From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Stevens
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Stevens »

So in between all the Bloodborne I snuck in 20 hours of Sekiro.

My previous save file was up to NG+4 where I had everything - arts, tools, all of it. I did return ending twice, severance, once, and purification once. I have not done shura, but I have beaten the bosses of that ending via boss rush. Initial play through was about 85 hours, and the next three were progressively quicker. This time I started a NG play and took my time generally speaking. I had a lot of fun with this one and here are my thoughts -

NG is the hardest game cycle in Sekiro, and it really isn't comparable. The tools and arts make the game easier, but they also make it more fun.
This play the only two combat arts I unlocked were whirlwind and mortal draw. I used whirlwind on every boss and draw came in handy when facing down three or more enemies, especially during the final raid on Ashina. Most of my deaths came in the first 10% of the play. Lady Butterfly took me five to 10 tries. I trashed everyone else -
Spoiler
Gyubou, Genichiro, Ape, True Monk, Ape 2.0, Great Shinobi Owl, Father Owl, DOH, and Sword Saint
all took one try.
Spoiler
False Monk and Divine Dragon
killed me once each:D I died a few times to a couple of the mini bosses though. Usually ninjas in small rooms. I didn't even need res on DOH of all bosses. I spanked him.

Also blood smoke - why did I neglect you before? I abused it this run. It's really good.

I had fun killing the Red Guard leader. I
Spoiler
used puppeteer on the flame cannon soldier
and we went to town on him. Was interesting because I never got the spear - it's still in the offering box.

God I do love this game. Today is shitty, might be a good day to do a quick Shura run.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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I started up a DS3 run. Grabbed the Uchigatana early and going to work.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

unforgivable weeb scum

go crywank into your body pillow!!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

As I do not have a body pillow you will have to buy me one to complete this task. I'll just assume you know the websites that sell them.

So, uh, the bosses in this game. They still ain't shit. Just aggro'ing tf out of them.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Hahah yeah and oddly enough the company director is listed as a mister S. Floggerboss !? why would that be :wink:

Re: the bosses, I'd love to see said aggro approach vs the Pontiff.
Mainly cause he gave me trouble on my blind run.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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yo Fux I'm messing around trying to do DS1 deathless + no summons

Quelaag and Gargs are dead, but all I've got is a reinforced club+5.
I don't fancy taking on Capra.
BKS and BKH didn't drop. hm.

Gravelord Sword? What would you guys do ?

Edit:

Yo done it, I've beaten DS1 without dying.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Blinge wrote:
Re: the bosses, I'd love to see said aggro approach vs the Pontiff.
Mainly cause he gave me trouble on my blind run.
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Dodge fucking all shit phase 1, shred with katana cutz. Phase 2 is at least interesting with the clone.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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so you dodge and then attack?

i like to press buttons and then other buttons and that's how to beat the video game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Seems like maybe u 4got 2 dodge m8. His attack patterns are funky but once you figure them out it's easy to not get hit at all in the first phase.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

To clarify- I wasn’t disbelieving you, i just don’t see how dodging massive combo patterns, waiting for an opening then finally punishing is ‘aggro’

I wasn’t trying to dick wave either so put yours away please.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Yeah idk, I basically stayed on his ass the whole time. If you stay close you can get away with pretty minimal dodging to get in max punishment. I felt like I was hitting R1 more than O but maybe it was close to even. There is one move in his repertoire where you have to make sure to close the distance again.

Aldrich it was even more key to get up in his shit I think. If you sit back he will just do wanky shit like that purple beam. If you run in on him as soon as he comes up out of the ground you don't have to deal with that. You can even make the arrows just miss that way, just get behind him for the lulz.

Sorry, not my intention. It's not like I didn't die on the Sulyhavn fight lol.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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So on my blind play I felt like the second form was easier :shock:

Eventually I opted to just block his combos in the first form. For the most part any ol' 100% shield will mean you don't get hit.

I really haven't PLUMBED DS3's depths anywhere near the other games.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Blinge wrote:
I really haven't PLUMBED DS3's depths anywhere near the other games.
It really is Souls on easy mode in a lot of ways. The progression is almost completely linear and unlike DS1 in particular it would be hard to miss how to move forward. Then you have the fact that you can regenerate Estus Flask uses. Various enemies are nerfed. One of the biggest (and welcomed) examples is the Skeleton Wheel. Those things are real ass mfers in DS1, not even an annoyance in DS3. I could go on but I think I made the point.

I almost feel like this is the best or worst one, depending on your view points.

