GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[evil_ash_xero]

Fer crying out loud!

The only people shitting up this thread right now are the ones scampering about with their hands in the air shrieking, "Eek! Eek! Someone's talking about gamergate! Lock the thread and cut out their tongues! We don't want to be associated with those people!"

All the people actually talking about gamergate are having a calm and civil discussion, in case you didn't notice.

Yeah, I've been out of state for a day. And just came back to look at the thread.

A little surprised at the "lock this thread! don't talk about it!" stuff in it.

From what I can tell, this isn't a hostile, ban happy forum. I thought we could at least share our opinions on it. If you're anti-gamergate, fine. I don't agree with you, but if that's your thing, go for it. I just feel that most of GG is not about the misogyny thing, and the journalists and SJWs are hiding behind it.

And to tell people to get rid of the GG tag, that's just impossible. It's the movement now. If people changed it, it would lose any momentum, and numbers that is has. Which is probably what SJWs would quite like, I'm sure.

I don't why we can't have a semi-controversial topic, that is related to games here. And I haven't seen a thread dedicated to it. I just some discussion of it in SkyKid's "Internet Shitstorm of the week" thread. But it covers various things.

People will still make "Militarized White People Shooting Militarized Brown People In The Face 4", it will just have to struggle to find a place on the shelf alongside games normal people actually want to buy and play.

I'm sure you'll all cope.

I'm up for "Lock the Gamergate threads", we don't need this GG and SJW bullshit in here, this is the last place I expected for such a thread to pop up and you sir have brought it here. I'm not anti, i'm not pro, i'm not in the middle, I oppose anything related to this stuff.

Why is a gamers' forum the last place you would expect this to pop up?

[Ed Oscuro]

And to tell people to get rid of the GG tag, that's just impossible.

Really? DoritosGate probably still covers the most obvious direction into this question. The rest of what I'd like to see done is just carrying the torch for good game design and artistic freedom. Using the "GamerGate" tag is basically saying "I'm okay with all the crap that's accumulated around this stupid hashtag, including the association with bullies and a failed direction for the campaign."

I'm also not big on using the # because yeah, there is going to be a lot of built up crud on the Dumblr. But eh, wat's new.

shockingly self-unaware attitude towards what certain authors perceived as "basement dwellers" and "aspies" or "virgin losers", I decided there was no side in this I wanted to take-- it was clear to me that nobody in this fight had any professionalism and everyone was just intent at hitting each other below the belt. It's all very hurtful stuff and there's no call for it. You can't throw that kind of language around and then tell the world you're "the good guys" any more than people who sling misogynistic crap around can. I take it seriously because there are people out there who *are* marginalized, who are shunned by their peers, and for whom games are an escape.

Think you hit the nail square - a lot of the problems come from that ancient "let's play Counter-Strike and trash talk" mentality which is very good at making people mad, but absolutely terrible for scrutinizing a point.

I often find it hard to believe GamerGate really has a point. I hear arguments now and then about this or that, but it's not like real political debates (gun ownership, abortion, etc.) where despite the also atrocious use of doggerel and sophistry, there is at least a persistent return to the issue in contention. Here there's too much focus on personalities and messaging methods, a sure sign nobody really knows how to get what they want, or even what they want - even if you agree that it is psychologically probable a bunch of people will side up on both views. That doesn't necessarily look true because it's so hard to understand whether people are angry about an issue, or angry about the messaging, or angry at a person. And likewise, the considered response from professionals has mostly been to underline that this isn't a serious movement with real aims.

It's kind of like saying "I am going to expose to the world how dangerous it is to have faith in online console gaming services" and then your great reveal is a simple DDOS, which you drop the moment Santa Kim Dotcom comes and throws something shiny in your face. What were we doing, again?

[ZellSF]

Fer crying out loud!

The only people shitting up this thread right now are the ones scampering about with their hands in the air shrieking, "Eek! Eek! Someone's talking about gamergate! Lock the thread and cut out their tongues! We don't want to be associated with those people!"

