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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Andrew Yang 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Kamala Harris 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Donald Trump 31%  31%  [ 22 ]
Tulsi Gabbard 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 44%  44%  [ 31 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 70
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:48 am 


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Phew! Bernie takes NH.

The Rat put all his money into IA and NH, now it's a question if his close losses in both states can scare up more wine cave money, or if Bloomberg is going to do this to his campaign.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:05 am 


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Kinda sad I can't be on the Yang Gang anymore. Maybe it was always a state of mind.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:33 am 


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Spent a little time tonight consuming rat media. Didn't last as long as that phase I was into cat music (music written for cats).

I'm always awed at how useless and gormless primary voters are. Novelty flavor-of-the-month mouth breathers that just go along with whatever zany pokemon the TV hypes up on any given day.

Additionally: why is everyone ok with elections on week days? That's transparent rigging in favor of the elderly and capitalists - anyone with a job or class to go to is not going to have an abundance of energy to go to these things.

Quote:
Kinda sad I can't be on the Yang Gang anymore. Maybe it was always a state of mind.


In a just world he'd have been in the top four. Depressing thought experiment: His inverse form, an Andrew Yin, running in an open republican primary to take $1,000 away from poor people every month, would have probably performed better. Just from the lift TV would have given him.

quash wrote:
You, and most others here, place far too much faith in the system.


lol, I've been saying for an entire year it's very possible Sanders will win a plurality, but it won't be enough. Super delegates will super ratfuck him on the second ballot. Everyone under 40 will stop voting forever and Trump will win the next 4 elections.

I do like the optimism you're projecting, though.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm 


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You're definitely one of the more cynical ones here, but a good deal of your cynicism is misguided.

https://twitter.com/BeigeShiba/status/1 ... 88577?s=19

Whether you unironically agree with that image or not basically tells me where your cynicism originates.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:38 pm 


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FEEL THE BERN BOIZ
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:29 pm 


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Once again for the part time lurkers: Cynicism was a branch of philosophy that held "people are motivated by their self interest". It's adherents were famous for being homeless, covered in fleas, and saying stuff like "the problem with a rich man's house is there's no place to spit but his face." They also liked heckling lectures by the propagandist philosophers that spread that "people can be Santa Claus no really" canard that's still all the rage these days. (Stuff like how Bill Gates gets good press for buying a boat that costs 18 days of his passive extracted income, that a doctor would require over 2,000 years to begin to afford using his labor, etc etc.)

Because this extremely simple slide rule is so effectively powerful at dispelling so many wishful illusions, the idea had to be crushed into the ground by the powers that be.

"Cynicism" is simply a synonym for "realism".

quash wrote:
Whether you unironically agree with that image or not basically tells me where your cynicism originates.


80% of the population thinks the minimum wage should be increased. There is only one (1) presidential candidate that actually wants to accomplish that. If Obama and his right-wing wall street ghouls really wanted to increase it, they had 2 years to do so. On top of that, they've had 10 years since then to actually lobby for it, but did not.

The electorate does not reflect popular will. Only garbage people who like extreme right-wing wall street democrats and republicans are allowed to exert power. Normal people do not care about politics and therefore have zero power. We objectively do not live in a representative democracy.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:16 pm 


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You think Obama is right wing. lol. Though I guess the real lol is that we're still fighting the French Revolution and don't want to admit it.

Anyways, keep an eye on more of this sort of thing becoming common knowledge over the next few years:

https://youtu.be/nGCBMb9WJ6Y

Pretty soon this is gonna be up there with "Yeah no shit a Mossad asset had a private island where he blackmailed politicians by getting them to fuck kids, who was finally murdered in prison once he was considered no longer useful. What are you, stupid?".


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:57 pm 


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He's a self-proclaimed Ronald Reagan republican. On material grounds, he's as pro-capitalist right wing as they come. His niche exists solely to placate the working class into feeling like they're not losing as much ground as they could be. (So the bottom 80% of households can feel grateful they've only lost like 20% to 40% of their net worth instead of more.)

On empty symbolic grounds he's cosmetically different, but that only matters if one is a race-brain justice lord that cares about platitudes and cliches more than who gets a pay raise and who gets a pay cut.

