Prelude to the Apocalypse

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Iran War. When.

2021
3
6%
2022-2025
15
28%
2026-2030
7
13%
2031-2040
3
6%
2041-2050
0
No votes
Never
26
48%
 
Total votes: 54

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Mischief Maker
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Mischief Maker »

BulletMagnet wrote:Considering how many porn stars our current Commander-in-Chief has paid off in recent years (including mere months after marrying Melania...though my personal favorite detail is her being told to spank him with a copy of Forbes magazine featuring him on the cover :lol:) we're already well on our way there, from the top down! :lol: As, once again, the "moral majority" (y'know, the culture with standards everyone else envies), who would have freaked the fuck out if anything fractionally comparable had come out concerning, oh, I dunno, Obama, join together in yet another collective cuck-shrug. :lol:
Morals, shmorals!

The really interesting thing coming from Stormy Daniels, and likely what she was paid to keep under wraps, is what Trump's into sexually. If he is into humiliation-play like spanking, he could easily be into humiliation-play like getting peed on, which being a germophobe would only intensify. This lends credence to the Steele Dossier.

Also, holy shit, Trump was right! She DOES bear a striking resemblance to his daughter. There's a reason a key detail of the republican stereotype is "inbred."
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Specineff
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Specineff »

Ah, ha ha ha ha ha! How delightful it is that on the first anniversary of this administration, all they have to show for it is a tax bill meant to benefit the rich forever (after the breaks for the serfdom expire in 2025), the internet in the hands of the Totally Honorable and Well-intentioned ISPs, and a shutdown.

Where are those who praised Trump as the absolute best thing that could happen to the country, and gushed over every piece of shit that spawned from his mouth? Where are those who embraced his racist rhetoric, their Holier-than-thou attitude, and the bigoted vitriol they spewed in indignant hatetriotism? Why so quiet now, huh?


-The Government is in shutdown with a Republican majority in both the Senate and the House. (But it's all those Democrats' fault, Trumpdammit!)

-Mexico isn't paying The Holy Orange One a single flat penny for his wall.

-His executive orders are being challenged and thwarted as unconstitutional. (And thank God the Supreme Court will hear this)

-There's no replacement for Obamacare... I guess that "Day one" thing was an alternative fact referring to day one after his third term, right?

-He's being called out left and right for his ignorance, and making the USA the laughingstock of the world as it's evident he doesn't even know how to do his job.

-An investigation for possible money laundering tied to the Russian government is biting at his (and campaign staff's) heels. (But Bengazi Uranium One Lock-Her-Up Crooked Hillary, right? RIGHT? And Obama was much worse, right? What with all the investigations he had to weather, and how he went and tapped Trump Tower's lines, huh?)

-Spankity, spank, spank spank!

Keep on clicking your heels together and saying "Make America Great" over and over, Trumpskis; if you do it enough and believe with all your heart, it may just come true. Anything else is just fake news, of course. This is what YOU voted for; SUCK IT DOWN.
Last edited by Specineff on Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BryanM
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

Money laundering, not "collusion". "Collusion" is something the US does to other countries (such as kidnapping and exiling the president of Haiti when he wouldn't play ball. Twice. Still waiting on some consequence to come from that. (There is no consequence, besides their peasants still having to literally eat dirt.))

They got a bunch of judgeships, but they would have gotten even more of them in the long run from an anemic Clinton victory and an even flashier inevitable loss by her in 2020.

Once again, here are all the bets on when John Kelly will be officially fired.

Code: Select all

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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Specineff »

Okay. Will edit post accordingly, though he (Whose Face May Always Remain Orange) has said several times (with the same lungful of air) that there was no collusion.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BulletMagnet »

Specineff wrote:Where are those who praised Trump as the absolute best thing that could happen to the country, and gushed over every piece of shit that spawned from his mouth?
Read any "Trump Voters: One Year Later" piece you can find and you'll hear the same thing: yeah, he's coarse, but he's lowering my taxes, he's getting rid of excessive regulations, he's pulling out of bad agreements, he's finally doing something on immigration. I'd absolutely vote for him again.

