From Software 'n such

[Immryr]

Nice! I'm guessing you're playing the US King's Field, aka King's Field 2 JP?

If so it's one of my favourite From Soft games, i just got so sucked into trying to piece the world together. I'd love to hear more impressions as you play. You're in for a treat.

[Necronopticous]

I got a CIB copy of the North American long box release for PS1, so I guess I'm technically starting at the second entry in the series. I have NA King's Field II on the way as well. I haven't pulled the trigger on the PS2 game since it seemed significantly rarer/more expensive based on the eBay listings I saw.

Like I said, my very first impression was not great. First, I looked at the back of the box to see how many blocks I needed to clear off of my memory card to save my game and the icon straight up says "15 Blocks" which was unbelievable to me. I thought Vagrant Story was demanding with its 3 block requirement! I have since read that it only actually takes 2 blocks per save file, but just initial thing made me very wary of what I was getting myself into. The bizarre choice of having a weird looking 2D pixel guy walk out and slash the "Now Loading" text didn't exactly ease my mind. The mid '90s were a weird time.

I fell off the island 3 times within the first 10 seconds of gameplay, and got whacked by the kraken in maybe 30 seconds of gameplay on my fourth attempt. It took me nearly 2 hours of wrestling with the controls to find the first healing pond & save point.

During this first session I noticed that the game speeds way up when you're in certain places with very few assets loaded which was a painful realization that the nigh-unbearably sluggish movement was, at its core, a technical problem, or at least heavily exacerbated by one. I suspect very few people would have the patience for manipulating the player character in this game these days. It feels like wading through molasses at all times, and I find myself pressing so hard on the d-pad trying to turn around or circle an enemy that blisters seem like an inevitability.

That said...you do sorta get used to it, and once I had access to a save point & source of healing I felt a lot more comfortable with beginning to actually make progress with leveling, gearing, and exploration. I never found any of the early game weapons that are scattered about (I have since found them and kicked myself) so I used that damned dagger until I found the first merchant hours later and bought the knight sword.

Things have been pretty smooth since then, and I'm enjoying the exploration a lot. A big missing piece of the puzzle for me was finding Meryl who can appraise & describe items, something I previously worried was just completely missing from the game. In fact, if I didn't have the manual I would have probably just assumed all the item descriptions were in there and I was missing out.

I lost a bit of progress last night, but I just recently placed the second dragon stone and have gained the ability to bottle gold potions which is huge. I ignorantly used the first one to unlock the green sluice gate rather than the much more useful red one, so I had to avoid using spells for a very long time. Next on the agenda is exploring the mine cart section of the rhombus key barracks and re-exploring some of the cave network accessed by that. I had found a key that I suspect opens up the inner part of the keep across the lava moat, but I fell to my death after finding it last night and hadn't saved.

[Blinge]

That's massive progress holy hell!
Yeah it is cool how the beginning of KF games revolves around establishing your foothold in the game, clearing out that first little base of operations to set out from later.

[Necronopticous]

Oh yeah also I found myself in the game.

[Blinge]

I daresay you'll find yourself again.

[Immryr]

I'm in there too:

https://imgur.com/a/R1zC3fF

honestly i don't know how mortificator didn't see the similarities between king's field 2 and dark souls 1. they both use the same gameplay lead storytelling style of just giving you some background on the world then dropping you in it to piece together the world and the story by exploring and talking to a few gloomy, cryptic npcs. of course the mechanics are very different....

I guess what they share most is a feeling of being lost and quite a particular gloominess, rather than anything mechanical or more tangible.

[Obiwanshinobi]

uhh nioh, MGS5, everything by platinum.... uhh..... others.

you should probably just have your own thread for random questions and pointless points.

Everything after Vanquish?

[Immryr]

Oh, I guess I assumed when you asked about the latest games I assumed you, at the very least, were talking about games on the current generation hardware rather than games which came out almost a decade ago............................

[Sumez]

I got a CIB copy of the North American long box release for PS1, so I guess I'm technically starting at the second entry in the series. I have NA King's Field II on the way as well. I haven't pulled the trigger on the PS2 game since it seemed significantly rarer/more expensive based on the eBay listings I saw.