Old ground we've already well trodden. When the tag-team duo of Bloomberg and Amy get selected to lose to Trump, I'll just change this into a ghostbusters thread for the next four years.



(Oh, here's something a leftwing president would do day 1 while in office: take marijuana off the FDA's schedule 1 list. Legalizing it on the federal level is literally the snap of a president's fingers away. Doesn't require congress or the courts or anything.)


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:14 am 


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Perhaps the best thing about the Obama presidency is that due to its extreme secrecy, it can be anything you want it to.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:14 am 


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The REAL state of the union: Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Apple.

One company that bleeds cash running a shopping website, one that is a government mass surveillance operation, and one that just collects rent on decades-old products. Apple is the only member that resembles an actual business, and all they do is sell overpriced phones that are made in China.

All inflated to epic proportions by federal reserve funny money. This is the pinnacle of human achievement, folks. A phone that spies on you while you shop for your next phone that will spy on you better. If that is worth trillions of dollars, how much is a dollar worth?

The merger of these entities with the state is essentially complete. They are funded by the state, disseminate the state propaganda, and conduct the state's surveillance. You can't file your state papers, pay your state fees, or apply for a job unless Google says it's ok. They are the state receptionist. And in the back room they are building the state's weaponized AI.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:37 am 


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how come liberals want to conserve nature yet conservatives want to liberally destroy it for profit


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:27 pm 


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quash wrote:
You think Obama is right wing. lol.


- He (through Biden) made Bush jr's temporary tax cuts for the rich permanent.
- He failed to prosecute Bush administration war criminals, many of whom now have returned to prominent positions in govt, including the current CIA director torturin' Gina.
- He ramped up drone strikes beyond Bush jr levels. (Granted Trump ramped them up even further, so does that retroactively make Obama left?)
- He expanded offshore oil drilling AFTER the Gulf of Mexico spill (granted he did a last minute executive order banning it in the lame duck right before Trump took office, but nobody expected that to last)
- Despite the obvious damage it was doing to Hillary's campaign, he stubbornly stuck with the TPP long after the deal was politically dead, gifting Trump the ability to cancel it and get an easy early win.
- His cabinet was chosen by Citigroup and his chief of staff was Rahm Emanuel, who called left wing activists "fucking retarded."
- He attempted (through Biden) to cut social security in the hopes it would lure recalcitrant republicans to join him in a "grand bargain" (theme song from The West Wing swells)
- His attempt to solve the health insurance crisis was a plan literally written by right-wing think tank "The Heritage Foundation" that gifted parasitic health insurance companies a captive market and no cost controls.
- He tried to get the US militarily involved in Syria.
- He exacerbated climate change by ramping up fracking.
- When facing the wall street meltdown, he was given the choice of either bailing out the homeowners and having them pay the bank debt, or giving money to wall street directly and letting homes get foreclosed, and chose the latter.
- After promising to do otherwise he failed to put on a pair of comfortable shoes and join Wisconsin workers when their right to collectively bargain was attacked by a Koch bros toady.
- His VP was a segregationist known as "the Senator from MBNA" whose life's ambition was to slash social security under the excuse of "balancing budgets" but had no problem racking up huge debts going to war in Iraq.

That's all off the top of my head, I'm sure there's more.

But on the other hand:

- He chose diplomatic de-escalation with Iran instead of going balls-deep into another Vietnam war.
- He broke the color barrier. So hooray for representation.

I dunno, on balance that still seems pretty right-wing to me.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:10 pm 


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But liberals and some leftists want some of those things you listed. War in Syria being chief among them.

Personally, I'd like to evolve past the French Revolution, but until we can figure out which team our politicians have been playing for over the past sixty years, I don't see that happening.

In other news: https://twitter.com/IsraeliPM/status/12 ... 42242?s=19


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:14 pm 


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quash wrote:
But liberals and some leftists want some of those things you listed. War in Syria being chief among them.


