Prelude to the Apocalypse

[ED-057]

The really difficult-to-grasp idea seems to be "it is possible to openly and correctly label one party/candidate/etc. worse than another on particular grounds without being a mindless ideologue whose every criticism somehow implies that the alternative has no faults whatsoever."

Once we've established that two things are both turds, why do we have to keep talking about turds? Why can't the discussion then move ahead to cover something else that maybe isn't a turd?

Certainly, it's easier to identify problems than it is to identify solutions, but doesn't it get old after a while? The country is stuck in an infinite loop of
"I don't like option 1."
"I don't like option 2."
"I don't like option 1."
"I don't like option 2."
and nobody in the corporate media will ever say "OK. What else is there?"

[BryanM]

Once we've established that two things are both turds, why do we have to keep talking about turds? Why can't the discussion then move ahead to cover something else that maybe isn't a turd?

One thing city folk do not understand is how unacceptable the corporate democrats truly are. Yes, it's horrible the republicans appeal to blood gurgling racists as a core constituent. Yes, it's horrible that rural white people can ignore that stuff because it isn't aimed at them personally. It is also extremely horrible that once you've stripped that away and look at policy laid bare, there is not a gigantic chasm between the two.

If a miracle happened and Joe Manchin had lost the other night, I'm sure they could have scrounged up another villain to rotate in to vote alongside the Republicans 97% of the time.

One of the best arguments I've seen right-wing guys use while wading through the mucky-muck, is "if Democrats really believe in X, why didn't they do X during the year they had control of the government?" It gets lost since most people online are not well adjusted people and it gets drowned out by the assertions that our military has time traveling, teleporting invincible Dragon Ball Z powers when it comes to the Benghazi attack. But it's a good argument.

If Obama really wanted to raise the minimum wage even one single dollar, he could have gotten it. Sticking it in the middle of the State of the Union and then ignoring it the rest of time is not an effort. Going on TV and constantly going "why doesn't congress think you guys deserve a dollar? (They gave themselves way more than a dollar, don't u kno.)" is an effort.

Really inspiring, how Hillary constantly kept saying (correctly) the republicans were still going to control everything even if she won. Even if you believe she's really 10% better than our current president, Mitt Romney, it's pretty fucktarded you have to cling onto the edge of a cliff, always one election cycle away from the apocalypse.

The apocalypse is a slow burn. It was already too late ten years ago. Assured extinction is baked in - how much worse can it get?

....Besides the Elon Cubes. Mad Maxx Doesn't sound so bad once you bring up the Elon Cubes...

One big flaw in the US voting system is the lack of an "Against All" choice on the November ballot. It's a shame that you can only vote "for" a candidate, especially if you're stuck with a choice between Trump & Hillary.

The depressing thing is it doesn't matter. The television media holds the power currently. Changing the election system is just re-arranging deck chairs until that fundamental fact changes.

"No confidence" would have won the presidency in 2016 if it were on the ballot, there is not a realistic doubt on that. (Never forget: The polling said Trump had a coin flip's chance of winning. The few times they polled "None of the above" it was a blowout.) And once it won, then what?

We get Joe Biden? Or Mike Pence? Or the control of the executive office mulligans down to some other Republican?

A guy like Sanders took 10 years just to make it to mayor, and he had the enormous advantage of Vermont's open public media. And the advantage of being able to physically talk to every single person in that state face to face even when they try to run away.

Trust me, those public debates are the best. You get the lady pissed off Burlington's sewer still sucks. The guy who believes in UFOs gets to chat about it. Best of all: The fucking corporate suits have to show up. They fuckin' have to! Otherwise they won't get any screen time. And UFO guy will become the rep by default.

It's completely opposite of that most of the time. If they want to hide like a little baby coward (Joe Machin) the corporate media goes "ok no debate just 4 u lol". If the local media was gonna give Paula a soapbox for an hour, you think Joe wouldn't be there in a flash?

