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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:46 pm 


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Ajora wrote:
I just beat Ornstein and Smough on my second attempt. That has got to be one of the most amazing boss battles I've ever seen. So god damn epic.


:shock:

Damn. The smeared me like 30 times.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:33 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Second attempt is damn good for a blind playthrough?

Build?
First Souls game?
Summon?


Quality warrior. Yeah, it's my first souls game. Didn't use any summons. I was also high as a kite, so take that however you might. This game's purported level of difficulty confuses me.

Also, this statue is amazing: https://www.first4figures.com/dragon-sl ... usive.html
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:40 pm 


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hahaha i love it. the answer!

weapon tho?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:48 pm 


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I've been primarily focussing on the longsword.

Quick question. As I understand, if I join a covenant by using the bonfire I won't get any sin, but if I join covenants by talking to NPCs I get sin, correct?
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:57 am 


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First time is always weird. DS1 was my first Souls game and on my first run it took me three or four times to beat Ornstein & Smough. I was like, "Oh, that wasn't so bad." Then on my second new playthrough they beat me into the ground time and time again--I don't remember how many times it took me then, but it was a lot. Point being, don't get too confident just yet. :)
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:54 am 


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Ajora wrote:
I've been primarily focussing on the longsword.

Quick question. As I understand, if I join a covenant by using the bonfire I won't get any sin, but if I join covenants by talking to NPCs I get sin, correct?


Any enchantments on it? what upgrade tier is it etc.

the question makes no sense at all. So I'm gonna say.. incorrect.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:58 am 


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Finished a replay Dark Souls 1. Lotta thoughts on my second playthrough after nearly 5 years. Two in particular though:

So first off: I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say that Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne are easier than this game. My replay made me feel in fact that if anything, From went overboard with the enemy/boss aggression after DS1. The enemy patterns and attacks in this game are all fairly straight forward, easily exploited with just about any build, and satisfying to learn. A far cry from the fucking "9+ randomized combo strings" that you see in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, and that come to a climax in "autistic parry timing: the game" aka sekiro which made me go "yeeeeeeaaaah...no" after grinding through the first real boss fight and feeling completely miserable the whole time. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but I honestly find many of the bosses in Ds3 to be total slogs that make me not want to replay the damn thing.

Second, one of the beauties I think I've realized of this game is that it's possibly the only Action RPG I've ever played where the "action" and "rpg" elements aren't at varying degrees of war and dissonance with each other. Like, for example, take YS Oath/Origin, two games that I love even more. EXP/leveling and the exp combo bonus have their functions in those games (providing you with incentive to actually play the fucking game and kill everything from point a to point b instead of just running past all the enemies), but it also creates this occasionally unstable equilibrium where if you get through an area too quickly you end up under powered during the boss and it takes forever. Or conversely, you end up too powerful if you ran through the stage one too many times, and a potentially very satisfying fight becomes a cakewalk.

DS1 I feel doesn't have this problem, and there are a lot of reasons why. I think the two most important come down to the way many stats actively effect your playstyle rather than just ultimately being damage/defense numbers, and the interlocking wide open nature of the game world.

For the first, stamina in particular is a brillaint mechanic. Unlike most video game "stats" in action rpg's, it's an attribute that changes your entire playstyle (offense, defense, mobility...the works) and how you approach the game at a fundamental level depending on how high you raise it. The same can be said for other attributes like attunement and magic stats, or how strength is connected to weapon and armors you can equip (which themselves change your playstyle), etc.

The other aspect is the world design. A lot has already been said about the interlinking world layout where every area connects to several others in clever ways, and that there's an enormous number of ways to progress through the first 3/4th's of the game depending on what options you take. It's much more meaningful than just having a fork in the road wherein you choose which gauntlet you want to fight through first. But it plays into the games difficulty and action elements real nicely: it's impossible to feel frustrated because whenever you're stuck at a particular boss or section, there's *always* at least 5 other areas to explore and grow stronger in. And unlike the YS example above, growing stronger elsewhere doesn't make you feel like you robbed the game of challenge, since not only did you surmount other challenges in doing so, but planning your route through the game in such a way feels engaging and thoughtful in its own right, and the resulting sense of empowerment well earned and rewarding. It's more like choosing your stage order in a Mega Man game for the weapons and power ups you want than just mindlessly grinding through everything.

-

All in all, the game was a joy. Each area is perfectly paced and fun to explore and clear out, the difficulty curve was more satisfying than later games, and it still gave me a ton of excitement and tension after all this time.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:00 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Ajora wrote:
I've been primarily focussing on the longsword.