This is why I simply can't get terribly excited about the Mueller investigation; even if there is something legitimately criminal there (as opposed to "poor judgement") and Trump himself (as opposed to his subordinates) is found to be directly complicit in it, all the country gets out of it are 1) President Pence, and 2) Half the electorate feeling even more justified in their "See? He was right, there WAS a conspiracy out to get him!" vantage point, and a significant portion of the media ready and willing to reinforce it, so when another screaming joke with vague, magical promises heads to the podium in 2020, they're just as ignorant of how the country and the world actually work as they were in 2016 (and just as proud of it - screw those elitist "experts", right?), and absolutely raring to send him to the Oval Office.

Democracy doesn't work without an informed and empowered electorate; when so many of us, even with such constant access to information, are so easily convinced of categorically false things - and, more importantly, take a sick sort of pride in that ignorance and have plenty of authority figures to cheer us on - we're not making informed decisions at the ballot box, we're chasing shiny objects, and will keep doing so until we either wise up or the country collapses in on itself.
-The Government is in shutdown with a Republican majority in both the Senate and the House. (But it's all those Democrats' fault, Trumpdammit!)
Last I checked there was a pretty even split between people blaming either party for this mess; again, I wonder how much that might change if more people knew the actual timeline of the issues attached to the spending bill, but it's a purely academic question, because the top beneficiaries of the free market don't want an informed consumer base any more than those of the political system want an informed electorate. Bonus: Blast From the Past!
-Mexico isn't paying The Holy Orange One a single flat penny for his wall.
As with everything else, the administration has been on each and every side of this issue by now, since it doesn't operate under anything resembling a "philosophy" or "worldview" outside of "what happens to benefit me right this second?" and, once again, its base doesn't seem to give a damn. Whatever cockamamie excuse/s they eventually settle upon to be able to say "we did technically keep that promise", I guarantee they will pay exactly zero political price for it, and the few who dare pursue the issue will be shouted down.
-His executive orders are being challenged and thwarted as unconstitutional. (And thank God the Supreme Court will hear this)
This, if you ask me, is the most stinging reminder of how utterly impotent the "resistance" has been outside of making a bunch of cacophonous noise - even before Trump was the nominee, Congressional Republicans stole a Supreme Court nomination in broad daylight, and - again - have suffered absolutely nothing as a result (and they couldn't even draw on history for a dose of their usual "oh, the other side has done this before" whataboutism, because it's completely unprecedented in our history; not that it even mattered!). Just try to imagine if the Dems had attempted to pull a stunt like that - there'd be blood running in the streets. Over here, everyone's just kind of given up on even mentioning it; apparently they still have there you go again nightmares when they sleep. The same ones they've been having since Election 2000. Some fucking resistance.
-There's no replacement for Obamacare... I guess that "Day one" thing was an alternative fact referring to day one after his third term, right?
There was never a replacement for Obamacare, because the GOP doesn't want one - remember, back before the ACA was passed, they clambered over themselves to sing the praises of the wild-west "system" we already had, pre-existing conditions and skyrocketing premiums (you think they're bad now? Head on down memory lane and recall what happened when the free market really worked its magic) notwithstanding. If they do manage to bring down the ACA (they've certainly sabotaged it effectively enough at the state level, where GOP governors would rather let poor constituents die than accept Medicaid funding, and now at the federal level thanks to the rollback of the mandate), any "replacement" they cook up will look a lot like the pre-ACA landscape did...though they'll keep their own taxpayer-funded coverage, of course, as they move on to further slashing Medicare and Medicaid.

Forgive me for not having a particularly rosy outlook, but there's a good reason all those Trump voters are feeling so self-satisfied, and it's going to be a long time before the bite marks on their backsides bleed enough for most of them to start asking questions - and most of us are too busy repeating the (fun!) mistakes of the past half-century to realize just how deep a hole we're in.
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Mischief Maker
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Mischief Maker »

To be fair, there's a lot of people who voted for Trump in the previous election who might not want to identify themselves as "Trump Voters" to the media. Such as supergrafx77 on this very forum. If you do, chances are you already have your rationalizations set and ready.
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Bananamatic »

it was her turn
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BryanM
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

Specineff wrote:Okay. Will edit post accordingly, though he (Whose Face May Always Remain Orange) has said several times (with the same lungful of air) that there was no collusion.
Even the talking heads on TV screaming there was collusion to "rig" the election aren't saying there was any collusion. Like with "repeal and replace", it's a rhetorical cloud of jack shit with nothing at the end of the rainbow. It's Benghazi! for democrats.

