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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:27 pm 


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I haven't played many Souls-likes outside the actual Souls games, but I had played Code Vein for a few hours last year and was enjoying it. Sort of had the fun zapped out of it though when I got to an earlier boss, was barely doing anything for damage (even after grinding for quite a bit), and I just came to the conclusion that the game was simply not balanced for solo play. They really push the companion option in the game but give you the option to play alone, so that's how I went in, like a Souls game. I'd be curious to hear from other people that have experience with the game. I meant to go back to it but never did.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:42 pm 


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Austin wrote:
and I just came to the conclusion that the game was simply not balanced for solo play. They really push the companion option in the game but give you the option to play alone, so that's how I went in, like a Souls game. I'd be curious to hear from other people that have experience with the game. I meant to go back to it but never did.


I haven't played CV, but this is not the first time I've heard this complaint.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:51 pm 


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I had the exact same experience with Code Vein. It's easy solo then you hit the bosses...

My big issue with non-From games in this genre is well that they aren't fucking From games I guess. It's hard to quantify but I don't think I've finished one that wasn't by them whereas I've done multiple runs of everything From even DS2.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:13 pm 


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Oh mannnn I had high hopes for weeb souls as well!

Give me solo or give me death!
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:03 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
My big issue with non-From games in this genre is well that they aren't fucking From games I guess. It's hard to quantify but I don't think I've finished one that wasn't by them whereas I've done multiple runs of everything From even DS2.


No sir, you hit the nail on the head. If you're going to imitate the best than it had better be damned good. Otherwise where is the incentive to play said game? Why do I want to play a shitty From clone when could be playing DS or BB?

I would really like Morbid to be good, but truth be told I would be more surprised if it actually is.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:20 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
My big issue with non-From games in this genre is well that they aren't fucking From games I guess. It's hard to quantify but I don't think I've finished one that wasn't by them whereas I've done multiple runs of everything From even DS2.


No sir, you hit the nail on the head. If you're going to imitate the best than it had better be damned good. Otherwise where is the incentive to play said game? Why do I want to play a shitty From clone when could be playing DS or BB?

I would really like Morbid to be good, but truth be told I would be more surprised if it actually is.


Yeah it sounds elitist but it is what it is. From has ruined other games in the genre for me. And I do mean specifically this exact style. Stuff like Ys is different enough that I can still play it.

From what I can tell the God Hunter games have the same issue as CV, they are designed around multi-player but I am only interested in playing solo. I tried Nioh and idk, I dropped it.

This is almost the only genre I can think of where I have this problem. The other genre is, of all things, pinball video games. I can pretty much only play the two Kaze games on Saturn. Whenever I try another, I just can't help but think I'd rather be playing Necronomicon or Last Gladiators. No other genre comes to mind where every other game was ruined for me by SHEER PERFECTION. Some genres like grid based rpgs are just kinda hard to fuck up I think though I do have my favorites, Fire Emblem and Super Robot Wars.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:17 am 



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After the announcement of the remake, I decided to play Demon's Souls again on RPCS3 to refresh my memory of it. The game runs beautifully for the most part, with some minor visual problems. I installed a mod to get rid of those god awful mid 2000s bloom and blur effects and played the game at 1080p 90fps. Image quality was clean and crisp.

The game is still fun, but feels quite dated in a number of ways.
    -Item burden is annoying to deal with.
    -Some attack animations look amateurish/don't feel "weighty" enough, especially backstabs and ripostes.
    -Lots of bosses just aren't that interesting to fight. I'd say Flamelurker, Penetrator and Allant are pretty good... and that's about it.
    -Lots of gimmicky bosses (One at the end of every world except 1-4).
    -4 way rolling only while locked on.

This got me thinking about the mechanical changes that might be made for the remake.
    -Will item burden still be a thing? Maybe. They'll probably just automatically stash items that won't fit in your inventory into storage.
    -The animations definitely need to be reworked. They would look completely out of place on a next gen game.
    -Quality of life stuff from more recent games will probably be included. Things like holding the item switch button to go directly to the first slot, consuming more than one soul item at once from inventory and so on.
    -Online matchmaking rules will probably be a little more strict, and take weapon upgrade levels into account. Password matchmaking will probably be included so friends can easily play coop.
    -I wonder if bosses will be redesigned. It feels like a lot of them just aren't that threatening.
    -Maybe the sixth archstone will be accessible?

What kind of changes are you expecting?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:20 am 


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Austin wrote:
I haven't played many Souls-likes outside the actual Souls games, but I had played Code Vein for a few hours last year and was enjoying it. Sort of had the fun zapped out of it though when I got to an earlier boss, was barely doing anything for damage (even after grinding for quite a bit), and I just came to the conclusion that the game was simply not balanced for solo play. They really push the companion option in the game but give you the option to play alone, so that's how I went in, like a Souls game. I'd be curious to hear from other people that have experience with the game. I meant to go back to it but never did.


