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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:21 am 


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Most of the Souls runbacks don't bother me too much, because like Blinge said you do sort of grow more and more efficient with each run and it gives you a sense of personal progress. I'd go so far to say I actually enjoy the runbacks in Bloodborne. It helps a lot if you don't give a shit about losing your souls, because then you can play it really risky and try out interesting new strategies. The runback -> boss loop feels a lot like save state routing in a shmup the way I approach it.

That said...

Bananamatic wrote:
there is nothing "hardcore" about wasting hours on mundane shit with zero difficulty


I agree with this 100%
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:54 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Still some runbacks are in the series are ait, you get good at them. They become more efficient, you dodge enemies better, or kill them more and more efficiently.

The only runbacks that require some effort (never played Demon's Souls):

Spoiler: show
Velstadt pre-sotfs: effortless in sotfs for some unknown reason
Iron Keep Smelter post-sotfs: excessively buffed in sotfs for some unknown reason
Old Dragonslayer post-sotfs: if you didn't unlock him before killing the Dragonrider and you're there early, have fun with all the heide knights AND the dragon while you have next to no estus, easy if you know to unlock the boss gate before Dragonrider
Frigid Outskirts: no
Sir Alonne: actually good
Iron Passage before blue Smelter: actually good

coincidentally all are in dks2


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:04 pm 


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Bananamatic did you know there is a shameful gaming confessions thread?

If the horses had zero difficulty surely you could have killed them. Seems like as you were before you are being edgy for the sake of it so sure okay Dark Souls 2 is the best or something. I would agree wasting hours on mundane shit doesn't prove anything. I've got a hot tip for you tho

Spoiler: show
Kill Lud and Zallen on the first try.


Okay I'm done being a wanker for now.

Blinge I do not know unfortunately. I friend sent me the link and I've never played the game because I'm not really interested in Star Wars. It's now on my radar for when it hits $10 at least.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:59 pm 


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pointing out that runbacks get significantly harder when you remove door/lever interaction iframes is being edgy? Practically all of those aside from the Alonne runback would be trivial if the iframes were still in the game

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
If the horses had zero difficulty surely you could have killed them.

I clearly listed it as one of the hard ones


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:29 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
pointing out that runbacks get significantly harder when you remove door/lever interaction iframes is being edgy? Practically all of those aside from the Alonne runback would be trivial if the iframes were still in the game


Idk, I despawned the 2nd and 3rd ones (in scholar, of course) without too much trouble. In an effort to better understand, what is your exact problem spot with those runbacks? Guessing maybe having to pull a lever to bring down the scaffold or w/e you wanna call that stuff but I was actually grinding that run because it was so easy for me.

Bananamatic wrote:
I clearly listed it as one of the hard ones


I was just being a dick but I'm off it now.

Austin wrote:

I mean, that's cool and all, but I suppose he could get the same effect out of playing any of the other Souls games where he could very much do the same thing. Plus, shooting a giant dude with arrows is pretty different from, say, avoiding the silver dragon's fire while dealing with multiple enemies on the runback to the Old King Allant, or spending 30 minutes lost in the caves of Stonefang Tunnel, only to end up at the Flamelurker and die before knowing the short[er] way to the fight, or dealing with the absurdly lengthy run down to the Old Hero from the Adjudicator archstone in the Shrine of Storms, getting whacked by rolling skeletons at a mile a minute while also getting rammed from behind by stingray projectiles (before finding out on his tenth time through that the Thief ring really helps there), or getting one-shot by the Dragon God, even though the Dragon God didn't actually hit you.. etc., etc.

Either way, I'd be curious to hear his thoughts when he finishes the game (if he does or has already done).


A few days ago his PS3's blu drive died in the middle of playing and PS3 data transfers are hilariously bad. Believe he got caught up in a crappy online game again, but I will try to remember to update when he is done.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:09 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
In an effort to better understand, what is your exact problem spot with those runbacks? Guessing maybe having to pull a lever to bring down the scaffold or w/e you wanna call that stuff but I was actually grinding that run because it was so easy for me.

