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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:28 pm 


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Twin Snakes -- what you're supposed to do is equip the Thief Amulet (which you get at the base of the tower you place the Fire Icon on; speaking of said icon, what the hell does that do, anyways?!?!). Do that, walk in, and they won't see you; just shoot them to death, and they won't fight back.

As far as giving away a flask, go to the underwater caverns, there's a guy there who's getting hungry because the mermen keep taking his fish, and asks for some poison to kill them. Go back to the poisoned well at the start of the game, fill a Crystal Vial up with poison from the water, and use the vial right in front of him; he'll take the poison and the vial and, in exchange, give you an armlet that doubles your XP gain... which would maybe be worth something if it didn't involve removing the Clarity Bracelet...

EDIT: It just occurred to me, the twin snakes boss is a giant Metal Gear Solid joke, isn't it? Twin Snakes and you kill them with stealth hurdehur.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:42 pm 


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Ah. I'm pretty sure I was wearing the thief's amulet anyway, as I had been for a while, since it's the only useful amulet I had in my inventory until I found the one that reveals secret doors.

I'm unsure what is the "underwater caverns"? There are a lot of underwater areas here and there, but I don't recall a complete underwater themed area. Can you be more precise?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:40 pm 


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Go to the shore area, on the cliff overlooking the tower where you placed the Icon Of Fire. Look down into the water to your left, and you'll see a shipwreck, along with a submerged bit of land sticking out. Jump down underwater to the submerged bit of land, continue through the tunnel there, and you'll find yourself in a complex of caves underwater with a bunch of mermen; in that first room, after killing the mermen, swing a right and you'll find the guy who trades the (worthless) Fortune armlet for a vial with poison.

EDIT: BTW, any word on whether you'd be irrecoverably stuck if you warped with the green wand for the first time, took the green stone, went to the blacksmith's workshop, and ported out to red or blue without having opened the one-way door back to Silver Gate and with the green stone still in your inventory? Without Silver Gate being open, the only way into the Earth Folk/Foundry area that I know of is via teleport, which you've just removed, and you can't skip the area because you need the Craftsman's Key to progress.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:29 pm 


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I was wondering about that. I jumped down near the shipwreck, but just found myself in an area I couldn't get out of, and had to reload a save. I must have overlooked something I guess?

Regarding your "deadlock"... is it even possible to warp out of the south area again without opening some sort of way back? The game generally seems absurdly, thoroughly well designed, so it would be an odd thing for them to overlook.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:34 pm 


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Yep, it's possible to warp out without opening up a path back to the center, unless there's a way in that I don't know about (I did exactly that, but made a point of not moving the green stone until I had found or made a connecting path). Exit the save room with the initial green stone, turn right, go to the Earth Folk dwelling; there's a teleport circle there, but you won't have opened up any paths back up to the central city.

EDIT: At the shipwreck, you shouldn't have to load game out if you jump to the spot I'm talking about, because you're underwater. If you don't find the path pretty quick, you drown, heh.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:51 am 


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Just finished KF4. I know there was some stuff I didn't find, (I never became kingly, I couldn't figure out how to get to Myu's Helmet, I couldn't figure out how to get to the chest across the lava in the Treasury, I never figured out what was up with that room with the four buttons that dumps you into a poison pit, never found the Yellow Guidestone, and I never found the Forest Folk key), but I think I got the "good" end (got the Moonlight Sword, killed the stupid multi-face pillar thing in purple-flesh world).

Overall... kinda ambivalent towards the whole thing. Lots of stuff to like here, lots of stuff that's just not very good. The combat on the whole is just crap, mostly revolving around abusing tether ranges or enemies being dumb enough to attack before you're in range (LOL WIDDAS). Some cool stuff too; overall, a hell of a dungeon to delve, with some neat ideas like the Foundry Transformation and some really great atmosphere at points (that underwater ruin connected to the Graveyard, the whole Shore/Fort area). I'm moderately glad I played it, I guess?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:11 am 


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Man you're rough. I fucking loved the game. Such an amazing sense of atmosphere and exploration, an absolute masterclass in world design.

