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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:39 am 


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Can you play Deracine without VR? And if you can, would it be a mistake?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:05 pm 


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Déraciné requires the whole kit & kaboodle. Not just the PSVR device, but the PS Move controllers as well. It is definitely not an amazing enough game or experience to justify the cost of all that, but if you were on the fence about buying into PSVR anyway and lack of software was the only thing holding you back maybe this could be enough to push you over. Like I said, the thing is okay. I'm not even really sure there's a point to watching a playthrough unless you're super curious, as the experience is lost when you aren't surrounded by the environment the game offers.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:17 pm 


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Necronopticous wrote:
but the PS Move controllers as well

Controllers? As in plural?? :S


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:30 pm 


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One for each faerie hand.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:59 pm 


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So there's this really cool classic From Software moment in KF4...

As you're exploring the cave of the weevils (serpent guys) you come across three "defeated" knights camping in a shelter. One of them talking about how he's always hungry because it's impossible to find any food.

Spoiler: show
If you come back later (and I only discovered this by chance, long after completing this area), he'll be blocking the entrance with his back turned to it, while still eating. You can easily tell that he's beginning to turn into a serpent himself (supposedly all the ones in the area are humans transformed by the empress). If you stab him from behind he just falls over and disappears, and there's nothing else in the room.

Of course it's heavily implied that he ate his friends :P

Did anyone ever try doing anything to change this outcome? I guess, namely killing him the first time you find him.
This is the only NPC I've tried attacking on purpose btw. There are a couple others I figured would be cool trying to fight, but I can't bring myself to it.


Last edited by Sumez on Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:14 am 


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Yeah that was a crazy dark moment. Good ol' fromsoft.

Especially with THAT music.

Might even be worthy of spoiler tags ;)

also, forgive me for posting this shite :mrgreen: ..
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:16 am 


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Sumez wrote:
This is the only NPC I've tried attacking on purpose btw. There are a couple others I figured would be cool trying to fight, but I can't bring myself to it.

It seems Demon's Souls / Dark Souls were the games to bring this idea to its Crestfallen conclusion. Shadow Tower Abyss has an item behind an NPC, which you can only get to by killing him, I recall. Straightforward in a way, but also kind of dumb.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:24 am 


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Eh? I don't remember that, was it proto-patches across the bridge in the water area?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:33 am 


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I don't use guides much, but I came across the treasure trove in KF4, and this other guy got there and looted most of the place before you get there, selling all the high end armor, aside from a helmet that he missed. Going in there, you find a ton of gold in some of the remaining chests, so I figured I was probably expected to buy it from him - but it's really expensive, so I wasn't sure if it's really the ultimate gear, or I'll find something better later. Tried looking to guides for this purpose (without looking ahead to avoid spoilers), but couldn't find anything.

So turns out that just a few minutes after buying two pieces of said gear, I find a whole bunch of even better gear in the next area I go to.
Moral of the story: Never. Buy. Gear. From. Shops. In. King's. Field. Games.

Ed Oscuro wrote:
It seems Demon's Souls / Dark Souls were the games to bring this idea to its Crestfallen conclusion. Shadow Tower Abyss has an item behind an NPC, which you can only get to by killing him, I recall. Straightforward in a way, but also kind of dumb.


I think it's KF3 where you have to(?) hit a guy like 200 times to nudge him out of the way so you can get a flask and a pair of greaves (which he can also sell to you) behind him. I'm not sure if he can be killed though? I tried to avoid it by using a weak weapon with only low-stamina blows :P
I think you can also skip the termite "quest" in KF2 by doing the same thing to the mother blocking the entrance to the village.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:47 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Eh? I don't remember that, was it proto-patches across the bridge in the water area?

Nope. It's a "monster."
Sumez wrote:
Ed Oscuro wrote:
It seems Demon's Souls / Dark Souls were the games to bring this idea to its Crestfallen conclusion. Shadow Tower Abyss has an item behind an NPC, which you can only get to by killing him, I recall. Straightforward in a way, but also kind of dumb.

I think it's KF3 where you have to(?) hit a guy like 200 times to nudge him out of the way so you can get a flask and a pair of greaves (which he can also sell to you) behind him. I'm not sure if he can be killed though? I tried to avoid it by using a weak weapon with only low-stamina blows :P
I think you can also skip the termite "quest" in KF2 by doing the same thing to the mother blocking the entrance to the village.

Those are interesting tips, though they sound like sequence breaking bugs to me.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:04 pm 


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You can kill the characters in these games, most just have absurdly high amounts of HP. I talked to someone who made it into the poison tunnel in KF3 by killing the guy who's blocking your path (instead of waiting for an event trigger later on to cause him to move). I'm pretty sure that's not unintentional.

Like I said, I'm sure killing the guy I talked about in KF4 earlier on would have had some kind of effect, but apparently no one tried it? :\


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:44 pm 


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Managed to finish King's Field IV, however, it's clear that I'm missing something...

