From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Blinge wrote:No, I think it says everything one would assume about WoW players. :o
Dunno, apparently they have better taste than shmup players.

(The fact that Futari appeared so high on the "top 25" list for so long also validates this.)
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Petulance.

Anyway for anyone interested here's me doing some super aggressive early Sekiro play and engaging groups badly :3

https://youtu.be/n1IIjsVeaPc
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

I've never seen so much shitty low-poly terrain in one game since 1996.

And how many times do they copy and paste the same building assets? Christ. How the hell does a game like this get released as "AAA" in 2019?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Hm video quality is a bit funky, something went wrong between ps4>vegas render>youtube compression, not sure where.

I didn't wanna post this, but it applies.

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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Discernment is a highly useful and often undervalued skill.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by wgogh »

Blinge wrote:Petulance.

Anyway for anyone interested here's me doing some super aggressive early Sekiro play and engaging groups badly :3

https://youtu.be/n1IIjsVeaPc
High hopes for this one. We can tell by the editions that you're having a great time.
I need a bit of an upgrade first tho. :/
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Durandal »

The game's combat finally clicked with me after finally defeating Lady Butterfly. Basically, you shouldn't be mashing attack at all. That might sound self-evident, but you really don't want to be attacking again before seeing the type of block flash after attacking. Enemies can randomly reflect you as well which you should be on the lookout for, because if they do it means they will follow-up with an attack which will get you hit if you were mashing attack again; instead you want to reflect their counter-attack and continue your barrage (on top of looking out for perilous attacks). The AI will decide to keep wailing at you if you hold down block, so when given the opportunity you should return the favor. Then you have to deal with spear enemies who won't let you inside melee range, brutes whose attacks deal massive pushback and posture damage on parry, shield enemies who act as a kind of moving area of denial, and a bunch of other buggers who appear in a less frequent capacity, so the same strategy of atk->atk->deflect->parry->etc. doesn't quite apply everywhere, especially not considering some of the gimmicks the bosses bring along.

Of course maintaining the parry rhythm in group combat is much harder when you have to deal with ranged enemies and brutes and two buggers coming at you from two different angles, which facilitates a more adaptive approach and weaving in and out of engagement distances with enemies to group everyone up and not get hit yourself. I'm not a huge fan of how shield enemies can most optimally be only taken out with your axe attachment (because you can only damage them normally by dodging their shield charge which happens at random(?)), but in a group fight it does pose an interesting problem where you want to create enough space and time between you and a shieldbearer so you don't get hit by someone else during the massive wind-up time of your axe and don't end up whiffing either. Or just grapple away and try to stealth as much as you can. I wish all regular melee enemies had access to a bow to try and shoot me if I try to grapple away instead of pelting puny pebbles at me.

Ranged enemies are a top priority because they can just intervene in a fight at the worst times, but I wish that other enemies could be hit by them as well. I've tried positioning myself to keep a melee enemy between me and a ranged enemy, but the fired projectile simply passed through the enemy in front of me and hit me dead on. Wut? This way you lose out on a potentially interesting spacing game where you try to keep regular enemies between you and ranged enemies, against which ranged enemies could simply move their ass sideways a bit to get a better shot at me. It's stupidly astounding how they keep standing in the same place when aggroed.

The stealth in this game is unbelievably bare bones with an even more unbelievably stupid AI; you can literally skewer someone with shurikens in front of his buddy and he won't even bat an eye, yet Sekiro paradoxically manages to strike a balance between stealth and action better than most games which try to offer either as a separate playstyle. Usually you end up with stealth being too OP or being too useless or being strongly enforced because muh morality system or requiring you to do it pixel perfectly lest you savescum all the time, but here it's not like you can either stealth your way through completely as the bosses will fuck you up if you do, and trying to brute force your way through everything is a death sentence. You're not punished hard for getting discovered and you're not punished for killing things, so you can feel at ease deciding how to approach things as you see fit. Sometimes a bit of stealth to thin out the hordes will work out, or you can just go rambo when you feel like it. Especially with mini-bosses you want to isolate him before dealing with the rest.