Let's take MSNBC. Yemen is having a hard time of things lately. Does MSNBC think that is worth a few minutes every week or so for an update? Haha, of course not.

Not only do I know less about what's going on in Yemen, I also somehow know less about the country called Russia, too. It's incredible.

And here we are on the internet, still living under their corporate shadow. Television had the ability to educate people more effectively than any media that came before it, but it was used for propaganda instead. 'Twas a waste, but an expected one when there is no democracy involved in who gets to hold the megaphone.

Spin was an old timey 1990's documentary that touched a bit on the subject. Which is the type of thing I find more interesting than whether or not Trump likes gold things a little more than he should, or Rachel Maddow's ability to turn an hour of airtime into an empty black hole.

(That was the era where Bill Clinton was installed to power by billionaires like the Kochs, thus wiping the last vestiges of FDR style democrats from the party. Tis more historical drama, than just some video a guy with too much time on his hands caught on his raw cable feed.)
Mischief Maker wrote:To be fair, there's a lot of people who voted for Trump in the previous election who might not want to identify themselves as "Trump Voters" to the media.
It's kind of a bad joke, where guys like Rick Nolan and Matt Cartwright (both who ran on single payer and raising taxes on the wealthy) won in 2016 in districts Trump won by over 10 points.

The idea of beating republicans by becoming republicans is completely fucking stupid. You'd need an entire lifetime of propaganda to even begin to consider it as a reasonable thought to have.

Thus why it took nearly 50 years for them to do it.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Specineff »

Aw, BM. You're taking the fun out of my little Schadenfreude party. :twisted:

In all seriousness, yes: I wouldn't expect anyone (much less those Trumpskis) to start reconsidering and ask themselves "What have we done?", but I don't think any other president in the last 40 years had so much shit on their plate on the first year of their administration, and it simply cannot be good for him if it all continues. Believe me, nothing silences those sycophants quicker than "How much money has Mexico paid for the wall so far?". For the time being that's good enough for me.

Edit: On the executive orders regarding the ban from muslim countries and DACA, they have been at least partially struck down or reversed by federal judges. That's one chink in the armor.

Shutdown: The one in 2013 happened when the republicans had the majority in the House. Add to that the fact that many representatives or senators won't be running again, and you have something that a new candidate could pounce upon, 10 months from now.

Obamacare: See above, and add the dressing of pre-existing conditions to that shit salad. :wink:

The loud Trumpskis: They're quiet, and all of the above can be rubbed on their faces. That's a good start.

P.S.: By the same token, excuse my optimism; I hear your points loud and clear, it's just that it's impossible for all this not to have any sort of effect. A house infested with termites doesn't crumble on the first day. :lol:
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by quash »

BulletMagnet wrote:Democracy doesn't work without an informed and empowered electorate; when so many of us, even with such constant access to information, are so easily convinced of categorically false things - and, more importantly, take a sick sort of pride in that ignorance and have plenty of authority figures to cheer us on - we're not making informed decisions at the ballot box, we're chasing shiny objects, and will keep doing so until we either wise up or the country collapses in on itself.
There's so many ways for me to approach this, it's hard to choose one.

I'll start with the big kahuna: do you actually believe in democracy, or do you just want leftist policies enacted and use the ballot box as an excuse?

Because what you're saying here is that, even in the current age, with unprecedented access to information, people are still incapable of deciding what's best for themselves and/or their country.

Your pining for a well informed and empowered electorate is by definition exclusionary, so do you want everyone to be able to vote or not? I'm sure there's plenty of right wingers who'd love nothing more than restricting the voting pool to property owning men, as it once was in the US. Maybe an IQ test? A fake news quiz? Who would be the arbiter of such a thing? How would any of this be enforced?