Quick question. As I understand, if I join a covenant by using the bonfire I won't get any sin, but if I join covenants by talking to NPCs I get sin, correct?


Any enchantments on it? what upgrade tier is it etc.

the question makes no sense at all. So I'm gonna say.. incorrect.


Physical damage longsword. Currently at +10. It's never let me down.

I don't know how to simplify my question any further. The option to change covenants via bonfire only applies to the remastered version, so that may be why you didn't understand me. According to online sources, if you abandon your current covenant using the bonfire you don't suffer any penalties, but if you abandon your current covenant by talking to any NPC you acquire sin. It just seems like a very strange design choice that blocks you from hearing certain NPC dialogue unless you're willing to suffer consequences.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:31 pm 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
So first off: I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say that Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne are easier than this game. My replay made me feel in fact that if anything, From went overboard with the enemy/boss aggression after DS1. The enemy patterns and attacks in this game are all fairly straight forward, easily exploited with just about any build, and satisfying to learn. A far cry from the fucking "9+ randomized combo strings" that you see in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3


This x 100
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:48 am 


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Look at this stupid Gwyn fight hahah.

With a challenge build my coworker gave me...
" Just punch Gwyn to death! only faith! no lightning! "

I opted not to parry this time as i wanted a bit more of a challenge.
Thank gawd she didn't say "no shield"
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:04 pm 


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Link is missing m8
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:32 pm 


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Quote:
So first off: I honestly have no idea what people are talking about when they say that Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne are easier than this game. My replay made me feel in fact that if anything, From went overboard with the enemy/boss aggression after DS1. The enemy patterns and attacks in this game are all fairly straight forward, easily exploited with just about any build, and satisfying to learn. A far cry from the fucking "9+ randomized combo strings" that you see in Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3, and that come to a climax in "autistic parry timing: the game" aka sekiro which made me go "yeeeeeeaaaah...no" after grinding through the first real boss fight and feeling completely miserable the whole time. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but I honestly find many of the bosses in Ds3 to be total slogs that make me not want to replay the damn thing.


It's really interesting how different people find different things difficult. I died about 12 time on Ornstein and Smough and 4 kings. But 3 was a cakewalk. Most bosses one or two times, most was eight times on that naga thing that shot purple bolts. Final boss three times. Crazy times.

One bit on DS1 that everyone seems to have issues with is the archers in Ando Londor or whatever it is. Never an issue. Hold down run. Maybe I'm lucky.

I will say that the random enemies in 3 are WAY harder than the bosses. I like that balancing. I'm not a fan of bosses in general tbh. Feels gimmicky. I prefer that dungeon crawl feeling rather than that Bayonetta shit.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:34 pm 


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I consider just running any given challenge on your blind run to be pussing out really.

I don't feel like i've beaten a souls until i've killed everything in sight. On the first playthrough at least.

MX7 what was your DS3 build?
However comparing DS3 first time to your DS1 first time is rather flawed as you're now used to the format?
The only useful comparison imo is which game is easier after returning.

Oh that Gwyn fight i mentioned:
https://youtu.be/n9n9nKk7w7Y
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:56 pm 


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I've replayed half of DS1 since and I still find it way harder. Probably my playstyle. In 3 I played a fighter man with lots of strength and stamina and v. little hp or anything else.

With recent events I've got some spare time, so considering playing through Kings Field 2 or King's Field 4. I also found a copy of Armored Core 2 under my desk at work. Pretty strange.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:26 pm 


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That is how i usually play.
is it because you're playing DS1 locked on with only the 4 roll directions?

if not, i literally don't know what you're talking about.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:22 pm 


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And I just can't seem to stop playing Bloodborne.

I didn't finish +2 for almost a week as I started co op and have been really active in r/huntersbell. I've been having a lot of fun helping people out.

I'm up to bl 235ish. Bt 75, sk 99. Vit is next to 99. Currently in the 60s. One I max out vit I'll consider this build complete. Been running the church pick, saif, and a little bow blade if I need a little more damage.

I moved to +3 yesterday and am just trying to open it up so I can help with more bosses.
I've stomped every boss through Rom, however Martyr took me a fair bit..15 or so tries. It's one of if not the best fight in the main game so I can't really complain. Wish Maria was as challenging.

Lastly the Failures. Shitty solo fight, but one of my favorites to co op.

