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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:21 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Blinge wrote:
While I agree with the movesets, i don't know what you mean by memorable.
What was a "terribly difficult" fight for you in BB? I assume this is non-DLC like usual?
What makes a memorable fight in a series/genre that you only ever play once and then drop?

I've said it before, and honestly think the bosses is one of Bloodborne's weakest points altogether.
I don't think there are any "terribly difficult" ones, but that's honestly fine to me - I don't run on tough-as-nails bosses. I'm pretty sure I've never played any other Souls game where I managed to take down as many bosses in the first try.

The said, I had a very difficult time with Gascoigne. But I think that was mostly due to me still being unfamiliar with the game at that point.


I'd pretty much agree with this. The tougher fights have pretty much all been DLC or optional. Some of the named hunters you can fight are quite a bit more challenging than many bosses imo.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:31 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I've said it before, and honestly think the bosses is one of Bloodborne's weakest points altogether.
I don't think there are any "terribly difficult" ones, but that's honestly fine to me - I don't run on tough-as-nails bosses. I'm pretty sure I've never played any other Souls game where I managed to take down as many bosses in the first try.


You haven't told me what constitutes a 'memorable' fight. Unless you're talking entirely subjectively and literally like "one that i remember," an answer I can't care about.

So you don't want tough as nails bosses but bloodborne's bosses were weak because too easy.. ok ?

Eh, I strongly disagree. The game I had the lightest time with was DS3.

What weapon were you using? I think Flogger mentioned he was using Ludwig's sword? That thing does seem to destroy ebrietas, it has a huge vertical swing that's decently fast, easy to hit her head and has hella damage. The same cannot be said of at least half the weapons.

I'm trying to think back to my first playthrough. Cleric beast is.. meh
Gascoigne is awesome.

Bloodstarved is decent fun - poison can be a bit of an annoying gimmick. Beat him first try, that doesn't make me dislike the fight tho smh, it was by the skin of my teeth and felt epic.

Amelia - was a problem for me, again, big and lots of visual confusion.

Witches - a gimmick boss? I don't mind that, and i read it as another take on Fool's Idol.

Shadows - I can see how they'd be a problem for a lot of players. Certainly not a sleepwalk.

Rom -well.. she's memorable, for one reason or another.

One Reborn.. ehh. Tower Knight 2. He's really not good at killing you. I watched someone just spam him with a kirkhammer and win. But he's visually super cool, especially with that intro.

Amygdala - Yeah i got to this one way too late, i think being overlevelled ruined it, i didn't need to think at all or even aim for the arms/head like you're supposed to.
But doing the version in the defiled chalice makes you respect it a lot more.

Logarius Cool fight.

Ebrietas Maybe i'm just butthurt about struggling with her more than you guys did. That rush attack is hard to dodge. I'll die on this hill, with tentacles up my ass.

Micolash - Haha. fuck you, that was memorable :x ! I like the concept of such a troll boss. I actually died to him around 4 times on my blind play, maybe more. I understand you should only get caught by the Tentacle attack once.. but I can see people getting overzealous or not leaving enough stam in the tank to dodge it.
Also if he used that fucking call beyond/ laser spell it has often one-shot me. I still can't deal with it now, it homes in, hits at multiple stages so either there's a specific way to dodge that I never learnt or you're just fucked.
if at any point i'm pushed out of melee range I have to interrupt his cast with a pistol shot

Wetnurse - well I beat it first time. I would've said meh, but i've gone back with different builds at NG+ or with beast claws and when you're one hit away from death for most of the fight that changes things. Especially if she manages to do the phantom attack, that's scary AF.

Gehrman - Awesome boss/ rival fight or whatever. I dunno how you can fault this tbh.
Moon Presence - ..... eh.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:40 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
You haven't told me what constitutes a 'memorable' fight. Unless you're talking entirely subjectively and literally like "one that i remember," an answer I can't care about.

What else could "memorable" possible mean?

Of course anything a boss fight does to stand out in terms of new challenges, visual design, unique patterns, etc. all helps towards making it memorable. Ebriatas has its context, but that's the extent of it. There's just not much to the fight really, I don't know what else I can say.

You act like I'm attacking a personal stance of yours, which I'm not really :). I'm not saying the bosses in Bloodborne suck, just that they weren't where the game's strength lies. In my opinion.

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So you don't want tough as nails bosses but bloodborne's bosses were weak because too easy.. ok ?
They are mostly easy, and yeah I guess I'd say some are too easy. If I can beat both final bosses in my first try with having no idea what I'm doing, they might need to be spiced up a bit.

But I don't really mind that. The only thing that makes me consider the bosses in the game one of its weaker aspects is that they all felt very similar in both how they play out and how you approach them. Like Ebrietas, most of them aren't memorable. At least to me they weren't. We've already had this discussion before, that's why I'm not going into details.
I still love the game, don't worry my man.