I never found a way to "return the light" to sir Salvor's sword.
I also never found a way to break the seal on the sealed pieces of armor you find around the game.
And I missed two of the crystals that you learn magic from (I think a Fire and Air?). Something somewhere in the game hinted that mastering all magic could open a door or something?
You find both a stone and a wand for creating a warp point after what appears to be the last save point in the game...

If I recall correctly there were also a few doors or chests labeled "forest dweller's", but I never found a forest dweller's key, but all my key slots are filled up.

The ending was weirdly abrupt. Does the game have an alternate ending like KF3?

Man it's disheartening to know that I only have one game left of this "project". But at least I know it's a great one - and the only one I've previously played more than just a little bit.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:46 pm 


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I think the game gives you a bad ending if you haven't got the moonlight sword and returned it to its former glory?
I think that's beyond the king's door or something in that area.

Yeah i never found all the magics in the game either.
I'm sure there's a forest dweller's key but I can't remember now, played this one before ST. o_o
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:49 pm 


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Yeah, I figured I'd be able to "restore light to the sword" in the light themed area, but playing it to the end just got me another light crystal, a message from the King, and some relic armor along the way.
I feel like I'm missing out on some important hints about what to do due to the terrible PAL translation.

EDIT: Jesus christ, I just recalled there was a huge sealed door at that place, that I couldn't open and meant to come back to later... >_>


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:00 am 


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Spoiler: show
..Are you looking for the darkness, too?


Read that and was like.. "holy shit."
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:13 am 


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Ok went back to the sealed door, and crossed four things off aforementioned list :)

Used the eyes, upgraded the sword (to the "divine sword" or something, not the sword of moonlight :P)
This in turn allowed me to get all five pieces of sealed armor, and an actual ending.

Not that exciting though. At least KF3 got you an extra boss fight. :) Would have loved to actually put my new weapon and armor to good use.
In general, I feel the game has a ton of items and, especially, skills that never really end up being useful for anything. There's both magic and an amulet that can light up the darkness. But the only actual dark area I found in the game was that super short corridor (with nothing in it) right before a boss fight...

Unless mastering all the magic spells actually does something interesting, I guess I'm done with this game.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:34 am 


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Tried KF4 again, ran away screaming even faster this time.

Who the HELL thought that these controls were OK?!?! It's almost totally unplayable, with movement and look direction bound together on one stick and then the rest of look direction on the other stick (or shoulder buttons), and you can't change what the sticks do (and PCSX2 also doesn't seem to, at least as far as I can tell). Developers making 3D dungeon crawlers on the fucking SNES knew how it was supposed to work (all movement on D pad, turn left/right on shoulder buttons), dual-analog first person had been well standardized by the time this was released, I have literally no idea how From fucked this up so badly other than the possibility of severe cognitive delays from lead in house paint.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:16 am 


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Ok.

In PCSX2, open Config > Controllers (PAD) > Plugin Settings and then tab over to Pad 1 to see your bind options. You can bind each direction for each analog stick separately, which will let you sort out the analog sticks to your liking. Or not. Lilypad also has mouse input but I'm not sure if that works for FPSing controls.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:07 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Unless mastering all the magic spells actually does something interesting, I guess I'm done with this game.


Heh you know, i never found out. Either i couldn't be bothered or couldn't immediately find a guide that detailed where each spell was.

Obscura wrote:
Tried KF4 again, ran away screaming even faster this time.

Who the HELL thought that these controls were OK?!?! It's almost totally unplayable, with movement and look direction bound together on one stick and then the rest of look direction on the other stick (or shoulder buttons),


Oh does the dpad not work in KF4?
Fun fact, I played all of ST:A using the left analog. ^_^
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:03 am 


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I remapped the D-Pad in game (using the D-Pad for movement on an X360 pad is unbearable)... and it also changed what the left analog did. Currently ignoring the right analog, and playing left analog + triggers, SNES Dungeon Master/Eye of the Beholder style. Works out anyways, since I can hold down the sprint button a lot and not worry about having to have that thumb moving my view at the same time.

Spoiler: show
So far, I've made it into the forest warrior crypt and opened the shortcut back to the village, a shortcut which blew my mind, especially since I had already gone back to that area and seen the other side of the canyon right after getting the pick axe. I've got two spells, Fireball and Purify. I've got a crystal vial, but haven't found a way to actually put water in the temple fountain, so it's not doing me any good.


It's weird how a game this bleak can display flashes of humor. Really dark humor, but humor nonetheless.
Spoiler: show
Seeing the corpse of the girl's father under the cave in, carrying the rock of life he was looking for to save his wife
... man, that's come cruel irony. The
Spoiler: show
well of poisoned water in the catacombs
is another great example; just this random one-off jab that gleefully trolls the player, and then an NPC warning them about it, but the NPC is on the wrong side of the jab, so you get warned about it five seconds after falling for it. Brilliant.

Is there any reason to keep the Caretaker's Map instead of just selling it for the cash? It doesn't seem complete or detailed enough to help that much...