All the people actually talking about gamergate are having a calm and civil discussion, in case you didn't notice.

Gamergate is a flamewar. OP chose to center his discussion around a flamewar and asking people to take sides in it: the responses deriding this are perfectly valid.

We don't want console war topics here, why would we want other shitty flamewars?

Discuss topics that matter, separately from the flamewars some people desperately want to attach them to.

[Satan]

I live a bubble with Edge magazine, this forum and George Bunnyhop. Everything else is AIDS.

[DunlapDunlap]

A little surprised at the "lock this thread! don't talk about it!" stuff in it.

I'm not. Intelligent discussion of a complex issue? That's not something that can be solved by memorizing the bullet curtain patterns and so it scares people.

I'm not surprised this became a toxic topic in the least. Gamers are the most sexist people in history. Remember Rapelay? And every forum I go to has about ten different buggers who claim to have hot waifus so compliant that they can virtually rape them on demand, and these people tend to be universally loved and respected even if they demonstrably have the mindset of a ten-year-old who's never been outside his bubble.

Gamers were totally asking for GamerGate, have been for centuries, and now they just hate that its happened, when its all their own fault. Gamers deserve every piece of shit they've been getting now.

[system11]

Gamers are the most sexist people in history.

If you actually believe this, you have to live in a bubble, it's such hyperbole and completely incorrect.

[No_not_like_Quake]

At this point in time, the term gamer (a term I never liked) is irrelevant, as everyone and their dog plays some sort of video game.

People involved in this so called gamergate nonsense need to learn to pick their battles.

[Mischief Maker]

Gamergate is a flamewar. OP chose to center his discussion around a flamewar and asking people to take sides in it: the responses deriding this are perfectly valid.

We don't want console war topics here, why would we want other shitty flamewars?

Discuss topics that matter, separately from the flamewars some people desperately want to attach them to.

Gamergate is an issue that happened at the wrong time. If people wanted to make a stink about how women in game development get a hostile reception, they should have done it when all those people were creeping on Jade Raymond, as there was no question that her product was a legit videogame that had talent and effort poured into it. If people wanted to make a stink about corruption in gaming criticism, they should have done it when Jeff Gerstmann was fired from Gamespot for writing a negative review of Kane and Lynch while K&L banner ads were plastered across the site.

GG is also strange because it seems fully 2/3rds of the participants don't actually play videogames, from Adam Baldwin to Anita Sarkeesian. I guess actual gamers were too busy gaming to make a fuss, but when the torches and pitchforks were being handed out, they had to acknowledge the elephant in the room of game criticism's corruption.

But the strangest part about GG to me is all the people who have opinions that they voice openly, but at the same time proudly announce how little research they put into making that opinion. It is significant that Zoe Quinn was already a notorious internet drama queen who worked to shut down the female game developer-helping "fine young capitalists" campaign on trumped up charges of "transphobia" long before her shitty ex-boyfriend published his tell-all blog. It is significant that nepotism is rampant in the reviewing community, because a little mainstream attention can be the difference between a screensaver like "proteus" becoming a big money hit, or a brilliant indie 4X like Armageddon Empires getting turned down by steam and its developer quitting videogames. And it's especially significant that shortly after that blog went up and things were looking bad for the critics, several major game-reviewing sites, ostensibly competitors, suddenly published similar "Gamers are dead!" articles in quick succession.

(THAT, by the way, is why it's called "gamergate," for all you people sticking your noses in the air and snorting that the term "gamer" is meaningless. It was coined by the anti-gg crowd!)

[BryanM]

Here there's too much focus on personalities and messaging methods, a sure sign nobody really knows how to get what they want, or even what they want

My inference is they either want a girlfriend or to feel as excited about games as they felt for the first time being exposed to them. We have a thread for potential solutions for that, but of course it's never going to reach multiple pages.

tldr: Just wait sixty to eighty years and if we're not all killed in a fire things will be slightly better all on their own. Maybe.

