From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

I bought the two "Miyazaki" Armored Core games some time ago. Supposedly they are pretty good, and a big shift from the earlier style of the series.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

all the armored core games i have played so far have been great. i've played, in order, for answer, 4, silent line and armored core 1. 4/fa are really different from the earlier games indeed. the fighting style is super fast, but the customisation is pretty similar. apparently the v/vd games are more similar to the earlier games combat wise, but i haven't got round to playing them yet.

honestly i imagine that all the armored core games are in the range of good-great. it seems like all of the ps1/ps2 games are pretty similar, and well worth playing if you're interested in this style of game at all.
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Zaarock
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Zaarock »

For Armored Core V and Verdict Day a lot of the content is multiplayer focused, such as 80% of the major bosses. I think in VD they're possible to take down alone if you program 3 AI mechs specifically for each fight but that's a pain. Verdict Day hardcore mode gives you selectable challenge parameters and a limited amount of lives to beat all campaign levels, great addition to the single player.

Some weapons might be useless in the campaign but good against other players (VD ended up having a decent balance).
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

evil_ash_xero wrote:I'll pop in time to time, and see if there's some news on Shadows Die Twice, or whatever.
So, like, is it March 2019 yet?
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

I see this thread bumped and hope there's more talk about Shadow Tower or King's Field, and then it's only about Sekiro :(

(I feel like I've already seen that game dissected enough from the Gamescom playable demo that I don't need anything else until its release)
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Necronopticous
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Necronopticous »

Sumez wrote:I see this thread bumped and hope there's more talk about Shadow Tower or King's Field, and then it's only about Sekiro :(
Hah! Well, Kuon is next on my list but it's going to be a little while before I get to that. I'm currently giving 110% to Dragon Quest XI, and I will probably play the Red Strings Club before I get back to my Fromsoft deep dive. The question is: how are you doing on King's Field IV?
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

I won't have any time to play any games the next two weeks, and the little I have is dedicated to Dragon Quest XI as well :\
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Necronopticous wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:I'll pop in time to time, and see if there's some news on Shadows Die Twice, or whatever.
So, like, is it March 2019 yet?
Well, it had a new trailer.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

what control scheme do people like on shadow tower abyss? the one where you use the right stick to attack feels weird, although quite innovative, but it also feels weird playing a king's field style game using both analogue sticks.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Immryr wrote:what control scheme do people like on shadow tower abyss? the one where you use the right stick to attack feels weird, although quite innovative, but it also feels weird playing a king's field style game using both analogue sticks.
Bleurrrghghg!

Sure as hell wasn't innovative in Monster Hunter (ps2) !!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

I use the dual analog with different buttons for horizontal/vertical swings.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

I really want to like the set up where you attack with the right stick, just cause it feels more like a king's field game to me moving with the dpad then looking up/down and strafing with the shoulder buttons. It's just too janky though.

I haven't played much of the game yet, just a little bit after the boat ride, but this game really does have an awesome and unique atmosphere. I think I'm going to leave it till I get freemcboot working to play more though as if there's too much going on onscreen my laptop shits the bed.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

jesus christ shadow tower abyss is hard. i just feel like im stumbling around in the dark. i've only found one save point after the hub-ish area, everywhere is poisonous, all my stuff is breaking, i can't make sense of the level design :I

it's terrifying
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

STA's difficulty curve is weird; it starts fairly hard, but mostly gets easier as it goes on. Having a feel for how to manage things really takes the edge off.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Zaarock wrote:For Armored Core V and Verdict Day a lot of the content is multiplayer focused, such as 80% of the major bosses.
Shit. and I assume online is dead?
To me that renders the game unplayable if I have to faff about specifically for each boss like that.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

Obscura wrote:STA's difficulty curve is weird; it starts fairly hard, but mostly gets easier as it goes on. Having a feel for how to manage things really takes the edge off.
i feel like that is generally how it goes in king's field games too.