Then you've got some weird shit like Lady Butterfly's second phase where the most consistent way of dealing with her ghost summons is to run laps around the arena until they all disappear, which alongside the braindead AI just begs the question what the thought process at From even looks like that they'd be okay with players playing a make-believe NASCAR race to avoid an enemy attack and not implementing basic details to maintain immersion and keep things realistic
I really am impressed how after having made god knows how many games that From can still put out something that feels like it is a PS2 game
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chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

I was with you until you start throwing words like realistic around and then "feels like a ps2 game" out of left field.
Enemies have always shot through each other in Soulsborne games, guess I'm just used to it.
The funny thing is.. in King's Field enemy projectiles hit each other pahahh.

Isn't old school appeal one of From's selling points? :wink:

Linking boss attacks to their names is spoilers, dude. The way a lot of souls fans play this stuff is going in completely blind.
Hell I'd say even naming a boss is a spoiler especially this early on but I'm a zealot, so..
it's not like you can either stealth your way through completely as the bosses will fuck you up if you do, and trying to brute force your way through everything is a death sentence.
Challenge(s) accepted, eh Necron??

"madame butterfly"'s
Spoiler
illusion attack can be dealt with by using that pop seed thing? The guy before her literally tells you what to do and gives you some. I had a few more from the snek valley earlier too.

Also why not just kite them around a pillar/ use it to block the projectiles they turn into instead of just sprinting round. Nascar is just how YOU dealth with it..
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Durandal
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Durandal »

Blinge wrote:I was with you until you start throwing words like realistic around and then "feels like a ps2 game" out of left field.
Isn't old school appeal one of From's selling points? :wink:
Realistic might not have been the right word, I'd rather say logically consistent (in regards to general human behavior when seeing a buddy die in front of them or enemy bullets clipping through other enemies). It takes some rather unpleasant discoveries to figure out that monday is actually saturday when you had assumed otherwise.

I don't really mean it being a PS2 game being a negative (I've thought the same of Ace Combat 7 and I loved it because of that), it mostly refers to some elements in the game give off the impression they were flinging shit on the wall to see what stuck as a callback to a time when people were still experimenting with the design at large. Then you've got minor 'wut'-inducing implementations in regards to QoL, like spirits being automatically sucked in but money requires you to hold down the button to do so, grabbing onto ledges requires you to press a separate button instead of holding forwards or jump like in most other games, new items not being automatically equipped in free slots, and upgrading power/vitality/skills having to be done at statues instead of on the spot because... that's how they did it in Wizardry/Souls? Not bad per se, just something strangely different.
Spoiler
illusion attack can be dealt with by using that pop seed thing? The guy before her literally tells you what to do and gives you some. I had a few more from the snek valley earlier too.
The seeds didn't spirit away all illusions, just most of them, which isn't 100% safe either for dealing with granny, and I have some qualms about using limited consumables in a game where progress is saved after death. I don't really want to use limited supplies for a fight with the knowledge that I might end up dying in the process so the consumables end up being wasted, on top of not being able to use them in future attempts.
Playing NASCAR is just the most consistent way of dealing with the ghosts
Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Durandal wrote: new items not being automatically equipped in free slots, and upgrading power/vitality/skills having to be done at statues instead of on the spot because... that's how they did it in Wizardry/Souls? Not bad per se, just something strangely different.
Souls games equip stuff on a free slot when you pick it up and it annoys the fuck out of me.
Upgrades at statues i like because it gives you a reason to return to your little basecamp.
Spoiler
Fair enough. Yeah I was left with one snappy seed thing by the end and I don't know of any source for them so was starting to feel antsy..
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

I figured out that I'm really enjoying the game as long as I stay away from the boss fights. I actually really like the stealth, and I like engaging in most "zako" battles. Also the world really connects to itself in classic From manner (though it's hindered a little by everything being built from nearly identical pagodas, as well as immediately accessible fast travel). It really likes doing the "go up high and enjoy the view as you try to identify all the places you have already been" thing. It feels like a really low-tier From game, which is still relatively decent I guess.