Nothing, just pointing out how barely any runbacks in the whole series take actual effort compared to just being a complete time waste as a punishment (as if pre-patch bloodborne loading screens weren't enough)...though sotfs still confuses me with the adjustments, it nerfs things that never needed nerfing especially that late in the game and turns early game areas that were perfectly fine into hellzones where you need multiple weapons or repair powders just to reach the boss, then the difficulty drops off for no reason again

Then From removed runbacks from Sekiro entirely because they either figured out they were pointless to begin with or even more pointless when you can easily spiderman across entire levels in 20 seconds, I don't remember anyone complaining about the statues several steps away from major bosses not being hardcore enough


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:34 pm 


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Banana's right. I think I did the horse valley without NPCs but it's probably the most poorly designed piece of garbage I've seen in a game in as long as I can remember. Just unbelievably bad from start to finish with literally nothing good that can be said about any of it.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
I don't remember anyone complaining about the statues several steps away from major bosses not being hardcore enough


No, but neither do i remember anyone saying the other strawman stuff you've been saying.
I wouldn't ask for more runbacks or defend them as great souls gameplay

they're just a thing. I like them how they are in the games they're in. Some are annoying. That's videogames.
there's my hot take lmao.

Also Steam you beat zallen and lud first try dafuqqq? Solo??
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:46 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Also Steam you beat zallen and lud first try dafuqqq? Solo??


I hope I don't look like a summon using bitch.

Honestly don't remember if it was my first or second try. Just a hot tip so you don't have to do the runback.
Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:16 am 


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Holy shit gets real after you down
Spoiler: show
False Corrupted Monk

with
Spoiler: show
Ghost Nightjar spawning
in the most inconvenient fucking places. Met the first group guarding
Spoiler: show
the entrance to the Gun Fort to go along with two Okami clan and a Snake Eyes.
Then I found three? more on
Spoiler: show
Mt. Kongo hanging out with the fucking two straw that guys.


Jeez. Yes I'd like more broken glass on my shit sundae please. I mean I don't have any reason to go back to
Spoiler: show
Kongo
, but still. I wonder if snap seeds would work?

I was able to kill everyone guarding the
Spoiler: show
gun fort
, but it took me three or four tries and I definitely died during the fight I managed to succeed.

After that is when I went to
Spoiler: show
Kongo
cause [redacted]. I reached the stairs and did a double take. I didn't want any part of what I saw, but I pose
Spoiler: show
stealth and puppeteer is an option


If I get curious..
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:57 am 


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Try that room where you met centipede man in kongo
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:04 am 


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Blinge wrote:
No, but neither do i remember anyone saying the other strawman stuff you've been saying.

Which stuff? I heard all of those things a lot

Also the whole "first try" is highly subjective, there's a massive difference between using a raw build with a slash weapon on top of that and stacking sunlight blade, leo ring with a rapier, flynn's and eating a brightbug on top of that, you'll kill the first cat in 6 hits or so
I did a greatlance faith build once and the damage was so ridiculous throne watcher died in 4 hits, definitely easier than using phantoms with a worse build


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:32 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Try that room where you met centipede man in kongo


I'm currently trying to see (sort of an optimal run order) as much as I can before I fight
Spoiler: show
Owl
again cause everything looks so damn cool in the twilight.

On my first play through I (unknowingly) did most of the things for
Spoiler: show
Return Ending
, but did none of the
Spoiler: show
eavesdropping for the purification ending.


Basically I am progressing both as far as possible before I fight
Spoiler: show
Owl
.

My next major boss encounter however will be
Spoiler: show
Ape.
None of the bosses have given me too much trouble (died once to Lady Butterfly and once to False Monk), but like seeing
Spoiler: show
fucking Nightjar everywhere
I am prepared for a boss to give me a hard time. Hopefully that isn't how it goes down.

Anyway as far as
Spoiler: show
Nightjar Ghosts go
I'm just gonna suck it up and think my way through. Now that I've seen them twice I am expecting to show up at the most inopportune times, basically anytime there is a strong regular enemy or what was dead space in NG. For instance I am anticipating running into some between
Spoiler: show
Ape's watering hole and the Great Serpent.


