Phantasy Star Series

[Xyga]

To be honest, playing Phantasy Star 2 with a strategy guide is missing the point entirely.

?
But the guide was bundled with the game, you were supposed to use it !
Otherwise some dungeons are near impossible, and several things impossible to get/find without the lead.

[Blinge]

To be honest, playing Phantasy Star 2 with a strategy guide is missing the point entirely. The plot was good for its time, the setting unique, and a certain overrated JRPG from years later stole its biggest plot twist.

I no longer have the time or patience.

you mean FFVII?

Spoiler

if you mean character death, i swear like half the playable characters in FFII meet a grisly end.
If you mean something else I haven't encountered yet, then well.. nevermind

[Squire Grooktook]

Actually

Spoiler

Half the characters in ff4 met a grisly end, only to be resurrected at the end. Except Tellah.

Don't agree with anything Mischief Maker said though.

[GaijinPunch]

It's a grind w/ the guide book... without... ugh.

[Mischief Maker]

It's a grind w/ the guide book... without... ugh.

That's the point entirely!

It's not a grind when you're exploring the dungeons because the time you spend mapping your way through eliminates the need for enforced grind. It's no mistake that two of the earliest techs Rolf gets are the exit dungeon (HINAS) and return to town (RYUKA) techs. You'll get all the money and XP you need if you challenge the dungeons properly.

To be honest, playing Phantasy Star 2 with a strategy guide is missing the point entirely. The plot was good for its time, the setting unique, and a certain overrated JRPG from years later stole its biggest plot twist.

I no longer have the time or patience.

You don't have the time or patience to map your way through a challenging maze, but you have the hours and hours of time and patience necessary to walk around in circles grinding random encounters for the XP necessary to advance?

[BryanM]

You're making me want to try playing 2 : [

Can't remember if it or 3 was the one I tried playing before, before getting distracted and forgetting it existed.

Always thought the cover of 3 was quite a bit Ghostbusters.



Always thought that 80's metal aesthetic, where everything looks slightly worn down, was a critical feature of the series. The airy magic girl stuff the madmen in control of the franchise today is something a bit different.

[Squire Grooktook]

The airy magic girl stuff the madmen in control of the franchise today is something a bit different.

PSO1's art style was mind blowing. Ultra colorful and exotic. Atmosphere was so thick you could cut it with a knife.

The statement is true for PSO2 and Universe though. But with Pso2 at least the character editor is so in depth, you can really be as metal as you want. I mean if you want, you can be a waifu or a zombie space cyborg. The environments aren't as jaw dropping but some of them are purty.

*edit* there's also a flaming chainsaw motorcycle sword that goes vroom vroom and spits hellfire when you swing it.

[Heavy Viper]

Thanks to this thread, I've decided to pull my finger out and get around to playing through the original Phantasy Stars. I've been playing the PS1 retranslation the past two nights, and last I left it I had just found Myau's weapon (and LODSEMONEY) in Iala Cave, and I'm about to descend into Nala Cave.

I have to say, it's oddly refreshing to play this. It's difficult, certainly, but I'm just enjoying the process of moving through the game. There's something relaxing about playing an RPG this...simple? Gives plenty of room for the imagination to fill in the blanks, especially in battles.

[Blinge]

Yeah the pacing of 1 was really good, which surprised me given my limited experience of SMS games.

You don't have the time or patience to map your way through a challenging maze, but you have the hours and hours of time and patience necessary to walk around in circles grinding random encounters for the XP necessary to advance?

No I haven't devoted hours to grinding, actually. No way near as much as you'd think. As a result I've spent most of the game on death's door.
Also as I stated earlier, I do have a couple of attempts at exploring each dungeon without the book at first then refer to it if i feel hopelessly lost, gaining exp along the way. If that leaves me at a hopeless deficit later so be it, i'll just make it up while catching up on podcasts.

The biggest turnoff for mapping areas myself is the damn chutes don't tell you whether you're going up or down, I can't get over that.

As for my game I've reached the piano in the control tower unaided and let it shove me back outside twice because I didn't feel like using the book..
I did laugh at that.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I happened to think 1 tried to depict characters of realistic proportions before... something was ready for it. First games where those looked good to me would be Karateka, Chelnov and PoP, whereas Phantasy Star dudes looked more like Castlevania or Contra characters (i.e. - not great).

