From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

__SKYe wrote:and I'm still pondering whether to continue with the company's catalog on the PSX (either Shadow Tower, or the first Armored Core) or to move on to the 4th game. Can you guys give me some thoughts on those PS titles? Is Shadow Tower as good/better than the King's Field games, and/or is Armored Core a decent game?
ABSOLUTELY DO SHADOW TOWER!!

I'm surprised you'd be torn between KF2 and 3 though, as I felt 3 was a gigantic step down, despite having its own qualities. The thing is, KF3 is a mediocre to decent first person action RPG, while KF2 is a masterpiece of game design. Shadow Tower is closer to KF2, focusing a lot more on the dungeon crawling aspect than the adventure and storytelling. I already wrote my thoughts on it previously, so you might want to find that post. Necronopticous dropped quite a few thoughts on it as well, around the thread.

It starts out a little slow, but the further you get into it, the more you realise how much it has to offer. The variation and feeling of rewarding exploration is much bigger than what you'd have thought from the tight winding corridors of the first area. It's a game that constantly has something new to offer.

Both Necro and I were drawing our own maps as we played. I'm not sure it's a big advantage, but some areas are definitely very cryptic, especially with the cripplingly short draw distance. There are definitely areas where you'll do fine without it, such as the world of fire.
__SKYe wrote: I have a question about the cunes/monster rates, though: are there really only that many cunes and monsters in the entire game? If so, I take it that after a while, you simply won't encounter any more enemies randomly spawning anymore. A bit weird, considering how it was in the King's Field games, but probably for the best, taking into account the equipment durability stat.
Everything in Shadow Tower is finite, including healing potions which will kind of be your main currency due to how it's linked to equipment durability.
Don't worry though, as per King's Field standards, you'll be stupidly overpowered by the end of the game, and have more than enough cunes to get through.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by __SKYe »

Sumez wrote:I'm surprised you'd be torn between KF2 and 3 though, as I felt 3 was a gigantic step down, despite having its own qualities. The thing is, KF3 is a mediocre to decent first person action RPG, while KF2 is a masterpiece of game design.
Have to agree, though I wouldn't say KF3 is that much worse than KF2. I guess what I most liked about KF3 was its more open-world-y design, as opposed to the previous games's being mostly confined to dungeons. Note that I don't think is particularly better than the other, rather, KF3's world was a bit of a fresh breeze after the first two games in that regard.
I know that this is arguable though, as, even though KF2 is confined to a single island it still has plenty of different locales to offer, and KF3 'overworld' isn't really that much different. On the mechanics, including the run button and the smoothness of the movement, I definitely prefer KF2.
Being away from KF2, I was no longer accurately aware of how much worse KF3's slow movement speed is, but after starting Shadow Tower, my oh my. :o
Sumez wrote:I already wrote my thoughts on it previously, so you might want to find that post. Necronopticous dropped quite a few thoughts on it as well, around the thread.
It starts out a little slow, but the further you get into it, the more you realise how much it has to offer. The variation and feeling of rewarding exploration is much bigger than what you'd have thought from the tight winding corridors of the first area. It's a game that constantly has something new to offer.
Just read them, and I'm glad you guys like it as well. I'll have to play more, but I'm already really liking it.
Sumez wrote:Both Necro and I were drawing our own maps as we played. I'm not sure it's a big advantage, but some areas are definitely very cryptic, especially with the cripplingly short draw distance. There are definitely areas where you'll do fine without it, such as the world of fire.
So am I. :lol:
It's part of the fun, and honestly I enjoy doing it (part of the reason I like the first Phantasy Star and the Etrian Odyssey games, for example). I take it that means there are no maps in game?
Sumez wrote:Everything in Shadow Tower is finite, including healing potions which will kind of be your main currency due to how it's linked to equipment durability.
Don't worry though, as per King's Field standards, you'll be stupidly overpowered by the end of the game, and have more than enough cunes to get through.
Ah cheers, just wanted to know, since everytime I come back to an area there are usually a couple enemies there again, so I wasn't sure if the counters were accurate or not.
By the potions being linked to equipment durability, do you mean you trade potions to repair them, or even trade potions for items? I've only found two types of stores for now: one that trades items for cunes, and another that gives you potions for equipment (broken or not).
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Re: From Software 'n such

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__SKYe wrote:I take it that means there are no maps in game?
Absolutely none :)
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by __SKYe »

Gotcha, I had a feeling it would be so. Given the smaller, but more numerous areas in ST compared to KF, an in-game map would eat away at the exploration aspect, I think.