Maybe it depends on your playstyle and approach since I remember Squire saying they found DS1 easier than DS3. I do like DS1 a lot more, but DS3 is still a good game and something I'd rather play than 99% of other modern games.

I'm really excited to see how From builds on things in Elden Ring.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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DS1 is absolutely easier than DS3 imo. for all the reasons Squire mentions, quite a brilliant post really.

I'll concede that 3's systems are more accessible for newbs but that's it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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I felt like DS3 was DS1 in inverse, with really tough random enemies but cakewalk bosses. I massively preferred this to DS1's more straightforward enemies and BIG difficulty spike bosses. DS1 definitely has a more compelling and interconnected world though. I kind of want to play DS1 again but not so much DS3.

I beat a lot of the bosses first time by rolling almost directly in to them and using the light attack button (rarely used the heavy attack button). Beat the pontiff first time on my blind playthrough like this; I found the little versions of him wondering around the town much harder! DS3 is definitely favours balls to the wall offense so I can see it being harder if you favour a different playstyle.

Got distracted during KF4 playthrough by other hobbies. Hope to get back in to it soon. Having so much free time is pretty daunting!
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Blinge wrote:DS1 is absolutely easier than DS3 imo. for all the reasons Squire mentions, quite a brilliant post really.

I'll concede that 3's systems are more accessible for newbs but that's it.
Yeah it was a real good post, had to reference it even if my own experience is different. The game world in DS1 is perhaps the best I've seen and I agreed with their takeaway on that.

I might feel different if I played them back to back but I feel like I've died a lot more in the first one. Could just be that I've improved at this kind of game in general. I'm just not having the trouble with bosses that I see posted around the internet. Sekiro was a lot harder than this imo.
MX7 wrote: I beat a lot of the bosses first time by rolling almost directly in to them and using the light attack button (rarely used the heavy attack button). Beat the pontiff first time on my blind playthrough like this; I found the little versions of him wondering around the town much harder! DS3 is definitely favours balls to the wall offense so I can see it being harder if you favour a different playstyle.
Yeah agree with this in general. The Carthus Swordsman/Gravewarden Skeleton killed me more than I'd care to admit. I mostly just used arrows like a bitch on Elder Ghru. Did kill some number in close combat but it never felt great. Had a tougher time with Sulyvahn's Beasts than Sulyhavn. Overall just not dying much however. I did finally give in and put stats into VIG and VIT. Before Sulyhavn I was on starting stats for those. He was just a bit too much for my pleb self. Having SOME damage absorption is kinda nice.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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MX7 wrote:I felt like DS3 was DS1 in inverse, with really tough random enemies but cakewalk bosses. I massively preferred this to DS1's more straightforward enemies and BIG difficulty spike bosses.
Think about this. The undead burg, early game DS1. Lets assume you don't know the game and aren't fucking around wth the master key. The hollows here are designed to mob you, There's shield dudes that turtle up and absolutely fuck people who don't know about guard breaking. There's these guys placed within bow range of other enemies, and sometimes mixed with sword dudes.

Taurus is kind of a cakewalk compared to that, and cheesable with plunge attacks.
There isn't a jump up in difficulty with bosses as you seem to believe.

Mx7, how many times did you play through DS1 and when was the last time? Your posts confound me so much I wonder whether you're drawing on years old memories of the game.

I talk a bit about bosses vs the stages. I don't want to go into detail on every single boss but god help me, I will if needs be LOL.
Spoiler
O&S, Centipede, Capra, Bed of Chaos are the only examples of the boss being a significant step up in difficulty from the stage.
( oh and every DLC boss )
Also O&S follow up those Silver Knights with the spears.. who are a pain in the ass.
They also follow up the infamous archer section.. so I wouldn't even consider O&S that much of a step up.
I beat a lot of the bosses first time by rolling almost directly in to them and using the light attack button (rarely used the heavy attack button). Beat the pontiff first time on my blind playthrough like this;
Yeah so this may sound like an insult but i genuinely believe you got lucky.

Yeah SteamFlog sulyvahn's beasts are fucking annoying because it's hard to tell what they're actually doing with those animations.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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At the risk of being obnoxious I'm just gonna go ahead and quote Squire again because literally no counterargument stands against his combo strings point, which I feel is basically just objective.
Squire Grooktook wrote: So first off: I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say that Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne are easier than this game. My replay made me feel in fact that if anything, From went overboard with the enemy/boss aggression after DS1. The enemy patterns and attacks in this game are all fairly straight forward, easily exploited with just about any build, and satisfying to learn. A far cry from the fucking "9+ randomized combo strings" that you see in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, and that come to a ....Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but I honestly find many of the bosses in Ds3 to be total slogs that make me not want to replay the damn thing.
I don't think someone's memories of back when they played 1 before the others when they were new to the series make for reliable experiences for making observations. I'd rather look at the games from a perspective of replaying them after having played the whole series. For this reason I'd place a lot more weight to the opinions of say, Necronopticus.