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:16 pm 


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Question to all you pre Soul's From games addict : in which game was a character à la Snuggly the Crow Croaa Croaaa first introduced ?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:56 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Oh does the dpad not work in KF4?


Yeah it does. I never once used an analog stick in KF4. Maybe that's Obscura's problem?

Obscura wrote:
Is there any reason to keep the Caretaker's Map instead of just selling it for the cash? It doesn't seem complete or detailed enough to help that much...


Just sell it if you don't need it. The maps are mostly useless in this game, but as I mentioned earlier on I think they add a lot to the game's world building, and I guess it's nice to crosscheck that you didn't miss anything. :)
Cash is never really an issue in this game. You don't need to buy gear anywhere, but it's always nice to be able to get more healing items.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:12 pm 


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guigui wrote:
Question to all you pre Soul's From games addict : in which game was a character à la Snuggly the Crow Croaa Croaaa first introduced ?

I don't know about the King's Field games, or Eternal Ring, but there is a talkative animal in Shadow Tower. I don't think you trade anything to it though.

The original trading crow is in Demon's Souls.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:35 pm 


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I was kinda wondering about that; in KF4, in the village, I found what looked like a bird's nest on the rafters of a trashed building, but couldn't find a way to jump to it (sprinting from the rampart left me falling just short). It looked like a perfect setup for Snuggly to appear, but I guess not!


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:31 pm 


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There is another one of those close by. They are just there to contain an item - you can shoot it down with any kind of projectile you have access to.

Other items later in the game can also be shot down with projectiles... one in particular took my a while to realize, after having spent ages looking for a secret path to get around it.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:08 am 


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Ah, ok; I'd seen several other "shoot down the item with a projectile" bits, didn't realize that was one of them.

Finally got the teleportation wands (and, by extension, access to the magic water which totally obsoletes the health healing water thanks to the healing spell); I feel like I've finally gotten a foothold, almost 8 hours in! Of course, there's at least three directions I can think of where the game makes it seem I could make real progress (go back to the center through the silver gate and drop the drawbridge to the south side; do more stuff in the king's tomb/throne room, since I still haven't killed the boss in that area and there's also a room with a bunch of the "tribal" demons that wasted me on my first time there that I haven't gotten back to; teleport back to the green stone [I teleported there after getting the wands, and opted to keep the stone there so I could get back there easily if I found a magic circle] and continue from my first expedition in that area), so it's not like I've done a lot more than just get that foothold...

Also, all of you who like this game REALLY need to play Arx Fatalis (with the Arx Libertatis fanpatch, of course). It hits a lot of the same buttons, but is better executed in general IMO.

EDIT: A kind of spoilery question that's been weirding me out now that I've gotten a bit further (it has to do with what happens after you grab the Green Wand)
Spoiler: show
Am I wrong, or can you get stuck in an unwinnable position if you grab the Green Wand, teleport to the Green Stone at its initial location, take the stone, go to the Earth Folk hollow, and take the teleporter there to some other stone with the Green Stone still in your inventory without opening the lava-trap or the portcullis to the Silver Gate? It seems that you'd be unable to get back to the Earth Folk area since you have to open up both the portcullis to the area from the Silver Gate from that side and the lava-trap also has to be opened from the Earth Folk side, and it seems like the only two ways in are "initial teleport" or "through the Silver Gate". This didn't happen to me -- I left the green stone in place until I knew I had a path back to the center of the Ancient City and thus could get there without teleporting if need be -- but it seems like a kinda sloppy bit of design to let someone fuck themselves over like that.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:54 pm 


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Fun fact about Shadow Tower Abyss: It doesn't support Dualshock controllers made for PS1, even though Eternal Ring and KF4 both do.

Fun fact about Dualshock 2 controllers: I have three of them, and none of them work. Sony garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:34 am 


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The real-time 10 minute wait for repairs is one of many factors starting to make me really hate KF4. I suspect I sequence-broke a bit (I did the Widda Temple before going back under the flaming arrow bridge for the Engineer's Key), but this game is starting to really turn into a drag. The shore and pyramid on it were awesome, and probably the coolest thing in the game so far, and the underwater caves were cool aside from that asshole who took one of my Crystal Vials in return for a worthless armband, but the Widda Temple and Engineer Quarters are just a total drag, and the Egg Fields look like they will be too (I'm already hating the minecarts).

Also, that twin serpent boss is total bullshit and obviously meant to be a "guide-seller". "Herp-de-derp puzzle boss equip the right thing or die"... I hated that shit when it appeared on DS3 bosses, and it's even worse here, since they neglected to add a single hint as to what the fuck you're supposed to do. Thank fuck for Gamefaqs.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 am 


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Either I or a speedrun video I watched just shot the twin sneks?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:37 am 


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Yeah what did you equip to deal with those? I tried the anti-poison stuff but it didn't really work, so I just shot them with fire which was pretty easy...

What guy are you able to give a flask away to?!


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