(A similar thing happened in the presidential primary. The Hillary people didn't want to do a town hall. (Debates being forbidden by the DNC rules.) Thought it would be cancelled without her. But no - Sanders was about to get a full hour bloc all for himself. Suddenly the hillfolk changed their mind in under an hour. Amazing how that works.)

[BulletMagnet]

and nobody in the corporate media will ever say "OK. What else is there?"

Okay, what else is there?

[BryanM]

How Many People Have to Die, Resign, or Go to Jail Before a Good Person Is President?

Still can't believe there's so many grown adults with the minds of children who think changing a figurehead changes the machine.

Even if you murder the Emperor in Return of the Jedi, there's like a million space nazis invested in the regime, you know?

and nobody in the corporate media will ever say "OK. What else is there?"

Okay, what else is there?

Um... ok.

There's the full list of 2016 presidential candidates.

Some of them are even human. And due to the monopolized process, only the Libertarian party was able to get on the ballot in all 50 states.

[Zen]

I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the game! We've been played! Ok, lets play again.
I'm wise to the . . . . . . . . . . . .

Yeah, vote in those Primarys.

Maybe the next two thousand years will be different?

[BryanM]

In 2,000 years there won't even be humans, Zen.

You understand time is a thing that exists, right?

I'm looking forward to them taking away the internet or putting us all into Elon cubes. Since that's the only way their empire stays intact.

Prior to our collective extinction date, of course. Which is sometime before 2,000 years from now.
___

Anyway, it costs me $0 and 15 minutes every two years to vote in a primary if there is anyone decent. So um... what is the opportunity cost?

You know I'd just waste that time arguing with people on the internet about how Star Wars isn't a good movie. Or something pointless like that.

I will not be one of those people who complain endlessly about how "obviously" terrible Donald Trump (a man who gets people interested in politics again, as opposed to the script that was planned) or Goldman Sachs is, without raising a hand against them.

[Zen]

I'm looking forward to them taking away the internet or putting us all into Elon cubes. Since that's the only way their empire stays intact.

I'm sure we will still be around. Just as I'm sure there will still be a BryanM, singing the lament of capitalism and class struggle of Elon cubes.

I will not be one of those people who complain endlessly about how "obviously" terrible Donald Trump (a man who gets people interested in politics again, as opposed to the script that was planned) or Goldman Sachs is, without raising a hand against them.

Do neither. You know its pointless. Give up your evil ways, brother. Let it go.
Otherwise; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFSlQrB3iGY
P.S. Listen to the whole thing, you heathen!

[BryanM]

No.

The company towns aren't coming back. Sorry.

[Zen]

The company towns aren't coming back. Sorry.

I hear, that if you say that three times in a mirror at midnight, even an old socialists faith in a classless utopia will be renewed?

Those teachers will be eaten alive and you know it. If not sooner, then later. At fucking interest!

Give up your ould sins, BryanM.

[ED-057]

Okay, what else is there?

Well, there are sane and reasonable ideas about policy, and people who would speak them (some that even hang the dreaded D or R next to their name) all of which that are systematically ignored.

Have you heard of single-payer health insurance? Or the Green Party? Remember when Dennis Kucinich wanted to impeach GWB? Remember when Ron Paul recited the Golden Rule (and was booed)? Remember when the 4th amendment said "no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, [...] and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized?" Where was the talking head on the TV to advocate any of this, and where was the oval to be filled on the ballot to vote for it?

In other news, Ray McGovern of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity was violently removed from a hearing regarding the appointment of Vladina the Impaler to head the CIA.

[BulletMagnet]

Remember when Ron Paul recited the Golden Rule (and was booed)?

Of course he was booed, that stuff is utter anathema to the yeeeaahhh fuck yooouu yeeeeahhh crowd, and especially to Paul's home-team Libertarians, who also booed when one of their own suggested that requiring licenses to drive a car might not be an entirely unthinkable idea.

