From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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guigui
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by guigui »

Necronopticous wrote:Good luck you guys. This game is the Real Fucking Deal. Let me introduce you to your new friend, 死.
Obscura wrote:Wow, Sekiro is fucking trash. Luckily, I was able to determine that in 68 minutes, so it's refund time.

Can't wait to see how the people who claim that Flash Guard ruins Ys defend a game where Flash Guard is literally the entire game, aside from PS1-era context-sensitive controls that don't work worth a shit.

Oh, and From is jumping on the "SAD DAD IS SAD, NOW FIGHT A BOSS THAT YOU'RE SCRIPTED TO LOSE TO IN THE PROLOGUE TO ESTABLISH A RIVAL" AAA braindead bullshit bandwagon. My fucking god, what a piece of shit.
I love reading this thread. Obscura is the show-man, you counter attack guys :popcorn:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Man you guys got around to playing it already?
I wish I didn't have a job to maintain today. :P
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I've put about 4 hours into it, and I'm going to bed now. My eyesight is going out. Old age.

I have to play this more before I can "score" it, or whatever. It's a different animal than Souls, but it still has it's DNA in it. But it feels like something different.
I'm impressed and thrown off at the same time. This will take some getting used to.

At the least, it's a very good action/adventure game. I'll have to play a lot more to see if it's "amazing" or not. I'm so early on.

Some of the mini-bosses are driving me nuts.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Sumez wrote:Man you guys got around to playing it already?
I wish I didn't have a job to maintain today. :P
I managed to score a copy on Wednesday and I took two weeks PTO for the occasion. My wife & I have put in roughly 20 hours and here we are at 3:47 AM going into Friday and I guess we really should be in bed but that would mean putting down the controller...
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Marc »

I fear this one will probably be too hard for me. I mean, I only managed my first solo DS run last year (although I found that easier than I'd expected), and the harder parts of Bloodbourne tore me a new one. Eagerly awaiting your impressions.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

I fucking love it.
It's called adapting, man. My regular souls tactics won't work here? Okay, i'll do something else or try to play as intended. *shrug*
And the context sensitive actions do work? the only time they don't is if I'm too far away? or stood right underneath the awning i'm trying to grapple to.

I do however play at an absolute snail pace, savouring each nook and cranny. ew.
For that reason and so that either spoilers, observations, or Obscura's negative brainwaves don't affect the rest of my playthrough.. I'll be taking leave of this thread until i've played most of the game. :mrgreen:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Shelcoof »

Obscura wrote:Wow, Sekiro is fucking trash. Luckily, I was able to determine that in 68 minutes, so it's refund time.

Can't wait to see how the people who claim that Flash Guard ruins Ys defend a game where Flash Guard is literally the entire game, aside from PS1-era context-sensitive controls that don't work worth a shit.

Oh, and From is jumping on the "SAD DAD IS SAD, NOW FIGHT A BOSS THAT YOU'RE SCRIPTED TO LOSE TO IN THE PROLOGUE TO ESTABLISH A RIVAL" AAA braindead bullshit bandwagon. My fucking god, what a piece of shit.
Okay..... I need you to outline every single detail on why you find it trash.

I'm hyped for the game so it would be good to hear what you have to say
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

But do you really want more video game opinions from Obscura? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Shelcoof »

Steamflogger Boss wrote:But do you really want more video game opinions from Obscura? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Regardless what other people say.... I'm getting the game 8)

It's just interesting to hear what others have to say :D
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by jepjepjep »

Happy Sekiro Day, everyone!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Shelcoof wrote:Okay..... I need you to outline every single detail on why you find it trash.
1. The combat is absolute dogshit. Every enemy has two healthbars, but the "regular" healthbar is so fucking long that you'll never kill anyone by emptying it, so all that matters is the "critical hit" healthbar. There are two reliable ways to damage the "critical hit" healthbar -- stealth attacks and parries. This means the game is entirely about trying to guess when invisible hitboxes are "close enough" to hitting you that parries will trigger. It's Ys Flash Guards all over again, except you don't even have Flash Move this time.