I don't expect you to answer any of this, because you never do (even when you type a response, you simply divert away from the point of discussion and project that onto others), but again, this stopped being about you a long time ago. But please, if I'm somehow misinterpreting what you're saying, at least tell me how.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

Right, as Miles explained to us the other week, you can't have a "wrong" terminal goal. Only suboptimal or counterproductive actions towards that goal.

That the GOP primaries are a beauty pageant to find the worst person on the planet is engineered that way by design.
Specineff wrote:Aw, BM. You're taking the fun out of my little Schadenfreude party. :twisted:

P.S.: By the same token, excuse my optimism; I hear your points loud and clear, it's just that it's impossible for all this not to have any sort of effect. A house infested with termites doesn't crumble on the first day. :lol:
Trump certainly is meeting all the expectations I had for him. And it *is* fun to watch. His second or third or fourth (it's hard to keep up with all this winning!) chief of staff is about to get shitcanned! Inevitable 2006 blue wave style midterm happening this year! Yeah!

... then Biden wins the primary in 2020, rubs his balls on millennials, and pulls off a Kerry.

The poop see-saw will never end until we get poop out of one side of the system : (

/stops eeyoring
/right after whispering "everything will return to hydrogen in the end"
Last edited by BryanM on Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BulletMagnet »

quash wrote:But please, if I'm somehow misinterpreting what you're saying, at least tell me how.
You are, and as always there's no way it's not deliberate on your part; an informed and empowered electorate doesn't mean a smaller electorate, it means an informed and empowered one. Yeah, accomplishing the latter is considerably more work (and, more importantly, more detrimental to the rich), but it's the only means for the country to actually function anywhere close to the way it was intended to, let alone the idealized way folks like to think of it.

If you want actual, specific policies (for any other reason than to nitpick and/or snark at them), reinstating something along the lines of the Fairness Doctrine, re-outlawing mass corporate ownership of media, bringing civics back to the schools, and limiting election spending to public funds ( or at the very least closing the myriad loopholes that allow donors to remain anonymous) might help to clear some of the silt from the plutocratic cesspit that is our current discourse; independent redrawing commissions, expanded early/distance voting, reinstatement of voting rights protections (and rescindment of the "anti-fraud measures" that have popped up in their place), moving Election Day or declaring it a holiday, and heck, maybe even a participation requirement of some kind might allow more folks to actually do something with an idea of what the hell is actually going on.

Of course, you (claim to) have a very different idea of "what the hell is actually going on" than I do - or most anyone does - so it's a moot point, since the Deep State has infected everything you fools, but the fact that I'm even taking the time to answer you, as if anything productive could come out of it, means I'm living in my own fantasy world, I suppose. :lol:
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Zen »

BulletMagnet wrote:- so it's a moot point, since the Deep State has infected everything you fools,
I take it that you do not believe this to be the case?
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Mischief Maker
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Mischief Maker »

Looks like Chuck Schumer, the genius who once said this:
For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.
Has reached a deal that involves giving up his party's only current leverage against Mitch McConnel, pictured below:

Image

And the deal goes a little something like this:

Image

Holy fuck, primaries, primaries, and more primaries!
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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quash
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by quash »

BulletMagnet wrote:an informed and empowered electorate doesn't mean a smaller electorate, it means an informed and empowered one.


That's just the thing: nobody, let alone an entire nation of people, is ever going to be equally informed or empowered. You can force everyone through the exact same public school curriculum and there'll still be significant variations in outcome. This isn't just me talking, this has been proven time and again in various studies on the subject.
but it's the only means for the country to actually function anywhere close to the way it was intended to, let alone the idealized way folks like to think of it.
The US worked as intended back when only property owning men could vote. I'm not saying this is what you want, but I am saying to be careful what you wish for.
If you want actual, specific policies (for any other reason than to nitpick and/or snark at them), reinstating something along the lines of the Fairness Doctrine, re-outlawing mass corporate ownership of media, bringing civics back to the schools, and limiting election spending to public funds ( or at the very least closing the myriad loopholes that allow donors to remain anonymous) might help to clear some of the silt from the plutocratic cesspit that is our current discourse; independent redrawing commissions, expanded early/distance voting, reinstatement of voting rights protections (and rescindment of the "anti-fraud measures" that have popped up in their place), moving Election Day or declaring it a holiday, and heck, maybe even a participation requirement of some kind might allow more folks to actually do something with an idea of what the hell is actually going on.