This being the case, speaking for myself I would probably agree at least in part with seeing the stuff you posted acted upon or otherwise signed into law, but as you probably know a significant chunk of our voting populace - not even a majority, I'd wager, but enough to scuttle most any chance of such actions being taken - as completely unacceptable, from "death panels!" to "Better Get Your Guns". From there, if you (probably with a good deal of accuracy) see a major part of the issue as the corporatized media being unwilling to go to bat (to say the least) for any such measures, then off the cuff it would appear we need to rethink laws on media ownership, or reinstate the Fairness Doctrine, or mandatory civics classes, something along those lines, so who's taking the lead on that front, so we can rally behind them?

[ED-057]

so who's taking the lead on that front, so we can rally behind them?

That's a tough question. There are plenty of bloggers and small publishers standing in opposition to the establishment media but they are not unified in terms of their viewpoints or grievances, and none have dreams of displacing the dinosaurs. The only thing I can think of that could be considered a direct competitor or a deliberate effort to undermine them would be RT...

The media ownership laws that you mentioned have only regressed in recent times, and I think the effort to kill net neutrality has similar interests behind it. It would be nice to have some trust-busting action but, you know, regulatory capture and all that.

Newspapers and TV channels are losing money and marketshare as a natural consequence of new-fangled online stuff. But in some cases they are being subsidized by other operations (eg. WaPo ain't keepin' Amazon afloat). The internet landscape has its own handful of dominant megacorps like FB, Twitier, and Goog, in which I have similarly low levels of trust.

Hey, there's a change.org petition :/ https://www.change.org/p/boycott-the-mainstream-media

And... NakedNews

[BryanM]

The sort of hero worship so many nerds have for guys like Gates and Musk is grotesque.

With Obama, yeah I can understand why someone working 14 hours a day and no energy to even fist themselves could be ignorant of the fact that he actively fought to lower the minimum wage. (Through the natural process of inflation and deflecting away from the issue.)

These Internet People however, are supposedly able to use the oracle to answer any question they might have. Guess they really like the idea of immortality or being able to buy a hot fantasy robot girlfriend. Finding comfort in a religion.

not even a majority, I'd wager, but enough to scuttle most any chance of such actions being taken - as completely unacceptable, from "death panels!" to "Better Get Your Guns"

Why did you omit a mention of their coalition allies, the "we gotta consolidate the data centers" and "we're capitalists, that's just the way it is" people?

You're bringing up massively anti-capitalist ideas.

[BryanM]

Gina Haspel confirmed. Some of the fun things on her torture resumé:

* Beating a pregnant woman in the stomach.
* Everyone's favorite, forced rectal feeding.
* Pouring water on a naked shackled prisoner, who froze to death during the night.
* Destroyed records of hundreds of acts of torture.

She should be executed in any civilized society, but, hey. That would break decorum.

Here are the six democrats on villain rotation who went out of their way to confirm her, even though they really could have been jacking off behind a Denny's, or doing literally anything else less evil, at the time:

Joe Manchin
Heidi Heitkamp
Joe Donnelly
Bill Nelson
Jeanne Shaheen
Mark Warner
___

On a very slightly less soul crushing front, Matt Taibbi has an article about the election happening in New York district 19 right now.

It's actually possible to enjoy these stories that are about actual politics, as opposed to the Jerry Springer nonsense you see in most of the media that pretends to be politics.

[Zen]

Gina Haspel confirmed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E781QE7ZQK8

[BryanM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E781QE7ZQK8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O18NE8_x-0

[Zen]

I know, that you know, the animals cant run animal farm, my friend.
“So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late.”

When will you stop role-playing on the farm?

[BryanM]

The speculation and capitalist class sure the hell aren't farmers, and the working class aren't really cattle. Brother Orwell was just trying to be nice, since a more accurate metaphor about pimps exploiting hookers wouldn't have sold as well.
__

For the "Democrats are the lesser evil" people - we have six democrats who think it's a good and correct thing to do, to torture innocent peasants just for fun. Not even for money, which would at least serve some purpose for some people.

