GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.

[undamned]

It's telling to me that young women are currently exploring the world for the first time as adults accompanied by so much anger but are blaming the anger of men for their problems. The most misunderstood element of first world feminism is that a lot of it involves unlearning the damaging lessons women have been taught about women.

How much of it is unlearning bad lessons, and how much of it is simply women who are experiencing anger because that's what young people do?

Here's a fitting snapshot from the Anita-fangirl former Community Manager of Mighty No.9:

https://twitter.com/PetiteMistress/stat ... 3449027584

That's actually status quo for her, not just a singular outburst.
-ud

[Ed Oscuro]

what does gamergate have to say about this?
https://twitter.com/anthelope/status/583738882623176704

[evil_ash_xero]

Here's a fitting snapshot from the Anita-fangirl former Community Manager of Mighty No.9:

https://twitter.com/PetiteMistress/stat ... 3449027584

That's actually status quo for her, not just a singular outburst.
-ud

I don't know a whole lot about her, but from that, I can see why some people didn't like her.

[dcharlie]

colour me genuinely surprised at the number of pro-GGs here - for me, it's pretty transparent as to what it is and i don't for a second believe from its inception to it's bungling attempts to hide what the major messages are that is particularly anything to do with gaming.

Hell, half of the responses here are akin to "SJWs piss me off" ... it's about ethics in videogames journalism , is it not? (of course it isn't)

Not that i'm particularly an "anti" anti - i've seen enough nonsense on that side to know i'd not buy in to that side either.

As the wife is a massive gamer - i get a pretty good insight of the (largely sexual) abuse she gets online when on non-JPN servers, the frustration at some character choices etc. As someone else put it - the ground i'd like to see broken is just a bit more in the way of rounded female characters.

Ultimately - i've not used gaming journalism for years (so i can't really comment on that and frankly neither do i care and i honestly can't think of many long term gamers who use it either), i want to see a full range of games (I disliked the Hatred trailer, but it should live/die on it's merits as a game/piece of art rather than being banned), and SJWs are a handy shorthanded target for MRAs so they can point at them and try to instill ideas like "Women have equal pay already!" or other more extreme ideas (or the Brietbart style laughable argument that MEN ARE THE REAL VICTIMS!)

[evil_ash_xero]

colour me genuinely surprised at the number of pro-GGs here

From my experience, most "core" gamers lean towards GG, or are at least far more sympathetic to it, than anti, when you tell them the positions of both.

And the reason "SJWs Piss Us Off", is their wanting to censor and shame everyone into doing things their way. I don't care if they have those actual opinions, but trying to push this on everyone else...well, then you get angry.

Here's just one Real Life situation, I'd like to bring up, to show how pathetic and sad SJWs and their "I'm offended and triggered" thing is getting.

The University of Michigan was going to show American Sniper, for students to discuss. OK, well, SJW students protested, and they cancelled it.
So they went and showed PADDINGTON. The bear movie. A kid's movie. This is how sad things are going. We are so afraid of offending or triggering someone, that we are now showing children's movies to college students. Let this sink in, and tell me it's a good thing.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... owing.html

And please don't even make me bring up "jazz hands" instead of "clapping", because the latter triggers people now. This is a real thing. These people had their spines removed at birth, I'm sure of it. Look it up, if you don't believe me.

Do you want to live in a "safe space" society, like this? This is the bigger picture, that goes beyond games.

[dcharlie]

Do you want to live in a "safe space" society, like this? This is the bigger picture, that goes beyond games.

No, and i don't think that is what will happen - we have two sets of extreme idiologues lobbing crap at each other. The far right end alternative being peddled isn't something i want either.

The answer is obviously somewhat in the middle.

(also - i can only see blogs saying Paddigton was shown - i see most places that the decission was reversed and American Sniper was shown (?))

[Bananamatic]

colour me genuinely surprised at the number of pro-GGs here - for me, it's pretty transparent as to what it is and i don't for a second believe from its inception to it's bungling attempts to hide what the major messages are that is particularly anything to do with gaming.

Hell, half of the responses here are akin to "SJWs piss me off" ... it's about ethics in videogames journalism , is it not? (of course it isn't)

what is gamergate anyways, there's no membership or anything official

either way shit was awful months ago
first the DmC reboot negative feedback happened and you had headlines like "entitled gamers kill brand out of spite", talking shit about the whole fanbase because a few idiots decided to send death threats, etc.
same with mass effect 3, people didn't like the ending and everyone was an "entitled baby"
now the order 1886, same bullshit
then you have journos shilling pay2win mobile games like kim kardashian hollywood as GOTY material and everyone suddenly declaring gamers as dead

it's not that people are "pro-GG", it's just incredibly hard to side with people who insult their own audience because of a few trolls, twitter drama queens and people who are offended by clapping

[evil_ash_xero]

Do you want to live in a "safe space" society, like this? This is the bigger picture, that goes beyond games.