Given the current narrative of external state agents interfering in the last election, what would you do about them? Facebook, Twitter, etc. are clamping down their platforms more and more in response to these claims, yet if it weren't for "mass corporate ownership of media", there wouldn't be any centralized method of squelching such actors. Unless, of course, you are advocating for state ownership of media, which in some ways I'd argue we already have, but I digress.
Of course, you (claim to) have a very different idea of "what the hell is actually going on" than I do - or most anyone does - so it's a moot point, since the Deep State has infected everything you fools
You can choose to ignore the role the intelligence agencies have in technology, media and government, if you want. I certainly won't stop you. But the moment you turn a blind eye to what's going on in that sector, you lose the ability to call yourself informed.

Have you stopped to ask yourself why you have such a reflexive aversion to these topics?
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

Mischief Maker wrote:Holy fuck, primaries, primaries, and more primaries!
It's heart warming to see Doug Jones, who is scientifically 1% better than a sexpest that trolls malls to have sex with 14 year olds, immediately work against his voter's wishes.

I'm sure he's going to have a looooooong career.

Or the republicans will wise up and field a sexpest whose cutoff is 15 year olds, which should be just good enough to at least get a win with a margin of 0.2% against Jones.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BulletMagnet »

quash wrote:That's just the thing: nobody, let alone an entire nation of people, is ever going to be equally informed or empowered.
No, but there's no way we can't act a hell of a lot more like we want to at least take practical steps towards that ideal than the pitiful Pontius Pilate act we put on now - which, frankly, is the same argument I'd apply to pretty much everything that the right in particular (albeit not exclusively) insists isn't worth the effort (read: upper-end tax dollars), but I'm sure we've been around the horn more than enough times in that area.
The US worked as intended back when only property owning men could vote.
I'd like to think that most of us have managed to move past that point by now, though some of the "ideas" about democratic participation (or, more to the point, the lack thereof) that have flourished among the Heritage Foundation set (let alone the Infowars bunkers) in recent years certainly don't encourage me to that end. And no, before you dig up some kook who trolls Instagram about throwing all the Trump voters in the gulag (let me know when they start getting invited onto the Sunday shows), I, y'know, probably don't concur with that.
Given the current narrative of external state agents interfering in the last election, what would you do about them?
Dismiss them out of hand and/or openly encourage their meddling as long as it benefits me, of course. :lol: Though if we had a nation more fully committed to an established set of basic facts (not to mention better-funded and -staffed counter-intelligence bureaus) about the workings of government, history, economics, etc. we might be a bit more skeptical of anonymous nonsense seemingly laser-focused on our most deep-seated reptile-brain fears, and be both willing and equipped to check into them before passing them along to everyone we know - and, perhaps more importantly, be willing to err on the side of caution when it comes to stuff we can't verify. Oh, and perhaps not cozying up to every brutish despot on the planet and talking about how great it'd be if we could do what they do over here wouldn't set a bad precedent either.
Facebook, Twitter, etc. are clamping down their platforms more and more in response to these claims
I'll believe these companies (and the President) have finally stopped hiding behind their fiduciary responsibility to shareholders when I see it, especially now that Facebook is openly favoring your uncle's chain letters over the New York Times.
Unless, of course, you are advocating for state ownership of media, which in some ways I'd argue we already have, but I digress.
Can we at least stop treating PBS as an "enemy of the people" and repeatedly attempting to strangle it to death, maybe? Along with, y'know, every other pubic entity? Or unfriendly private ones? That'd be a starting point for something resembling meaningful dialogue.
You can choose to ignore the role the intelligence agencies have in technology, media and government, if you want.
Ignore, no - thanks again, Comey! - but I can only scorn those who treat the ever-looming specter of People Somewhere Who Are Too Incompetent To Put Together Coherent Policy In Any Area But Still Somehow Managed to Take Control of Everything Without 99 Percent of People Noticing as the political debate equivalent of "the dog ate my homework". (EDIT: For fuck's sake, now they're retconning it. :lol:)
Have you stopped to ask yourself why you have such a reflexive aversion to these topics?
Because I, silly goose that I am, tend to be sufficiently alarmed by the things happening right out in the open, with very clear motives driving them, to feel much need to apply some nebulous, additionally-sinister "layer" that might exist in some form to distract from the proceedings (because, let's be real, that's what it's there for), when what's right in front of us is already more than dangerous and inexcusable enough.