shadow tower abyss though..... fucking hell. i'm seriously considering just dropping this game(for now). currently it just feels stupid. i have 3 melee weapons and a gun atm. the melee weapons break really quickly and cost health to repair and enemies respawn when you move about ten steps away from the area. to me, this just completely disincentivises exploration, which is the main thing i enjoy about king's field/souls/basically from video games in general. then the problem is you have to explore because the level design is really unintuitive, no where seems like 'the way to go'. so i'm left blindly heading in a direction for some time, finding 3 locked doors or something, then dying cause all of my weapons are fucked and i have no healing items. so then i try again in a different direction etc etc.

i've played so far for maybe 5 hours and i have one save in the hubish area with 35 mins of play, and one in the poison area - which feels like the only option left for me in terms of where i might be able to progress, but so far i haven't found much progression there.... - which has 49 mins of play saved.

it's absolutely insane.
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Try the insect area; it's the easiest choice for "first in-the-tower" area.

Also, be sure that when you repair gear, you repair a bunch of stuff and then do a heal at the end. Repairing only one item is really inefficient.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

hmm. in the insect area all i found was a room with a couple of items in, a couple of rooms with bugs then an invincible boss... hmm.... but i'll have a look tomorrow.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Couldn't play Dragon Quest XI yesterday, so I put a couple more hours into King's Field IV and damn this game is amazing.

There's so much depth and weight to the game world that's unlike anything else I have ever played, aside from maybe the Souls games. Playing this series really makes me question if it actually is Miyazaki we should thank for the existence of the Souls series, because a lot of these qualities started much earlier. In fact, KF4 almost feels more like Dark Souls than Demon's Souls did.

I just wish it weren't so slooooooooow. I don't think the game really gains anything from this. If only the run button would allow you to actually run like in KF2 and 3, that would have been a huge improvement.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

once i get my hdd set up on my ps2 king's field iv is the first game i will play.

i did go back and find what i had missed in the insect area in shadow tower abyss and made some progress through that area to the poison area, but once my replacement ps2 arrived i pretty much dropped the game to continue playing wizardry totfl. i will go back and play it at some point, but i don't think i will ever like the durability system.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Anyone get the vibe that From are getting like Capcom, right after RE first came out?

Like, you had RE...and then they kind of toyed with the formula. Dino Crisis, Onimusha, DMC....

Dark Souls gave birth to BB, and now Shadows Die Twice seems to take the action even further. Kind of like a mix of Blooborne and Onimusha.

I like seeing them rise from niche developer, to heavy hitter. Anyone else see the similarity?
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Capcom weren't a niche developer at all prior to RE, though, and they did all sorts of successful games even after RE. Also, even though DMC may have started life as Resi 4, it sure doesn't play anything like a Resident Evil game.

From is pretty much "that action RPG company" now.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Obscura wrote:Capcom weren't a niche developer at all prior to RE, though, and they did all sorts of successful games even after RE. Also, even though DMC may have started life as Resi 4, it sure doesn't play anything like a Resident Evil game.

From is pretty much "that action RPG company" now.
Obviously Capcom weren't niche. I'm just seeing the parallels where they stumbled upon a formula, and kind of made it their whole line.

DMC grew out of RE. It took a while for it to get to that point, but if there was no RE, there would be no DMC.

From probably won't go that far with action, but they are getting more action oriented. Shadows Die Twice is more of an adventure/action game, as it is supposed to not have RPG elements. I guess it's more like Zelda, or something. No stamina bar, either. And if you compare Dark Souls to the footage of SDT...well, you can see the emphasis on action is growing. The original Dark Souls you're kind of tanking around, with funky rolls. And in SDT you are hopping all over the place. You're at least a lot more mobile.
I wish them the best, as they kept my interest in games going, through some pretty dry times.
And I still think Bloodborne was the best game this gen. Especially with The Old Hunters DLC.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Obscura wrote:From is pretty much "that action RPG company" now.
From Software have never made a single game that I felt was even remotely "RPG" like.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

Except enchanted arms :D
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Except that!
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by __SKYe »

I totally glossed over the fact that there's a FromSoft thread, so I haven't posted anything here before, but finished King's Field 3 today and I thought it was a good time to do so, since it marks the end of the series on the PSX.