No, and i don't think that is what will happen - we have two sets of extreme idiologues lobbing crap at each other. The far right end alternative being peddled isn't something i want either.

The answer is obviously somewhat in the middle.

(also - i can only see blogs saying Paddigton was shown - i see most places that the decission was reversed and American Sniper was shown (?))

American Sniper was shown, elsewhere. (from what I understand...it says that in the link I posted. Unless they updated it again)

You should REALLY look into current college political atmosphere. It's shocking. This is not a rarity, nor is there any reason to think it's changing course. That's FAR more worrying than GG.
But I'm just working with what I can directly affect.
But if you look into how universities are turning into real life Tumblr, it's disturbing and quite sad.

And for me, it's worth pushing back, at least somewhat.

[evil_ash_xero]

Any other loonies like Brianna Wu or Leigh Alexander I can learn about?

Johnathan McIntosh (the writer of Feminist Frequency) has some AMAZING tweets.

Ian Miles Chong, who is an Asian, former Nazi supporter. I'm not sure exactly who he is, but he's definitely one of the antis who was a part of the big clique.

Not a part of GamerGate, but look at this KickStarter community manager. Nice posts, huh?

http://twitchy.com/2014/11/28/seriously ... te-people/

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Hell, half of the responses here are akin to "SJWs piss me off" ... it's about ethics in videogames journalism , is it not? (of course it isn't)

Gamejournos for the most part are SJW and if you don't toe the line then you're branded an MRA oh wait

[dcharlie]

well - I guess I am just out of touch with gamers - Gamergate (regardless of sjw stuff) is clearly odious shitheads running the show (mike c , Milo, etc - all non gamers and , in Milo's case, someone who hated gamers until they suddenly became "useful")

As I said - not siding with sjws - but pretty surprised/disappointed people are lumping in with Gamergate

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

^what, you think Milo and Cernovich are significantly worse than AGG? Did Milo kick anyone out of a con? Shut down any charities? Create any Twitter blacklists? Are they openly racist? Do they proudly hate all men? I don't think it's too much of a stretch to side with these guys over the average Ghazzelle. 'Hating gamers until they became useful' just puts them in the same boat as Anita.

They are assholes though.

[Bananamatic]

What did Milo do again? Everything I find on him is biased in one way or another

honestly everything in this shitstorm is thought of as good or bad for some reason, there's no middle ground
just mention gamergate in some places without calling it a hate group and you get instantly banned

[MR_Soren]

Sick of SJWs, sick of GG trolls making gamers look bad.

If a game full of misogyny and sexualized women sells well, then so be it. Somebody else can make a game full of misandry and sexualized men and try selling that too. Others will make games somewhere in between or stay off of that spectrum altogether.

Let the market determine which of these games thrive or fail. We don't need people telling us what we are supposed to like.

Unfortunately, there is probably some high-level pressure to neuter gaming and increase mainstream acceptance because the largest publishers need an area for growth. Fans of traditional video games are not a growth area, and we've witnessed the results of that since the '90s. The current BS is the sound of us becoming increasingly marginalized.

We can expect even more games with lame hand-holding cakewalk gameplay that allows everybody to experience the story, except now the stories will all be approved by social engineers who seek to create a world full of pussies. Cigar-smoking space marines are a thing of the past and chainmail bikinis are no longer in fashion; instead we'll have characters whose journey is a metaphor for the transgendering process as they seek to open the mind of their disapproving father.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

What did Milo do again? Everything I find on him is biased in one way or another

Milo's the right-winger who exposed the gamejournos mailing list.

[evil_ash_xero]

well - I guess I am just out of touch with gamers - Gamergate (regardless of sjw stuff) is clearly odious shitheads running the show (mike c , Milo, etc - all non gamers and , in Milo's case, someone who hated gamers until they suddenly became "useful")

As I said - not siding with sjws - but pretty surprised/disappointed people are lumping in with Gamergate

I agree with the above post. Milo is an asshole, but he's a good counter for Anita. You know, someone with a name. And he did some good journalist work as well. So, I'm happy about him. Then you have Christina Hoff Summers, who sides with GamerGate. Not a gamer, but not an asshole.
Adam Baldwin, of course, but he is not a gamer at all either.