I tried that. It talked. And talked. And talked. Then it let me play for ten minutes, then it talked some more and I deleted it.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:33 am 


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Wooph wrote:
-Some attack animations look amateurish/don't feel "weighty" enough, especially backstabs and ripostes.


Huh, the ripostes are more satisfying than others in the series imo.

Quote:
-Lots of bosses just aren't that interesting to fight. I'd say Flamelurker, Penetrator and Allant are pretty good... and that's about it.
-Lots of gimmicky bosses (One at the end of every world except 1-4).
-I wonder if bosses will be redesigned. It feels like a lot of them just aren't that threatening.


Yeah I see this as a problem when souls veterans who didn't have ps3s (a huge amount, i think) go to play the remake. DeS, and to an extent DS1 hadn't developed into the combat mould that later games would have. The all action fight really culminated in Artorias in the first game I feel, he's kind of the archetypal 1v1 souls boss.

The lack of this in DeS has always made me say it's the easiest game in the series, combat wise; maybe generally, too. (caveat: assuming it isn't someone's first souls game).

So I foresee the gimmick bosses in DeS remake really turning longterm fans off, and can see the "This is a disappointing old game" articles coming out already.

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-4 way rolling only while locked on.


Same with Dork Souls 1. I Fight unlocked most of the time.
You know what's fun 'tech?', inputting an attack then locking on so the game corrects you mid-swing.


Quote:
-Maybe the sixth archstone will be accessible?


Doubt it, but here's hoping.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:36 am 


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Marc wrote:
I tried that. It talked. And talked. And talked. Then it let me play for ten minutes, then it talked some more and I deleted it.


:lol: that gave me a chuckle.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:11 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Marc wrote:
I tried that. It talked. And talked. And talked. Then it let me play for ten minutes, then it talked some more and I deleted it.


:lol: that gave me a chuckle.


Same, haha. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:40 am 


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Code Vein is crazy cheap at the moment, which is probably not a good sign for this kind of game. I agree that the Soulsbourne games kind of ruin everything else in this subgenre.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:30 pm 


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what they ruined the subgenre by creating it?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:00 pm 


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Marc wrote:
I tried that. It talked. And talked. And talked. Then it let me play for ten minutes, then it talked some more and I deleted it.


This is also true. When I am playing these games, I'm not interested in reading a fucking novel.

Blinge wrote:
The lack of this in DeS has always made me say it's the easiest game in the series, combat wise; maybe generally, too. (caveat: assuming it isn't someone's first souls game).

So I foresee the gimmick bosses in DeS remake really turning longterm fans off, and can see the "This is a disappointing old game" articles coming out already.
dick pic


OLD GAMES SUCK WHO PLAYS THEM ANYWAY. PLEASE ONLY BUY NEW GAMES THEY ARE THE BEST.

What a crock of shit that review is. I think there was a zeitgeist element to Shadow of the Colossus. Like, you had to be there when it first dropped it was truly stunning. But it's still a fine game now.

Blinge wrote:
what they ruined the subgenre by creating it?


Basically yes. All the knock-offs just feel like they are missing something.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:11 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
what they ruined the subgenre by creating it?


And perfecting it first try. Witchfinder General are a perfectly good bluesy, doomy British rock band from the early 80's, but it's impossible to listen to them and not to notice they simply aren't as good as Sabbath. 'Soulsbourne' demonstrates a very subjective and idiosyncratic set of conventions that are easily identifiable and yet hard to effectively apply. It obviously hasn't spring out of nowhere, and these, what, five games share a lot of DNA with old school dungeon crawlers, roguelikes, JP character action games and of course the Kings Field series. If anything these Souls-like games kind of remind me of Euroshmups; often perfectly serviceable, but will always be compared unfavorably by those savvy to the genre as a whole to the precision and conservatism of certain Japanese shooting games.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:57 pm 


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Fair.

Though there are those out there who swear down that Nioh is the better series.
So might be worth a try.

( obviously i would have them burned at the stake without ever trying it myself )

anyone tried Salt & Sanctuary?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:39 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Fair.

Though there are those out there who swear down that Nioh is the better series.
So might be worth a try.

( obviously i would have them burned at the stake without ever trying it myself )


We call those people chuds.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:55 pm 


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Nioh is great, absolutely worth a try. I'd even say most of the boss fights are notably better than the general average from the "soulsborne" series.
Nothing else is anywhere near the level of From's products though, but aside from the atrocious inventory/loot system, it's generally enjoyable and completely inoffensive.


Last edited by Sumez on Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:22 pm 


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Blinge wrote:

anyone tried Salt & Sanctuary?


Saw it years ago (before I even played DS), couldn't run it and forgot about it. Then you reminded me of its existence.

It's sitting with close to 10,000 reviews on Steam and the general consensus seems to be it's really good.

Purchased and installed. I know very little about it. Looking forward to a blind play through of something like this.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:30 pm 


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Tried Nioh twice. Couldn't be bothered to play more than an hour or so.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:02 pm 


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Nioh seems to be either a love it or hate it kind of game. I don't usually hear opinions that fall in the middle. Still haven't tried it myself but intend to some day.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:27 pm 


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I loved the moment-to-moment gameplay of Nioh, but found the bosses so hard I gave in. There was some harpy thing a few hours in that destroyed me so many times I didn't have the heart to go on bashing my head against it.