I think the room with buttons that drops you into poison is related to the "you are not kingly" thing. There's another room almost right next to it, which has a pretty clear hint on which order to press the buttons.
The lava room you can get through if you pay attention to the immediate surroundings somewhat outside the room. Took me a while to figure out, but it's pretty obvious once you see it.

I don't remember where the yellow "guidestone" is. Is it the one you buy from a merchant near the draftman's area maybe (room with tables and stuff across from the room with fire arrows)? Or in the chest in that same area.

What it's Myu's helmet? And widdas?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:20 am 


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(I played the US version, not the PAL version, so there may be some name differences.)

The Myu's Armor pieces are the ones in the purple bubbles that you have to break with the Moonlight Sword. I saw the helmet through a grate at the bottom of the flooded bottom floor, but couldn't figure out any way to get to it.

Widdas are the things that look like clones of Dark Souls's Serpent Men.

You buy the Yellow Wand from the merchant in the caves behind the Engineer's Area (the area you describe near the fire arrow faces). I never found the stone that goes with it. And, yes, I tried using the wand on the nearest circle right after buying; I just got a "nothing happened" text.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:25 am 


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Ah. The widdas are called weavils in my version. I actually like the PAL name better.

The helmet is accessed via a hidden door right next to it. I guess you never found the amulet that reveals hidden doors? That might also explain why you didn't find the hint for the element stones.
It's located in a hidden area next to the guy you give an egg.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:26 pm 


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That's correct, I never found that amulet.

Looking up some other stuff I missed, apparently you can shut down the fire arrow faces?!?! I just stacked fire resist and ran across the bridge. Also, apparently you can get rid of the wind gusts at the bridge to the Mansion of Howling Winds, which would have been nice since I hated that fucking bridge!


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:25 pm 


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Really? I just tanked those winds, not really an issue. How do you turn them off?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:05 pm 


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Apparently there's a ledge you can drop to that gets you just within range that you can see and kill the monsters creating the gusts.

The problem I had isn't the damage (totally negligible for that point in the game), it's the fact that there's about a 50/50 chance that on hit, you're getting knocked off the bridge for an instant kill.

Also, apparently you can get rid of the archers in the mausoleum by just ringing the bell a second time?!?! Damn, that would have been easier than what I did!


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:17 pm 


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Obscura wrote:
The problem I had isn't the damage (totally negligible for that point in the game), it's the fact that there's about a 50/50 chance that on hit, you're getting knocked off the bridge for an instant kill.

Really? I must have been insanely lucky then, because I got hit by like 5 of them on my way over. I just stayed near the side of the bridge that the gust comes from.

Quote:
Also, apparently you can get rid of the archers in the mausoleum by just ringing the bell a second time?!?! Damn, that would have been easier than what I did!

I had no idea either. With a projectile? Seriously, it's these unique details that makes me appreciate From.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:20 pm 


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The guides I saw specified hitting it with an arrow, so I don't know if it's just any projectile. But yeah, ringing it causes all of the skeletons to instantly go back to sleep.

One thing I will say for the game is I love how many "optional puzzles" there are. Cases like the mausoleum or the fire arrow bridge or the flames protecting the Widda temple; all of those offer the option of just brute forcing it instead of actually figuring out the puzzle. It's a neat way of keeping the flow going and allowing some player expression.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:48 pm 


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Absolutely, and I actually think King's Field 2 does that exact thing even better. Almost that entire game is "optional".


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:38 pm 


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When people keep talking about From's dark fantasy series instead of their mecha ones
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Finished the Armored Core Portable trilogy. Don't want to try to beat Last Raven's arena ever again.

Playing AC1 right now, and I'm amazed about how solid this game is, even if the digital controls suck.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:48 pm 


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<3

I bought AC4 and For Answer. Is that a bad entry to the series? I know they are known to be quite a departure from the earlier games, gameplay wise.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:59 pm 


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Well I played through 4A and don't feel like touching another Armored Core after that, so i guess that's a yes.

Heh. I'm tempted to start KF4 again just to test that theory but i'm sure I had similar softlock suspicions before..
.. only to find a shortcut back to the main spire.