Actual "gamers", who are sympathetic, or side with GamerGate would be TotalBiscuit (with 2 Million subscribers, he would probably be the biggest one), Boogie (he sympathizes, but isn't all in. but got banned from NeoGAF for his opinions on it.), and AlphaOmegaSin. There's more, but those are bigger names.

People that are gamers (but are known primarily for opinion channels), who keep things going, but don't really say they are GG are Sargon of Akkad, Thunderfoot, and Mundane Matt. Once again, those are off the top of my head. InternetAristocrat was definitely a gamer, but he jumped ship, due to GG not being extreme enough, or something. He was pretty major though.
Liz F is pretty well known as well, and is now a writer on the Escapist.
So is Honey Badger Radio (or GirlWhoWritesWhat primarily), who got banned from the Calgary Expo, for political reasons.

And there's a bite size of information for you. Who are all the assholes you are talking about? Milo? He's a weird one, because he's a gay right wing man, who seems to support everything I don't like in American politics, but when it comes to this I completely agree with him. Strange bed fellows.

everything in this shitstorm is thought of as good or bad for some reason, there's no middle ground
just mention gamergate in some places without calling it a hate group and you get instantly banned

Yeah, that's one of the things that have us so upset. It's nuts. I can't see why they haven't had Milo or TotalBiscuit on TV, just as the "counter point" to Wu and Sarkeesian.
It's so one sided, that it's not funny.
And this is making us ALL look bad (GG or not). Just look at that awful Law and Order episode.
Milo raised 10,000 dollars to try and entice Sarkeesian into a debate, but it's not going to happen.

GG is NOT a hate group. If you get in the GG circles on Twitter or Reddit, it is simply not like that. It's misrepresentation on a massive level.

I would just LOVE for a live debate or something, so the general public could make up their own minds about it, rather them getting a one-sided viewpoint on it, from the major News outlets. It's so disheartening to see people you look up to in comics or tv or whatever, and they just think you are absolute scum, if you have GG on your Twitter or whatever. But we're used to it.

On topic, but kind of not...I was watching a RiffTrax lately, and there were a bunch of jock looking dudes, who were sitting around drinking beer, and one of them was quite racist. They joked and said something like it was the birthplace of GG. It made me sad, but it made me laugh as well. We are primarily a bunch geeks and nerds. Not a bunch of jocks!
I wish I looked like the guys they were making jokes about.

I would guarantee that the vast majority of GG are the EXACT opposite, of these guys.

Here's a pic of a GG get together. Not really the jocks and whatever else, they make us out to be, now is it?




And here's a SHORT vid of a get together, with Milo in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuobI2cska4#t=28

[Mischief Maker]

As the wife is a massive gamer - i get a pretty good insight of the (largely sexual) abuse she gets online when on non-JPN servers

I know! One time I went on a non-JPN server and a nasally-voiced teenager called me a "faggot" and later said, "suck my dick!"

To that I replied, "Hey, hey, you're talking to a MAN here, buddy!"

Immediately the teen replied, "Oh dear I'm so dreadfully sorry, sir, I thought you were an easily victimized woman! It was not at all my intention to subject a fellow man to abuse, sexual or otherwise! After all, the reason it's called 'shit talk' is because it's 100% serious and communicates clear intent!"

[evil_ash_xero]

As the wife is a massive gamer - i get a pretty good insight of the (largely sexual) abuse she gets online when on non-JPN servers

I know! One time I went on a non-JPN server and a nasally-voiced teenager called me a "faggot" and later said, "suck my dick!"

To that I replied, "Hey, hey, you're talking to a MAN here, buddy!"

Immediately the teen replied, "Oh dear I'm so dreadfully sorry, sir, I thought you were an easily victimized woman! It was not at all my intention to subject a fellow man to abuse, sexual or otherwise! After all, the reason it's called 'shit talk' is because it's 100% serious and communicates clear intent!"

Exactly. Women get their own type of abuse, and men get their own type of abuse.

Men still get more abuse than women online, but obviously women get more sexual comments. Unless you want to lump "faggot" into sexual, and then who knows? I think everyone's been called a faggot or a nigger at some point.
Sad, but that's how it goes.

[Mischief Maker]

Well let's not forget the real lesson in this discussion of JPN vs non-JPN servers:

Women get treated much better in Japan than in the states!

[evil_ash_xero]

Well let's not forget the real lesson in this discussion of JPN vs non-JPN servers:

Women get treated much better in Japan than in the states!

Whales, as well!

[evil_ash_xero]

Meant to be a PM. Oops.