If we go with memories of first playthrough only, then DeS is the hardest soulsgame for me. Even though, it is in fact, the easiest :lol:
sorry to present my opinions as objective facts but i wanted to make a punchy point lel


edit: fucking hell blinge it's a video game.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Blinge wrote:
MX7 wrote:I felt like DS3 was DS1 in inverse, with really tough random enemies but cakewalk bosses. I massively preferred this to DS1's more straightforward enemies and BIG difficulty spike bosses.
Think about this. The undead burg, early game DS1. Lets assume you don't know the game and aren't fucking around wth the master key. The hollows here are designed to mob you, There's shield dudes that turtle up and absolutely fuck people who don't know about guard breaking. There's these guys placed within bow range of other enemies, and sometimes mixed with sword dudes.

Taurus is kind of a cakewalk compared to that, and cheesable with plunge attacks.
There isn't a jump up in difficulty with bosses as you seem to believe.

Mx7, how many times did you play through DS1 and when was the last time? Your posts confound me so much I wonder whether you're drawing on years old memories of the game.

I talk a bit about bosses vs the stages. I don't want to go into detail on every single boss but god help me, I will if needs be LOL.
Spoiler
O&S, Centipede, Capra, Bed of Chaos are the only examples of the boss being a significant step up in difficulty from the stage.
( oh and every DLC boss )
Also O&S follow up those Silver Knights with the spears.. who are a pain in the ass.
They also follow up the infamous archer section.. so I wouldn't even consider O&S that much of a step up.
Yeah SteamFlog sulyvahn's beasts are fucking annoying because it's hard to tell what they're actually doing with those animations.
Yeah I do disagree with the boss difficulty spike in the first game bit. There is quite a bit of that feeling of dungeon crawling dread and regular enemies can wreck you.

Honestly the O&S fight isn't even that bad.

Yep. They also cover a ton of ground. I found it hard af to be able to even get safe enough to do a heal. They attack again QUICKLY. Lil shits.
Blinge wrote:At the risk of being obnoxious I'm just gonna go ahead and quote Squire again because literally no counterargument stands against his combo strings point, which I feel is basically just objective.
Squire Grooktook wrote: So first off: I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say that Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne are easier than this game. My replay made me feel in fact that if anything, From went overboard with the enemy/boss aggression after DS1. The enemy patterns and attacks in this game are all fairly straight forward, easily exploited with just about any build, and satisfying to learn. A far cry from the fucking "9+ randomized combo strings" that you see in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, and that come to a ....Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but I honestly find many of the bosses in Ds3 to be total slogs that make me not want to replay the damn thing.
I don't think someone's memories of back when they played 1 before the others when they were new to the series make for reliable experiences for making observations. I'd rather look at the games from a perspective of replaying them after having played the whole series. For this reason I'd place a lot more weight to the opinions of say, Necronopticus.

If we go with memories of first playthrough only, then DeS is the hardest soulsgame for me. Even though, it is in fact, the easiest :lol:
sorry to present my opinions as objective facts but i wanted to make a punchy point lel
I mean Squire is right about the combo strings part. That's definitely correct. I didn't experience the same slog being described though. I've been rushing in on bosses to good success. Worth noting I've been SWITCHING WEAPONS as needed. To exploit weaknesses as well as for attack patterns. IE using a weapon with a wide horizontal attack arc for the deacons fight, biggest damage possible with a big sword buffed to smash Wolnir's bracelets quickly (this is a suuuuper fast fight if you do this) etc etc So this is probably not something that happens in runs looking to play really quickly (since you have to buff those weapons enough to be more functional) or with one weapon for style.

I played Dark Souls again within the last couple years but it never hurts to play it again. From playing them in fairly short succession I think DS1 is tougher overall. At least you know I'm right about how fucking esoteric DS1 is. ;)

I've played all of them at least twice for the record with DS2 being the low mark at twice.

Didn't mean to start a big debate on this though lol.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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I think trying to present something like how difficult we find a videogame as being objective is a little silly. I am not trying to present an argument, just simply stating how I found the respective difficulties of these two games. One thing that is objective, however, is that I, MX7, found DS3 significantly easier than DS1. I have only played DS3 once, and I have played DS1 all the way through once and have a made few abortive playthroughs, the most recent being after I played DS3. I posit the reason for my experience varying is that I play these games differently than others, meaning I find some bits easier and some bits harder. I play aggressively and impatiently, which seems to be rewarded in DS3. Similar story in Bloodbourne. I found the Taurus Demon much harder than that which preceded it. It's a horrible first boss! I also find the Capra Demon (is this the one with the two dogs?) easier, as it's a more aggressive and abrupt fight.