I did try to learn a speedrun route for the game, the early stuff is funny. you can kill the old lady at the beginning, then the next enemy you kill will drop the fire magic instead!?
I was stumped by getting past the guardian without crowns though. You have to bait out their swing then rush past them, that sucked, having to run there from the save point to try repeatedly only to be one-shot killed. I tapped out.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:42 pm 


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Never played 4 but yeah, people say FA is the best game from the 4-5 gen.
4 should be a perfect starting point for this series since its the 1st game on that gen (and apparently the beginning of the whole AC storyline)


Back to AC1, the flying enemies were programmed by satan.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:45 pm 


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Holy shit, Sorc builds are garbage in Dark Souls 3. Another forum I'm on is doing a mass-playthrough thread of it, and I made the mistake of trying to run a Sorc; I've made it to the third bonfire in the Undead Settlement and don't think I'm going to bother going any further, my build is so gimped it literally can't kill Hodric. Not "has a hard time killing Hodric", literally can't out-damage his healing.

DS2 remains the only game in the series with a functional character system (yet another way it's underrated by the idiotic Miyazaki fanboys). DS1 is "lol put everything in Endurance first", DS3 is "lol anything other than pure light-weapon Dex is objectively wrong".


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:54 pm 


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Quote:
idiotic Miyazaki fanboys


!TOXIC!

Obscura strikes again.
Wouldn't know mate i've only played DS3 with a Strength build so far.
It was fine.

I would also suggest maybe magic is better once you're a bit further along. Hodric's supposed to be a tough customer anyway, more so than the surrounding area.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:08 am 


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I've done heavy STR and pure DEX; STR is playable, but it's 100% inferior to DEX. Caster builds are just total hell.

Want to know how to make CRG, one of the worst bosses in videogame history, even worse? Get there was a sorcerer. You literally can't target any of his weak points other than the groin before the floor breaks, even that is super magic-resistant, so you're reduced to being worse than a level 1 fighter. Great design, From.

(This run is quickly convincing me that I was wrong, and DS3 isn't the best in the series; DS2 vanilla is.)


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:57 am 


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If that's true ( :P ) that would be a big gaffe, yes. But I'm still inclined to give From slack when they don't cater perfectly to literally every build style, for being ambitious.

I suppose you can say that the build in STA is the best build - but there's not much choice, is there?

Anyhow I wanted to mention that I got ahold of some interesting whatsos for From products:

A "mouse pad" thing for Metal Wolf Chaos (roughly flyer sized, flat touch material, full color printed with a scene of Pres and VP facing off). There's a proper name for it, which I'm forgetting at the moment.
A kind of guide for Shadow Tower, roughly CD case sized, but thick. Has some screenshots in the front, and mostly maps throughout. Unfortunately glue bound so scanning is out of the question. Neat embossed cover to it.
The "King's Field 4 Premium Book" which seems to actually be CD case sized. Apparently a preorder bonus for the game. Matte print, holographic silvery foil embossed cover. Interior pages are a two-page spread of a forest photo, then shots of game scenes and art. Dunno what the text is about but it seems to be flavor stuff. Unfortunately these bonus items are usually banging around inside the usual DVD case for a PS2 box so may have some wear and tear.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:53 am 


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Obscura wrote:
I've done heavy STR and pure DEX; STR is playable, but it's 100% inferior to DEX.


What is "heavy" STR. Fat rolls?

100% huh? Okay. As usual i'm bewildered by your presentation of experience as objective fact.
I think these are games you love to hate. :wink:

I dunno, try hitting CRG with a weapon at that point? The games weren't really built around exclusively ranged attacks were they? at some point you're gonna have to slashy or stabby. Especially with an INT scaling weapon, you're set!
I mean.. they do give you a melee weapon to start with in mage classes, hint hint.

I do have to do mage playthroughs of 2 and 3. It's not a priority however, as i did this in DeS and DS1 and it just breaks those games imo.