And I agree that both Micolash and Gascoigne are memorable. And for entirely different reasons, too.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:48 pm 


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Again: What weapon were you using? Out of interest.

A reason a boss is memorable is the totality of it, the context, visuals, setting etc. You don't get to just say "oh it's weak on the gameplay, the only memorable thing is the context."

Nope. We experience these things as a whole. If you liked the context or whatever enough to consider it memorable then the boss was probably memorable tbh. But again, we come back to the way we play the games too. You touch them once then leave. Great.
I played DS3 a lot in a short space of time and haven't been back, I can barely remember anything. It was all about my approach.

Sumez wrote:
You act like I'm attacking a personal stance of yours, which I'm not really :). I'm not saying the bosses in Bloodborne suck, just that they weren't where the game's strength lies. In my opinion.

Imagine being able to enjoy video games.

If I were to consider BB's bosses as being a weakness in the game then jesus fuck, what happens to DS2. May as well not touch it.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:56 pm 


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Got that sumbitch Ludwig dead. Whew doggy.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:17 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
jesus fuck, what happens to DS2. May as well not touch it.


:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:30 pm 


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Finally beat Sekiro.

I was doing the Purification Ending, but got stuck at the last bosses, and their 4 health bars. I just took a break, went back to it and my rhythm was totally off.
I used the cheese technique that's on YouTube. Which is still not easy at all.

I hated this boss. I was having no fun. Fun was gone. I was naked in the dark.

BUT, I beat him. And later on I'll go for the other endings.

I still give the game a solid 8. I know they are doing something different, and I'm glad, but this formula isn't as good as the Souls/Bloodborne formula. It's fun though. But I do hope out of the next 3 games they are working on, one is more "Souls-like".
Hey, they can make their action games, and their action RPGs too, right?

I do have criticisms even for what they were going for. Too short, reusing too many bosses, and extending the gameplay by making you go back to the same area 3 times, and locking it each time. Come on now.
I hope for a DLC that adds two unique stages and some bosses to go with it. I don't know if that's gonna happen, as they haven't said a thing about it. The game's doing well, so they should...but they are kinda busy.

I don't know why they were making 4 games at once (not counting the VR game). I think that's the culprit making this game short. Not too happy about that.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:03 pm 


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Defense force, activate!

evil_ash_xero wrote:
and extending the gameplay by making you go back to the same area 3 times, and locking it each time. Come on now.


Nah fuck this. I disagreed when my best mate Sumez called this triple A padding as well.

Sek didn't seem like a short game to me, tbh. Similar length to bloodborne?
The attacks on Ashina castle, different stages throughout the day, the rival factions flooding in fit the narrative of what's actually happening in the game. Usually in From games you're there hundreds of years after the fact. In Sekiro, it's going down while you're there. I liked this.
So many games tell you about stuff happening, they don't let you live in it.
"ashina is on the brink of collapse." The gameplay matches the theme. Cool.


Quote:
I don't know why they were making 4 games at once (not counting the VR game). I think that's the culprit making this game short. Not too happy about that.


I think it was 3 games at once, including the VR?


Quote:
I was doing the Purification Ending..
..I used the cheese technique that's on YouTube
Lol what an organic experience.

Quote:
one is more "Souls-like".
Hey, they can make their action games, and their action RPGs too, right?


Nah people will dismiss them, waving their hands and saying "yah dahling, yah. they're just a one trick pony now."

Man the Sword Saint has some souls-ass moments. The 2nd and 3rd forms basically give you free hits! Just dodge underneath the huge telegraphed jump attacks and hit him? The first phase also has some moves you can do that to, the draw-attack can be dodged at 11 o'clock direction, simply circle strafe the sweep that follows and free hits.
Same with the ichimonji/ overhead strike.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:20 pm 


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Short? It's a 20+ hour game if you aren't a speed runner right?

I mean I get that it's not Dark Souls length for a first run but that's solid bang for your buck. Overall I am more than fine with this. Most games are too long and outstay their welcome these days. You can always take your time and play it more than once if you want to lengthen the time with it.

Like I love Yakuza but 0 can fuck off with how long it is.

Blinge wrote:
Defense force, activate!

Quote:
I was doing the Purification Ending..
..I used the cheese technique that's on YouTube
Lol what an organic experience.


I can get behind shit posting like this.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:36 pm 


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evil_ash_xero wrote:
reusing too many bosses

I hear this complaint a lot, and I go the total opposite direction on it. The reuse of certain boss patterns/minibosses is a very good decision in Sekiro that exemplifies the degree to which From Software understood their own game's design. The combat is far more mechanically precise and varied than any other Souls style game and as a result relies far more heavily on learning and adapting to specific contextual attacks from each specific encounter. Put more simply, mastering how to defeat the General miniboss early in the Ashina Outskirts does not instill you with any confidence whatsoever when the Chained Ogre bursts out of his restraints and chucks you off a cliff. Most players will never even finish this game, let alone play it through a second or third time. If every miniboss encounter was a completely new enemy type to learn you'd have game journalists demanding an easy mode.