Weird, the PS2 game was the only one I have, due to it in fact being the cheapest. Or I guess it was at the point.
I just shelled out $80 for King's Field "1" (US) though, so it's definitely not cheap.

[Necronopticous]

I managed to score it for just $50. The box has a broken hinge, but is in otherwise good condition. King’s Field II was about the same. I saw fewer listings for the PS2 game and they looked to be closer to $80ish for comparable condition copies.

[Sumez]

Yeah, $50 is what it was listed for, the rest was shipping and taxes. But European copies are listed higher than those costs added up, and for a game that's already notorious for being slow, I'm not taking the 50hz risk (if most of it is actually due to slowdown, the European version might be faster overall, but I wouldn't bet on it)

[Necronopticous]

And...done! Now that I have beaten the game I’ve started to look up a bit of info on stuff that I missed and boy did I miss a ton! I had no idea sword magic was even a thing, and I didn’t realize I could save Gigi’s father. I’m tempted to play through again and 100% everything but it’s hard to even find good info online and I’m not sure I have the patience to catalog everything myself.

I really ended up enjoying this a lot more than I anticipated. The next one is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow so I will probably start on that soon. Anyone have a complete copy of the PS2 version they’d be willing to part with?

[FinalBaton]

Hey Mr. Baton, hows that Demon Souls going? I liked hearing your thoughts.

I haven't gamed much since last update, sadly! couple hours each in the 2 weeks following my last update and in the last 2-3 I haven't gamed at all. Really tired from work and pretty much all my focus and hobby time goes toward my metal band.

But I did reach Armored Spider and slay his big butt.

I also advanced in the archstone of the Tower Queen quite a bit (previously hadn't played it at all). Very cool environment, too. Very Lovecraftian, with the squid headed servants/mind flayers and insane people in there. Some guy ran towards me, howling, while holding his head. and he didn't even attack me, he just stood there, holding his head. That was pretty effective in creeping me out. Very dark and moody level, kinda plays a bit like a more traditional horror-style game. adds to the variety

I also reached deeper in the Valley of Defilement, and reached the first boss. Ehhhhhh, this is fucking gross I felt SO. DAMN. POWERLESS. covered by these things, getting the blood sucked out of me. How is your full plate armor working out for ya buddy That feeling was actually pretty awesome to experience. That moment between getting covered by them and dying, for those few seconds I was downright panicking. Since it's a pretty long trek down there, you REALLY don't want to die, ya know? I was flipping out. these intense feels, wrecking my pour soul... -_-
*please don't tell me how to shake this off people, I wanna find on my own If I ever give up on finding, I'll ask here*

I also advanced some in the archstone of the Shadowmen.

[Square_Air]

I still have lots of leftover PVE challenges left like an SL1 run I never got around to doing.

This came a lot sooner than expected. Last week I just kinda felt like starting an SL1 run to test the waters, and today I just finished the main game + DLC solo on SL1. Not exactly my favourite way to play the game, but it had some interesting points to it, and it gave me a lot more insight into how to play DS1 efficiently. Pyromancy. Lots and lots of pyromancy, and a vast collection of Reinforced Clubs. I had never tried pyromancy, so it was a little startling to rip through some bosses faster than I ever have before, even at SL1. Most of the game went smoothly with only a few real hurdles to overcome.

The only part that really surprised me was the Demon Fire Sage. I ran into this boss arena thinking "Firesage is a 3rd rate re-skin that's always been basic, this is going to be a 20 second execution, EZ PZ", and then it proceeded to kill me at least 10 times and become the second hardest fight in the run, and the first of two bosses that I struggled with. The shape of the arena is the true culprit here, as it makes circling Firesage more difficult. That jumping strike also has fiendishly long range, catching your rolls & punishing your heals from the other side of the universe. That AOE is also quite threatening now that it eats 80% of your life. Evading the AOE isn't too bad, but the fact it can just spam it repeatedly at the worst times and then kill you with the Mr. Fantastic follow up strike is rough.

