From Software 'n such

[Durandal]

I noticed that holding down the attack button lets you do an unblockable charge attack which enemies can't block, and holding down attack while holding down block lets you do a charge attack with a different animation, though I wouldn't know what makes it any different from the regular one. In any case useful for chipping down enemy health and their posture regen.

[Steamflogger Boss]

This is the best thread on shmups right now. I'm dying.

Looking forward to playing Sekiro after a price drop.

[Blinge]

Missing a parry will kill you, getting the parry will kill him.
:\

haha nope, still had to posture break him after that...


At one point I literally resurrected, with no health items a hit away from death with him stood over me, said "fuck you" and jumped into the river lmao.

[Illyrian]

My only real issue with the game is this dragon rot rubbish.

I'm trying to beat Genichiro at the top of the tower and I've died enough times overall at this point that apparently I've infected characters I've never even met, like 2 surgeons and some other people.

I actually don't understand what the point of this mechanic is, i.e. what was the fun gameplay meant to be derived from it?

I think the combat is fine, but by no means amazing or anything. Whittling down a group of enemies slowly from stealth before taking on the last few is really good fun. It kinda suffers from some balancing issues to do with some enemies. I'm thinking of the chained ogre and also the twinblade wielding enemies in the monk's temple.

Also, specifically to the Genichiro fight, whoever decided that having you deplete his two bars, then fight him again in a harder form without a break in between to replenish your healing items should be fired. It's totally ridiculous.

[Necronopticous]

Whoa, spoilers! I’m not there yet.

[Obscura]

Consumables in MGS games.
consumables in thief. Hello noise maker arrows?

In Thief, you can pick up literally any object in the environment and throw it to make noise. Noisemakers are only there for when you need to put the noise really far away from yourself (even then, they're not all that useful because they send overall alert level through the roof, far moreso than just throwing a random piece of junk does). I'm not much of a fan of the MGS series, but I thought in 4 and 5 you had non-consumable noise making tools?

Also, I have no idea how you guys are able to break anyone's guard by attacking into it, every time I tried that (remembering that the tutorial recommended it), the second of my strikes that hit the guard put me in a huge "bounce back" animation that got me punished for over half of my lifebar every single time. Attacking first is absolute suicide in Sekiro; you have to stand there, dick in hand, waiting for your opponent to do something if you didn't get a stealth kill (which you generally can't predict whether you will or not after jumping off of an elevated place).

[rapoon]

Consumables in MGS games.
consumables in thief. Hello noise maker arrows?

Whistling? Knocking? makes a hell of a lot more sense than throwing a ceramic jar into someones face...


I've relied pretty heavily on charge / thrust attacks that Durandal mentioned, but the enemies catch on quick and will often deflect if I attempt to do it again.
actually, running charged attacks were how I took down

Spoiler

Blazing Bull, which was the most miserable fight I've experienced so far. Yes, I'm aware of firecracker usage.

Regarding the particularly difficult 'normal' enemy:

Spoiler

Purple guy at the 3-storied pagoda. I don't even understand the point of an enemy of this caliber early on. A single deflect puts your posture in the red, 2 hits are a guaranteed kill.

I'm playing on a regular ps4, but I'm strongly considering re-buying it for the PC.

[Blinge]

I don't know. Guess I was thinking of the empty mags you can get as a consumable item.
Guess I was talking out my ass about Thief, didn't remember throwing objects.

If anyone has a reliable way of distracting enemies I'd like to hear it for later playthroughs or if i particularly want to focus on stealth, i'm not doing that as much at the moment.

What i do know Obscuro is you'll never answer to your points being exploded by Squire so meh.

Spoiler

Purple guy at the 3-storied pagoda. I don't even understand the point of an enemy of this caliber early on. A single deflect puts your posture in the red, 2 hits are a guaranteed kill.

Spoiler

I think the 'deflect' is you failing to deflect properly. Maybe that was just a regular block you did. I managed to deflect him a couple of times but yeah he mostly kicked my ass and I'm leaving him till later. Another run out of revives and heals and say "fuck you i'm jumping" moment.
From often put an optional hard-as-balls enemy in the early game.