I still have quite a few different places I can go, and tallying up I just realised that I have no less than 10(!) different boss fights I can go directly to try my hand at right now, of which at least three are blocking progress in some direction.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Sumez wrote:I still have quite a few different places I can go, and tallying up I just realised that I have no less than 10(!) different boss fights I can go directly to try my hand at right now, of which at least three are blocking progress in some direction.
I don’t know how to tell you this but...those aren’t the boss fights!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by it290 »

The game really does seem to open up and become more interesting and exciting the further you progress. I'd been stuck on a few of the early minibosses in the first couple of areas, had to grind out some items and a level and was able to make progress on a few fronts simultaneously, at which point the game hit me with a few surprises I had definitely not been expecting. After clearing a few of the foes that had been stopping me, I took a break and watched dunkey's video on the game, and holy shit am I both terrified and excited for some of the stuff coming up.

The one thing that's a bit of a mystery to me at this point is the skill tree—I probably just suck, but because I'd gotten stuck I grinded out a few skill points to get what I needed and it seems like it's possible to unlock basically the whole skill tree without progressing much into the game if your'e persistent enough. I suppose there are probably several skill books acquired later in the game that make you even more badass?
Sumez wrote:I figured out that I'm really enjoying the game as long as I stay away from the boss fights.
If you do that, you won't get the prayer beads you need to move forward—you're essentially doing a SL1 run at that point. Better to strategize and figure out what you need to do to overcome them (a large part of which generally involves clearing out the zako around them so you can take out the stronger enemy unhindered).
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by rapoon »

Illyrian wrote: I'm trying to beat Genichiro at the top of the tower and I've died enough times overall at this point that apparently I've infected characters I've never even met, like 2 surgeons and some other people.
Spoiler
This is where I am. I've gone just about everywhere else I know where to go to prepare and/or strengthen my character. This goes well beyond frustration. I can get him to his 3rd phase ~ 50% of the time now and he obliterates me before I can get his health down 50%. I had the opportunity to fight against him in the PC version at a friends house this evening; it may as well be a different game. I didn't beat him but my parry and dodge success rate when from 20-30% to 90%.
I've repurchased the game for the PC and I'm starting over. There are fights later on that require such acute timing, the FPS disparity between a PC (solid 60) and base PS4 (10-30) results in input lag and a gargantuan gulf in difficulty.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Necronopticous wrote:
Sumez wrote:I still have quite a few different places I can go, and tallying up I just realised that I have no less than 10(!) different boss fights I can go directly to try my hand at right now, of which at least three are blocking progress in some direction.
I don’t know how to tell you this but...those aren’t the boss fights!
Kind of a weird context to argue about semantics, I think.

I'm talking about larger named enemies that are immensely harder than the regular ones, have unique movesets, multiple healthbars, and don't respawn when you kill them. Most of them are also encountered with some sort of ceremony, often even blocking all exits making it impossible to escape once the fight is engaged. If you don't want to call these boss-like enemies "bosses", you'll have to come up with another name I can use, but the point is the same.
Some of these are larger bosses important to the story, while others are just big guys with a name that I can choose to ignore, but most of them are equally frustrating to fight.
In fact, so far the "stage bosses" or "memory bosses" or whatever you'd want to call them, have been much less of an annoyance to me than the mini-bosses that tend to require strict parries, and surround themselves with various mooks.
it290 wrote:If you do that, you won't get the prayer beads you need to move forward—you're essentially doing a SL1 run at that point. Better to strategize and figure out what you need to do to overcome them (a large part of which generally involves clearing out the zako around them so you can take out the stronger enemy unhindered).
Quite the contrary, exploring the world have rewarded me with multiple flask upgrades and even a couple of prayer beads, without having to fight anyone, and I now feel much better prepared for going back to some of those early boss characters. On top of that, I've unlocked a few more subweapons and gotten a lot of resources for upgrading them.
Not banging my head repeatedly against a boss wall has also resulted in building up enough exp for a ton of skill points ready for me to invest in more helpful skills.
Exploring the world without the upgrades to vitality and damage hasn't really made it notably harder at all, and now I have the option to pick these fights in the order most advantageous to me.