Also Sumez: play the fucking DLCs
All of them.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:03 am 


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I felt like sorc breaks DS2, yeah. I recall reading there were some balance changes to PVP to counter this, but the basic game still is ez when lobbing missiles. Maybe Obscura is having problems with a boss meant to overcome that?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:36 pm 


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I never enjoyed projectile combat in any Souls game to be honest.
It can be used for some "puzzle solving" approaches to certain enemies, but I wouldn't make a build that relies on it. It just doesn't feel like the games were built around that at all.

Btw, I accidentally picked up Kuon. I remember really wanting to play this back in the days when I didn't know what From Software was. Is it any good?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:18 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Obscura wrote:
I've done heavy STR and pure DEX; STR is playable, but it's 100% inferior to DEX.


What is "heavy" STR. Fat rolls?

100% huh? Okay. As usual i'm bewildered by your presentation of experience as objective fact.
I think these are games you love to hate. :wink:

I dunno, try hitting CRG with a weapon at that point? The games weren't really built around exclusively ranged attacks were they? at some point you're gonna have to slashy or stabby. Especially with an INT scaling weapon, you're set!
I mean.. they do give you a melee weapon to start with in mage classes, hint hint.

I do have to do mage playthroughs of 2 and 3. It's not a priority however, as i did this in DeS and DS1 and it just breaks those games imo.

Also Sumez: play the fucking DLCs
All of them.

DS3 doesn't give you any source of INT scaling until you've explored both Farron Swamp and the little fort in front of Crystal Sage, which is one of the problems. For the entire early game, as a caster, you're stuck with non-scaling weapons that aren't as good as DS1 non-scaling weapons. DS1 and DS2 both give you early sources of INT scaling; DS3 just says "haha, DEX or fuck off!".

I'm not trying to play "projectiles only"; however, when the best thing I can use for the first third of the game is a +2 Fire Mail Breaker... yeah. There's literally no situation prior to exploring all of Crucifixion Woods and Farron Swamp where Dex isn't 100% better than Int, which is just awful balance. And I'm just speculating that it changes (surely Pestilent Mercury will be of some use, at least); I killed Crystal Sage last night (which is a fucking nightmare of a boss for INT builds, btw, since there's no non-elemental INT scaling in DS3, so INT builds can barely even damage him... again, DS3 fucking hates everything that isn't pure DEX), and while having Crystal Infusion and the "Great" versions of Soul Arrow and Heavy Soul Arrow helps, it's not enough to make it anywhere near as good as a DEX build.

A DEX build needs one stat to do damage, and gains ranged and melee options from that, and the ranged option can even be aimed wherever you want. An INT build actually needs at least three stats (also need ATN, and then casting speed is tied to DEX so you need to bump that to 15), and you can't even aim the ranged option, and you have no non-elemental damage option, and you don't get the melee option until a third of the way through the game. It's hilarious how bad off INT is; making the balance this bad seems like it must have taken actual effort. You can't fuck up this badly by accident.

(Heavy STR is slow-weapon STR, in this case Great Hammer. Which loses the "pancake" moves on its 2-handed R2 that it had in DS1 and DS2 because OH MY GOD WOULDN'T IT BE AWFUL IF SOMETHING OTHER THAN PURE DEX COULD DO ANYTHING COOL)


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:25 pm 


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Sounds like they wanted INT to be a supplementary thing.
Like, I read all that and I think "okay. few points in dex for the early game, then switch to my pussy-ass casting afterwards."

The other thing think when I read all that is "man.. I just don't care about what stat is better than what."

Hm, I seem to remember flattening enemies alright with Yhorm's Machete. Love that thing.
Think my first Friede kill used that.

Fume Ultra GS is always a good laugh. Made bank on PvP with that, loads of people underestimate its range.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:32 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Sounds like they wanted INT to be a supplementary thing.

You'd think so, except it takes sixty fucking points in INT (which you're never going to hit, because you also need ATN!) to reach the soft-cap for spell damage. And the amount you gain for each point in INT actually increases with every point until you hit 60. It's fucking deranged. When did Japan pass laws regarding lead paint in houses to prevent this kind of cognitive damage to children?


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:12 pm 


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I played most of DS1 with weapons that didn't scale with any attribute, but just had good damage output on their own. Isn't that an option in DS3? Been a while.


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