[evil_ash_xero]

Holy shit this is a divisive game.

My main problem with the game so far is the stealth kills. Everyone should not be alerted. Maybe not everyone, but way too many people. It kind of defeats the point. It's really just "you get to kill one guy for free".

I'm surprised at how hard people are at adjusting to gameplay. Like, I hear "it took me 3 hours to beat a boss!". Jesus.
The Ogre gave me the most grief. Him and his WWE moves.

[rapoon]

The Ogre gave me the most grief. Him and his WWE moves.

20+ attempts for me. he's the offspring of the shark from the fishing hamlet, and a mimic chest. 1/3 of my deaths were the fucker grabbing me and launching me off the side of the cliff. I couldn't get mad, was hilarious.


one of the first skills I unlocked was Mikiri Counter. Description says it requires 'impeccable timing'. bleh, the window of opportunity is huge. makes countering thrust attacks very easy.

[evil_ash_xero]

The Ogre gave me the most grief. Him and his WWE moves.

20+ attempts for me. he's the offspring of the shark from the fishing hamlet, and a mimic chest. 1/3 of my deaths were the fucker grabbing me and launching me off the side of the cliff. I couldn't get mad, was hilarious.


one of the first skills I opened Mikiri Counter. Description says it requires 'impeccable timing'. bleh, the window of opportunity using that skill is huge. makes countering thrust attacks very easy.

I was a bit more green at that point. I had to do much hopping around (people should do this more), and I used my flame vent on him a few times. But his moves are kind of funny. Not so funny when they connect, but he genuinely looks like he's doing something you'd see at Wrestlemania.

[Blinge]

Does the flame thing make it easier? I didn't have it when I fought the giant.

The giant i found annoying cause I was like "alright.. I'll play this part like souls then." and hey presto, I did it.

Can't grab me if i'm always outside your range mate!
(although if it was really souls i'd be rolling past his shoulder all day every day.)

[rapoon]

Does the flame thing make it easier? I didn't have it when I fought the giant.

The giant i found annoying cause I was like "alright.. I'll play this part like souls then." and hey presto, I did it.

Can't grab me if i'm always outside your range mate!
(although if it was really souls i'd be rolling past his shoulder all day every day.)

yea, especially if you have some oil; he'll immediately go into burn state. I ran out of oil and emblems though. I think i got a bit lucky. actually, many of these mini-bosses are giving me more trouble than the regular bosses.
at the end of the fights I'm finding myself with 0 gourd swills left and a tiny sliver of health.

[Blinge]

I haven't even made it to a regular boss yet!

Unless the Drunkard is a regular.. He destroyed my ass so quickly,

Spoiler

and that of my buddy.

I haven't been back since.
Think i'm just about to face one back in Ashina though, as i'm looking out on a big battlefield.

Remember spoilertags *cough* Illyrian. How could you!

[Obscura]

What i do know Obscuro is you'll never answer to your points being exploded by Squire so meh.

How were my points "exploded"? It was "no, ur wrong about the combat because you can take the offensive and I have no evidence for this other than I said so", which anyone who has actually played the game will realize is wrong (if you try to guard break someone with attacks, your second attack that hits their guard will be countered and you'll lose half of your health) and "watching for hotspots in the environment and it taking multiple seconds of holding a button to pick up items doesn't bother me!" in which case, congratulations for having low standards I guess.

[Blinge]

if you try to guard break someone with attacks, your second attack that hits their guard will be countered and you'll lose half of your health

There you have it folks. What you played and did is wrong, because obscura said so this time.

It's more of a rarity to find an enemy that you CAN'T posture break with attacks.

taking multiple seconds of holding a button to pick up items doesn't bother me!"

Y'know. I tried to time it on my phone while i pressed the button. I am genuinely that fucking sad.
It's under two seconds.

However, if you kill several enemies in a given area, then go about your business while holding the vacuum button, boom!
You've actually spent less time "picking up items" than you would have if you'd gone to each corpse individually and pushed a button.

