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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:47 pm 


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Lol ffs guys
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:15 pm 


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It's not. The real news here is that I'm bummed it will be another 1-2 years before we hear about From's next big project, given their typical dev cycle.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:35 pm 


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Oh, lol...
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 4:02 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
It's not. The real news here is that I'm bummed it will be another 1-2 years before we hear about From's next big project, given their typical dev cycle.


I mean yeah you're clearly such a big fan :lol: :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:06 pm 


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Oh yeah Bloodborne is fantastic omg.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:40 pm 


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Sumez, it's a bummer that Sekiro didn't quite do it for you. Personally, it's Exactly What I Didn't Even Know I Wanted.

Regarding the camera, I can definitely agree that it's not perfect. My wife gets more frustrated with it than I do, but I get it. The most obvious actual issues with it that I have noticed are around locking on:

1) I sometimes don't understand why I can or can not lock on to an enemy. This is a problem because the input for locking on will recenter the camera if the game decides there is nothing to lock on to, which is exact opposite of what I want if I'm circling or running away from a dude and trying to lock on to him. This can easily get you turned around, hit, killed, or All Three At Once.

2) The game has a timeout on your locked target if the direct line of sight is obstructed. This isn't really any different than it was in Souls, so while it is still certainly an issue, I'm pretty used to dealing with it. The bigger problem here is that boss fights are often designed with rocks, pillars, trees, and other obstructions throughout the arena that can result in an unintentional unlock multiple times throughout a lengthy fight. It's just not something you want to be wrestling with/thinking about when the game already expects such precise execution from you.

That said, it's never been a huge issue to me. I can't say I've NEVER blamed the camera for a death, but I've died probably thousands of times in these games and the percentage of those that were directly attributable to the camera is probably so low as to be negligable. There isn't much that hasn't killed me at this point.

Here's one final thing relating to the camera that I will add that is new to Sekiro, and does drive me insane. Interacting with things is now actually contingent on the prompt to do so appearing on the screen. This is awful and plagues many games, but it was never a thing in the Souls series. I had the same issue with the otherwise excellent Resident Evil 2 remake prior to Sekiro, so it was fresh in my mind and I was upset to see it reappear here. I can not count the amount of times I have had to hammer the interact button to pick up an item or open a door or talk to someone while adjusting the camera so the game understands what I'm trying to do. It's not something that's likely to get you killed, it's just annoying. In my opinion it's right up there with the tutorial pop up messages that can not be disabled as the worst aspects of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:52 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Hatoful Demon was an epic struggle also, i think i blocked maybe twice, with the umbrella :o
I just went full Dark Souls + NASCAR for this one. I'd be interested to see Necron's play vs this guy!

Hah! I believe our strategy was pretty similar, actually. Dark Souls + NASCAR sounds about right.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:07 pm 


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Blinge wrote:

I wasn't being snarky with that question tbh. I'm generally curious as to what 3rd person game with free camera doesn't get weird when you're up against a wall. And by weird i mean either reduced visibility or the 'correction.'

Is there something wrong with me? I've never found the camera to be much of an issue. It's screwed me over maybe twice all game. You could complain about auto-wall recovery being shit in the souls games sure, but you can just turn it off there sooo..
I do have 'fond' memories of that buttress in Anor Londo to reach the painting/rafters building and the camera spazzing out as you go under the arch. scary. That's what prompted me to turn the option off.

I see friends get cornered in soulsborne or a streamer perhaps, camera points down or their visibility is impaired to any degree "I CAN'T FUCKING SEE. WHAT IS THIS CAMERA." instant righteous fury, shit play, almost give up on the spot.
My thought process when i'm in that situation is "shit, get some space" and carry on playing.

I'm probably just used to it.



I didn’t interpret your inquiry as snarky in the slightest.

Unfortunately, I fall into a category of individuals who are hyper-sensitive to rapid camera movements. As such I often play these games on the lowest sensitivity settings which admittedly amplifies frustration from unintended unlocks. Despite it being one of my favorite games, I never could play BB for longer than 2-3 hours without developing severe eye strain due to the camera, poor FPS, and chromatic aberration.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:35 am 


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rapoon wrote:
Unfortunately, I fall into a category of individuals who are hyper-sensitive to rapid camera movements.

Clearly the only solution is Easy Mode!


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:52 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
rapoon wrote:
Unfortunately, I fall into a category of individuals who are hyper-sensitive to rapid camera movements.

Clearly the only solution is Easy Mode!



NPCs with colossal titties would have been sufficient.

I was digging through my games I recently pulled out of storage and found a copy of Armored Core 4. Don’t remember ever playing it. Is the series and this particular entry worth a shit?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:45 am 


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YES, the series is definely great, and 4 is a good entry point for it (even if the sequel is faaar better)

I'm leaving this here just for the sake of it
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:18 am 


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Yeah Armored Core is definitely worth it. 4 is a fine entry, though like KAI says For Answer is the nutter butters. Most of the games in the series are good enough and playable though there are some outliers. For example I wasn't a fan of Nine Breaker at all.