Why have the Democrats not punished them? Manchin alone has four committee assignments, why has he not been stripped of them? Why are they still actively giving them material support? Does this not make them equally as guilty of these crimes?

How "evil" does a Democratic party have to be, until you no longer think they're worth fighting for?

A congress critter shares a picture of his junk in his underwear with a bunch of people online, has gay sex in a public bathroom, or grabs a butt - he gets shitcanned. If he approves mass murder and torture instead, he gets a promotion. The fuck is wrong with this world.

[quash]

Remember when Debbie Wasserman Schultz stepped down as DNC chairman, publicly admitted it was over what was revealed in her emails released through Wikileaks (including but not limited to rigging the primary against Bernie), and nigh a news outlet in the country felt like covering it?

Just searching her name brings up two results for this on the first page. The rest being articles about how she called the NRA a terrorist organization, or random fluff/hit pieces. God bless America.

(Before someone says something along the lines of "Of course you'll cite Breitbart or whoever", it was actually NYT and The Atlantic that showed up on my search).

[Zen]

The speculation and capitalist class sure the hell aren't farmers, and the working class aren't really cattle. Brother Orwell was just trying to be nice, since a more accurate metaphor about pimps exploiting hookers wouldn't have sold as well.

Indeed.
As it has been your wont to use the "Farm" metaphor, I use it out of expediency.
The actual and true nature of the "relationship" is, as I have stated here before, one of predator and prey. It is that simple.
The I.Q disparity between the human predator and its human prey, is diametric in nature and answers pretty much every question your care to ponder about society, politics and religion.
To paraphrase; "it's biology, stupid!".

A congress critter shares a picture of his junk in his underwear with a bunch of people online, has gay sex in a public bathroom, or grabs a butt - he gets shitcanned. If he approves mass murder and torture instead, he gets a promotion. The fuck is wrong with this world.

My dear chap, its is a matter of etiquette.
Form, sir, form!
It isnt what you do, its . . . well, perhaps some Ella; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8fCXNTCWig

[BryanM]

I remember in this thread when someone was trying to portray FBI Director James Comey as an unbiased, neutral, trustworthy fellow. Despite those millions of dollars worth of bribes he collected in the private sector from Lockheed and and Bridgewater Associates. Which was the very definition of the "revolving door".

Now a blood god worshipping sociopath is the director of the CIA. But because the CIA is a bunch of great nonpartisan people who don't have to campaign for office assignments, guess decorum dictates we trust her words, actions, and those of the CIA 100%.

nigh a news outlet in the country felt like covering it?

One of the things that makes my brain melt is how they handle e-mail leaks. They're a treasure trove of insight of both actually important information, and hilarious salacious nonsense.

It's a given they won't talk about the corruption, but it's astronomically disappointing they won't at least share the useless gossip stuff. Like Powell's "(Bill) is still dicking bimbos." comment. You'd think that'd liven up the show and get more idiots to watch. Which is supposedly the function of private media. (Of course it really isn't. Propaganda is a loss leader - the payment received comes from policy enacted.)

Instead they just keep saying the word "emails" over and over again and speculate how we came to get a hold on them instead. (It's Russia. Not that guy who was murdered in the street a couple weeks later. Russians are devious and much more capable of accomplishing this, than a disgruntled DNC staffer with direct access to the data, don't you know.)

Everyone ends up knowing less about everything in the end. Television was the most powerful tool to educate and inform in the history of the world - somehow performed worse than some dead trees with black scribbles on them.

she called the NRA a terrorist organization

God they want to lose so badly.

[Mischief Maker]

Instead they just keep saying the word "emails" over and over again and speculate how we came to get a hold on them instead. (It's Russia. Not that guy who was murdered in the street a couple weeks later. Russians are devious and much more capable of accomplishing this, than a disgruntled DNC staffer with direct access to the data, don't you know.)

According to Rod Wheeler's report on Fox News? The guy who previously went on Fox News to say roving lesbian gangs packing pink pistols were violently forcing teens into homosexuality?