Have I ever denied that garbage liberals exist? How does that have any effect on Obama's policy stances?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:34 pm 


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Obama was a continuation of the status quo and nothing more, but the status quo of the 20th and early 21st century is neoliberalism. Basically, weaponizing social issues to get people to vote against their own interests while raking in the dough and treating the world as a playground for new weapons.

If you don't understand this, then you don't understand the real reason the establishment rails against Bernie. While it's true they don't want a socialist president in the US, it's probably not for the reason you think.

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1 ... 52000?s=19

Imagine this is anyone else in the current year. You'd peg that person at the very least a centrist, yet this is coming from W himself. Hate to break it to you, but he was more of a liberal than most give him credit for.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:03 pm 


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No, it's exactly why I think. They don't want to pay more in taxes. They don't want working class people to have more freedom and power. They don't want portions of markets of basic human needs taken away from them.

Yes, we've already been over their outsourcing of slavery to other countries and our out-groups, such as prisoners. I still believe Ellen when she cries at the idea of only being a petite billionaire, instead of a petite billionaire with +10% net worth.

Anyway, you can't be a capitalist and use the L word, that's our word.

The Rush Limbaugh teevee butchered propaganda version of the word just means "democrat", which is dumb as hell. Look at how Bloomberg was a republican for decades, endorsed W, but he put a D next to his name and now WOWZIE! he's a "liberal".

No shit. Almost everyone's a liberal, laissez faire capitalism is a state religion. Trump's a liberal. You're a liberal. I'm the only true leftist here~


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:58 pm 


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quash wrote:
But liberals and some leftists want some of those things you listed. War in Syria being chief among them.

liberals are about as "left" as a crooked bulls-eye and i can't think of a single actual leftist that wants war in syria lol

BryanM wrote:
No shit. Almost everyone's a liberal, laissez faire capitalism is a state religion. Trump's a liberal. You're a liberal. I'm the only true leftist here~
agreed except the last part, i'm here too :P
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:14 am 


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Hee, Kyle's having a massive meltdown at how irredeemable Liz is. I really don't know why anyone online thought there was a person in there - she said mean things to a banker one time, and that put her on Team Human? Really should have recognized that as fraudulent the second she started taking their money and doing their bidding.

As they say, at least Amy or the republicans have the decency to say I'm unworthy of oxygen straight to my face.

It's amazing how she has anti-political instincts. She tried to be a fraud leftist like Obama for a little bit, and that lost her the support of the third way ghouls. Then she flipped and tried to be more ghoulish, and lost most all the star-eyed rubes who'd hoped she was something she isn't. And now she has no one.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:28 pm 


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Do the "true leftists" on this thread support any of the following?

1. True effective tax rates (income, dividends, capital gains against total tax from all govt except property tax) of 100%? Sander's calculations of money earned on wealth tax actually rely on some individuals paying 100% tax rates despite his star "economist" Gabriel Zucman stating 75% is the max anyone can ethically accept. At rates of 100% it is no longer an issue of lifestyle choices or what you already have in the bank... it is about ownership of labor and the human right to a sense of progress for anyone who works full time. If Sanders enacted an income cap like those that exist in France and Spain he would not make nearly the amount of money he claims he will. The highest total effective tax rate paid in US history was arguably around 46% despite the rampant misinformation on this issue.

2. The nationalization of healthcare industry without compensating the investors in the abolished businesses? The European Convention for Human Rights outlaws the govt. taking over any business sector without compensation of said companies. It doesn't matter how much money companies made... it concerns whether the govt. can take control over private or public industry without purchasing it from the people who purchased shares in that business. These companies will not go bankrupt so they cannot pay out to those shareholders. Sanders wants us to be more like Europe except European law would consider him an authoritarian if he actually did what he claims he will (he won't).


Bernie's proposals highlight what radicalism really is. There is nothing that radical about it... just a lack of important details. People who appear far divided on issues are always ignoring the finer details. In reality those two polarized sides are totally codependent on one another because they mutually shun anyone who goes into the complexities of any given argument. When the details get hashed out it becomes obvious that people aren't really that far apart at all. "Radicalism" is just reductionism... people jumping from one emotional impulse to the next in an effort to evade the finer points that actually challenge their deliberately simple points of view.