2. The stealth is absolute dogshit. The movement is all based on context-sensitive button presses, a "design" idea that needed to stay in the '90s, but a lot of the context sensitive options make you commit by jumping off a ledge before you even get to see if the context-sensitive prompt is going to come up. Have fun trying to do plunging attacks but the game decides in mid-air "nah bro, you can't do it on that enemy because reasons", so you just land next to three enemies and get raped instantly because the game doesn't have actual "controls", just context-sensitive presses pretending to control the action. Oh, and the age old stealth-game thing of "throw a rock or a bit of trash to make noise" is on a consumable item now... why?

3. The grapple mechanic's implementation is absolute dogshit. Seriously, it's obvious they studied the Dishonored series (so many of Sekiro's systems are bad rip-offs of systems from those games), why didn't they take DH2's version of Far Reach instead of making a game where you ignore the environments in favor of looking at circular hotspots to turn green?

4. Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES.

5. The pacing and storytelling are absolute dogshit. "OMG, SAD DAD IS SAD BECAUSE HE FAILED IN HIS DUTY! HERE, HAVE A SCRIPTED UNWINNABLE BOSS FIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUTORIAL SO YOU HAVE A RIVAL TO GO AGAINST! HERE, HAVE AN THINLY DISGUISED TUTORIAL NPC IN YOUR SAMURAI WEEB NEXUS!" It's every awful AAA "serious game" trend of the last three or four years, delivered without any soul at all, in a game by a developer that's known for breaking these molds.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

I vehemently disagree with most of this but:
Obscura wrote:Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES
I can’t say I understand this choice. Why coins/items don’t auto collect is a mystery to me.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Obscura wrote:The combat is absolute dogshit.
SCRIPTED UNWINNABLE BOSS FIGHT
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dfbmU1WwpZQ
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Eurgh
I really really really want to like Sekiro, but I just can't connect with the combat. I can't.

I'm ready to admit that it's a nice combination of me being unable to leave behind habits from Souls combat, as well as just a good bit of me being overall terrible. But so far almost every "miniboss" battle has only resulted in me mostly getting mad and impatient with the game. I'm not enjoying it. Almost every death I've had so far felt like it was completely out of my hands. I realise it probably wasn't, but I also don't feel like the game is doing anything to communicate what I should be doing different.
In general I'm not very fond of parry based combat, I usually can't figure it out, especially when enemies are this consistently unpredictable. And this game is almost entirely based around it. Not only that, the timing on parrying feels really weird. Like you have to press the button a good deal in advance - despite the game explicitly telling you that you have to time it as the attack connects.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Just came in the mail a few minutes ago, gonna get to it after I'm done gm'ing my friday Tabletop game.

Glad to see Obscura gave it his seal of quality, really looking forward to it now.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Sumez wrote:Eurgh
I really really really want to like Sekiro, but I just can't connect with the combat. I can't.

I'm ready to admit that it's a nice combination of me being unable to leave behind habits from Souls combat, as well as just a good bit of me being overall terrible. But so far almost every "miniboss" battle has only resulted in me mostly getting mad and impatient with the game. I'm not enjoying it. Almost every death I've had so far felt like it was completely out of my hands. I realise it probably wasn't, but I also don't feel like the game is doing anything to communicate what I should be doing different.
In general I'm not very fond of parry based combat, I usually can't figure it out, especially when enemies are this consistently unpredictable. And this game is almost entirely based around it. Not only that, the timing on parrying feels really weird. Like you have to press the button a good deal in advance - despite the game explicitly telling you that you have to time it as the attack connects.
Your impressions are right; the emperor really is naked. Don't listen to the idiots who were going to praise it no matter what because they were scared that if they slammed the new Souls game people would say they weren't hardcore enough.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Shelcoof »

Obscura wrote:
Shelcoof wrote:Okay..... I need you to outline every single detail on why you find it trash.
1. The combat is absolute dogshit. Every enemy has two healthbars, but the "regular" healthbar is so fucking long that you'll never kill anyone by emptying it, so all that matters is the "critical hit" healthbar. There are two reliable ways to damage the "critical hit" healthbar -- stealth attacks and parries. This means the game is entirely about trying to guess when invisible hitboxes are "close enough" to hitting you that parries will trigger. It's Ys Flash Guards all over again, except you don't even have Flash Move this time.