While I had a smooth main game (besides Demon Firesage and everyone's favourite shithead, The Bed Of Chaos), the section that I figured would give me the most trouble was the DLC, and it somewhat delivered. I had a single death on Artorias, but then pulled myself together and got him the second time around. Kalameet killed me a few times, and had a lot of HP to deal with, but keeping him near the waterfall makes this fight more manageable since he spams that really punishable sweeping flame attack much more. They can both do tons of damage and OHKO you, so they're still not pushovers by any means. Oolacile township was a tricky stage section almost solely because of the Bloathead sorcerers being hard to dodge when they're paired together.

At the beginning of the run I decided I was going to avoid the really silly boss cheese (like throwing firebombs over the fog gate at Capra or sniping Quelaag from safety), so I elected to not just snipe Manus from outside the fog gate like a wiener and actually fight him. Now I have an intricate understanding of why SL1 guides tell you not to fight him at all and just take the safest route. He's an asshole with a wonderful variety of ways to OHKO you and screw you over with the RNG. This took me over 20 attempts, and I had to change my weapon and attuned pyromancies part way through to better deal with him. I also had the displeasure of trying to use the silver pendent to reflect the dark magic, which you shouldn't ever use because it's bad. You're way better off just rolling to the side of the forward spray, doing a few backflips during the air barrage, and being at full HP when he does the circle since since it's hard to consistently roll through this unless you use the DWGR. This is a silly fight on SL1 because of his unprecedented pressure, good DPS, huge movepool, giant hitboxes, highest HP stat in the game, and the RNG makes consistency much harder to achieve than on any other boss in the game. It was pretty satisfying when I finally took this guy down.

I died a few times at Gwyn since I've never learned his parry timing, but I picked it up pretty soon, and he drops really fast to Hornet Ring & Chaos Reinforced Club +5 ripostes. The only boss I didn't fight was Centipede, because Centipede is stupid and I just never felt like dealing with it.

[Sumez]

Isn't Centipede a mandatory fight?

[Square_Air]

Isn't Centipede a mandatory fight?

Nope, not if you use the shortcut via the Chaos Servant covenant. It's the same shortcut that lets you save Solaire.

I would estimate that Centipede is probably between Manus and Firesage in difficulty, but closer to Firesage. I just hate the idea of SL1 Centipede and figured that being jumped on for an hour straight wasn't how I wanted to spend my time. I thought about going back for the kill, but I just wanted to move on by the time I was finished with The Bed Of Chaos.

He might actually be easier than the DLC bosses if you go full Havels with a lightening Reinforced Club, but I can only guess. Has anyone here fought SL1 Centipede and have some input?

[Bananamatic]

I don't remember shit about SL1 centipede
just run away from the jumps and bait the long range arm attack over and over?

being at full HP when he does the circle since since it's hard to consistently roll through this unless you use the DWGR.

if you run towards him it does no damage
yes it's kinda dumb because you can't see how exactly that attack works but there's a safe spot right in front of him (or in the middle of where it's aimed at?)
manus isn't that bad once you realize his physicals are bullshit up close (way too fast and lingering hitboxes) so just dodge away from him at all costs until he does something punishable like the arm smash or dark magic

The only part that really surprised me was the Demon Fire Sage. I ran into this boss arena thinking "Firesage is a 3rd rate re-skin that's always been basic, this is going to be a 20 second execution, EZ PZ", and then it proceeded to kill me at least 10 times and become the second hardest fight in the run, and the first of two bosses that I struggled with. The shape of the arena is the true culprit here, as it makes circling Firesage more difficult. That jumping strike also has fiendishly long range, catching your roles & punishing your heals from the other side of the universe. That AOE is also quite threatening now that it eats 80% of your life. Evading the AOE isn't too bad, but the fact it can just spam it repeatedly at the worst times and then kill you with the Mr. Fantastic follow up strike is rough.