If anyone wants to co option im bloodvialsaremydrug on reddit.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:10 pm 


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So a little context:

On my first playthrough of DS1, I two handed a sword (later Tracer, post dlc area) with wood grain ring. Basically played the game DODGE ONLY. No shielding. On second playthrough, I went very stamina heavy with a 100% physical shield, focusing on blocking.

Loading up my two DS3 saves, one thing I noticed is that my stamina skill was *very* low. My main first playthrough was a dodge focued build with the bandit twin knives (pseudo bloodborne with the special step) I'm thinking that made it a lot harder (I also wasted a lot of points on intelligence/faith points for magic that I ultimately didn't use past the second half of the game). I'm thinking if I can muster the interest, I might try a heavy shield/endurance playthrough of DS3 and see if that makes things feel a little more forgiving.

Still, stats and playstyles aside, if you just look at the design of the bosses they're pretty objectively designed more challenging in terms of raw moveset design:

-Larger movesets overall
-Moves track you harder
-Attack strings are longer. Even endgame and infamous bosses in DS1 tend to end their strings after 3 attacks at most. DS3 and Bloodborne baddies can just keep going on and on and on.
-IMO the biggest thing is there are more timing "mix ups" in said attack strings. Each attack in DS1 strings have sort of the same timings...but in later games bosses deliberately mix it up between "fast quick strikes you have to roll or block immediately" and "extremely long wind up attack that will track you and hit for a bajillion damage if you roll even slightly early". If you're not good at reading animations or timings than memorizing and learning these patterns can be an enormous frustrating slog.
-Less blindspots. A lot of DS1 bosses you can circle around them in ways that ultimately fucks with their hitboxes and tracking and makes a lot of their attacks wiff.
-They have second phase gimmicks that you have to learn after you've learned everything else
-Way more bosses have elemental damage on their normal hits, so 100% physical shields eat more chip damage than in DS1.

Maybe it'll turn out that a more blocking oriented, fighty player character can really neuter their patterns...but looking at the patterns themselves, I really can't think of any meaningful way in way which they could be easier.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:13 pm 


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Still at Bloodborne but got some Sekiro in yesterday on NG.

Yeah I deleted my old file which was NG+4 cause I was messing with mods and the game was giving me
Spoiler: show
Kuro's Charm
on a fresh install. I just wanted to start over fresh whic...

Holy shit it just dawned on me - am I playing on NG+ cycle?

When I was using boss rush mod I was able to finish it with two prayer necklaces and leveled attack power. I tried doing the opposite this time - base attack and necklaces - but honestly in Sekiro it is more fun to be a glass cannon. Base attack is a slog. So I'm sticking with two prayer necklaces and leveling my attack power.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:34 pm 


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Started King's Field 4 after buying it about a year ago. Slow as molasses, almost feels like a turn based crawler, waddling through the gloam and assessing every situation from afar. Playing completely blind as is the From way. It's great so far. Working from home is going to be a challenge with this in the next room.


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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:58 pm 


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The clothing.... unnecessary.

The sword.... cowardly.

The moveset.... redundant.

You are cordially invited to join.. The Jumping R2 Club
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:46 pm 


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Still in Yharnam. My build is complete - Vit 99 End 20 Str 11 Sk 99 Bt 75 Arc 20 which takes me to bl 272. Cane, bow blade, saif, and church pick, all +10. For like the last week I've used the pick almost exclusively, might be my favorite weapon in the game. I see some other players using picks if they ghost by me sometimes, but I've never been matched with anyone else using it. Lots of pizza cutters though!

I've had a lot of fun with co op. Matching up with players is pretty good overall - and r/huntersbell is a godsend. Mostly helping people out with bosses (blind ring and Ludwig/Orphan is almost a guaranteed match) and chalice dungeons.

Blind ring in non dlc is less likely to yield a match though.
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:07 pm 


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DS1 is the only one I've ever been able to no-summon. Every other game in the series has at least one boss that makes me go WTF and give in. I'm yet to play Sekiro, as by that point I just assumed it'd be way past my skill ceiling. Since it's dropped in price and I just picked up an XOX I might bite though...
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 Post subject: Re: From Software 'n such
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:17 pm 


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Marc wrote:
DS1 is the only one I've ever been able to no-summon. Every other game in the series has at least one boss that makes me go WTF and give in. I'm yet to play Sekiro, as by that point I just assumed it'd be way past my skill ceiling. Since it's dropped in price and I just picked up an XOX I might bite though...


I suck and got through it. The only brutal bosses for me were Lady Butterfly (before realizing a trick that I think only works if the game is unpatched) and Owl Father.
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