2. The stealth is absolute dogshit. The movement is all based on context-sensitive button presses, a "design" idea that needed to stay in the '90s, but a lot of the context sensitive options make you commit by jumping off a ledge before you even get to see if the context-sensitive prompt is going to come up. Have fun trying to do plunging attacks but the game decides in mid-air "nah bro, you can't do it on that enemy because reasons", so you just land next to three enemies and get raped instantly because the game doesn't have actual "controls", just context-sensitive presses pretending to control the action. Oh, and the age old stealth-game thing of "throw a rock or a bit of trash to make noise" is on a consumable item now... why?

3. The grapple mechanic's implementation is absolute dogshit. Seriously, it's obvious they studied the Dishonored series (so many of Sekiro's systems are bad rip-offs of systems from those games), why didn't they take DH2's version of Far Reach instead of making a game where you ignore the environments in favor of looking at circular hotspots to turn green?

4. Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES.

5. The pacing and storytelling are absolute dogshit. "OMG, SAD DAD IS SAD BECAUSE HE FAILED IN HIS DUTY! HERE, HAVE A SCRIPTED UNWINNABLE BOSS FIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUTORIAL SO YOU HAVE A RIVAL TO GO AGAINST! HERE, HAVE AN THINLY DISGUISED TUTORIAL NPC IN YOUR SAMURAI WEEB NEXUS!" It's every awful AAA "serious game" trend of the last three or four years, delivered without any soul at all, in a game by a developer that's known for breaking these molds.
I'm going to play the game now and see if I agree. Just a heads up I actually never really played a souls game yet so this will be my absolute first. When I say play I mean play it more than 15 minutes
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by it290 »

I'm kind of scared to start this tomorrow given some of the impressions I've seen thus far. Having not played it yet, the comments about the parry-centric combat call to mind some of the initial backlash about Bloodborne ('wtf? I can't block?') which turned out to be one of the best decisions that game made. The differences in story presentation do sound like kind of a bummer, though—almost like Miyazaki is willfully ignoring the things that people have called him a genius for in the past and opting to do the traditional thing instead. Has From gotten too successful for their own good? I hope not.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Squire Grooktook »

My word is law. I shall be the one to judge.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

i haven't bought this yet, kind of scared that obscura is right for once. the whole trope of trying to make a game serious by throwing a kid in the mix is really tiresome to me. why is this game £54 at launch? is that not insane? all of the other from soft games i've bought at launch were £40, although i don't generally buy any other games right away so maybe this is a normal launch price.

i haven't been playing many 'real' video games lately, still obsessed with mtg, so i think i'll wait a while on this one. gonna try to avoid spoilers so i won't be reading this thread any more.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Played several hours.

So far enjoying it, though it doesn't completely re-ignite my fire for the series. If you enjoy the other Souls games, you'll probably enjoy this and find some of the new shit pretty fresh. If you're burned out on 3d action (like me), it's not going to reinvent the wheel, but in short bursts it's reasonably entertaining.

I'm not going to try and argue with him (and I don't plan on responding or reading further), because I'm not an idiot, but for the poor innocent souls who might be mislead, allow me to post some immediately obvious counter arguments to Obscura's usual insane gremlin logic:
Obscura wrote:It's Ys Flash Guards all over again, except you don't even have Flash Move this time.
There are several differences between this and Ys Seven.

The main one is that you can't parry everything.

The second miniboss is an ogre who's (clearly marked) grab attacks you are told cannot be parried at all, even with perfect timing. What's more interesting, he has two: one slow long range one, and one extremely difficult to react to close range one. So not only do you have a legit choice reaction mix-up going (instead of a "simple" timing reaction like most parries), but you're actually encouraged to space yourself correctly, unlike Ys Seven where you stand in front of the boss and parry everything optimally.