The Legend of Zelda also reused bosses and enemies and was a finer game for it.

evil_ash_xero wrote:
I hope for a DLC that adds two unique stages and some bosses to go with it. I don't know if that's gonna happen, as they haven't said a thing about it.

There will 100% be Sekiro DLC. In fact, if you dig into the lore a bit it's pretty clear what the content will almost assuredly be, down to specific areas and NPC/boss encounters. The fact that we haven't heard anything about it is actually par for the course. The game has only been out for a single month, and they generally do DLC announcement with a trailer reveal around 5-6 months post-release. I can practically guarantee a Sekiro DLC reveal trailer around August/September with release closer to October. This is in line with Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:17 am 


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Quote:
Bloodborne boss fights


Outside of the chalice dungeons, *most* of the boss fights aren't too challenging. (not rattling em off since Steamflogger hasn't mentioned them yet).
But the Gehrman fight? How fantastic that was. The music and atmosphere. The tragedy and lore surrounding Gehrman, and culmination of events that've lead to this 'final' confrontation.
The mechanics and technicalities of these games is often the preferred discussion over lore on here, and it's no surprise.

Steam, do you intend on going through the chalice dungeons?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:03 am 


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rapoon wrote:
*most* of the boss fights aren't too challenging.


Just realised DS1 bosses are for the most part, easier than BB's.
Seems like there's some later-game soulsborne bias going on. Your first is your hardest, obviously.
Until you go back and realise DeS is a comparative sleepwalk on the return.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:04 pm 


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rapoon wrote:

Steam, do you intend on going through the chalice dungeons?


I've done a few but I didn't plan to fully flesh them out.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:02 pm 


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If you unlock and complete all the non "root" levels of Pthumeru you get to fight a cool boss.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:28 pm 


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God damn it. Well now I'm going to do that for sure.

THANKS BLINGE.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:43 pm 


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The Maria fight is awesome and very memorable imo. The whole backstory with the DLC is great. In fact...

The Old Hunters is the finest content From Soft has ever made. Change my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:23 pm 


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https://imgur.com/gallery/YobZp

^Here's a handy guide to how to get to the Pthumeru Ithyll where the boss is. Cutting down unecessary effort.
Enjoy cursed & defiled, aids and cancer Amygdala! when you have to do that.. :mrgreen:

Also Sekiro platinum trophy GET
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:51 pm 


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Thanks, that will definitely save me some time.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:01 pm 


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oh fyi, chalices are consistent across NG+ and onwards.
Ending the game won't erase your chalice progress.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:55 pm 


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Interesting but I'm definitely done with the game after I beat it so I have to do this first.

Me replaying any game is fairly rare so I'm not a big NG+ guy.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 pm 


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There’s 6 or 7 bosses (maybe more? It’s been awhile) that are exclusive to the chalice dungeons.
Pucker up your butthole cause defiled pthumeru is pretty tough. :mrgreen:

Blinge wrote:
Your first is your hardest, obviously.
Until you go back and realise DeS is a comparative sleepwalk on the return.


No doubt about the first being your hardest but truth be told, out of all the From games I still find DeS the most difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:18 am 


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I've already seen some unique ones. Cool stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:55 am 


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rapoon wrote:
No doubt about the first being your hardest but truth be told, out of all the From games I still find DeS the most difficult.

Hm but have you tried again recently? It really is worlds easier and less complex than the likes of Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro. There are only 3 or 4 bosses with legitimate mechanical nuance to overcome.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:11 am 


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I'm really itching to play Demon's Souls over from the beginning soon. Is it worth it to hold out for a remaster first?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:40 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I'm really itching to play Demon's Souls over from the beginning soon. Is it worth it to hold out for a remaster first?

I've been holding out for a remaster for the last couple years. My experience says no - but maybe wait for e3 next month to see if it gets announced.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:54 pm 


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So my Bloodborne playthrough is already at 72 hours (lol) and these chalice dungeons just keep getting longer so I'll probably be pushing 80 before I am done. I will be sure to post the time to speedrun dot com posthaste. :lol: :lol:

Sumez wrote:
I'm really itching to play Demon's Souls over from the beginning soon. Is it worth it to hold out for a remaster first?


I'd say just play it. Of course it would be typical if they announced it shortly after but it's from 2009 and they still haven't bothered so it may never come.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:54 pm 


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Just play it! Demon’s Souls totally holds up even if it is ten years old at this point. Such a great game.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:29 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
I'm really itching to play Demon's Souls over from the beginning soon. Is it worth it to hold out for a remaster first?


Why bother walking towards never ending disappointment? :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:08 pm 


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Huh?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:28 am 


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Orphan of Kos grew up without a mum. This made him a very very very angry lad. :shock:


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