As I see it, the biggest disadvantage is that once I actually start fighting these guys, I'll suffer from serious fatigue of a string of frustrating fights.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Did anyone talk about the game's GIANT BLACK COCKS yet?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

That's hot!

I started playing some Dark Souls again last night. Had a good time with old friends The Gaping Dragon and Quelaag.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Sumez I feel like it wasn't necessary to leave the mini-boss dudes for that long, that's if you're talking about the early game ones.
However I did mostly blunder my way through them as evidenced in my video and mastery is far far off from where I am.

I find it easier to just "go with the flow" (hahah) rather than stare intently at their swings trying to find perfect deflects time and time again. "
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

It's not really necessary for anything other than my temper.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Illyrian »

Oh well.

I'm done with this game now anyway. The boss fight at the top of the pagoda (you know the one) is totally ridiculous and it's actually just not fun anymore.

I hope everyone else here can enjoy the game, but I can't!
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Sumez wrote:Did anyone talk about the game's GIANT BLACK COCKS yet?
Spoiler
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Spoiler
Big Bird got burned
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Sumez wrote:It's not really necessary for anything other than my temper.
Haha having just met spear-twat outside the moonlit tower I get what you mean now.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Illyrian wrote:Oh well.

I'm done with this game now anyway. The boss fight at the top of the pagoda (you know the one) is totally ridiculous and it's actually just not fun anymore.

I hope everyone else here can enjoy the game, but I can't!
Don’t give up! That boss is actually incredible to perform once you get the timings down. You can do it dude, just take a break from him to steady yourself.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Blinge wrote:
Sumez wrote:It's not really necessary for anything other than my temper.
Haha having just met spear-twat outside the moonlit tower I get what you mean now.
Fucccc me I finally killed him after say 10 attempts.
I had a cheeky little run from reservoir Statue, along the wall, grapple the tree, grapple up to him then sprint past before he sees you. So you can jump up to the tower roof and get a sneak-attack on him that won't aggro the sword boi below.

I was quite intent on not fighting anyone else but sometimes they'd wander over which was a fucking nightmare.
I'm only at attack power 2 with 2 prayer necklaces atm. When I finally beat 'seven' spearmun it was exhilirating!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Anyone know what's up with this guy?

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Can't seem to interact with him in anyway... haven't tried attacking though, at the risk of doing something wrong.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Seems like nothing...maybe just an indicator that there is a path above? I couldn’t figure out anything special, anyway!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BrianC »

Sumez wrote:Anyone know what's up with this guy?

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Can't seem to interact with him in anyway... haven't tried attacking though, at the risk of doing something wrong.
There's a cute creature near him. If you find it, he will give you advice on how to take care of it. If you don't follow his advice, the creature will multiply and breed more menacing and evil creatures.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by rapoon »

Took down
Spoiler
genchiro
Christ, that felt good. I’ve really enjoyed grappling around on the Ashina Castle rooftops, reminded me quite a bit of Tenchu. Comedic encounters went over well
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guys on kites
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

I actually reached that fight a few days ago, but haven't even given it a serious attempt yet.
From people's reports, it sounds like I should just stay away as long as possible.

EDIT: I just randomly watched one of the many Facebook ads for this game, and was a little surprised by the English voice acting. The game defaults to Japanese, and I didn't even realise anything else was an option.
It feels very apt due to the setting, but I always really liked the English voice acting in pretty much all the Souls games. Did anyone here try the English voices, and if so, how do they stack up?
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Re: From Software 'n such

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