The other difference is the same as all the Souls games: parrying has always been a thing in them. What sets them apart is that you're still encouraged to circle and outspace enemy attacks in order to find the ideal timing to counter and poke them, as well as to conserve stamina which is important to both your offensive and defensive repertoire.

This remains true. Baiting out strings of attack to exhaust enemy stamina, and then counter poking them is extremely effective to breaking their guard faster. Which leads into the next point:
Obscura wrote:Every enemy has two healthbars, but the "regular" healthbar is so fucking long that you'll never kill anyone by emptying it, so all that matters is the "critical hit" healthbar. There are two reliable ways to damage the "critical hit" healthbar -- stealth attacks and parries.
Incorrect. One of the most reliable ways to perform a critical attack is to break their guard. Enemies can all block your attacks, but doing so depletes their stamina. Delivering a quick flurry of attacks immediately after they wiff seems a fairly reliable way to inflict massive guard damage and open them up for a critical. Most "zako" strawhat soldiers seem to go down from very quick combo chains this way.

Another important thing left out here is that simply parrying non-zako enemies does NOT lead to a critical hit OR into a guaranteed hit: they can still block, but they lose much more stamina this way. Also, as pointed out in the video Necropotonicus linked, the lower enemy hp, the slower they recover stamina. So you're rewarded extensively for being aggressive and finding windows to rush enemies down (instead of just parrying everything, as this post implies)

So far it seems that the optimal battle strategy is to do a little bit of everything: correct spacing to avoid throws and outspace rushes, pokes/punishes to chip off enemy hp and inflict guard damage, and parries on big attacks to inflict further guard damage. Though I can't say if the game will take full advantage of it yet, it seems to be the case for harder fights based on that video Necropotonicus posted, where he does exactly this.
Obscura wrote:
2. The stealth is absolute dogshit. The movement is all based on context-sensitive button presses
So far the only context sensitive stuff I see is...

-grappling
-hugging walls
-grabbing ledges
-stealth kills

Crouching behind cover and grass is very much not context sensitive and seems to be one of your most effective tools in a variety of situations.

I don't have a problem with the wall/ledge stuff because...well...you can't do that shit without a wall/ledge anyway. Stealth kills so far feel fairly fine to me, and behave probably better and more reliably than backstabs in Souls. It probably would have felt better if they just made it behave like a standard plunging attack in previous Souls games, though.

So far I'm enjoying the stealth, grappling, and the more vertical/3d environments. None of it is particularly deep on its own, but combine them all and you have a game that feels a tad more open and flexible than most Souls games, allowing you to approach environments in several different ways.
Obscura wrote: 4. Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES.
It seems pretty snappy to me so far, partially because you don't have to be close to them. Just pressing Square for half a second seems to suck up everything in the surrounding area. Not defending it, but it didn't take me out of the experience in the slightest.

*edit*

Confirmed that holding the button sucks up almost everything in an entire arena. I've sucked up gold from enemy corpses at the bottom of cliffs I was standing atop, or stood in the center of massive arena and gotten everything from corpses at the far sides.
Obscura wrote: 5. The pacing and storytelling are absolute dogshit. "OMG, SAD DAD IS SAD BECAUSE HE FAILED IN HIS DUTY! HERE, HAVE A SCRIPTED UNWINNABLE BOSS FIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUTORIAL SO YOU HAVE A RIVAL TO GO AGAINST! HERE, HAVE AN THINLY DISGUISED TUTORIAL NPC IN YOUR SAMURAI WEEB NEXUS!" It's every awful AAA "serious game" trend of the last three or four years, delivered without any soul at all, in a game by a developer that's known for breaking these molds.
Unwinnable boss fights to set up a rival have been a thing since 8-bit jrpg's. Hell it's how fucking Mega Man X opens.

I can understand people maybe raising an eyebrow to the fact that Wolf is protecting a young boy -considering current trend memes- but it didn't feel particularly cloying here. Given the boys uncharacteristically serene nature for someone of his age, it didn't feel like it was trying to evoke the same "OMG poor kid can't fend for himself must protecc" and more that he's simply an otherworldly maguffin.