Also there is no pickup animation, so that also makes it quicker than muh DS2.

I'm not suggesting you do this with Sekiro, but have you ever gone back and re-tried a game you denounced as shite, especially on others' advice, and found you were mistaken?

[Obscura]

I'm not suggesting you do this with Sekiro, but have you ever gone back and re-tried a game you denounced as shite, especially on others' advice, and found you were mistaken?

Define "mistaken". Every time I've ever gone back to a game, I've found the same issues that chased me off the first time are still there; on occasion, there's been something positive the first time that's made me go from "fuck this" to "there's something worth seeing here, but you have to slog through a ton of bullshit to get there", but the shit aspects have always still been there and annoying.

Only one time has a game ever gone from "this sucks" to "I actually like this" (Vanquish), but I maintain that game's campaign on difficulties other than God Hard really fucking sucks (it doesn't show its hand for real unless you're playing TCs or GH), and even GH has its fair share of scenes that are really fucking dull for no reason.

That said, in the new era of Steam Refunds, I'm unlikely to ever return to games that I dismiss quickly because I've got a financial incentive to not do so. Also, in Suckiro's case, the failures are so all-encompassing that it would take a lot for me to be willing to try it again anyways.

[Durandal]

That said, in the new era of Steam Refunds, I'm unlikely to ever return to games that I dismiss quickly because I've got a financial incentive to not do so. Also, in Suckiro's case, the failures are so all-encompassing that it would take a lot for me to be willing to try it again anyways

The era of looking for the first excuse to refund a game at the drop of your hat so you never risk potentially sending sixty bucks down the drain?

[Squire Grooktook]

It was "no, ur wrong about the combat because you can take the offensive and I have no evidence for this other than I said so"

I thoroughly explained each point. I used evidence from the video (which explained the mechanics, like enemy posture slowing as enemies take more hp damage), evidence from my own playthrough, mechanics that are literally told to you by pop ups (like throws not being deflect-able) etc. there was no "ur wrong because I said so".

(if you try to guard break someone with attacks, your second attack that hits their guard will be countered and you'll lose half of your health).

After the post I went back and tested things pretty thoroughly. Strawhat soldiers are basically zakos who consistently go down in one combo (block -> block -> guard break -> dead) so you can mow down peeps pretty damn fast. This is not an opinion by the way or abstract game design shit or a "no u". It's something I actually tested in game.

Now, keep in mind, that was primarily a response to "all enemies take forever to kill if you don't parry them.". If you want to argue about later minibosses and bosses (which I know you haven't seen yet), that's another story. But for common mob enemies you'd see an hour in, you are provably wrong. I could make a video if you want.

"countered" by enemies is also misleading. You can block yourself after an enemy blocks you, the only way your getting instant hit like that is if you attack them at the absolute wrong time during the wind up of a super or hyper armored attack. Common enemies so far don't seem to really be capable of shifting momentum like that anyway, though minibosses certainly can. Again though, I stress that I don't know what later enemies can do...but I know what enemies you have seen.

I'm about 3 hours in...so farther then you, and while I can't say if things will stay the way I described (I'm told later bosses punish you heavily for being more agressive, but I dunno if that's just dumbasses and salt)...at this moment in the game, when dealing with normal enemies and minibosses this is how they work.

[Obscura]

That said, in the new era of Steam Refunds, I'm unlikely to ever return to games that I dismiss quickly because I've got a financial incentive to not do so. Also, in Suckiro's case, the failures are so all-encompassing that it would take a lot for me to be willing to try it again anyways

The era of looking for the first excuse to refund a game at the drop of your hat so you never risk potentially sending sixty bucks down the drain?

So I guess you bought every game you ever played the demo of, even if said demo thoroughly unimpressed you?

Sixty eight minutes isn't enough to figure out if a game is good per se (see: Resident Evil 2 remake, which took me longer than 2 hours to see the issues with and why it's a bad game), but it's enough time to root out the obvious turds.

[Mortificator]

I've only tried the very beginning, and it was decent fun.