There are many positives to a Bernie presidency but who is really going to get more people the optimal healthcare coverage and debt relief they need?


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:16 pm 


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OdiousTrident wrote:
Do the "true leftists" on this thread support any of the following?

1. True effective tax rates (income, dividends, capital gains against total tax from all govt except property tax) of 100%? Sander's calculations of money earned on wealth tax actually rely on some individuals paying 100% tax rates despite his star "economist" Gabriel Zucman stating 75% is the max anyone can ethically accept. At rates of 100% it is no longer an issue of lifestyle choices or what you already have in the bank... it is about ownership of labor and the human right to a sense of progress for anyone who works full time. If Sanders enacted an income cap like those that exist in France and Spain he would not make nearly the amount of money he claims he will. The highest total effective tax rate paid in US history was arguably around 46% despite the rampant misinformation on this issue.


Misinformation? Like you throwing around numbers without posting any sources?

That kind of disinformation?

You've also have not bothered to seperate income tax from wealth tax--and I have a sneaky suspicion you couldn't identify the difference when you clicked the "post" button.

Not even Piketty's final chapter of Capital in the Twenty-First Century suggests a true 100% tax rate, by the way--and that was the most exteme general policy suggestion I've seen from anyone qualified to speak on the matter. (That particular group of qualified individuals wouldn't include crackpot lunatics like Arthur Laffer or Karl Marx.)

You're disingenuously quoting the cost of a national health service without removing the expense of health care premiums. Basically, you are quoting a "double charge" for health care based on current income after health care costs. That's disingenuous.

OdiousTrident wrote:
2. The nationalization of healthcare industry without compensating the investors in the abolished businesses? The European Convention for Human Rights outlaws the govt. taking over any business sector without compensation of said companies. It doesn't matter how much money companies made... it concerns whether the govt. can take control over private or public industry without purchasing it from the people who purchased shares in that business. These companies will not go bankrupt so they cannot pay out to those shareholders. Sanders wants us to be more like Europe except European law would consider him an authoritarian if he actually did what he claims he will (he won't).


We sent our entire manufacturing business overseas without "compensation" for workers. That didn't stop the economy.

Cry me a river.

The wealthiest decile holds 84% of the stocks in America.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/busi ... onomy.html

Compensation isn't necessary, given that stocks are known to be a risk. Investors won't be compensated for Coronavirus, either. That's why we call it "risk".

Furthermore, there will be plenty of runway before any health care industry transition. We all know the losses will get shifted to small investors and 401k's. Basically, it's the same thing as the last financial crisis--except working people get something for their money this time.

I don't give a sh*t about the pain of the transition. We spend too much and get too little. It has to change. The status quo is wasteful and ineffective.

Also, stop comparing American politics to European politics. It's not the same thing. If Sanders somehow did manage to get enough votes in Congress to pass a bill, that's not authoritarian. Executive orders don't provide a means to create universal health care, so I have no idea what you're going on about. (You don't either.)

I don't make a habit of chiming in on Boris or Merkel's succession plan, so let's all stick to what we know.

OdiousTrident wrote:
Bernie's proposals highlight what radicalism really is. There is nothing that radical about it... just a lack of important details. People who appear far divided on issues are always ignoring the finer details. In reality those two polarized sides are totally codependent on one another because they mutually shun anyone who goes into the complexities of any given argument. When the details get hashed out it becomes obvious that people aren't really that far apart at all. "Radicalism" is just reductionism... people jumping from one emotional impulse to the next in an effort to evade the finer points that actually challenge their deliberately simple points of view.

There are many positives to a Bernie presidency but who is really going to get more people the optimal healthcare coverage and debt relief they need?


Run on back to Mother Jones now, Republican.

Next, you'll be posting "election results" from a contest where the Associated Press refused to certify and declare a winner. ;) Normally, Americans love to waggle their finger at other countries for such irregularities at the ballot box. I guess the AP's blessing only matters in "commie" countries.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:31 pm 


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OdiousTrident wrote:
There are many positives to a Bernie presidency but who is really going to get more people the optimal healthcare coverage and debt relief they need?
tell me what politician you'd suggest to do this (or would be willing to do this) that isn't Bernie. i'll wait
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:36 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
(That particular group of qualified individuals wouldn't include crackpot lunatics like Arthur Laffer or Karl Marx.)