Not that I'm particularly engaged either, mind you. But it's mostly inoffensive and the cutscenes are short.
Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

I couldn't stay away from the thread. I remembered that talking about the game while it's new and i'm in the first reactions time period is a novel thing to me, I wasn't there for the release of any other From game!

Well thanks Squire for writing that stuff so I don't have to haha. I'll add a couple of things.
Squire Grooktook wrote:
Obscura wrote:Every enemy has two healthbars, but the "regular" healthbar is so fucking long that you'll never kill anyone by emptying it, so all that matters is the "critical hit" healthbar. There are two reliable ways to damage the "critical hit" healthbar -- stealth attacks and parries.
Incorrect. One of the most reliable ways to perform a critical attack is to break their guard. Enemies can all block your attacks, but doing so depletes their stamina. Delivering a quick flurry of attacks immediately after they wiff is a fairly reliable way to inflict massive guard damage and open them up for a critical. Most "zako" strawhat soldiers seem to go down from very quick combo chains this way.
I would add that the non-hatted baldy boi enemies are even more zako. You can just rush them down by swinging, and their posture is broken, leaving them dead very quickly.

What helps is if we actually use the correct terms; by using generic terms like critical or guard we misunderstand or obscure the actual game mechanics :wink:
For the sake of anyone wondering -

Deathblow - A swift canned animation that actually kills normal enemies. It's not merely a critical that hurts them, they will always die.
If it's a boss with two red orbs, that's because you need two deathblows to put them down. I don't even know if you can actually kill them without a DB.
Sneaking up on an enemy allows you to DB them, for an insta-kill.
Or even score one of the necessary DBs to kill a miniboss, therefore halving your job.

Posture - Break an enemy's posture, and you can hit a deathblow. If your posture is broken, you're staggered and open to taking a hit.
Think of it like an expanded form of poise from souls. Blocking and getting hit reduce posture for you and the enemies. Your goal is always to break their posture and hit a deathblow, the times I've wanted to reduce their hp as the main goal are very rare indeed.
It doesn't work the same way as stamina or poise from souls, so posture it is!

Protip I just learned: if your posture-break meter at the bottom has filled up and you're about to get staggered. Hold block! Your posture comes back quicker. That's a big change.
So you're rewarded extensively for being aggressive and finding windows to rush enemies down (instead of just parrying everything, as this post implies)
Thas Right. Don't just stand there like a fucking muppet waiting for an attack to parry. It's less effective and wayyy less fun.
None of it is particularly deep on its own, but combine them all and you have a game that feels a tad more open and flexible than most Souls games, allowing you to approach environments in several different ways.
This is what I like about Sek really. It's not a pure stealth game so the mechanics are never gonna be as deep or polished as a Thief or MGS, but it's à la carte style. Have a little bit of stealth, have a bloodbath when that goes awry or if the mood takes you.
Obscura wrote: 4. Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES.
Why so much hyperbole man. I wonder if people actually get convinced by this type of exaggeration.
Do you get this mad IRL and thrash around the room with your glorious metal locks floating in the air anime style w/ red rage aura?

You hold it for literally a second, as you're moving off, fighting someone else, or looking around. It's usually money or little tidbit/ ammo items or something like that. If you wanna stand and wait and get mad about it, that's on you.

One thing i will say, because i'm actually capable of conceding points (imagine that!).
If there's never a reason not to pick up loot, then why have to hold a button, it could just fly to you automatically, even after a brief delay.
Squire Grooktook wrote: I can understand people maybe raising an eyebrow to the fact that Wolf is protecting a young boy -considering current trend memes- but it didn't feel particularly cloying here.
Yeah i mean. If you wanna get mad about it you have to reduce the actual characters to their ages, to obscure the point.
Is 'wolf' the boy's dad? No. Are they related? No. Is he sad? Not really, he's more despondent about failing his duty and being dishonoured.
The ninja mang is actually subordinate to the kid, because the kid is his liege lord, bows to him n shit.
but no, sad dad, EXACTLY the same as god of war!
Is this the last of us 3?
Obscura wrote: Don't listen to the idiots who were going to praise it no matter what because they were scared that if they slammed the new Souls game people would say they weren't hardcore enough.
Easy, tiger. No need for that.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Shelcoof wrote:Just a heads up I actually never really played a souls game yet so this will be my absolute first. When I say play I mean play it more than 15 minutes
This might actually be a pretty big advantage, I think.