[Captain]

If you see any fancy magic girls in PSO2, know that the players are the ones to blame.

You can make an edgy assassin, cowboy, mecha, or perfectly normal person just as easily.

Or you can just

Spoiler

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^ Ever since they added the possibility of having a bird head, it's been my dream to remake Epsilon Eagle aka the Alien Soldier dude.

I think the Gunner class would fit him nicely.

[Captain]

Inb4 bird head doesn't work with robots.

[Mischief Maker]

The biggest turnoff for mapping areas myself is the damn chutes don't tell you whether you're going up or down, I can't get over that.

Yes they do! The arrow triangles on the chute icon indicate whether they go up or down. If memory serves correctly, outward pointing arrows for up, inward pointing arrows for down.

Like I said, Phantasy Star 2 really isn't designed as a Final Fantasy-style JRPG from a gameplay perspective. (Sadly, Phantasy Star 4 most definitely was.) It's certainly your prerogative to try and force it into the JRPG mold by using a cheat guide, but realize you're doing the equivalent of credit-feeding.

[Squire Grooktook]

Inb4 bird head doesn't work with robots.

Just looked it up to be sure, Robo-birdy is legal

Although, there's plenty enough cyber armor to work with for non-casts anyway.

[Xyga]

You don't have the time or patience to map your way through a challenging maze, but you have the hours and hours of time and patience necessary to walk around in circles grinding random encounters for the XP necessary to advance?

No I haven't devoted hours to grinding, actually. No way near as much as you'd think. As a result I've spent most of the game on death's door.
Also as I stated earlier, I do have a couple of attempts at exploring each dungeon without the book at first then refer to it if i feel hopelessly lost, gaining exp along the way. If that leaves me at a hopeless deficit later so be it, i'll just make it up while catching up on podcasts.

The biggest turnoff for mapping areas myself is the damn chutes don't tell you whether you're going up or down, I can't get over that.

I can't agree with you Mischief M. because even with maps it's already hard to find your way the first time. Drawing your own might be feasible and bearable up to Blue Dam maybe, but after that everything is a fucking super-maze from Hell.

IMHO you'd have to visit several places about 10, 20 times or more (seriously: Ikuto) before you can draw a working map... that's way beyond the 'normal' grinding the game requires to build up levels or buy equipment.
Actually grinding as a whole isn't even that necessary if you decide to keep the same party of four the entire game and think your purchases carefully.
(If you did draw all maps by yourself then kudos. really. but that's way too much suffering for what this game requires IMHO)

Moreover, I find making your way inside dungeons while fearing for your live with every step (like Blinge did) to be the best aspect of PS2's difficulty.
It's fucking tense! when you get out safely you feel soooooo relieved and alive, I don't know many RPG's making the player feel like that. It's 'good difficulty' in my view, not frustrating.
Getting the characters to level up to the point dungeons become a stroll would make the game boring.

As for my game I've reached the piano in the control tower unaided and let it shove me back outside twice because I didn't feel like using the book. I did laugh at that.

Stuff will get more and more serious, remember to save often inside the dungeons.
You'll meet some mofos you'll learn to hate, don't hesitate to cast Deban or Shu/Sashu on the first turn when you meet them, it will help you survive their otherwise unbearably heavy blows.

[GaijinPunch]

It's a grind w/ the guide book... without... ugh.

That's the point entirely!

It's not a grind when you're exploring the dungeons because the time you spend mapping your way through eliminates the need for enforced grind.

It's still a grind. Even w/ the book you had to bail out of the dungeon -> rinse -> repeat a lot which got really repetitive. It's still a good game and at the time, you'd not have found a bigger Phantasy Star fan than me (except maybe the dude that built the web site). But it was not as good as the first. The first has the best non-linear gameplay I can think of (but keep in mind I never touched a FF game) until FFVII (about 5 years after it was out) and amazing pacing. Has a better soundtrack as well. If they ever come up w/ Total Recall I'm going to erase that game from my brain so I can play it again.

[Blinge]

The biggest turnoff for mapping areas myself is the damn chutes don't tell you whether you're going up or down, I can't get over that.