[Bananamatic]

i thought the law and order episode was hilarious, especially the part where they called the FPS a shoot em up multiple times

funnily enough the only ones offended by it were the antis, meanwhile everyone including 4chan laughed at how absurd it was

[evil_ash_xero]

i thought the law and order episode was hilarious, especially the part where they called the FPS a shoot em up multiple times

funnily enough the only ones offended by it were the antis, meanwhile everyone including 4chan laughed at how absurd it was

The "They leveled up" line, was probably the funniest thing I have heard in a year or two.

[Despatche]

gamergate is a hate group.

Let the market determine which of these games thrive or fail. We don't need people telling us what we are supposed to like.

yes you do, because you don't know what you like; all you know is what people force on you. that's how humans fundamentally work.

i struggle so much to try and subvert or outright avoid this, and i'm still pretty sure i've made little to no progress anywhere.

[dcharlie]

Sad, but that's how it goes.

I think that sort of attitude is easy to take as a non-female gamer. Writing it off as "oh well, that's just the type of abuse they get" is pretty dismissive.
Again - before you wave the trope de jour of "pfff SJW" - i don't by into that - this is fucking BASIC DECORUM. If everyone was calling my wife a "f-g n-gger jew"? FINE. We are at equality! But that's not the case is it?

my wife will get "coming round your house to f-ck you in the arse" "i will come to your house and rape you" "your slanted c--t is going to feel my c-ck" etc etc. Extremely rarely will anyone make a threat towards me - it's usually just banter. But i can see it / hear it. The same people "bantering" will abuse my wife in the same damned match in vastly different ways.

and , yes, it's a different type of abuse : one is banter , the other is tantamount to physical threats of sexual violence over and over and over and over.
My wife racked up 10,000+ online Gears games before she finally just though "f-ck this for a game of soldiers" and left - now she's moved away from games she loved because arseholes just CANT RESIST being arseholes. Gamergate is helping reinforce this with it's "ah just different type of banter" - that's bullshit.

Women get treated much better in Japan than in the states!

this only happens online - in real life? Women get treat like shit on a daily basis in Japan but in a different way as in the states. Much more subtle , much more institutionalised here.
But that's another thread.

Milo is an asshole, but he's a good counter for Anita.

he isn't a counter for anything - he's in it for his own agenda. The Brietbart Gay guy who wants less gay rights because he doesn't like gays! The Breitbart guy who hated games and gamers and wrote about it over and over until, woah, wait - i do like games and gamers after all!

I have yet to see a single thing written on Breitbart that wasn't right wing garbage - he's in for the ride - he's there for recruiting. Nothing more, nothing less. As a foil to Anita? Bullshit - he doesn't give a two penny fuck. He's just there to get your clicks on his right wing bile spewing site.

GG is NOT a hate group. If you get in the GG circles on Twitter or Reddit, it is simply not like that. It's misrepresentation on a massive level.

been in there several times - and it's the same ever decreasing circles of excuses/rephrasing of what is actually happening. The same points just get brought up over and over and over eventually ending in : "please see this link about gamergate written by gamergate to find out the truth about gamergate". Maybe it's because i was in at ground level watching the shit show start before the hashtag cropped up didn't help convince me of this being anything than a witch hunt based on a teen diary level expose of someones sex life. Also see: Honey Badgers - anyone who can defend what happened at Galgary with a straight face needs a good hard slap with the reality stick.

There -ARE- good people who are "pro-GG" - for certain. But the overall movement is toxic and, as i say, i have not -one- single person i know who has been a long term gamer who identifies with GG. Maybe that's me and because i'm old crusty left leaning scrote.

[Bananamatic]

Sad, but that's how it goes.

I think that sort of attitude is easy to take as a non-female gamer. Writing it off as "oh well, that's just the type of abuse they get" is pretty dismissive.
Again - before you wave the trope de jour of "pfff SJW" - i don't by into that - this is fucking BASIC DECORUM. If everyone was calling my wife a "f-g n-gger jew"? FINE. We are at equality! But that's not the case is it?

my wife will get "coming round your house to f-ck you in the arse" "i will come to your house and rape you" "your slanted c--t is going to feel my c-ck" etc etc. Extremely rarely will anyone make a threat towards me - it's usually just banter. But i can see it / hear it. The same people "bantering" will abuse my wife in the same damned match in vastly different ways.