I don't know much about Luftwaffe doctrine, but the income tax, specifically with progressively higher brackets (so those who benefit the most from the state pay for the state), is right out of the Communist Manifesto. Just like crazy insane communist stuff like public schools and not sending small children to die inside coal mines.

Elimination of sales tax never happened though. So I guess this one's still a net wash.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:04 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
OdiousTrident wrote:
Do the "true leftists" on this thread support any of the following?

1. True effective tax rates (income, dividends, capital gains against total tax from all govt except property tax) of 100%? Sander's calculations of money earned on wealth tax actually rely on some individuals paying 100% tax rates despite his star "economist" Gabriel Zucman stating 75% is the max anyone can ethically accept. At rates of 100% it is no longer an issue of lifestyle choices or what you already have in the bank... it is about ownership of labor and the human right to a sense of progress for anyone who works full time. If Sanders enacted an income cap like those that exist in France and Spain he would not make nearly the amount of money he claims he will. The highest total effective tax rate paid in US history was arguably around 46% despite the rampant misinformation on this issue.


Misinformation? Like you throwing around numbers without posting any sources?

That kind of disinformation?

You've also have not bothered to seperate income tax from wealth tax--and I have a sneaky suspicion you couldn't identify the difference when you clicked the "post" button.

Not even Piketty's final chapter of Capital in the Twenty-First Century suggests a true 100% tax rate, by the way--and that was the most exteme general policy suggestion I've seen from anyone qualified to speak on the matter. (That particular group of qualified individuals wouldn't include crackpot lunatics like Arthur Laffer or Karl Marx.)

You're disingenuously quoting the cost of a national health service without removing the expense of health care premiums. Basically, you are quoting a "double charge" for health care based on current income after health care costs. That's disingenuous.

OdiousTrident wrote:
2. The nationalization of healthcare industry without compensating the investors in the abolished businesses? The European Convention for Human Rights outlaws the govt. taking over any business sector without compensation of said companies. It doesn't matter how much money companies made... it concerns whether the govt. can take control over private or public industry without purchasing it from the people who purchased shares in that business. These companies will not go bankrupt so they cannot pay out to those shareholders. Sanders wants us to be more like Europe except European law would consider him an authoritarian if he actually did what he claims he will (he won't).


We sent our entire manufacturing business overseas without "compensation" for workers. That didn't stop the economy.

Cry me a river.

The wealthiest decile holds 84% of the stocks in America.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/busi ... onomy.html

Compensation isn't necessary, given that stocks are known to be a risk. Investors won't be compensated for Coronavirus, either. That's why we call it "risk".

Furthermore, there will be plenty of runway before any health care industry transition. We all know the losses will get shifted to small investors and 401k's. Basically, it's the same thing as the last financial crisis--except working people get something for their money this time.

I don't give a sh*t about the pain of the transition. We spend too much and get too little. It has to change. The status quo is wasteful and ineffective.

Also, stop comparing American politics to European politics. It's not the same thing. If Sanders somehow did manage to get enough votes in Congress to pass a bill, that's not authoritarian. Executive orders don't provide a means to create universal health care, so I have no idea what you're going on about. (You don't either.)

I don't make a habit of chiming in on Boris or Merkel's succession plan, so let's all stick to what we know.

OdiousTrident wrote:
Bernie's proposals highlight what radicalism really is. There is nothing that radical about it... just a lack of important details. People who appear far divided on issues are always ignoring the finer details. In reality those two polarized sides are totally codependent on one another because they mutually shun anyone who goes into the complexities of any given argument. When the details get hashed out it becomes obvious that people aren't really that far apart at all. "Radicalism" is just reductionism... people jumping from one emotional impulse to the next in an effort to evade the finer points that actually challenge their deliberately simple points of view.

There are many positives to a Bernie presidency but who is really going to get more people the optimal healthcare coverage and debt relief they need?


Run on back to Mother Jones now, Republican.