Yes they do! The arrow triangles on the chute icon indicate whether they go up or down. If memory serves correctly, outward pointing arrows for up, inward pointing arrows for down.

God damnit it's true

[Obiwanshinobi]

The first has the best non-linear gameplay I can think of (but keep in mind I never touched a FF game) until FFVII (about 5 years after it was out) and amazing pacing.

How about Romancing SaGa? I've only played the PS2 remake, but THAT is non-linear.

[GaijinPunch]

Never tried that series. Aesthetically didn't seem to appeal to me. Phantasy Star was basically everything I wanted stylistically in a game when I was 12... and ironically now, when I'm 40.

[Pretas]

One of Tim Rogers' rare good articles was an exposé of how much the entire SaGa series sucks and has been blown out of proportion by hipsters like himself who are eager to portray it as being more "hardcore" than Final Fantasy, but I can't remember where it appeared.

It may suffice to say that SaGa originated as the very first RPG for the Game Boy, with all the limitations inherent in first-generation games for the platform, and was designed with no real ambitions, goals or internal consistency other than to allow people to have the JRPG Stat Grinding Experience on the go - still a fresh idea in 1989. However, because it sold gangbusters in Japan, Square decided to bring later entries to consoles anyway.

Minstrel Song on PS2 is definitely the best one, mainly for its distinctive character designs and soundtrack, but man is it ever a chore to play.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Minstrel Song plays the same as about every other jRPG out there - it's all grind & repetition. The one and only distinction between good and bad here being: whether the grind is enjoyable or compulsive at best.

[No_not_like_Quake]

PSIII is an odd one. It almost feels like it's from a different series, though at that point PS games felt quite different from each other, besides items and some monsters and themes. I don't even know if it had the same team/staff of the other games in the series.

[JBC]

PSIII was the first one I tried, having been sucked in by the previously mentioned cover art when I was a kid. It was too complicated for me then & I remember that even the store clerk tried to dissuade me from purchasing.

I'm glad I didn't listen because the game has some pretty crazy atmosphere. I've since played through I, II, & chunks of IV. Compared, I remember III having a much darker & more mysterious tone.

I've read that most people are of the opinion that it is the weakest of the original series but I'd still like to give it another go someday.

[Captain]

PSIII...

There are two sides to this game, really:

-The combat, which is one of the worst examples out there.

-The rest of the game. The story is a masterpiece with many subtle little things you won't notice until you play the other PS games or think logically (connect the dots). The concept of many different endings and characters is also very appealing and alluring, making you want to try every outcome out. The progression I can compare to Metroid in RPG form, you repeatedly find new interests and paths from old areas, revisiting them is hardly ever annoying too.

Overall the single negative aspect - the combat system - makes this game seem horrible, but take it out and you have a solid 9/10 game. Sadly combat is pretty much the core of RPGs.

If you want to properly enjoy the game, much grinding and repetition is involved.

If you want to fully enjoy the game, use some cheats to make yourself invincible and/or disable random battles, and focus on the other brilliant aspects of the game.

The game is unbalanced, full of greatness but outweighed by the horrible core system, unlike PSII which has okay story and okay combat, and is a better game overall, and PSIV which has superb combat and mediocre story.

[Xyga]

I'd say the major problem is that by any era's standards PSIII is ugly as fuck, and the characters are so slow it would irritate a slug if it could play.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm sure PSIII is better atmosphere/story-wise than people have given it credit for, and your post definitely convinces me to keep an open mind and revisit it. But I have a hard time believing it's some forgotten "masterpiece" of story telling, especially when you just said Ps II and IV were 'okay' in comparison. Sounds more like you just got some personal resonance from it.

[BrianC]

From what I remember when I played PSIII, most of the dialog was brief and characters were not well developed.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm not a huge fan of multiple endings. I prefer a canonical story.

[Captain]

I'm not a huge fan of multiple endings. I prefer a canonical story.

If I remember correctly, every single ending is canon. Sadly, my memory is a bit washed out, so i might be wrong.

especially when you just said Ps II and IV were 'okay' in comparison

Definitely not what I stated. Overall II and IV are better games.


And yeah, badly developed characters are a PS trend, not just exclusive to III.