I cleared the first two games earlier this year, and I'm still pondering whether to continue with the company's catalog on the PSX (either Shadow Tower, or the first Armored Core) or to move on to the 4th game. Can you guys give me some thoughts on those PS titles? Is Shadow Tower as good/better than the King's Field games, and/or is Armored Core a decent game?

I'm a bit torn on which is my favourite out of these three games (KF1~3). Or out of the 2nd and the 3rd, but the 1st isn't that bad, aside from the lack of a run button.
KF3 is pretty awesome, with a more cohesive overworld and varied locations (at least compared to the previous games, especially the first), though the hit it takes on the speed/smoothness is pretty bumming. It's not so bad after you've been playing it for awhile, but if you try it after playing the 2nd, the difference is pretty noticeable.
I liked that in KF3 magic no longer stuns enemies, so the cheap Light Needle+Attack no longer works. That's not to say it doesn't suffer from some cheesiness, since powerful weapons will stun most foes, and later on, after you get the gear that nullifies the attack/magic stamina gauges post-sprint cooldown, you can run circles around enemies pretty easily. The scythe skeletons can be a pain, with the stun+dark magic, and the darkness stat last way too long (360 seconds, from what I've read).

Also, both last bosses can be somewhat cheesed as well:
Spoiler
Basically, once they have their back to you (assuming you are actually behind them, and not somewhat sideways) they have the tendency to walk away from you and to turn around only after they are a bit far away. These two bosses are different from the regular enemies, in that they seem to unnaturally rotate on the spot, instead of circling around like regular enemies do (presumably to make them tougher).
If you can follow them around closely from behind, they'll just continue to walk away from you until they're far away enough to turn. They walk slightly faster than you, and you can only keep their pace if you sprint occasionally, so normally the weapon/magic gauges cooldown period would prevent you from abusing this. But if you have the piece of gear that nullifies this period (I don't remember exactly which peace it is) you can pretty much follow them from behind consistently, while you keep slashing at them. This is made even easier by the fact that the location where you fight them is a sort of infinitely scrolling arena, so you'll never have to break stride because of walls, pillars, etc.
It may be possible to do this without the gear by doing very small sprints, ensuring that the stamina gauges don't empty completely, but I haven't tried it.
I accidentally discovered it against the penultimate boss, and it also worked on the TLB. It's particularly useful on the TLB, since, as usual, it has some very damaging area attacks, where you can't really dodge and have to soak the hits. Of course, you can carry plenty of healing supplies, but still (that's how I beat the first too games's final bosses too, so...).

It's a bit disappointing that there are really no bosses to speak of in KF3 aside from the last two (unless you count the big golem on the earth cave, and the dude who drops the Seath's Sword in the Royal Cemetery), while there were quite a few in KF2. Most of them were stronger, oversized regular enemies, but still.

Loved the Royal Cemetery at the end of KF3; a throwback to the very first area of the first game. It's simpler here (several exits are cut off) but it was pretty cool to see that the bastard, murderous skeleton at the very start of the first game, behind a secret wall, is still there. Only this time I was much stronger than him, so victory was mine. :lol:

What I didn't like as much, were one of the traps on the Death Corridor; the 3 spikes that appear from a wall when you search it (not the single stab spears that appear when you get close, those are cool). I died once there, simply because when searching a wall one of those appeared and stabbed me twice, killing me on the spot (there's also some of these on the small dungeon opposite a wall close to your house, at the very start of the game. Died there once too). Not too nice when the whole dungeon is riddle with secrets. All the other traps are nice, though; looking around for the switches to disable them was pretty fun.

