be clamoring for their return to prominence even as you claim to support leniency for at least low-level drug crimes, a cornerstone of the "broken windows policing" approach you simultaneously appear to demand) don't appear to be the cause of the recent rise in crime rates, so citing them as your primary justification for your vote strikes me as, if nothing else, an overreaction, especially considering...

However I feel the issues of reform that have flopped are ignored by your party and deserve a pendulum swing in the ass to resolve them

To reiterate my main point for at least the third time since we began going back and forth here, even if you do believe, directly in the face of the available evidence, that the shortcomings of criminal justice reform are enough to prompt a change in leadership, keep in mind that the people you say will "resolve" the problem have openly and consistently declared that if they gain power they intend to ensure that, no matter what happens next, the pendulum can never swing back. Once again, I really, really hope you and countless others like you have thought through just what that means, and whether whatever issue you claim to base your vote on is worth that outcome.

In any event, the ballots are all but cast by now, so I guess we'll find out just how much of a dealbreaker a wholesale rejection of the democratic process is for the country's electorate at large in short order.

The fear of party not returning is false. I would say W Bush was a great example of that. Internal vice president chairman of Halliburton in oil rich wars a great indicator to the free thinking man to not care about party lines. It’s the fact that his opposition was such a cheesedick that caused his second term.

If you don’t see the alarms of your own party during this term. That’s your problem.

[Sengoku Strider]

Less than a day.

FOX NEWS:

Conservatives point finger at Trump after GOP’s underwhelming election results: 'He's never been weaker'
Many conservatives say Tuesday's election results show it's 'time to move on' from Trump

"All the chatter on my conservative and GOP channels is rage at Trump like I've never seen," Michael Brendan Dougherty, a senior writer at National Review, wrote on Twitter. "'The one guy he attacked before Election Day was DeSantis — the clear winner, meanwhile, all his guys are s---ing the bed.'"

There is nothing that will draw the political sharks like the smell of loser. It's kind of amazing Trump's goofy conspiracies were enough to hold the knives back this long.

[BryanM]

It's going to be triply funny when he crushes all the other suits in the Mortal Kombat primary that's starting uh minus six hours from now.

The massive tears at Oz losing only make me sad, really. Just imagine being so awful a human being that you actually care about this billionaire missing out on a few million extra bucks in his pocket.

Human neurons build this expansive subjective personal universe, and that's the world they've chosen to be better than all others.

I never wanna trample on a doomer's gloom, but don't you think electric vehicles will become a big enough share of the (at least US) fleet in 20-30 years that gas supply will be less relevant? Adoption is pretty good, and energy storage density is already past a 500 mile range in some models; in 5 years, that will be commonplace.

I've been an advocate for the things since 2000, but they're not a panacea.

At the core of the issue is moving several tons of steel and fiberglass in order to move a couple hundred pounds around. It's fundamentally a waste of energy.

That energy has to come from somewhere. Fission is about the only option on the table. And the only very great version of fission is deriving fissionable uranium from thorium... which is not a mature technology. Shit-canned during the Nixon years, in favor of letting the capitalists use our submarine designs on land and pocket the contracts.

Maybe basic research could have made things better. The interests that be were all against it. Another human-made system to kick everyone in the balls a few generations later.

At least they got a lot of yachts and hookers out of the deal, I suppose.

[BulletMagnet]

I would say W Bush was a great example of that.

This is not what I was referring to when I spoke of numerous people up for election openly pledging to not allow the pendulum to swing back, and to be perfectly frank I don't think you're ignorant enough not to know what I was talking about. If you are, heaven help you.

At this point, I think about all I can do is repost a reply I gave to you on a similar topic some months ago:

This isn't about the government having too much power nor the circumstances under which it's wielded, it's about who gets to wield it, and moreover whose alliances you're willing to tolerate in order to make sure it's you.

It's kind of amazing Trump's goofy conspiracies were enough to hold the knives back this long.