Better keep that Peanuts strip handy, MM - oh well, laces out! :lol:
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Mischief Maker »

Budget talks progress, as Senate Dems drop Dreamer demand
“We’re viewing [immigration and spending] on separate terms because they are on separate paths,” Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) said Tuesday.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s “procedural concession means we’ve got a deadline and a process,” Durbin added. “That to me is a significant step forward. It’s not everything I wanted, that’s for sure, but it’s a step forward.”
In other words, they're giving up the ONLY leverage they have left, the budget, and putting their full trust in the promise of Mitch McConnell. (Because their wealthy donors don't want the threat of another shutdown to fuck with the stock market.) Something tells me this is how McConnell will treat dreamers when the time comes to hold up his end of the bargain:

Image

Bear in mind this is right on the backs of the massive women's march protests and massive public outcry to families being torn apart by Trump's ICE like this one.

Can we PLEASE dispense with the notion that these are the "adults in the room?" Just like Hillary's campaign squandered a billion dollars, the democrats are now going to squander their only leverage and squander the current grassroots enthusiasm behind them when the republicans inevitably spike the football.

That blue wave is not at all guaranteed, folks.
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Obscura »

There's nothing wrong with families being torn apart by ICE. Don't start a family if you're only here temporarily or are illegal. We need to do away with anchor baby nonsense.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

There's nothing wrong with ICE deporting your dad. He's shit anyway. And you're a piece of shit anchor babby.

Vote Trump!

/loses election to a turd biscuit, wonders why
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Obscura »

Except Trump won because that proposal is wildly popular outside of Williamsburg, Portland, and Commiefornia.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Zen »

BryanM wrote:Image
Image
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by BryanM »

Obscura wrote:Except Trump won because that proposal is wildly popular outside of Williamsburg, Portland, and Commiefornia.
He won despite the fact that proposal is wildly unpopular outside Williamsburg, Portland, and Commiefornia.

"Drain the swamp", "I'll bring back the jobs these guys outsourced" and the fact his opponent was a swamp monster had absolutely nothing to do with his 30,000 vote margin victory. Nope.

There's more than one reason to vote for someone? Nuance and critical thinking on the internet? I'll never.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by ED-057 »

BryanM wrote:
Obscura wrote:Except Trump won because that proposal is wildly popular outside of Williamsburg, Portland, and Commiefornia.
He won despite the fact that proposal is wildly unpopular outside Williamsburg, Portland, and Commiefornia.

"Drain the swamp", "I'll bring back the jobs these guys outsourced" and the fact his opponent was a swamp monster had absolutely nothing to do with his 30,000 vote margin victory. Nope.

There's more than one reason to vote for someone? Nuance and critical thinking on the internet? I'll never.
You seem to be saying that Trump voters didn't support his immigration stance. Are you sure about that?
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BulletMagnet
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

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There is support in both parties for several "pro-immigrant" initiatives, though I imagine the numbers would be different if they focused only on the Fifth Avenue crowd.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

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ED-057 wrote:You seem to be saying that Trump voters didn't support his immigration stance. Are you sure about that?
No, that isn't close to what the facts are. About 84% of Trump voters say deport'em all. Which is 16.4% of the total population.