Played through Salt & Sanctuary, got around halfway through and got bored. The maps aren't very memorable so trying to trek from one area to another gets very tedious, and I found a lot of bosses could be bypassed by rolling underneath them, poking once, and retreating for infinity. The entire style of the game just didn't work for me in 2D. I've also got to say I hate the art style.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:41 pm 


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Marc wrote:
There was some harpy thing a few hours in that destroyed me so many times I didn't have the heart to go on bashing my head against it.


This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s51xMdXJLs
(my first embarassing attempt against the NG+ version)

It's a pretty easy boss if you just take it easy and watch for openings. But you can get owned pretty quickly if you get cocky. It takes a while to learn, as do most bosses in the game. But I generally find them quite rewarding and varied.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:48 pm 


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For the good of the Blinge's From thread I began my trip through Salt and Sanctuary last night.

No map? Check.
Just enough of a tutorial? Check.
Sense of wonder and dread? Check
When I died I knew it was my fault? So far check.
No hand holding? Check.
Wordy item descriptions? Check.

I spent about three hours with it last night. And while I haven't played any other Souls like for comparison this one feels like it checks all the right boxes.

There is a character creator, but like DS it seems to only affect what you start with. I probably picked one of the harder ones, if only cause it was a nod to one of Ska's previous games.

You have your standard weak and strong attack, you can one or two hand weapons, and there are off hand items also.
Block, parry, jump, and roll are here too.

The combat feels similar to their Dishwasher series in that weapons have their own combos, but have a weighty quality when striking those games lacked. So when you equip a new weapon it is up to you to experiment just a little to figure out what it it can do.

You level up in Sanctuaries as they are your safe haven. You aren't safe anywhere else, and no you can't pause the game. When you level up with salt (which increases your max HP) you get these orbs that you can spend on an elaborate and cool looking skill tree. The skill tree ultimately decides your stats and build. Your stats and what they do are:

Str - Improves Str weapons damage
Dex - Improves Ski weapons damage
End - This actually improves the amount you can carry and isn't tied to the green bar as usual.
Willpower - This affects your stamina bar.

Magic and wisdom seem to be the acr and bt of the game in that you should probably avoid them the first time around, but they could be easy mode. Not sure. There does seem to be a fair amount of build variety, but at this point I don't know if any are broken or worthless.

The level design seems to be totally on point. Some locked doors and shortcuts have been found and opened and the world seems to double back on itself making things that seemed far away much easier to get to.

I faced off against the first boss only. I'll call him skill check. While I only died twice trying to find him he made me re check my skills about 25 times. The run back was only about 10 seconds so..

There is no co op or invasions to speak of, but there is a really well fleshed out notebook component in the form of messages in a bottle that you can leave for other players. I found a fair amount of messages from others, so the game seems to still have a user base.

I am definitely looking forward to traveling further..
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:05 pm 


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I passed over Salt & Sanctuary because it was made by the guy who made The Dishwasher, and looked very similar in style. I found that game to play awfully, but maybe I should give this one a chance?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:15 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I passed over Salt & Sanctuary because it was made by the guy who made The Dishwasher, and looked very similar in style. I found that game to play awfully, but maybe I should give this one a chance?


What put you off about The Dishwasher? It has been years, but I played a lot of that game when it came out.

I dug the fast frenetic combat and brutal finishers. I do remember the weapons being a one way street though.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:08 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Marc wrote:
There was some harpy thing a few hours in that destroyed me so many times I didn't have the heart to go on bashing my head against it.


This? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s51xMdXJLs
(my first embarassing attempt against the NG+ version)

It's a pretty easy boss if you just take it easy and watch for openings. But you can get owned pretty quickly if you get cocky. It takes a while to learn, as do most bosses in the game. But I generally find them quite rewarding and varied.


That actually doesn't look bad at all and makes me want to play the game instantly, as in right now.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:57 pm 


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It *is* good! There are lots of things that are less than great about Nioh, which makes it unable to approach the sweetness of From's series (I mentioned the loot system, and the padding of the game via reuse of areas and bosses, and a lack of enemy variety definitely count down, too), but the souls-like gameplay is not one of those. IMO its usage of stamina bars on enemies is handled better here than it was in Sekiro.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:17 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Blinge's From thread


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:28 pm 


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Austin wrote:
Nioh seems to be either a love it or hate it kind of game. I don't usually hear opinions that fall in the middle. Still haven't tried it myself but intend to some day.

I'm pretty in the middle on Nioh. The core action gameplay is absolutely phenomenal, and the character creator in the sequel is second to none but almost everything else slowly chips away from my interest until I inevitably drop the game and never return. It drives me insane because there is a fucking fantastic video game in there, but it is buried in six feet of garbage that you have to continually rifle through to engage with it.


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