Just to give my own response to some of Obscura's criticism... I don't agree with it all, but he has a few points.
Obscura wrote: 1. The combat is absolute dogshit. Every enemy has two healthbars, but the "regular" healthbar is so fucking long that you'll never kill anyone by emptying it, so all that matters is the "critical hit" healthbar.
I don't see an issue with this really. It's what the game decided to base its combat on, and it sounds all fine to me.
This means the game is entirely about trying to guess when invisible hitboxes are "close enough" to hitting you that parries will trigger.
This is my biggest issue however. The combat is all "guess the hitbox". It's not fun to play. I like games to be fun.
2. The stealth is absolute dogshit. The movement is all based on context-sensitive button presses, a "design" idea that needed to stay in the '90s, but a lot of the context sensitive options make you commit by jumping off a ledge before you even get to see if the context-sensitive prompt is going to come up. Have fun trying to do plunging attacks but the game decides in mid-air "nah bro, you can't do it on that enemy because reasons", so you just land next to three enemies and get raped instantly because the game doesn't have actual "controls", just context-sensitive presses pretending to control the action
The stealth works well to me. It's easy enough to pull off that it isn't frustrating, but sneaking up on people feels very satisfying.
its use is super limited though. Usually sneaking up on one person has the tendency to immediately alert 7 others in the vicinity, and especially when you are dealing with multiple enemies, the combat becomes frustrating rather than simplistic and rewarding.
I find myself running around a lot just to split up any followers and being able to take them out one at a time. I can't imagine that's the intended gameplay, but then again I'm also unsure what is.
Oh, and the age old stealth-game thing of "throw a rock or a bit of trash to make noise" is on a consumable item now... why?
Not a fan of all the consumables either. It never feels advantageous to waste them in a situation where you don't know if you're gonna make it anyway. Honestly, I have the same issue in the souls games, where I almost never use the consumables that buff your weapons. I'm sure it's great for speedrunners though.
3. The grapple mechanic's implementation is absolute dogshit. Seriously, it's obvious they studied the Dishonored series (so many of Sekiro's systems are bad rip-offs of systems from those games), why didn't they take DH2's version of Far Reach instead of making a game where you ignore the environments in favor of looking at circular hotspots to turn green?
Not sure how it works in DH2, but I think it works well in Sekiro. That said, looking out for circles and waiting for them to turn green feels very abstract and mechanical, and is kinda of at odds with the typical From Software atmospheric presentation and world building (more about that later..). And when you need them in the flow of the action, it feels extremely clumsy.
4. Looting bodies is absolute dogshit. "Hold down X for half an hour to pick up money"... why? EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE LETS YOU TAP ONE BUTTON FOR THIS, ASSHOLES.
This feels really unimportant. I like it though. Turning my character into a vacuum cleaner for all the dead bodies surrounding him is weirdly satisfying.
5. The pacing and storytelling are absolute dogshit.
The overall presentation of the game is weird to me. And I'm not gonna lie, as much as I didn't want From to make "yet another Souls", this game just doesn't seem to evoke the From Software atmosphere that I've been longing for. It gets a little better later on, but the introductiory tutorial stage especially feels bad, as you are guided into a forced stealth section followed by a bunch of clearly marked ledges for you to climb on, similar to the yellow colors in HZD or Uncharted.
Aside from a couple of From staples (like the "bonfire" and such), this really just felt like the bog standard modern AAA game I've played over and over, and in that regard it's actually perfectly well done, and would be perfectly acceptable if this wasn't From Software. It's hard to criticize a game for what it doesn't have, but it's also hard for me to ignore what is missing.
In general, exploring the game world just doesn't feel as exciting and involving as almost any From game (including DS2) does. You don't have the mystery of the unknown waiting around every corner, the game constantly whacks you over the head with exposition like no From game before it, and the setting feels completely like a place I have already been in a thousand other Japanese games. In fact it overall looks incredibly much like Nioh, which I guess is unsurprising.
Obscura wrote: Don't listen to the idiots who were going to praise it no matter what because they were scared that if they slammed the new Souls game people would say they weren't hardcore enough.
I'm pretty sure this place is safe from that kind of stuff.
Last edited by Sumez on Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Necronopticous
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