Personally, one of the reasons I love this series so much is its granularity allows for lots of different experiences. I can fully believe that some people may find DS3 harder than DS1, even it it doesn't conform to my own experience :) As a further example, I find DoDonpachi Daioujou SIGNIFICANTLY easier than Ketsui, even though I have spent a similar amount of time on both, and Ketsui has two fixed extends and seemingly more bluffable patterns. The only explanation I can think of for this is that the patterns in DOJ suit my playstyle more. When cycling, I go up a few gears when climbing a hill even though everyone I ride with thinks I'm insane. I just find it easier. Mileages vary in every pursuit!

I teach media studies, and part of that involves analysing videogames. One of the games I elect to teach is Dark Souls 3, as it's it's interesting from a variety of perspectives. After bigging it up and discussing the marketing campaign, I had a student who only played FIFA play it. Usually what happens is students die over and over on the first boss, then I take the pad and mash the dodge button and win everyone's respect for another year. But this student SMASHED through it on a blind playthrough, mincing the first boss, and then the whole of the first section (right before the dog thing in the church). Maybe he was lucky, but it cemented for me the game is about bold and aggressive attacks, and there's lots of leniency for clumsy play as long as you are aggressive and roll like a bastard.

As for my own playthrough, maybe I did get lucky. Lots of times. Lots and lots of times ;)
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Re: From Software 'n such

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there's lots of leniency for clumsy play as long as you are aggressive and roll like a bastard.
Dude like, people do actually play Dark Souls here. Why state the obvious?

Oh yeah, well one thing is for certain. I, Blinge, found Ass Creed 2 more difficult than Dark Souls.

Now I'm gonna give loads of anecdotal evidence to back up what i'm saying, but it's not presenting an argument, guize!
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Re: From Software 'n such

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You alright, mate?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Blinge wrote:
there's lots of leniency for clumsy play as long as you are aggressive and roll like a bastard.
Dude like, people do actually play Dark Souls here. Why state the obvious?

Oh yeah, well one thing is for certain. I, Blinge, found Ass Creed 2 more difficult than Dark Souls.

Now I'm gonna give loads of anecdotal evidence to back up what i'm saying, but it's not presenting an argument, guize!
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Oh no Blingey. The point of being aggressive is not an unfair one. You can afford to be more plodding and cautious/deliberate in DS1 I feel. Bosses in DS3 tend to punish that kind of behavior.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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[post snipped to remove autism]

Eh yknow.. I haven't ever tried to be anything but aggressive in DS3.
Like, it's always been two hand big sword and roll around.

Other than that time I went through NG+2 for the last of the trophies using a Greatshield and Greatlance, blocking everything and reeeeally trying not to roll ever. Had to roll for soul of cinder.
MX7 wrote:You alright, mate?
I invite you both to go back and play 1 with the camera unlocked and the same aggro behaviour. You might see what I mean, i dunno.


yeah i'm gonna like, try not to talk about souls for a while.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Stevens »

MORE SEKIRO DAMMIT.

Aww either way I love you guys.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Well, woke up at half 6 because of someone elses fucking alarm and could only think about this thread. So i might be quite literally mental, but it's time to 180, sit and argue about videogames again. Will try not to attack people's personal experience and ignore tales of MX7 impressing a crowd of jocks :lol:
My workmate has me in her phone as "hater 180"
Oddly enough none of the screaming bitches have arrived to succ me for beating DS1 deathless yet. I guess it's hard to get here during lockdown.
As before, I'm talking about the difficulty of combat only, not the world or obtuse mechanics.
MX7 wrote:I found the Taurus Demon much harder than that which preceded it
I struggle to imagine a world in which this can be true. Steamflogger's laugh gif reacts fit here way more than they do for Pontiff, but no matter, I'm trying to be nice now lmao.
I dunno, roll backwards. I always facefuck him while mashing out attacks and try to roll to his back but sometimes he has janky hitboxes up close, i'll give you that.
MX7 wrote:I also find the Capra Demon (is this the one with the two dogs?) easier, as it's a more aggressive and abrupt fight.
D33p dive on Capra Demon:
Spoiler
Oh, dear me, I forget, is this the one with the two dogs? :lol:
Possible arguing semantics here, i don't think it's particularly illuminating to call the fight 'aggressive.' You either kill a dog before Capra's opening swing gets you, which i think is a gamble. Or you manage to get around the dogs to the safety of more open space behind, or the stairs. Allowing you to take the dogs out.
I mean, the boss sure is aggressive.. usually coming forward with a jump swing while the dogs rush forward to put you into stun.
Someone once wrote on here that the Capra Demon fight is decided in the first few seconds, which still holds true.