Wonderfully, 34% of Trump voters also say "offer'em a chance for legal status." So roughly 18% of them say to do both of the things. The things that are diametrically the opposite of one another. Which is extremely Trumpy and lol worthy.

If this was a popular initiative, Hillary Clinton would have been completely crushed. But it was a coin flip election. An election that Trump should have triumphed by a similar margin that Bush defeated Kerry by, since, let's be honest here. Clinton is much, much weaker than Kerry.

~60% of the country supports having them pay a $thousands fine, stay a number of years, learn the english, and become citizens. Deport'em All, only has ~30%. These numbers are true in every state - West Virginia, Oklahoma, whatever. (The framing used by billionaire propaganda, of course, calls paying thousands of dollars "amnesty".)

There's been a consensus on the matter for an eternity. Normal people would just like an end to the farce that is the current status quo, have minimum wage laws apply universally so the wages don't get fucked for everybody, and have rapers actually reported and imprisoned instead of victims having to just take it in fear of deportation.

Outside of the rhetoric, the government deported 211,068 people last year. A small drop from the 240,255 during Obama's last year. (Which is a consequence of the dwindling number of people desperate enough to want to come to this country.) Turns out Citigroup and Goldman Sachs have the exact same policy on this matter. Turns out the words their puppets cluck out mean absolutely nothing. Who could have known.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

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~60% of the country supports having them pay a $thousands fine, stay a number of years, learn the english, and become citizens. Deport'em All, only has ~30%. These numbers are true in every state
60/30 (what of the other 10%?) is a little more decisive than usual...
About 84% of Trump voters say deport'em all.
But one has to appeal to one's base!
Wonderfully, 34% of Trump voters also say "offer'em a chance for legal status." So roughly 18% of them say to do both of the things. The things that are diametrically the opposite of one another. Which is extremely Trumpy and lol worthy.
To be fair, ISTR that as being the official repub plan at one time. Undocs/illegals could apply for legal status, but they had to do so from outside the country. So deport 'em, then they get a "chance." (no guarantee about the odds of this chance)
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

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ED-057 wrote:60/30 (what of the other 10%?) is a little more decisive than usual...
Most things, such as Medicare, do break down to a 60-40 or 60-30 split. The propaganda we receive just tries to pretend it's closer than that, like with pretending there's a debate about anthropomorphic climate change. (Example: No one ever calls an insurance company evaluating a claim as a "death panel".)

The other 10% supports residency without a path to citizenship. This omits the people with no opinion on the matter.
To be fair, ISTR that as being the official repub plan at one time. Undocs/illegals could apply for legal status, but they had to do so from outside the country. So deport 'em, then they get a "chance." (no guarantee about the odds of this chance)
Honestly it's just poor poll construction. It can also encapsulate the mainstream "deport some, keep some others" position. Which can range from all the way from things like "deport mexicans, keep asians" to "deport criminals, keep people who behave".

Which would indicate the possibility of a hard "deport them all" being a rough 60 to 70% of Trump voters at best.
But one has to appeal to one's base!
Tell me about it.

I didn't watch any of the Clinton v Trump debates because... why the hell would anyone want to.... but did she and her marketing people ever enumerate clearly what they would do for their voters, or was it a bunch of "visit my website to see the weak means-tested benefit package I will recommend and not get passed for this issue"?

All I'm strongly familiar with is their final ads:

Trump: "I'm gonna kill ISIS, build a wall, get rid of the greedy corrupt bankers that have taken over the government, and bring back your jobs."

Clinton: "Please don't be a racist. I'll do good things! I promise."
Last edited by BryanM on Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

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https://youtu.be/B03MMlRF0sg

There's so much to unpack here I honestly don't know where to start. If your tolerance for bullshit isn't high enough to listen to Nancy Pelosi stammer on about anything but the topic at hand, just skip to 6:30. That says all you need to know.
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Re: Bush: 2017 Edition

Post by Mischief Maker »

quash wrote:I honestly don't know where to start.
Me neither, "This video has been removed by the user."

Was it about how Trump is now saying he's gonna flip on the TPP?
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
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