If people wanted to make a stink about how women in game development get a hostile reception, they should have done it when all those people were creeping on Jade Raymond

They did.

If people wanted to make a stink about corruption in gaming criticism, they should have done it when Jeff Gerstmann was fired from Gamespot for writing a negative review of Kane and Lynch while K&L banner ads were plastered across the site.

They did.

GG is also strange because it seems fully 2/3rds of the participants don't actually play videogames, from Adam Baldwin to Anita Sarkeesian.

When there's an actual contact with both sides, it's just more entertaining than looking at some nutter scream at a wall all day.

The rape allegations of Cosby and Woody Allen would have been conveniently forgotten without the internet, as an example. Since, watching some unengaged news actor mention it over a span of three minutes one or six times doesn't actually stick well in the brain as an actual story. You need protagonists and dialogue to build a story.

[BulletMagnet]

They did.

True, but methinks MM's point is that none of those previous "scandals", for whatever reason, made enough of splash to inspire anything that might be called a "movement" or whatever you'd care to label something on the scale/infamy of "gamergate".

[Mischief Maker]

They did.

True, but methinks MM's point is that none of those previous "scandals", for whatever reason, made enough of splash to inspire anything that might be called a "movement" or whatever you'd care to label something on the scale/infamy of "gamergate".

Gamergate is no more about Zoe Quinn than WWI was about Archduke Ferdinand.

[evil_ash_xero]

A little surprised at the "lock this thread! don't talk about it!" stuff in it.

I'm not. Intelligent discussion of a complex issue? That's not something that can be solved by memorizing the bullet curtain patterns and so it scares people.

I'm not surprised this became a toxic topic in the least. Gamers are the most sexist people in history. Remember Rapelay? And every forum I go to has about ten different buggers who claim to have hot waifus so compliant that they can virtually rape them on demand, and these people tend to be universally loved and respected even if they demonstrably have the mindset of a ten-year-old who's never been outside his bubble.

Gamers were totally asking for GamerGate, have been for centuries, and now they just hate that its happened, when its all their own fault. Gamers deserve every piece of shit they've been getting now.

Do I remember Rapelay? That's ONE obscure game, that most people haven't played, or haven't even heard of. Most people only know of it from those "top 10 most offensive games" vids and lists. I don't know anyone who has a burnt copy of it sitting on their mantle, proudly displayed beside their pictures of middle eastern women getting stoned to death. Because, we are the MOST sexist people...EVER.

What the hell kind of gamers do you know? In my life, gamers I know personally, are very normal people. Are you talking about internet trolls? There seems to be a lot of mistaking internet trolls for large amounts of gamers, in the media lately.

And I'm glad to know we have been asking for it for "centuries". I didn't realize that Pong was so old. Did they find the original program in King Tut's tomb?

[drauch]

A little surprised at the "lock this thread! don't talk about it!" stuff in it.

I'm not. Intelligent discussion of a complex issue? That's not something that can be solved by memorizing the bullet curtain patterns and so it scares people.

I'm not surprised this became a toxic topic in the least. Gamers are the most sexist people in history. Remember Rapelay? And every forum I go to has about ten different buggers who claim to have hot waifus so compliant that they can virtually rape them on demand, and these people tend to be universally loved and respected even if they demonstrably have the mindset of a ten-year-old who's never been outside his bubble.

Gamers were totally asking for GamerGate, have been for centuries, and now they just hate that its happened, when its all their own fault. Gamers deserve every piece of shit they've been getting now.

Oh boy, you're going to be a fun member.

[amerrykan]

On every Cave game I own, I have to go into the settings and turn down the wallpaper brightness, otherwise I get anime titties burned into my plasma screen.

This is why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer.

[Mischief Maker]

On every Cave game I own, I have to go into the settings and turn down the wallpaper brightness, otherwise I get anime titties burned into my plasma screen.

This is why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer.