There's plenty of bad things to say about the Clintons' actual record without going all Vince Foster. Or better yet, how 'bout we don't talk about the Clintons at all because she's not the president and not running for president? Don't worry, Fox News will take up the Hillary-hating slack, I promise.

If you want to talk about snake-in-the-grass neoliberal dems who are actually relevant now, talk about Andrew Cuomo who WILL run for president in 2020 assuming Cynthia Nixon doesn't cause him lasting damage or (god willing) actually beats him. Or how about the fact that all the other establishment favorites from Cory Booker to Kirsten Gillibrand to Kamala Harris are all tacking to the left, proving that the Bernie 2016 campaign accomplished its original goal?

Jimmy Dore rots your brain.

[BryanM]

Or better yet, how 'bout we don't talk about the Clintons at all because she's not the president and not running for president?

* They're still in control of the democratic party. As the point of first contact with the actual collective owners.

* Nobody was talking about them, besides the bimbos that are being dicked, until you felt like bringing them up.

* It's really ugly to pretend that the president is the only person who matters on the planet.

* "She's not running?" ...Haha?

According to Rod Wheeler's report on Fox News?

According to Assange's wink-wink "but we don't reveal our sources".

I'll err on his winking, over the word of known liars.

Don't worry, Fox News will take up the Hillary-hating slack, I promise.

Fox News doesn't hate Hillary. They prop her up with their love. The reactionary effect of "these terrible people hate her, for disingenuous reasons, so she must be good" helped build her popularity with democratic partisans. Just like MSNBC does with Trump.

You should know this, so, uh, why would you say something so weird and false?

If it was meant as a joke... Jokes are funny because they're true.

Jimmy Dore rots your brain.

Wow. Can you find a guy who sniffs his own asshole any more than this?

No wonder Trump won.

/pushes koo-koo clock button

/looks smart and cool

/gets some of that sweet MSNBC money

[Mischief Maker]

/gets an interview with Bernie Sanders.

According to Rod Wheeler's report on Fox News?

According to Assange's wink-wink "but we don't reveal our sources".

I'll err on his winking, over the word of known liars.

“Hey Don. [jr] We have an unusual idea,” WikiLeaks wrote on October 21, 2016. “Leak us one or more of your father’s tax returns.” WikiLeaks then laid out three reasons why this would benefit both the Trumps and WikiLeaks. One, The New York Times had already published a fragment of Trump’s tax returns on October 1; two, the rest could come out any time “through the most biased source (e.g. NYT/MSNBC).”

It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It then provided an email address and link where the Trump campaign could send the tax returns, and adds, “The same for any other negative stuff (documents, recordings) that you think has a decent chance of coming out. Let us put it out.”

“Hi Don. Hope you’re doing well!” WikiLeaks wrote on December 16 to Trump Jr., who was by then the son of the president-elect. “In relation to Mr. Assange: Obama/Clinton placed pressure on Sweden, UK and Australia (his home country) to illicitly go after Mr. Assange. It would be real easy and helpful for your dad to suggest that Australia appoint Assange ambassador to [Washington,] DC.”

(emphasis added)

It fucking broke my heart when this correspondence between wikileaks and the Trump campaign came to light, but you'd have to have blinders on not to see that Assange wasn't an honest actor in 2016.

Meanwhile, a couple weeks after Sam Seder's interview with Sanders, Jimmy Dore expressed his frustration that Bernie wouldn't do his show and said he hopes Bernie loses again.

[BryanM]

The Guccifer 2.0 stuff is wacky.

An anonymous liar on the internet and the CIA (historically headed by people who've overthrown democracies. Currently headed by someone who likes to torture for fun.) saying he left an IP address from a Russian agency... it's even thinner than those murderous Iraqi aluminum tubes they were warning us about.

Certainty on that specific topic will never be resolved in any way. I'll believe in the theory that a guy with access to the mail chain and who was an owner of an $8 thumb drive just did a ctrl-c ctrl-v operation from Microsoft Outlook. Occam's razor, and all that.