I'd say definitely don't trust reviews on this series because I would imagine the typical review is just hurr durr another Armored Core game. This probably belongs in the shitty review thread but: https://www.destructoid.com/destructoid ... 8132.phtml
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:25 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
1) I sometimes don't understand why I can or can not lock on to an enemy. This is a problem because the input for locking on will recenter the camera if the game decides there is nothing to lock on to, which is exact opposite of what I want if I'm circling or running away from a dude and trying to lock on to him. This can easily get you turned around, hit, killed, or All Three At Once.

I don't remember if I've talked about it in this thread, but this very specific thing has screwed up almost every boss fight for me throughout the game, usually in combination with point #2.
I don't think anything about the camera or lock-on mechanism is new for Sekiro, it just works a lot worse because this game expects you to be a lot more mobile. Or at least pretends to allow it.

rapoon wrote:
NPCs with colossal titties would have been sufficient.

https://thehardtimes.net/harddrive/no-s ... e-titties/


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:11 am 


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I dunno Sumez. Most of the time when you're fighting something and locked I think the game expects you to stand and bang, to borrow an MMA term.
just let me bang bro :mrgreen:

rapoon wrote:
Unfortunately, I fall into a category of individuals who are hyper-sensitive to rapid camera movements. As such I often play these games on the lowest sensitivity settings which admittedly amplifies frustration from unintended unlocks. Despite it being one of my favorite games, I never could play BB for longer than 2-3 hours without developing severe eye strain due to the camera, poor FPS, and chromatic aberration.


Ohh okay. So what, a fast camera = one way ticket to vomit city?

going back to your point about 3rd person games. Man.. don't play Monster Hunter on handheld.
That redefines what it means to wrestle with the camera haha.

Then again, so did Armored Core For Answer. Jesus, i'm surprised I didn't get a seizure.

Yeah I get the camera complaints now after reading Necron and Sumez' comments. The thing is, being unlocked doesn't fuck me up that often because i'm so used to unlocking + locking as necessary, this probably comes from the times I've returned to DeS and DS1 after the later games. Rolling in any direction while locked is something you can't live without later, so I play most of DS1 unlocked in order to roll where I want. Also to roll for positioning, which apparently isn't a thing in ds1, but.. it is.

Edit: on Amored core for Answer? Is that really the best one? :|
That's a shame man I wanted to like it, I just.. never got it.
The biggest complaint I can think of now is the lack of feedback, i never felt like I was damaging shit, or that I was being damaged.
I'd just go from playing, fannying about fighting the controls to "oh i'm dead, when did that happen?"
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:50 am 


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I'm kind of curious just how much it would improve the game to simply remove the "feature" that re-centers the camera behind your back whenever you try to lock on to something you for whatever reason aren't allowed to lock on to.
I can't imagine anyone having ever actually intended use the lock-on button for that purpose!

To be honest, I'm not sure what the game gets for being so strict on allowing lock-on either. Even if an enemy is completely off-screen, what does the game gain, gameplay-wise from just turning around and locking on them the moment you try to do so? In a boss fight scenario, it will most likely be the only thing around to realistically lock to anyway.
The only purpose I can see for the current behavior, would be those that disappear and reappear somewhere else in order to hide from you, which is honestly rarely a fun "challenge" anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:23 am 


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Nah I like the centre- camera button, use it quite a lot.
In fact it really fucks me off when a game doesn't have it! infamous 2, red dead redemption.
I want the camera centred NOW, i don't want to have to swing it all the way round.

I guess you could say dis/re-appear works with Headless because it has a horror theme.
It is plenty annoying though, yes.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:59 am 


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Necronopticous wrote:
Blinge wrote:
Hatoful Demon was an epic struggle also, i think i blocked maybe twice, with the umbrella :o
I just went full Dark Souls + NASCAR for this one. I'd be interested to see Necron's play vs this guy!

Hah! I believe our strategy was pretty similar, actually. Dark Souls + NASCAR sounds about right.


Aha. Interesting to see what differences in approach we did have!

https://youtu.be/msNJt8jAeRM

I conclude for me twas Monster Hunter+ NASCAR instead.
How's that for camera control boyz? :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:57 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Edit: on Amored core for Answer? Is that really the best one? :|
That's a shame man I wanted to like it, I just.. never got it.
The biggest complaint I can think of now is the lack of feedback, i never felt like I was damaging shit, or that I was being damaged.
I'd just go from playing, fannying about fighting the controls to "oh i'm dead, when did that happen?"


First thing about FA, never play with the default control scheme, is shit, Regular-B is the best way to play it. I also hated the game the first time i played thanks to those horrid controls, but when i changed them (and learned how the movement mechanics worked) this game became one of my favorite of all times.

The reason why you don't feel anything when you receive damage is mainly because of the shield (PA/Primal Armor) mechanic, once it's depleted you can get stunned or knocked back by any enemy fire. Also the game basically gives you an OP mech (with shit weapons at the beginning) that doesn't give a shit about anything on screen until another OP mech appears.

BTW, navigating the screen using the radar is a must, locating enemies by sight can be frustrating at times, but the 3D radar is super helpful for that since you can get enemies and projectiles position on it.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:03 pm 


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So I managed to do a deathless run to the
Spoiler: show
Shura
ending today.

