quash wrote:
Because you are, again, getting overly defensive and trying to obfuscate what everyone already knows.
Well, if you kindly dispensed with the scapegoating and painting all of us migrants with the "Dey took er nashun!" brush, maybe there wouldn't be counterpoints being raised to the twisted rhetoric that resonates with your feelings. I see your information gathered from the echo chambers you like to frequent, and I raise you my own experience. Once more, I wanted to know Rob's answer, because yours is the same every time.
quash wrote:
I am not collating anything. It's difficult to find data on exactly what goes on in regards to illegal immigrants receiving benefits, in large part because much of it is done by proxy. Which, according to you, doesn't count. To anyone who isn't deeply invested in maintaining the status quo, though, it's clear as day what the end result of our welfare policies is.
Ah, the classic "I totally didn't mean what I totally meant to say when I said it" backpedaling. If it's not clear, then stop speculating. Does it happen? Yes. Does everyone do it? No. ("But I'm not speculating; I'm only making a statement based on uncertain information that seems to be in line with my feelings"

)
quash wrote:
Obviously they qualify because our laws have changed to accommodate legal immigrants.
Something of note from an official government source:
https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/artic ... ns-receiveFrom that same article: They can get emergency medical care, ability to obtain a permit to hunt and fish (which dissuades poaching and requires proof of having hunted before), immunizations and labor standard laws so that no one is treated like a slave; while being barred from unemployment insurance, continued medical care and tuition assistance programs; Medicaid requires proof of citizenship. Sounds actually fair, you know, considering all this has been reviewed by authorities and people who know and enforce the law. Doesn't seem like that would deprive a Purple Heart veteran from receiving tuition help to get his Master's degree.
Quote:
Whether illegal aliens can obtain state benefits is not clear-cut. The short answer appears to be that they are not legally entitled to most benefits, but do in fact receive them.
And here's the sentence following that quote:
Under federal law, any alien who is not a "qualified" alien is ineligible for state and local public benefits. To be qualified one has to be here under asylum, admitted for permanent residence, or fit another limited federal category. Boom, baby. Checks and balances, who would have thought it? What was that thing about obfuscating, again?
quash wrote:
By the New York state government's own admission, there are people illegally collecting welfare that has been illegally granted to them. It then goes on to explain one of the ways it happens.
Quote:
A fair interpretation of the federal statute and state regulation must result in the conclusion that illegal aliens should not receive any form of state public assistance. However, illegal aliens do, in fact, receive state public benefits. That's because the burden of determining lawful status in the U.S. is on the shoulders of county social services employees who have neither the legal jurisdiction nor the practical ability to determine one's immigration status. Only an immigration official or federal worker whom the Secretary of Homeland Security has authorized may determine the immigration status of a person in the country.
So, there you have it. I don't want to hear anymore about how illegal immigrants don't get things they don't qualify for because they clearly do.
Oh, what a very clever way of wording it: "Social services employees cannot check for immigration status, therefore illegal aliens
must be getting benefits!" Except that pretty much any of those agencies requires documents to be shown to prove elegibility, even if they aren't authorized to check immigration status. Sorry, but you can't tell
me that I can simply walk into an office and request unemployment, food stamps or SSI by showing my Mexican passport. My counterpoints above (especially the ones from the source you listed) and all the documents that my sister in law (A DACA recipient) had to show, and the strict process required so that my citizen nephews could get WIC benefits say otherwise. My experience > your cherry-picked info. Also, an immigrant getting emergency medical help is the same as theft? What the hell, dude?
quash wrote:
Never getting off of it, for starters. Also, using the money to support illegally residing friends and family. I could go on.
Then don't go on. If you see something, report it. But again: Not all of them do it, and there are penalties in place for that.
quash wrote:
Don't worry, there's plenty of government defrauding to go around. That's kinda why we don't need people from other countries doing it for us.
Same response as the prior one.
quash wrote:
Am I back in 2016? Why are we still saying this? Two different people can read the same thing and reach different conclusions.
That's a good point to ponder, because there's the chance your cherry-picked arguments can be proven wrong.
quash wrote:
Technically, no. Practically, it absolutely does. Let's not even get into the legality of that child being a citizen to begin with, because I have a strong hunch that our insane birthright citizenship policy is going to come to an end within our lifetimes.
Don't get your hopes too high; it takes more than an executive order to amend the constitution. You know, the same constitution that grants you benefits and protections solely for having being born here.
quash wrote:
Yes, it absolutely does. Because when perfectly capable people who were born and raised in this country by citizens who paid taxes their entire lives are being pushed to the side for children of people who didn't contribute nearly as much, if at all, you're stretching (at best) the limits of the social contract between citizens and government. If not for the relentless propagandizing on this issue for over half a century, few would even question what I'm saying here. Most sane nations do not offer birthright citizenship for exactly this reason.
Newsflash: You have paid less taxes than someone else in this country, and I've paid more taxes than someone else, so let's hope that scenario where citizenship should be proportional to the amount of taxes paid by someone's parents, never comes to happen. Also, since I've demonstrated above that you only post the part of the arguments that support your allegations (because surely an immigrant getting a fishing license is robbing a Purple Heart veteran from the therapy they need, ohnoes.), please show me who are these citizens being pushed aside by these "undeserving" children and how. Now, you may not like hearing this, but those children are as much citizens as you are, and deserve the same rights and protections you got without having done anything but simply be birthed here.
Now, if it troubles you so much, I would sincerely encourage you to
do something about it besides simply repeating the same song Tancredo and Co have been playing for years. Just keep one or two things in mind: We're not all like that. We're not evil. We're not thieves. The vast majority of us are too damn proud and stubborn to debase ourselves into becoming dependent on the government, because our work is our pride and our life.