Next, you'll be posting "election results" from a contest where the Associated Press refused to certify and declare a winner. ;) Normally, Americans love to waggle their finger at other countries for such irregularities at the ballot box. I guess the AP's blessing only matters in "commie" countries.


I am not a conservative in any way. That should be clear. I might actually vote for Bernie because I think the authoritarian positions I outlined above may just be a lack of deep research or deliberate dumbing down of his message to make it more saleable. Any authentic support for the positions I outlined above should alienate anyone who values human rights on any level.

The idea that wealth tax is separate from income tax has nothing to do with whether you give all the money you made to the govt. at the end of the year or not. That is what the French courts realized when they created an income cap on wealth tax. Everything I have posted can be confirmed with a quick google search. The fact that you have not been exposed to it does not mean it is disinformation. More than half of the "evidence" posted in this thread is youtube videos and I am positive I have better sources.

Authoritarian actions can be voted for in democratic process and history has plenty of examples. Authoritarianism in this case is the removal of basic rights from any group of people regardless of their privilege or status. Ownership of what you have purchased is a basic right. The idea that the removal of rights is OK if they're voted in democratically should be disturbing to anyone.


Last edited by OdiousTrident on Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:10 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
orange808 wrote:
(That particular group of qualified individuals wouldn't include crackpot lunatics like Arthur Laffer or Karl Marx.)


I don't know much about Luftwaffe doctrine, but the income tax, specifically with progressively higher brackets (so those who benefit the most from the state pay for the state), is right out of the Communist Manifesto. Just like crazy insane communist stuff like public schools and not sending small children to die inside coal mines.

Elimination of sales tax never happened though. So I guess this one's still a net wash.


Marx never presented evidence to back his claims and Laffer didn't either. Neither man meets my criteria for a proper economist.

Both men advanced common sense arguments (with a grain of truth in there) without data to back it up--and followed individual bias and ideals to conclusions.

This Zucman clown has done something similar--although I would argue it's worse. Because, it's very likely that Mr. Zucman doesn't actually believe what he's saying. He crosses the line from crackpot to propaganda. I know taxes can reduce the incentive to work and I know that there is an natural imbalance of power between employees and owners; those things exist. On the other hand, arguing that America wouldn't save money with universal health care is a fat lie.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:12 pm 


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OdiousTrident wrote:
I am not a conservative in any way.


lol

Mother Jones is your true home. I nailed it. :)

OdiousTrident wrote:
Any authentic support for the positions I outlined above should alienate anyone who values human rights on any level.


You said you value guaranteed returns on investments over human lives. Human rights, indeed.

lol

OdiousTrident wrote:
Ownership of what you have purchased is a basic right. The idea that the removal of rights is OK if they're voted in democratically should be disturbing to anyone.


Enforced property rights are a basis for a functional economy, not a human right. Furthermore, you conveniently put a cap on how far into history you looked to declare the "rightful owners" of American soil and resources. Your moral argument quickly splinters into an argument on morality itself. It's rubbish.

Also, your convenient broad definition of "authoritarian" action is nothing more than a flimsy cheap device that you employ to criticise any law you personally disagree with. It's (also) rubbish.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:03 pm 


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Just came across this twitter thread: https://twitter.com/moorehn/status/1089612026484281349

fire emojis
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:38 pm 


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Oh, Mike....

The classic question: If Bloomberg (R) was president right now, would you support Donald Trump (D) to go against him. And of course the party partisans would, it's just a sports game to them where you root for your team. We're seriously at the [nothing matters] point here..


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:12 pm 


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If Bloomberg gets the nomination I might go full BryanM.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:34 pm 


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If it were Klobuchar, The Rat, or Biden, I'd hold my nose on election day.

But if it's Bloomberg, I honestly think I'd do a Sanders write-in.

Way to go, democrats, you've finally produced a candidate shitty enough to make me go Bernie-or-Bust!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:02 am 


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If Bloomberg gets the nomination I might go full ED-057.

Mischief Maker wrote:
Way to go, democrats, you've finally produced a candidate shitty enough to make me go Bernie-or-Bust!


bustin'


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