My hands were shaking as I fought the final boss.
My feelings on this matter are represented by this video:
https://youtu.be/SWk_g7EWZjQ?t=198

Actually in addition to this , I would say after like...5-6 goes through the game the vast majority of it is now super easy. You can just grapple past all the normal enemies and practice bosses only. You can basically avoid everything if you want to that overall harms the experience in my opinion. I was talking to a friend of mine who has finished Sekiro and he was saying that he felt the game would be better if the grappling hook basically didn't exist. I'm not entirely sure I disagree with him. Once you have learned the bosses attacks you can just deflect everything and your margin for error becomes really big on all the bosses except the final ones. At least in the DS games you are timing dodge rolls and get hit if you are slightly off time. In Sekiro being off time just means you get a block instead and still don't take damage except against specific boss attacks that deal damage through blocking.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:37 pm 


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Well.. the Sek NG+ begins in earnest.
Keeping that charm tho

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Oh yeah Bloodborne is fantastic omg.


Interested to hear your thoughts as you go through the game
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:21 am 


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Illyrian wrote:
Once you have learned the bosses attacks you can just deflect everything

ok -_-


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:47 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Illyrian wrote:
Once you have learned the bosses attacks you can just deflect everything

ok -_-


I mean that after you do a few playthroughs you end up remembering a lot of the timings. Didn't mean to be a dick to anyone. Sorry.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:14 am 


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Well tbf you ain't gonna learn any timings if you just avoid all the minibosses :mrgreen:

Oof not a fan of Kuro's English VA.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:06 am 


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Blinge wrote:
Well tbf you ain't gonna learn any timings if you just avoid all the minibosses :mrgreen:

Oof not a fan of Kuro's English VA.

I've killed every miniboss now aside from the plethora of headless fights that I'm not sure I'm gonna bother with.

Also, why would anyone want to play this with English VA?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:06 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Well.. the Sek NG+ begins in earnest.
Keeping that charm tho

Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Oh yeah Bloodborne is fantastic omg.


Interested to hear your thoughts as you go through the game


Lloighnahh? llll gn'th'bthnkhupa?

So I was getting my ass kicked last night. Embarrassing stuff really. Vicar Amelia isn't even that tough just a bit spongy for my level and I was tired. Then I had a zen moment and killed her without really using health items and pretty much immediately went to the Blood-Starved Beast and kicked its bitch ass too.

Differences to Dark Souls that I like: no equip load, only have wear on weapons and having 1 less stat (basically removing resistance).

Differences to Dark souls that I am indifferent on: less weapons, progression seems to make more natural sense (maybe better level design? maybe this is in my head), putting gems in weapons vs more enchant paths in Souls.

I think my main takeaway with a lot of these differences is that the game is a bit simplified compared to Dark Souls and it's mostly a good thing imo.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:57 pm 


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The revelation for me with bloodborne was taking the plunge and trying to parry bosses like Gascoigne. Once you start taking the risk the game becomes so much more amazing and exciting.

Totally brilliant game frankly.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:29 pm 


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Illyrian wrote:
The revelation for me with bloodborne was taking the plunge and trying to parry bosses like Gascoigne. Once you start taking the risk the game becomes so much more amazing and exciting.

Totally brilliant game frankly.


Played Bloodbourne a while back but didn't get very far. Just started it today with my brothers and it's clicked loads more. Managed to no-miss the first two bosses. Lots easier than I remember or maybe just lucky. Now up to the machine gun bastard and his which gave me trouble last time. Any tips?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:52 pm 


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Parrying is biiig game for sure.

MX7 wrote:
Illyrian wrote:
The revelation for me with bloodborne was taking the plunge and trying to parry bosses like Gascoigne. Once you start taking the risk the game becomes so much more amazing and exciting.

Totally brilliant game frankly.


Played Bloodbourne a while back but didn't get very far. Just started it today with my brothers and it's clicked loads more. Managed to no-miss the first two bosses. Lots easier than I remember or maybe just lucky. Now up to the machine gun bastard and his which gave me trouble last time. Any tips?


I managed to get him to fall off the tower. :lol:

But I think I was going to kill him anyway. You could probably parry him but I was just dodging everything like crazy and when he finishes going through his big attack sequence there is some time to punish him with 2-3 hits.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:35 pm 


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Then there's that radge cunt he sends after you while he's all dakkadakkadakka. It reminded me of Dark souls 3,where I beat most bosses within about 3 goes, and took out a whole bunch of them first time, but the hardest bits by far are the randomly bastard hard 'normal' enemies, like those knights in the cathedral outside the deacons who killed me at least 15 times, wheopon the boss killed me once, and that's only because I fannied around.

Soulsbourne games would be so much better without bosses.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:39 pm 


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MX7 wrote:
Now up to the machine gun bastard and his which gave me trouble last time. Any tips?

Learn to forgive.
MX7 wrote:
Soulsbourne games would be so much better without bosses.

I like you and your Kago Shintaro avatar, MX7. Don't disappoint me like this!


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