I am definitely returning to
Spoiler: show
Kongo
though.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:13 pm 


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I bought the whole King's Field series a year or so ago but am only just getting around to playing KF4 (I'm playing the PAL version, which makes an already slow and contemplative game absolutely glacial). I love it so far. After playing the first three I wasn't expecting it to impart the same feeling of being unsure about how various items interact or why certain things are happening in the world, but it totally does. Someone in the mines early on said they heard a loud crash, like a cave-in, so I was expecting some path to be blocked off, but instead a path to the graveyard had opened up (some hike away from the mine). There was a great moment where, slogging through an underground graveyard, I came across a fountain of crisp blue water. I rushed over, took a drink and immediately became poisoned. I spoke to an old man sitting nearby who said "You'll get poisoned if you drink that water. It looks awful." I hope it maintains this power to misdirect and bamboozle. It certainly retains the series' tendency to punish anything less than thorough exploration; your first magic spell costs an entire metre to cast unless you've found a certain bracelet, and at that early stage refilling the metre is an expensive business. I've been enjoying how "KF1" a lot of the architecture and level design feels, too - I was thinking this as I explored the underground graveyard, which I thought seemed very similar to KF1's second floor, and which was proven quite astute when I opened up a 10x10 room jam packed with skeletons.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:46 pm 


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NG+

Spoiler: show
Harambe down. Took four or five tries. Far less than NG. Had two deaths on the 2nd phase cause I got greedy and terror'd. Shit though his first phase with EMD? 10 seconds if you get it right. Ako, confetti, run up, EMD, few hits, follow him, firecracker, and another EMD does it.


Unlike my NG play through though

Spoiler: show
I am not waiting till later, we gonna finish shit real soon. Going to try and kill the other ape first this time.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:09 am 


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Klatrymadon wrote:
I bought the whole King's Field series a year or so ago but am only just getting around to playing KF4 (I'm playing the PAL version, which makes an already slow and contemplative game absolutely glacial). I love it so far. After playing the first three I wasn't expecting it to impart the same feeling of being unsure about how various items interact or why certain things are happening in the world, but it totally does. Someone in the mines early on said they heard a loud crash, like a cave-in, so I was expecting some path to be blocked off, but instead a path to the graveyard had opened up (some hike away from the mine). There was a great moment where, slogging through an underground graveyard, I came across a fountain of crisp blue water. I rushed over, took a drink and immediately became poisoned. I spoke to an old man sitting nearby who said "You'll get poisoned if you drink that water. It looks awful." I hope it maintains this power to misdirect and bamboozle. It certainly retains the series' tendency to punish anything less than thorough exploration; your first magic spell costs an entire metre to cast unless you've found a certain bracelet, and at that early stage refilling the metre is an expensive business. I've been enjoying how "KF1" a lot of the architecture and level design feels, too - I was thinking this as I explored the underground graveyard, which I thought seemed very similar to KF1's second floor, and which was proven quite astute when I opened up a 10x10 room jam packed with skeletons.


sounds amazing. i still haven't played KF4. I've mainly held off cause i'm not sure if i want to play the PAL version, but i don't think my crappy laptop can really deal with PS2 emulation. i should probably just go for it... i'm sure the pal version is fine and i'll love the game either way.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:56 am 


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Yeah, I reckon you should go for it! After the initial shock of taking 4 hours to turn your head 90 degrees you settle in and start to enjoy the thing at its own pace. When you're not fighting you can hold the run button for as long as you like, too, which helps a lot. I wouldn't say it's been "optimised" at all but the borders are slim and unobtrusive. I'd love to grab a US copy at some point but going back to 50hz for this one hasn't been too painful. :P

Ed: the level design has shifted to KF2 (JP) territory now. This area with the big stone guardian is extremely similar to KF2's enemy garrison, with the exact same ideas about where to hide items, etc. It's beginning to feel like a best-of/remake!