Also:
Me wrote:By the potions being linked to equipment durability, do you mean you trade potions to repair them, or even trade potions for items? I've only found two types of stores for now: one that trades items for cunes, and another that gives you potions for equipment (broken or not).
Nevermind, I just found the first repair shop, which repairs equipment for HP. Seems like a neat system, geared towards repairing multiple pieces of equipment at once (as much as your HP allows), so as to save on HP potions. That, and deciding which weapons/gear to break completely, since you can still trade them for potions, and which ones (and how many) to keep.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Yeah, it's really scarce early on, but I ended up with a ton of armor and weapons by the end of the game. :)
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

The equipment durability system in Shadow Tower so far beyond anything I've ever seen in any other video game that I just found myself in perpetual awe at the lengths that they went to incorporate it. Its tendrils reach into every other formative aspect of the game to an extent that you could say that it is the actual cornerstone of the experience. After getting your head fully around Shadow Tower, you really have to wonder why equipment degradation is in the Souls series at all.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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This baller right here played the game with no visual reference other than his prodigious (ly bad) memory :wink:
__SKYe wrote: The map completion/discovery rate is also pretty neat, as you can finally tell whether you've explored an area fully or if there's something yet left to be discovered.
Hm. I think that's the enemies defeated in each area tbh. It seemed to me that the respawning is actually finite and that's denoted by the completion rating.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Blinge wrote:This baller right here played the game with no visual reference other than his prodigious (ly bad) memory :wink:
Haha, not bad. But mapping the areas is part of the fun. :)
Blinge wrote:Hm. I think that's the enemies defeated in each area tbh.
Really? The count is something like 630 monsters, and it doesn't seem to change when reaching a new world (only reached the Earth World so far). I guess only a part of full total is allocated for each area, though, otherwise you'd be able to just keep spawning enemies on the starting area and there would be no monsters later on. :o
Blinge wrote:It seemed to me that the respawning is actually finite and that's denoted by the completion rating.
Didn't think of that, but it would make sense, since at one point I'd explored a good chunk of one of the Human World areas, but the area completion rate was stll at 0%, and it wasn't until I defeated some monsters that it went up. Pretty odd though, as I think it should be a map discovery rate. :?
Sumez wrote:Yeah, it's really scarce early on, but I ended up with a ton of armor and weapons by the end of the game. :)
I already have a fair amount even now, though most are already at 1 durability, or I've already traded them in. What I've been doing is basically keeping around 2 of each type (slash/stab/blunt) and use the rest until they break, both to spare the better weapons and to trade them in for potions. My rationale is that, this way I can have a few weapons in case I encounter several monsters that are above any single weapon durability, and also to better utilize the repair shop, otherwise your wasting potions on repairing just a few weapons.

EDIT: You're absolutely right Blinge. Area completion percentage has nothing to do with exploration or items, and depends solely on enemies defeated.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Well I set today aside and played Bloodborne from start to finish incl. all bosses. I was still taking my time and talking to people etc.. so by the time evening came along I didn't wanna play Old Hunters.

Whew, feel kind of drained now.
What a good waste of my life.

Ebrietas is hard with Eileen's Blades 'o' Mercy!
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Blinge wrote:Ebrietas is hard with Eileen's Blades 'o' Mercy!
Back in 2015 I did a challenge glass cannon type run of the chalice dungeons with the Blades of Mercy (I began to affectionately refer to them as The Butterknives). It was probably the hardest thing I had done in the Souls series at that point. Here's Isz Gravestone Ebrietas which is a super-powered version of her. She was hard, but nothing compared to, say, Bloodletting Beast in Pthumeru Ihyll
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

That's a special kind of masochism, Necron. :lol:

The time has come again I fear. But if the fates smile upon us we will meet again. Farewell, dear friend

Edit: Been messing around.

Man the Rifle Spear is absolute trash
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Speaking of Shadow Tower, how much English is in the Japanese version? I know there is at least one NPC fully voiced for the game region, but how about other stuff?
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Haven't played the Japanese version, but I don't recall any text/speech being strictly necessary to complete the game, though it does do a lot to contribute to world building, as well as give you an idea of who you should kill and who you shouldn't.
There is one boss through the game that's invincible until you do something, and I think there's a line somewhere that hints at that, but you can probably figure it out anyway.
I think there are also some NPCs that ask you to bring you specific items (or, at least one) - I don't remember if it does so automatically or if you have to use the item. EDIT: Oh yeah, and one occasion where you need to use a (any) sword on a contraption in the wall.

You'll need to be able to understand what each item does though, as well as navigate the menus and stores. At least play the game with a translation guide if one exists.

Every single NPC (including stores) is voiced, at least in the US version. And really horribly so :P
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Re: From Software 'n such

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So to Obscurer's delight I'm sure, I've started Shadow Tower Abyss.
No voice clips here.

Man, what a crushing atmosphere.. + contributes to how I've never felt quite so vulnerable in a Fromsoft game as I do in this.
Got my ass handed to me in the rocky section with fire slingin' eyeball enemies a couple of times before realising I should just run past the god of BUGSU. Rendering that thing defenceless and killing it was a rather enjoyable 'how do ya like me now!?' moment. I like those.
This definitely seems like the hardest of all their first person crawlers, possibly tied with ST though.
I'm dying for save point most of the time, always worried about equipment breaking. One thing it has over ST one is that enemies don't respawn on top of you already swinging!