90% of the fight is getting up close to him, then all you have to do is either run backwards if he uses the body slam or run away way behind him if he uses the aoe (then run back in again), he's absolutely useless up close

[Necronopticous]

I'm working on finishing up a 100% achievement & collection run with an SL1 character on the Dark Souls remaster, myself. I took a break for King's Field, but I did go back to it for a bit last night to finish off the rank 1 covenant miracles for Prayer of a Maiden, and finished off my final 2 weapon infusions which had to wait for NG+. All that's left is Knight's Honor (of course) which requires a few more boss souls in NG+, and then a mad dash to one last Sif's soul -> Giant Blacksmith in NG++. SL1 4 Kings was a pretty brutal fight in NG+, but after my thief class challenge run a couple years ago I have renewed perspective on the difficulty of self-imposed Dark Souls challenges.

Re: Centipede Demon,

You know, Centipede Demon is a crappy boss, but it's actually not too challenging at SL1 if you fight it in the larger area to the right of the entry door. The key is whacking the legs from behind with no lock on and running away to safety any time it makes a jump.

Here's the direct link to my Centipede Demon fight in the aforementioned class challenge. I fought him in the entryway here but, like I said, it's much easier in the larger area--just roll the lava patches (dark wood grain ring helps)

[Square_Air]

if you run towards him it does no damage
yes it's kinda dumb because you can't see how exactly that attack works but there's a safe spot right in front of him (or in the middle of where it's aimed at?)
manus isn't that bad once you realize his physicals are bullshit up close (way too fast and lingering hitboxes) so just dodge away from him at all costs until he does something punishable like the arm smash or dark magic

Yeah, I saw some posts online about that circle strat, I never really tried it though. I just backed up and to the left every time he charged up dark magic so I could always dodge the first 2 attacks. It would have been better to learn the wind up of the circle attack so I could react fast enough to deal with it consistently. Man though, those hitboxes really linger. I got knocked over multiple times by his elbow while it was basically stationary.

90% of the fight is getting up close to him, then all you have to do is either run backwards if he uses the body slam or run away way behind him if he uses the aoe (then run back in again), he's absolutely useless up close

In hindsight, baiting the butt slam and punishing it would have probably made this fight significantly more manageable.

You know, Centipede Demon is a crappy boss, but it's actually not too challenging at SL1 if you fight it in the larger area to the right of the entry door. The key is whacking the legs from behind with no lock on and running away to safety any time it makes a jump.

Here's the direct link to my Centipede Demon fight in the aforementioned class challenge. I fought him in the entryway here but, like I said, it's much easier in the larger area--just roll the lava patches (dark wood grain ring helps)

Ah, so it's not too bad with the right strats. Being able to bleed it is also helpful.

[Bananamatic]

90% of the fight is getting up close to him, then all you have to do is either run backwards if he uses the body slam or run away way behind him if he uses the aoe (then run back in again), he's absolutely useless up close

In hindsight, baiting the butt slam and punishing it would have probably made this fight significantly more manageable.

I'd argue the asylum demon has a more difficult to deal with moveset because his weapon is shorter
both stray and firesage would've been way harder as 1:1 palette swaps, I usually go for stray demon as a 3rd boss on any run because he's so damn easy to bleed out, the only difficult part is getting close

[Blinge]

Pft. that smack the wall AoE is everything tbh

[Necronopticous]

King's Field II (US) has arrived! Also, I finally found a reasonably priced complete copy of The Ancient City so I pulled the trigger on that, too! I'm also trying to snag a copy of Shadow Tower, but so far every decent looking listing I've seen on that has been well over $100 which is definitely beyond my psychological barrier for how much I should be spending on a PSX game. I guess I will wait and see on that.

While I was waiting for King's Field II, I started up a new file on King's Field to see how much I could do while remaining at level 1. The answer is: quite a lot! I pieced together a lot of triggers in my mind before I set out, and there were a few places where EXP gain seemed inevitable:

1. Killing a guard to get the Jail Key
2. Killing the Termite Queen to get the Pirate Key and rescue Sandler
3. Killing the Kraken to get the second Shrine Key

If you could somehow do all of these things there's nothing really stopping you from getting the best equipment in the game and all spells at level 1. Of course, you'd have to go through the boss gauntlet and beat the game which would level you up quite a bit if you actually wanted to clear the game, but I was less interested in that.