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:17 pm 


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I'd love to compare the PAL and NTSC versions of KF4 some time. I played the PAL version also, and it does feel atrocious. With the run button held you move about as fast as you do in KF2 without running, and that game is already slow.
The thing is though, that the game is obviously optimized for the PAL format, using up the entire vertical resolution which is really rare for European releases, even for 3D games. So there's a chance the US version was actually just as slow.

I completely agree though that even though it feels painful at first, at some point you just stop noticing it, and get lost in the amazing world of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:45 pm 


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Spent the morning with
Spoiler: show
Owl


First was
Spoiler: show
Great Shinobi Owl, took me three or four tries on NG+ after we got reacquainted. That said he seemed to have a new move or two? Or is my memory fuzzy?


Now I'm at
Spoiler: show
Owl Father. Got to his second phase after maybe ten tries. It started to click once I started taking the fight to him. Ichi - side step and punish. Learned how to punish him the hard way naturally. Been doing most of my heavy punishes after his missed Ichi. He recovers pretty quick from Mikiri

Anyways saw phase two once and was like whoa (I also met him after a three hour session, kind of my limit and I needed to take a break) but I'll figure it out. After meeting him here I can't help but feel that the fights with Owl are easily the best in the game along with SS. Can't speak for the Shura ending, haven't gone for it yet.

Definitely more later. I love this fucking game.

EDIT - Like where the battle takes place, Owl Father is but a memory. Great return to Hirata, really made it feel new even though you have been there before.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:18 am 


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Wow. NG took me over 80 hours, granted I took my sweet ass time and walked a lot to soak the beauty in..

Anyways NG+ will wind up taking me far less than that. 15-20 when all is said and done.

Since my last post -

Spoiler: show
Went to Fountainhead and fought CM again. I think after Owl (both) this one is my favorite. It was over quick, think I died once.

After I get the Shura ending (next playthrough) I may consider the boss rush mod. Some of them are just dope.

Got the tears, went back, killed Ninja at Serpents Shrine 9thought it was cool he mentioned revenge for killing his buddy at Hirata) and Red Guard Mcdrunkerton (forgot he had armor so it took way longer than it should have. Duh - Why is mortal draw doing so little damage?).

Then I worked my way down to the reservoir. The only thing between me and SS is Seven Spears. Going to try and kill him legit this time. I'll stealth his mate, but no puppeteer if I can manage.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:51 pm 


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it seems like i'm approaching the end of sekiro, i've

Spoiler: show
just killed the big dragon, isshin is dead in kuro's chamber and everywhere in ashina castle is more or less on fire.


the further through this game i get,
Spoiler: show
the less i understand why anyone is attacking sekiro, or why he was down a well at the beginning of the game. he seems to be a vassal of ashina, but all the ashina are trying to kill him.... does this ever get explained?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:24 pm 


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Cause he's trying to rescue Kuro from their de facto leader, Genny?

But yes Sekky does seem to singlehandedly wipe out Ashina's best men and leave them very vulnerable. You'd think Ishin would be less blasé about that.

when the shit hit the fan I was rooting for Ashina way more than the ministry.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:08 pm 


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yeah, it makes sense till you meet isshin. why would he be all buddy buddy though? i don't get it.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:43 pm 


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Spoiler: show
Cause he's disappointed by Genny to some extent yet won't move against him as he's his heir and the best man for the job.
Ishin believed in Ashina fighting with its strength alone, not mumbo jumbo, not dragon's blood or rejuvenating waters.

His meddling only led to Sek's initial plan to steal Kuro back and escape.

Ishin.. seems not to really care anymore, has found some sort of peace it seems?
Like, he's a character that's been through countless wars and been a legendary killer, but isn't becoming a Shura demon like others who walked his path. That suggests peace to me.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:56 pm 


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Burinju why does
Spoiler: show
YOUNG ISSHIN fight you at the end? My good friend has a giant boner for these games and I watched him play Sekiro over Christmas while drinking all his booze! The old dude is all "GRANDSON, U SUCC BIG DICK, BUT SINCE YOU FINALLY KILL URSELF IMMA TAKE UP YOUR BLADE - COME AT ME SEKIRO" then he goes "BWAARGH, MAGNIFICENT, DO IT 2 ME NAO" when he gets beat! (I like how he pulls a fucking gun on Sekiro LMFAO, that is pretty fuckin gangsta Image)

Did he just want a good scrap? Or was he compelled in some way? Or was it even him - not just some idealised phantom from GENICHIRO-KUN's magical wish foundation??? OMFG, it's like my favourite game Silent Hill 2!