I beat Genichiro earlier tonight! Incredibly fun fight once you study it a bit.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Sumez wrote: This is my biggest issue however. The combat is all "guess the hitbox". It's not fun to play. I like games to be fun.
Parrying timing/hitboxes feel like...every other game in the genre with parrying to me. I don't feel much of a difference in execution between this and...every other instance of the mechanic ever. If anything it feels more forgiving because doing it too early doesn't mean you get hit (as it would in every Platinum title, for instance, with the exception of MGR). It just means you do a normal block and pose some posture/stamina.

So far I'm liking the combat (perhaps better than a good chunk of the previous Souls games), like I said. Nice mix of parrying, spacing, mix ups, etc.

Same with the levels. A little bit of stealth. A little bit of exploration. A little bit of brawling. Variety is good. I think you're not supposed to kill everyone with stealth, but just pick off 2-3 enemies to make the ensuing brawl a bit easier.

But we'll see how things shape up later on.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

You face... Genichiro Ashina

That's a badass line. Not sure if it would work in spoken English though haha.
Obscura wrote: Oh, and the age old stealth-game thing of "throw a rock or a bit of trash to make noise" is on a consumable item now... why?
Consumables in MGS games.
consumables in thief. Hello noise maker arrows?
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Durandal
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Durandal »

I've never played any Souls game (for no reason in particular), so I'm kind of wondering what my opinion as someone untainted by Souls will be. The prospect of pure and simple combat with some light stealth brings to mind the good ol' days of Far Cry 1 is kind of a rarity nowadays.
It's hard to really take most opinions on Sekiro online into serious consideration because a lot of it gives off the impression that the person saying them doesn't fully understand the game yet (one guy made a whole post about ranting about shield enemies, and someone else mentioned you could use your axe to easily split shields and he was like "oh...") or that people are coming in with overly high expectations, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if From didn't leave some glaring core issues or half-baked features in, so I don't really know whether to swipe everything under the GIT GUD rug or if there's some validity in the criticism already available. From isn't exactly known for their thorough tutorials, either.
Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.
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Squire Grooktook
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Yeah I'm still somewhat on the fence.

So far I'm enjoying myself, but I've been told some of the later bosses are just "memorize the parry timings or die" and throw out some of the more interesting features I mentioned (a friend tells me certain bosses don't even have Posture), so we'll see if they're talking bullshit or not when I get there.

For what it's worth, the ideas here are mostly good so far.
RegalSin wrote:Japan an almost perfect society always threatened by outsiders....................

Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
Aeon Zenith - My STG.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

I experimented against them shield enemies without axe and jesus H christ I couldn't do a damn thing.
I can see how someone might get to them without getting the shield either.
especially your egoraptor "I MUST BE MAKING FORWARD PROGRESS RIGHT NOW OR THE GAME IS DOGSHIT" types.

[also i nearly didnt' find the axe cause i thought there might be some sort of karmic punishment for taking from a buddhist shrine]
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Squire Grooktook wrote: So far I'm enjoying myself, but I've been told some of the later bosses are just "memorize the parry timings or die"
The early sub-bosses are "memorize the parry timings or die". Like that guy with the polearm in the early "memory" segment. Missing a parry will kill you, getting the parry will kill him.
:\

At least they often do die fast, when they die. But so do you.
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