Obscura I'm not sure why you couldn't stand the speed of KF4 when this is about the same speed but no run button.

Also Bloodborne: That wandering 'japanese' guy in the cell in the DLC.
Sekiro hint?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Huh, STA felt WAAAAAY faster to me. Maybe it was just having the "dual analog control scheme that's not actually analog" that made it feel that way?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Cool, thanks for the rundown Sumez!

Speaking of Shadow Tower Abyss' opening area, I think that there is something missable in the entryway, due to how you have to jump down a hole to exit the area. And speaking of speed, the time-based healing was kind of aggravating.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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I doubt you're supposed to rely on time based healing if you're talking about the regen item you can get? I just got it. My initial joy slipped away pretty quickly, along with my momentum when i realised I'm facing a poison area next.

Blaaagh. Unless I've missed something in the stoney area with the pyro-cyclops-quadrupeds cause I couldn't open any of the 3 doors.
Figure I'll approach poison place from the bug area as it seems like a safer route in?
I have no idea, I had to stop now so to save meant walking all the way back to the "omikron:nomad soul" base ha ha.
Wish there was a save before this blighted poison pit.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Ed Oscuro »

The poison area is the center of one of your early neat environmental meta-puzzles, so enjoy it.

About healing - well, playing through on an emulator with frameskip the first time I was more than tempted to just fast-forward heal myself repeatedly. Needless to say DeS and DS came up with better healing systems.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Right but the actual healing system is the potions though, isn't it?

The only real application of the slow uptick heal is just for a bit of extra when walking around, or perhaps getting 20-50 extra HP to repair something before chugging a potion and moving on.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Ed Oscuro »

I think so, yeah. Systems that let me save items always trigger my OCD, heh. I'll have to play through again sometime, doing it the "right" way.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

I'll never understand what some of you folks have against poison areas. The VIOLENT POISON is a particularly good one, too.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by guigui »

Obscura wrote:I'll never understand what some of you folks have against poison areas. The VIOLENT POISON is a particularly good one, too.
I never played a From game before Demons', but I did enjoy every poison area I encoutered in the Souls games. They do add to the bad mood and I like it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

I never played a From game before Demons'
Grab the fan-patch and play Shadow Tower: Abyss. It's From's best game, and I don't even like any of their other first-person games.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

So, like, is this the best song ever composed for a video game boss?

I think it very well may be the best song ever composed for a video game boss.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

When the cutscene rolled and
Spoiler
Ludwig speaks/ pulls out the Holy Moonlight Sword
I was sat mouth AGAPE.
Like a pogchamp but more surprised.

Then I came in my fucking pants when I heard the second phase's chorus.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Obscura wrote:It's From's best game
Clickbait! :shock:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Do you not agree? Dismembering enemies is a blast (and you can even dismember BOSSES to force them to change their attack patterns!), and the fever-dream nightmare atmosphere is totally unmatched in From's catalog. The dialogue of the first "real" boss (no, not the bug) in particular is some of the strangest yet most compelling I've ever seen in a videogame, and just beautifully hammers home the weirdness.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Obscura wrote:Do you not agree?
Not convinced quite yet. :wink:
Dismembering enemies is a blast (and you can even dismember BOSSES to force them to change their attack patterns!
The dismembering is quite finnicky to me really, especially considering how much faster a lot of the enemies compared to you. Trying to aim for those eyeballs in the white wall area is just frustrating when they're bounding about everywhere. I found myself just mashing down-slash when i finally managed to catch them/ get in past the fireball spam.

As for bosses - So far I've only fought that first lion boi. Couldn't get in without being shot by him, big damoge. After his mane was cut off somehow he came after me so fast and hit so hard that i had no choice but to hide behind pillars and gun him down with revolver. Not sure if i just scrubbed that fight or if it's the only way..
and the fever-dream nightmare atmosphere is totally unmatched in From's catalog. The dialogue of the first "real" boss (no, not the bug) in particular is some of the strangest yet most compelling I've ever seen in a videogame, and just beautifully hammers home the weirdness.
Yeah the atmosphere is amazing! Wish i was playing on a console.
Then again backtracking through safe areas is done on double speed for me now so maybe i don't.

Lion boi's dialogue was cool and unsettling, yes. some of the most compelling in a game? Ehh...
KF4 had some really decent lines from enemies or bosses at times.

Edit: Oh what? My sever bangle is no longer doing the annoying Seal effect on me. I don't know why..
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Uh oh. I'm over the weight limit..

What affect does this have? it's just making an annoying noise and screen effect at the moment.
I don't have any means of dropping something or getting rid of it from where I am though! I followed a one way path to get here!

Edit: OBSCURA HALP:

How do I use float stones??

also when you gonna play the abomination that is Eternal Ring? I wanna hear your opinions on that.
you'll probably say it's better than ST:A :lol:

Editit:
Spoiler
Just killed what's left of the spear-king..i think? That gave me fucking chills.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Leandro »

I've never played a From Software game in my life but I'll start with Dark Souls III, wanna see why people praise this series so much
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