and , yes, it's a different type of abuse : one is banter , the other is tantamount to physical threats of sexual violence over and over and over and over.
My wife racked up 10,000+ online Gears games before she finally just though "f-ck this for a game of soldiers" and left - now she's moved away from games she loved because arseholes just CANT RESIST being arseholes. Gamergate is helping reinforce this with it's "ah just different type of banter" - that's bullshit.

whatever GG is, it's not one person and there is no rule that telling a random woman you're coming to fuck her in the arse is acceptable, because it honestly isn't and i wouldn't even count it as banter anymore

it just pisses me off because it solves fucking nothing, it's all twitter "awareness" and 24/7 complaining about women being abused online with absolutely no solutions, it's just a circlejerk among people who wouldn't ever pull such shit online while the trolls who do it simply don't give a fuck and will keep doing it even more because people are being visibly upset

the issue your wife has seem to be caused by 2 things:
1) consoles, I play on PC and never encountered such stuff while I saw console players of the same game having whole hatemail collections
2) gameplay with random people and no dedicated server, it just leads to shitty behavior for some reason, most likely because of the lack of admins and inability to remove shitty people instantly - just look at League of Legends and how awful the community is

I've played several thousand hours of FPS on community servers and never encountered such behavior in my life
having played LoL before quitting it the community is beyond redemption no matter what moderation systems they tried to improve it with so yeah...sad but that's how it goes

in the end you have 2 people with almost the same opinion, except one thinks "this is a very important issue (even though i have no idea how to fix it)" and the other thinks it would be very hard if not impossible to fix and avoiding the issue is unfortunately the best solution for now

then the first person calls you a victim blamer, MRA and a rapist
fuck that shit man

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Also see: Honey Badgers - anyone who can defend what happened at Galgary with a straight face needs a good hard slap with the reality stick.

I can empathise with why someone who hasn't grown out of "Right = total evil" would be against GG, but this one genuinely baffled me. Apart from offering a counter-viewpoint, what did the honey badgers actually do?

[dcharlie]

Well at least you acknowledge that it -is- a right wing movement - which is a start

The evil side ? Well - this is where non-linear warfare kicks in and we go down the "that's not us ! We are about ethics !" Etc - I've been round this loop so many times now it's pointless to regurgitate

Honey Badgers : if you go to an even with the express intent of disruption - and you get busted - and then wankers like Mike C start screaming "women's rights!" Without a shred of irony - and if you still think after all this they are just "standing up for (our?) rights" ? I honestly don't know what to tell you - there are charlatans on both sides - honey badgers are right at the top

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Have you heard the tapes? There was no express intent to disrupt. Just engage.

[Volteccer_Jack]

I think that sort of attitude is easy to take as a non-female gamer. Writing it off as "oh well, that's just the type of abuse they get" is pretty dismissive.

It's not the type of abuse "they" get. It's the type of abuse I get on a daily basis (the apparently deeply traumatic "i'm going to fuck you in the ass" and "i'll come to your house irl" are so commonplace as to be comedic memes), and I dismiss it because I have the basic sense to understand that 14 year olds hundreds of miles away aren't something to be concerned about. Teenagers gonna teenage. The options to mute players or report them for inappropriate behavior exist for a reason. If your wife isn't able to do that, she should call the support line, it sounds like a major bug. Did you abandon using e-mail after the ten-thousandth ad about the size of your penis? Or did you mark them as spam and move on with your life?

and , yes, it's a different type of abuse : one is banter , the other is tantamount to physical threats of sexual violence over and over and over and over.

No it's not. "tantamount to physical threats of sexual violence over and over and over and over" is the definition of Xbox Live banter. This is why I use the ancient secret technique of muting everyone in every game I play on the service. But maybe it's all a big Patriarchal conspiracy and only people with penises get to use the mute option.

As a foil to Anita? Bullshit - he doesn't give a two penny fuck.

I sure hope you're not implying Anita gives a fuck. Considering she got over a hundred grand to make fucking Youtube videos and didn't even bother making them.

Also see: Honey Badgers - anyone who can defend what happened at Galgary with a straight face needs a good hard slap with the reality stick.

What happened? A discussion panel had a polite discussion? I'm open to the idea that maybe they went over a line or whatever, but do you seriously think it's indefensible to politely request permission to answer a question, get permission, and then politely answer the question?

It's hard to take you seriously when you fucking open discussion of a topic with a blanket condemnation of people for literally nothing other than having good poker faces. Maybe you should try that reality stick on yourself.

Apart from offering a counter-viewpoint, what did the honey badgers actually do?

Well, the people running the panel gave them permission to speak and never asked them to stop, but as we all know, consent has to be ongoing and positive. They were probably only listening patiently because they were intimidated by their attacker.