So what, you mash out an attack and get lucky enough to kill a dog early. That's aggressive, I guess. One swing.
Or you evade for a better position. Not aggressive.

Capra is actually trivialised by having like, any poise. Poise = dogs won't stun, you can get through the first few seconds. The wolf ring is available to every player, easily obtainable in Darkroot. any "impatient" player with no armour can do this.
For what it's worth I always fastroll but would throw on some armour just for Capra.

When the dogs are dead, Capra is completely nonthreatening. Slow swings, a jump, a 3 hit combo. You might have to roll literally one attack to counter. You probably only need to walk backwards to outspace most of his shit. *coughunlikeanyofthetoughbossesinds3*
Jesus don't make me deep dive the moveset of every fight in DS1 cause I swear to christ I'll do it.
Steam wrote:Worth noting I've been SWITCHING WEAPONS as needed.
Way too much time and souls investment to upgrade various weapons, no?
Unless no grinding is required, truly.

**
I'm in a sporting mood with too much time on my hands (you may have guessed)

So MX7 what was your build and weapon set when you demolished DS3 first time? Also, is this including DLC?

Once I've dug out the Ps4 I'm going to play through it in your shoes.
Also a list of the bosses you beat first time would be of interest.

Looking back on my own subjective experience of DS3, I blazed through it wayyy more than I did DS1, because I'd been through every other game. A boss killing me more than twice was a surprise moment, and perhaps a bit of a shock considering at this point I just expected to be effective throughout. Outer wall/ the first area loool fucked me up way more than anywhere else cause I had my cool glasses on 8) , thinking I can just sleepwalk everything. Or maybe it was because I played as deprived idk.

**


To conclude.. (and repeat what I say all the time)

This can be fixed with a slice of Occam's Razor+10

Most people will remember their first souls as the hardest.

I'm way more interested in breaking the games down and talking about what they ask of the player.

Just compare Iudex Gundyr vs Asylum Demon ffs :!:
One of those bosses lets you just walk round to its arse after a plunge attack and wail. A massive blind spot.
microcosm of the differences between games tbh
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

I didn't get hit by Iudex Gundyr. CLEARLY THIS IS BECAUSE yeah okay it's probably because I'm better at this genre now.

I forgot how stupid the Dancer is. 99999 move attack sequence in the second phase. :roll:

@Blingey: My playthroughs are usually very casual and I don't care how much time I am taking especially now. That said I did get a Black Knight Sword to level 5 last night so I'm guessing that will be my weapon for awhile. Not sure if I like DS3 enough to try specific badass things all game like Bloodborne.

Fuck it all I'm playing DS1 again after this. Maybe I can improve on my million hour time from last run. Nowhere to go but up!
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Steamflogger Boss wrote:I forgot how stupid the Dancer is. 99999 move attack sequence in the second phase. :roll:
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:mrgreen:
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Stevens »

Blinge wrote:

Most people will remember their first souls as the hardest.

I'm way more interested in breaking the games down and talking about what they ask of the player.
I was going to write a long response to this about the who, what, when to all my Souls experiences, but I can basically sum it up in one sentence:

I died more to the bosses in Sekiro on NG then Dark Souls or Bloodborne (DLC included). No joke. A lot more. Sword Saint took my around 50 tries, Butterfly 30 - 40, Ape close to 30. I think Sekiro is the hardest of the bunch.

Also found this gem from a few months ago, please note the bolded part:

"Also going to start Bloodborne this weekend. I don't love the souls games as much as others here, but I did really enjoy my first play through of Dark Souls. The second play through I went as far as beating Ornstein and Smough and then had enough. Once I knew the layout the magic was kind of gone for me. The money is on that initial blind play through."
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Stevens
Posts: 3805
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 11:44 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Stevens »

I decided to start another character in Bloodborne.

My first was bl 272.Basically maxed Vit and Ski, with 75 Bt and another few points in arc to play with a few items. Discovered though I don't really have any use for all the B t and was thinking maybe it would be easier to find co op if I just maxed Vit and Ski.

Ugh gonna have to chalice dungeon again. Maybe I'll just farm the lanterns in the hamlet for gems..

I'm tearing through the game. I just beat VA without getting hit!
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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