Anyway, I set out with these triggers in mind. Killing the guard for the Jail Key actually only nets 26 experience points which is not enough to push you to level 2, so no problem there. I managed to kill the Termite Queen at level 1 which took quite a bit of finesse even with the Knight Sword and a full set of armor picked up from around early Melanat. Unfortunately that takes you straight to level 5, so it seemed like that might be the big blocker since there's really not a whole lot else you can do without getting beyond Sandler's mother.

But, that's when I remembered the process for getting the Ruinous Boots & Crystal Flask behind Celffy Foss near the end of the game (nudging him with a dagger about 50 times until he's out of the way) and wondered if I could do the same with Sandler's mother. Well, it worked! With her out of the way I was able to make my way around Harvine's Castle and open the bridge to the east coast where the next big progression key can be had: the Figure of Seath. With this, I was able to trek back and get Harvine's Flute from the 3 flask trade with Fai (he wouldn't make the flask trade without first making the Figure of Seath trade, I tried) which pretty much opens up the rest of the game other than the Elf Shrine and Guyra's dimension.

I also never got the Pirate's Key which means I couldn't get the Skull Key, which means no second Dragon Stone for gold potions & Seath's Fountain shortcut unlock, which isn't really a huge deal. I would love to be able to get into the Elf Shrine, however. Doing so would allow you to get the Dark Slayer and most of Seath's armor set by extension. I was able to snag the first Shrine Key from inner Harvine's Castle after getting Harvine's Key from the big mine and the first two Water Crystals (would be a crap shoot getting in without resist fire) but the other Shrine Key is behind the kraken which seems impossible to score without huge EXP gain.

Not sure if there is a whole lot else I can do on this file, but I really enjoyed giving it a go. With the Souls games I always do a base level playthrough after my regular blind playthrough which has always provided me with an entirely new outlook and respect for each game's design, so I sorta wanted to see what that would look like in a Souls predecessor. It's not quite the same, but I was still able to do almost everything and I would recommend giving it a shot yourself if you're a fan & want a reason or new way to replay the game.

[Blinge]

I had been considering a speed run or replaying the whole series tbh.
So you met yourself in the game again right? ;]

You're a man after my own heart, necro.
(hereafter dubbed necron)

[Necronopticous]

See if you can figure out a way to save Sandler or get that second Shrine Key without gaining any levels!

[Blinge]

You have to kill the termite queen to save the brat right, that's Sandler? So unavoidable level? hmm. Dunno if i'm up for that much of a janky challenge just yet.
I remember watching a speedrun, i think the first thing killed is that Ice Golem boss and it takes AGES. That gives a ton of levels though.

I had wondered what the games would be like if you rely way more on magic and build that stat up enough for your class to change in the menu. Seems annoying AF though as you'd always be spending on MP items in the early game.

[Necronopticous]

I decided to get started on King's Field II yesterday. I had a lot of reservations going into the first game, so I didn't pay too much attention to the story/lore/dialogue until I got into it later on, but this time I was interested from the get-go. So, I brewed myself some coffee and started going through the manual which did a pretty good job of getting me excited to fire it up.

The whole manual is written like a preparatory letter to you as the protagonist, Lyle. I really enjoyed the opening letter, and the short back story which eventually ties in the events of the previous game. Overall I got a pretty serious tone from it. I continue to find it hilarious, by the way, that characters in the King's Field universe have these ultra mundane modern American names. I love that part of my mystic fantasy quest is to seek out a guy named Mark Johnson.

The introductory sequence of the game continues with the serious tone I picked up from the manual which is hilariously juxtaposed by one of the most ridiculous readings that I've ever heard. It sounds like a slightly drunk James Earl Jones impersonator doing a single take off of a cue card that he's reading as he goes so he can get out of there as soon as possible. You guys seriously have to watch it. It is incredible. The best moment is when Alex says "Peace!" as he blasts the castle. It's remarkable how good From would eventually get at this sort of thing. The intro readings in Demon's and Dark Souls are excellent.

More later...

[Blinge]

omg I'd forgotten about that

[Necronopticous]

So, some initial gameplay reactions: everything looks & feels a bit better.