The game feels more typically modern than Dark Souls, which brings both good and bad points. There's a full soundtrack now, something I complained about in its predecessor, yet there's also a jump-through-hoops tutorial. Speaking of, it's nice to have a jump, and a dodge hop makes more sense than a roll. I won pretty much every fight via parry & counter, but I see from this page's top post that there are moves I didn't notice that let you take a more proactive approach.

[it290]

Spent a few hours with Sekiro today. I really like it. It probably won't top Bloodborne for me, but the combat feels visceral and tense in a way that Souls often doesn't—you find yourself being afraid of the enemies not because they're huge and intimidating but because they're merciless killers who will, well, kill you. The environments and themes don't spark the imagination in the same way Souls does, but you do feel like a ninja waging a desperate battle which is pretty rad. The NPCs are pretty cool, too—I thought both the Sculptor and Emma had a lot more flavor than the doll and Gehrman, for example.

In response to comments about the game being a parry-fest, I don't really buy into that at all (at least in what I've experienced so far). You have a ton of tactical options with the skills and shinobi tools at your disposal, and many of these lead to new and better ways to deal damage and/or break posture vs. what you'd get with just pure swordsmanship. The game explicitly tells you that these skills are 'things a samurai could never do'—I don't think it wants you to just sit there and duel enemies like a regular swordsman. In some respects it's almost Punch-Out DNA in that it's giving you a tell and forcing you to pick a response (from a much wider palette than what Mac had) instead of Souls which normally just boils down to a lot of dodging and counterattacking.

If you look at the last few games in terms of design choices, Souls had a huge range of specialized builds that were focused on doing one or two things. Bloodborne honed that down to a few basic builds (and some gimmick ones) that largely worked like their Souls counterparts but had more variety in individual movesets and options. Sekiro has even fewer builds (basically down to skill path selection), but gives you a wide range of options to work with at any one time. In that way, it seems to move the 'how am I going to play the game?' choice away from a deliberate, planned thing into a realtime decision, and I think that's pretty cool, even if I don't.... exactly like it as much?

[Necronopticous]

Punch-Out

Very astute comparison.

[Illyrian]

Apologies for the lack of spoilers in the last post.

This game REALLY should just give you 15 spirit emblems every time you die. Having to collect them is ridiculous. By the time you have the hang of a fight you can run out of emblems, and therefore be unable to actually use the right tools anymore.

It's not as egregious as being able to run out of blood vials in Bloodborne, but it's still pretty bad.

[Blinge]

You're much further than me Illy, but dang.. I've got hundreds of the things, I barely use my tools at all!
Maybe it's worth buying them whenever you have spare change if like me, you're liable to lose it.

And I just beat the first real boss, Mr. gatekeeper.
Unbelievably fucking epic! oh my goshhh!

I had a couple of attempts, thought "wow, I cannot think of a way I could possibly beat this guy."
Beat it 3rd attempt. Without any major strategy change, just better play, learning the rhythms seemingly through osmosis as can happen with souls bosses.
Although:

Spoiler

I did use the firecracker twice. I've worked with horses before and know how easily they frighten! The fact that this item worked on the boss is super cool.

[Illyrian]

Holy shit this is a divisive game.

My main problem with the game so far is the stealth kills. Everyone should not be alerted. Maybe not everyone, but way too many people. It kind of defeats the point. It's really just "you get to kill one guy for free".

I'm surprised at how hard people are at adjusting to gameplay. Like, I hear "it took me 3 hours to beat a boss!". Jesus.
The Ogre gave me the most grief. Him and his WWE moves.

Regarding this, the enemies are pretty retarded as soon as you jump up 1 level of elevation. I would literally kill one person then just grapple away and wait for the enemies to lose interest. Break LOS and wait 30 seconds and normally they get bored.

[Blinge]

idk lol

[Steamflogger Boss]

Chris Kluwe is on #TeamObscura

https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/statu ... 9211413504

https://twitter.com/ChrisWarcraft/statu ... 9405073408

[Obscura]

What does it say about gamers that in 2019 WoW players have above-average taste?

[Blinge]

No, I think it says everything one would assume about WoW players.