As always, I'll believe the exodus when I see it.

[Hoagtech]

I would say W Bush was a great example of that.

This is not what I was referring to when I spoke of numerous people up for election openly pledging to not allow the pendulum to swing back, and to be perfectly frank I don't think you're ignorant enough not to know what I was talking about. If you are, heaven help you.

At this point, I think about all I can do is repost a reply I gave to you on a similar topic some months ago:

This isn't about the government having too much power nor the circumstances under which it's wielded, it's about who gets to wield it, and moreover whose alliances you're willing to tolerate in order to make sure it's you.

It's kind of amazing Trump's goofy conspiracies were enough to hold the knives back this long.

As always, I'll believe the exodus when I see it.

I'm surprised the old folks didn't throw more of a fit on their 401k tanking honestly..

[orange808]

Because, the American president chooses what the global markets and foreign countries do?

[Mischief Maker]

Because, the American president chooses what the global markets and foreign countries do?

AND the federal reserve interest rates!

[BryanM]

I remember how that works!

[Mischief Maker]

Gotta love the irony of Republicans missing their expected red flow right after banning abortions.

D'oh!

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/sta ... 2IoJIsAAAA

[orange808]

Most Americans were comfortable with the compromises we had in place. I'm exhausted with the infinite looping argument. There's no new information and few people are on the fence. It's just more bullshit and trouble. I've got enough shit to worry about. I didn't want to redecide this issue again and again; we had compromises in place already.

If this was something people really wanted to decide, it could have been handled as a referendum during a presidential election and encoded into the Constitution later based on the popular vote. Of course, the GOP would never agree to that (or they would renege on the deal) when it came time to pass the amendment that legalized abortion forever. Could go either way. Put it on the ballot and make a decision.

Think it's popular? Put it on the ballot and accept the result. Of course, the opinion polls say the GOP can't win real public support, so they played this fucking game instead.

[Hoagtech]

There is nothing more disgusting than tax grooming.

I pretty sure you guys don’t even shit anymore.

You just sit on the toilet and it falls out of your stretched government insertion holes you fucking cucks!

[orange808]

Is that a direct Timmy McVeigh quote or just a paraphrase?

[Mischief Maker]

There is nothing more disgusting than tax grooming.

I pretty sure you guys don’t even shit anymore.

You just sit on the toilet and it falls out of your stretched government insertion holes you fucking cucks!

This is the face of your god!

(Uploaded the same week the Trump billionaire tax cuts were signed)

[Sengoku Strider]

As always, I'll believe the exodus when I see it.

Oh yeah. That was a Fox News article and we've known for years that even though the audience loves Trump, Murdoch is a guy all about messaging and is fed up with him, a guy who can't stay on message for an entire paragraph. He's got Piers Morgan going at him in his New York Post as well:

Morgan accused Trump of "pathetic, mafioso-style behavior" by warning the Florida governor: "I think if he runs, he could hurt himself very badly."

Describing the results as a "crushing political smackdown for Trump", he added: "He can try, as he is, to ludicrously spin it as some kind of pyrrhic victory, but last night's biggest loser was the permanently whining, fuming former president, and he has only himself to blame."

And then Murdoch double-barrelled with his Wall Street Journal: Wall Street Journal labels Trump biggest Republican ‘loser’

The board said Trump could have stayed mostly quiet in the last few weeks of the election cycle except to spend money for Republican candidates, but he did the opposite and “played into Democratic hands.”

"Couldn't even clam up for three weeks about an election you're not even in, could you, you big fat crap-magnet?"

“Since his unlikely victory in 2016 against the widely disliked Hillary Clinton, Mr. Trump has a perfect record of electoral defeat,” the board said.

"You were a one-time fluke. Retire already, loser."

Of course this is the other side:

Move on from Trump? Even GOP critics of the former president don’t see it.
No one thinks Tuesday was a great night for the former president. They just can’t see GOP voters blaming him that much.