I know, there's nothing worse than having the purity of your simulated mass murder rampage sullied by the idea of female sexuality.

[chempop]

simulated mass murder rampage

[amerrykan]

Gosh, I wonder why shmups can't reach mass market acceptance?

*the cover of every recent title in the genre looks like some anime porno trash*

[mamboFoxtrot]

I was always under the impression that the tits and lolis were a desperate bid to increase their mass appeal... in Japan at least.

[drauch]

Gosh, I wonder why shmups can't reach mass market acceptance?

Because they're difficult and with a steep learning curve.

This is why I'm embarrassed to be a gamer.

Then quit.

*the cover of every recent title in the genre looks like some anime porno trash*

Google "hentai" to educate yourself what actual "anime porno" looks like.

[evil_ash_xero]

I was always under the impression that the tits and lolis were a desperate bid to increase their mass appeal... in Japan at least.

Yeah, it's kind of weird like that. Over there, it's a bid to appeal to the Otakus.

But a lot of Western gamers, find it to be too girly looking. I have some friends who will chuckle when I show them the covers to Mushihimesama or whatever. They always get the impression it's some kind of dainty game.

Dragon's Crown's "T and A" makes more sense to me.

In old threads here, there was a lot of "why are CAVE doing this?!", in them, when games like DeathSmiles would come out. I really like that game, but am not a fan of the loli thing AT ALL.
I don't really like T and A in games much anyway, since I find it to be pandering...but the loli thing is/was embarrassing. It either looks like a little girl's game, or a pedo's game.

[charlie chong]

Gangster rappers are the most sexist people in history.

[/quote]

fixxed

[Marc]

Oh and by ethics I'm not referring to whatever may or may not have transpired with the Zoe nexus of drama, I mean the generally cushy relationship the media has been enjoying with particularly larger publishers.

End of thread. What happened with Rab Florence and Eurogamer was actually soul destroying.

[Xyga]

Gamers are the sexiest people in history.

[Mischief Maker]

Finally, a sane and measured take on gamergate:

http://youtu.be/n7faUHdlh9g

[Bananamatic]

did they just call fps a shoot em up

[Ed Oscuro]

the greatest tv show of all time already dealt with these issues: First Person Shooter (X-Files episode)
...and I don't even like X-Files

[qmish]

They say SyrianGirlpartisan has the best videos and that after Internet Aristocrat quiet, there is nothing really helpful going on.

[evil_ash_xero]

And now, the "game journalists", and folks like Feminist Frequency can smile at what they have made gamers look like. Good work, guys! You're great for us.

Somehow, they're all mad about it too. Funny, when all the fucking ammo came from their mouths.

Watch out ladies, next time you go to a games con, you may get assaulted or raped! Yes, the rapes of game cons. They are so legendary by now.
You can read about them on Dark Net.

Gamers hating women playing games, or being in the industry is a fucking lie. I have yet to see ACTUAL gamers have this opinion. The only thing they can point to are trolls.
It's just absurd. This is something they just keep pushing over and over. And it is just so untrue.

It's very upsetting.

Any of you guys hate women? Know any gamers that hate women? Let's tally this up.

[Mischief Maker]

Well come on now, we've been put in our place by the good people behind Law & Order SVU, who are the last people on Earth to do something so crass as try and make a buck (or two) off lurid depictions of rape.

They leveled up.

A developer is like God...

No reset button in the real world!

We can't trace where they're coming from?
They uploaded through the Dark Net...

Level completed... this is a game to them!

Does he play videogames?
Yes, why?
WHERE? WHERE DOES HE PLAY?!!

Rape is a mod in level 16 of KobS.

Not like shooting in a videogame, huh?
Actually, IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME!
(First person view)

So 20 years of gaming, or whatever you do with that controller, paid off!

Women in gaming... what did I expect?

[CStarFlare]

I can't believe SVU is still on.

Do people watch L&O for reasons other than Sam Waterson?