The UI/menu overhaul is a clear improvement over the previous game. I'm very happy to see that we have basic item descriptions right away, and it looks like more detailed descriptions will come later at the hands of Mark Johnson. The NPC dialogue history is wild, and not at all the kind of feature I expected coming off the barebones UI of the past, especially since it's clearly not something that stuck around in the From playbook. I see that items now have a weight associated with them, and there is a storage option I haven't messed with yet. I assume there's some sort of encumbrance maximum, but I have yet to run into any indication that I need to manage that just yet.

The first thing that struck me about the actual gameplay is just how open that first area is. There wasn't really anything quite like that in the previous game. The second thing that struck me was how much more brutal that first area actually is. I felt pretty confident going in...arrogant even, having already "mastered" the mechanics that were sure to be mostly the same, but I still got my ass kicked and had to re-collect the same items multiple times until I found that first save point. First it was the insta-kill spear trap, then it was the obligatory skeleton guarding the leather shield, then the poisoned mushroom, then the poisoned treasure chest past the poisoned mushroom, then the skeleton in the treasure chest...I'm actually pretty sure I fell for every trap they laid out in the Quist field.

Speaking of the skeletons and mushrooms, I noticed very quickly that combat encounters are quite a bit more challenging/less exploitable this time around. Most enemies turn more quickly than you, so it's harder to just get behind them without faking them out (thumb blisters +1). They also don't seem to stagger on hit as reliably, especially when hit with weaker attacks, or physical attacks not made with full power. It goes beyond that, though. The placement of enemies has also been improved to create more difficult & interesting combat situations. This becomes especially clear a bit later on, but it's noticeable even in Quist.

[FinalBaton]

Hey Mr. Baton, hows that Demon Souls going? I liked hearing your thoughts.

I haven't gamed much since last update, sadly! couple hours each in the 2 weeks following my last update and in the last 2-3 I haven't gamed at all. Really tired from work and pretty much all my focus and hobby time goes toward my metal band.

But I did reach Armored Spider and slay his big butt.

I also advanced in the archstone of the Tower Queen quite a bit (previously hadn't played it at all). Very cool environment, too. Very Lovecraftian, with the squid headed servants/mind flayers and insane people in there. Some guy ran towards me, howling, while holding his head. and he didn't even attack me, he just stood there, holding his head. That was pretty effective in creeping me out. Very dark and moody level, kinda plays a bit like a more traditional horror-style game. adds to the variety

I also reached deeper in the Valley of Defilement, and reached the first boss. Ehhhhhh, this is fucking gross I felt SO. DAMN. POWERLESS. covered by these things, getting the blood sucked out of me. How is your full plate armor working out for ya buddy That feeling was actually pretty awesome to experience. That moment between getting covered by them and dying, for those few seconds I was downright panicking. Since it's a pretty long trek down there, you REALLY don't want to die, ya know? I was flipping out. these intense feels, wrecking my pour soul... -_-
*please don't tell me how to shake this off people, I wanna find on my own If I ever give up on finding, I'll ask here*

I also advanced some in the archstone of the Shadowmen.

BURINJU has NEVER acknowledged this. ^^^^^^

I AM SO ANGURY. and sad



Manly tears, are running down on my majestic yet intimidating facial bone structure.

Tears of retribution, tears of death...

[Blinge]

It was all my revenge for you calling unknown members of the forum eurocux for not liking vania bloodlines lmao..
I set you up!!!

Rly tho. I acknowledge it now soz.

Yeaah tower of Latria is DeS' big unique pull I think. Hm, maybe the Shadowmen archstone counts for that as well.
It's interesting that you found the spider relatively easy compared to Leechmonger, for me it was definitely the other way round.
Although full disclosure this was when I approached DeS as "people are saying this game is super hard, unbeatable" so I cheesed the spider with soul arrow from a safe spot against the left wall. Took bloody ages.

Spider fought properly with melee is real cool actually, the struggle to close the distance - and the fact you have to do this several times after it resets you.

Oh gosh my first build was absolute trash, stats spread evenly and ended up using Blueblood sword without dumping stats into luck.
A real pro.

my majestic yet intimidating facial bone structure.