Taking credit for something, posing as a l33t haXor, and then trying to "prove" it by releasing a dump of already public information. Feels like the internet in the 90's all over again, man.

It fucking broke my heart when this correspondence between wikileaks and the Trump campaign came to light, but you'd have to have blinders on not to see that Assange was not an honest actor in 2016.

Yes, this is how you're supposed to sell people things. By letting them know how great they are and how much you're helping them out. As per the topic of the hour, Bill's bimbo dicking is successfully carried out by pretending to listen and care about the women in question. That's how you get it done.

Their emails pumping democratic sources would be similar in tone. Prove yourself clean and let's crush those awful Republicans.

The way you don't sell people on things is by telling them they're garbage. Pillow talk wins.

And yes, I do think Assange viewed Trump as the lesser evil.

Meanwhile, a couple weeks after Sam Seder's interview with Sanders, Jimmy Dore expressed his frustration that Bernie wouldn't do his show and said he hopes Bernie loses again.

Wish this wasn't so blatantly spliced together to the point that I was intrigued to actually learn the actual context of "I hope you effing lose".

Wish that The Young Turds actually had a full public archive of this show available on youtube.

Wish I didn't have to take some reddit guy's post as a source to understand the context it was said in.

Sanders should not go on Dore's show. There would be no benefit. And any act that leads to no benefits, is a net loss.

He has to absolutely go on the corporate news outlets every chance he gets.

Some day we'll live in Jimmy's beautiful world where word of mouth, direct records of funding sources, and direct internet videos of a candidate will be sufficient to get someone elected. But that's not today. Just having some name recognition is everything.

Also, I really wish I didn't have to be left here thinking about spliced together "baby parts" videos now. 2016 is the cancer that will never leave us.

[quash]

It fucking broke my heart when this correspondence between wikileaks and the Trump campaign came to light, but you'd have to have blinders on not to see that Assange wasn't an honest actor in 2016.

Wikileaks as an organization has never strayed from their mission statement of exposing governments. To date, they have yet to publish a single falsehood, mostly because doing so would ruin the whole operation. The reason we know this (besides digital forensics) is that nobody has ever once called them on their bluff. Because they know that the moment they do, some even more damaging material will be released.

Wikileaks exposed the government in 2016 as they'd been doing for years. Most of the actors involved just happened to be Democrats. I'm not saying they're impartial as an organization because they have been partial from inception. What I am saying is that it's peculiar to only take notice of this once it's affected you negatively.

[Zen]

Ninja-Link.

[quash]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/05 ... s-day.html

At best, this means we're getting a sequel to "What happened". At worst, well...

[BryanM]

Can't wait for an empty primary where there's just her, against the dinosaur trying to save humanity shouting "COME THE FUCK ON PEOPLE, HAVE YOU LEARNED ANYTHING YET?!", she wins of course, and then Trump wins every state including states we didn't even know existed in the general.

There's really no reason for them to not do it again. Four years of dead old people and four years of new young people, well.. with a super delegate here and there they can still change it to their preferred outcome even if the unthinkable happens and she loses the pledged delegate count.

They're super competent enough to really do this. A jungle primary would just be a repeat of the republican 2015 primary where they pretend the guy who is obviously going to win it has a chance of losing for an entire year. Putting Biden as the point man onto a cleared field is unproven - sure he's winning by 1% or 2% of the popular vote now, but as soon as he starts yappening about how billionaires are our friends he'll crash harder than he did back in 2008. Not to even mention how 2% is not enough to compensate for the slaughter he'd receive in the caucuses.

They know they need to unite. Divided, they'll fall.

Another year of waiting I guess.

[Mischief Maker]

What did I tell you about fox news taking up the slack?

But I think the more important speech is the one she did a couple weeks ago where she said not being a socialist hurt her. Holy fuck has Bernie succeeded in shifting the overton window!