Resurrection as YOUNG BUFF STUD Isshin better not have been his plan all along! It would make him less cool IMO. I got really attached to his TENGU escapades, old dude sneaking out of his sick room to drop motherfuckers left and right before running back to get drunk and reminisce. I know the feeling. :sad:


^^^STORY SPOILERS, NOOBS GTFO
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:13 pm 


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Great General Birrusan.
This is too much, knowing that you could've played Sekkyboyz yourself but instead lived it vicariously and drunk!
y u do dis 2 mi =[

Endgame spoilers
Spoiler: show
Honestly your ideas are probably as good a guess as anyone's..
"Did he just want a good scrap? Or was he compelled in some way? Or was it even him - not just some idealised phantom from GENICHIRO-KUN's magical wish foundation??? OMFG, it's like my favourite game Silent Hill 2!"

I think the wanting a good scrap is the best idea, or maybe Sekiro performing immortal severance will kill prime Ishin too, as Sekky's trying to remove all the immortals. when Sekiro wreckiros himself he says " i hereby condemn the last immortal."
So I think combine that with the fact that an Ishin in his prime once more is enough to fuck up Japan's army, rally Ashina and perpetuate the bloodshed for another life time. There's an element of not wanting his grandson's sacrifice to go to waste either
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:37 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Spoiler: show
So I think combine that with the fact that an Ishin in his prime once more is enough to fuck up Japan's army, rally Ashina and perpetuate the bloodshed for another life time.


Metal as FUCK Image Image

Quote:
Spoiler: show
There's an element of not wanting his grandson's sacrifice to go to waste either


The feels! Image I loved that line,
Spoiler: show
"My pitiful grandchild..."


Haha don't worry, I spoiled Battle Garegga for myself and I'm still going Image when ERUPTOR hits twenty years on. Image
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:39 pm 


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In the "shit I forgot to mention" category -

Spoiler: show
Made good on killing Guardian Ape sans head (it's still his name damn it!) immediately after pushing his shit in down in the watering hole. Also made good on killing backup ape first. Wasn't too hard. When G Ape sans head screams backup ape jumps in - easy firecracker to face and mortal draw. G Ape sans head fell shortly after. Took me five or so tries.

Did aforementioned stuff. Running around Ashina Castle tying up loose ends - killed Seven Spears Orenstein legit this time, both health bars, two tries. Amazing how things change when you have a grasp on parrying. Funny thing too - the Seven Spears at the tower? Had no trouble with him on either play through, just this fucker last time.

OH OH OH - in other shit I didn't do in my first play through - I finally managed to kill...drum roll...Demon of Hatred. Took about ten - 15 tries. Didn't change much really - Fire umbrella, ako's, confetti. Holy fuck though the last half of his last health bar was harrowing:D I had no estus and my resERECTIONS were blacked out. I ran around shitting myself, used a juzo, die, use another juzo, and after 20 or so seconds (felt like an eternity in Sekiro time) I was finally back on my feet. Only had two or three spirit emblems left but was able to back him into a corner and not die while I whittled the rest of his final bar away.

Sword Saint is all that is left. I have the items to do both purification and return though I am sure it matters little which I choose.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:50 pm 


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BIL wrote:

Haha don't worry, I spoiled Battle Garegga for myself and I'm still going Image when ERUPTOR hits twenty years on. Image


hahah. noted but.. god damn eruptor just sounds horrible

can't that mate of yours letcha play bloodborne ?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:53 pm 


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Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12943
Location: SODOM
Yeah, but it FEELS AMAZIN :O

I'm saving BB for later, I own that one and wish to subscribe to its newsletter. ;3 "Beasts all over the shop" and some tittering slappers who won't let me indoors on the night of the hunt, fuck yeah. It's just like IRL!
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