“We tend to be slow learners,” said Steve Duprey, the former Republican national committeeman from New Hampshire and longtime former state chair in the first-in-the-nation primary state.

Mark Graul, a Republican strategist who worked on George W. Bush’s 2004 campaign, said “it can’t possibly be more clear what a detriment Donald Trump is to Republican candidates.” As for whether it would hurt Trump’s prospects in a 2024 primary, however, Graul said, “That’s the question I don’t know the answer to. You would think it would, but I just, I don’t know.”

"When asking these questions do keep in mind that from a purely diagnostic viewpoint, a significant portion of our electorate qualify as intellectually challenged, or are right near that line. This might take a bit."

There is nothing more disgusting than tax grooming.

I pretty sure you guys don’t even shit anymore.

You just sit on the toilet and it falls out of your stretched government insertion holes you fucking cucks!

"Paying taxes is gay and you have so much gay tax sex with the government now you poo wrong and also the government has sex with your wife while you watch and you like it."

This checks out. Enough taxation, it's time to give fascism a chance. An ideology completely about the government not inconveniencing you.

This is the face of your god!

(Uploaded the same week the Trump billionaire tax cuts were signed)

The pink handcuffs really setting the vibe here.

[BulletMagnet]

There is nothing more disgusting than tax grooming.

I pretty sure you guys don’t even shit anymore.

You just sit on the toilet and it falls out of your stretched government insertion holes you fucking cucks!

...somebody please tell me why I still occasionally attempt to engage with the contemporary right in good faith, when it almost invariably ends the same goddamn way.

[Air Master Burst]

"Paying taxes is gay and you have so much gay tax sex with the government now you poo wrong and also the government has sex with your wife while you watch and you like it."

You guys really need to stop using the concept of government to turn me on. I served in the Army and they never did ANY of this stuff for me!

[Hoagtech]

"Paying taxes is gay and you have so much gay tax sex with the government now you poo wrong and also the government has sex with your wife while you watch and you like it."

This checks out. Enough taxation, it's time to give fascism a chance. An ideology completely about the government not inconveniencing you.

How dare you degrade the gay community by bringing them into this. Gay sex is consensual between adults and their sexual preferences.

Democrat tax hikes are more relative to Prison rape or South Park Spielberg.

Every time a D does a tax cartwheel and takes away from the successes of the middle income person or household I lose hope for common sense in society.

You guys bring up Big business tax cuts like the late 70's never happened. And what happened to the tax cuts for small businesses? I thought helping the small guy was the goal here?

Why it the highest gas taxes are in Democratic states? Gas is surely only for billionaires right?

...somebody please tell me why I still occasionally attempt to engage with the contemporary right in good faith, when it almost invariably ends the same goddamn way.

Because your hand gets cramped from too much circle jerking with the blue hats in this parrot cage.

And there you go stereotyping me into a political party without my consent. If you want to know how I voted you can just ask like a rude gentleman.

I voted to for Obama in 08 like most Dum Dums around me at the time. So that puts me away from the far right on the political spectrum.

I did it for similar reasons that sway my vote today while W Bush was in office.

Governmental control and censorship (Terrorist Act), Energy Control (Iraq War), And private interests (Halliburton). I see a lot of similarities in todays administration.

You keep fighting that war on fascism while we rip the copper wires out of the building in your sleep.

[orange808]

...somebody please tell me why I still occasionally attempt to engage with the contemporary right in good faith, when it almost invariably ends the same goddamn way.

There's a feedback loop that serves conservative politics. It's impossible to discuss, because the discussion itself makes people defensive--and it reinforces the loop.


-------------

As for claims about ripping out wires and whatnot, the voters didn't do shit. The right got fucking embarrassed. The fake red wave was nothing more than standard midterm ebb and flow. Little ripples washing across serene waters (like they always do) is no wave. You're not part of any wave or secret majority. You're not getting cheated. The political climate is exactly what the numbers say they are.