It's been a pretty interesting ride, since I initially didn't really like the games at all. :o
It was a sort of Ys-type situation. After playing the first game for a while, I came to really enjoy the dark and dangerous mood of the game, and its very dangerous enemies and environmental hazards.
Nothing like getting killed by in 2~3 hits by the very first enemies you encounter, or in one shot by either the skeletons or the Kraken on the 2nd game. :)

Not really much else to say, and I'm sure most has already been said in the early pages, so I'll leave it at that.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Great post, Skye =]

I wasn't a huge fan of Shadow Tower, found it pretty jank, but still enjoyable enough to want to play till the end and beat it.
Think of it like KF with the comfort blankets (mostly) taken away and a garbage blocking mechanic added, in which your shield fills the whole screen and just isn't very useful.

Haven't had the balls to play any more Armored Core yet after FA rekt me so hard.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by __SKYe »

Thanks for the heads-up, I think I'll give both Shadow Tower and Armored Core a bit of playtime to see which is more appealing to me at the moment.

I'm not really big on mecha/robot stuff, which is one of the reasons I've postponed AC for so long, but if the gameplay's decent I'll go through it anyway. I never realized that the series had so many games in it, though. :o
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by __SKYe »

Tried both Armored Core and Shadow Tower, and decided to go with the latter for now.

Just played a couple missions in AC, and it does seem like a decent game, but I'm not that keen on playing it for know, so I'll take a rain check on it.

On Shadow Tower, I've played a bit more and just reached the Earth World (I think it's called that), though I'm still exploring the Human World more thoroughly. It's a pretty nice game, though it is both a step up and a step down from King's Field.
On the good side, the graphics look significantly better than even KF3, especially the monsters (the skeletons are awesome here, both in looks and behaviour), you can actually see the stats of your equipment, instead of having to equip/unequip to see what actually changed. I like the durability mechanic; though most equipment has somewhat low maximum DUR (weapons most importantly) and you usually get them with even less, there are a fair amount of them to be found, and the items to repair them are fairly plentiful as well. Can't speak of how it will be later in the game, but for now it seems to be working pretty well.
The map completion/discovery rate is also pretty neat, as you can finally tell whether you've explored an area fully or if there's something yet left to be discovered. The other rates (items/monsters/cunes) are also nice. The random voice clips (or more like random gibberish speech and little girl giggles) that play throughout the game are a nice touch as well.
Interestingly, this game manages to be even more dark than the King's Field games.

My biggest complain, is that your HP and MP are directly connected to the equipment you're wearing. I find it weird, because if you have to replace a better piece of equipment for a worse one (or if you mistakenly do so), any extra HP you have will be lost, even if you switch to the better piece again. Worse, the standard Equip menu doesn't tell you how each equipment piece changes your HP/MP, so to be sure, you have to go to the slower Equip Info option.
I don't mind it much when a piece of equipment gives you HP/MP as a bonus (as is done on many RPGs), but don't really enjoy it like this.
There's also the blocking mechanic which, much like Blinge said, is pretty useless, since even when blocking, you take damage anyway. I just end up wielding a shield for the stat bonuses. It would be cooler if you took no damage when blocking (or only took damage against some hevier attacks), since the shield's durability would ensure you couldn't block ad infinitum. As it stands, I find it better to not block at all.

Other than that, there are only minor things:
- There's no run button anymore, though I feel it isn't as bad as in the first KF, since the areas aren't so open/wide. Might be different further along the game.
- You need to either press Select or double tap the O button, which is very slightly bothersome. It is a necessity though, since the O button is also used for magic.
- The cunes are pretty hard to spot when they are on the floor. There have always been items that were particularly hard to spot in the KF series, but these ones probably take the cake.
- Small loading times when arranging items, checking the monster book or using the paper doll equip menu.
- The big numbers for HP are pretty misleading; despite starting with about 700HP, you'll still dies in about 4 hits from a measly spider. :)

I have a question about the cunes/monster rates, though: are there really only that many cunes and monsters in the entire game? If so, I take it that after a while, you simply won't encounter any more enemies randomly spawning anymore. A bit weird, considering how it was in the King's Field games, but probably for the best, taking into account the equipment durability stat.

Overall, it's a pretty solid game, and I'm having fun with it.
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