shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:12 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2221 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 75  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: GamerGate - and it's continuing aftermath.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 5646
Location: Where the fish lives, WV
I'm just curious to what people lean to on this site. I REALLY don't want to get into battles or anything like that. This is the nice civil forum I go to. :D

But it's kind of a big deal. And especially after the ABC piece on it I am curious as to how gamers (and fellow retrogamers here) feel about it.

So, just "For it" or "Against it" or "In the middle", and a reason.

I am totally for it. I have been peeved by the SJW movement in games for a few years now. From the "controversies" with Bayonetta and Dragon's Crown, to the sites like Kotaku and Gamasutra...well, just doing what they do. Actually, I used to like Kotaku. But since they got taken over by Gawker, they have the SJW thing going on. It's weird, because Gawker has the lewdest click bait in the world, I think. Really LOW site.

For me, I think the problem I have is, I feel that non-gamers are coming in and telling us what we like is bad, and we are bad for liking it. And it offends me. I was a total dork in high school and they remind me of the cool kids (thought they are not very cool...hipsters maybe) putting us geeks down. But now in a grown up fashion. And games to me isn't a "boys club", but it is a place for like minded people. And a lot of us are or were solitary and maybe not the coolest kids out there.
These folks act as if they love video games and our culture, but it seems like they don't, and want to change everything about it.

After that, it's about censorship really. It's so weird to be labeled misogynist for just liking sexy looking girls in games. I mean, that is something we have always liked from TV to movies to games and comics. It's pandering to a certain type of person (most males), but so what? I don't see what's wrong with it. And honestly, I think that argument is a joke. I don't know any gamers personally who actually hate women. I've tried to get my girlfriends to play games with me (as many other gamers do), and a lot of us would like to hook up with a female gamer. There's some people here and there that talk shit but I think it is totally the minority.

Another thing...I'm hoping that after the ABC piece that gamers will start getting the idea that the journalists and games media have a lot of us under attack and are demonizing us. They are also not letting us on any of the shows for counter debates. Why not let Boogie, Thunderfoot, Sargon, or Internet Aristocrat (back when he was in the movement) have a second or two to say something? A rebuttal at least? Everything is so one sided in the media.
And of course this doesn't even take into account those wonderful articles about how "gamers are dead". To me, this is personal. I feel that they just don't want games that appeal to a whole new audience, but to have a new audience to replace us. Because we aren't on the same wavelength as them.
Also, I hope if people look into Feminine Frequency more carefully, that they will start to see they really are about changing games. They are like Jack Thompson with SJW ideals. They say the same stuff. That games affect us subconciously and all this and that. Even though violent crimes have consistently gone down in the years games have been on the rise. And most of the "big" games are violent as hell.
I'm not all into everything being so violent or games being so pandering, but I don't like being painted as a bad person for disagreeing with censorship. Or trying to bully devs into doing something they don't want to do.
Some gamers are starting to get the picture like Alpha Omega Sin with this vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDTtO_lDTs

All the death threats/rape threats/yadda yadda yadda.... That's bad yeah, but Jack Thompson got death threats too and no one cared. And no one has been hurt and I hope to God no one does. But so far it just looks like trolls. And the other side seems to use that as a smokescreen when you start talking about GG. "Hey, you know Anita raised over a hundred thousand dollars and has only released a few videos, uses "Let's Plays" without asking, has said in the past she doesn't like video games, has been involved with shady pyramid type characters". And then they throw "she got death threats". And that's it.
And I got banned from NeoGAF for just disagreeing with her. I got a "you're not a good fit..banned indefinitely". It kind of blew my mind. But I feel like this is how the industry could get if they get more and more power. Disagree with us and you're gone.
Poor Boogie got banned too, just trying to take up for gamers. That's low as he's one of the nicest guys in gaming.

Hopefully this topic won't bore you to tears since it has been going on for a while. But the Nightline piece seems to riled up more gamers who were on the fence, up to this point. So, I thought I would see the effect it has here.

And I don't really care one bit about Zoe Quinn, so let's just skip that if possible (even though that started it).
_________________
My Collection: http://www.rfgeneration.com/cgi-bin/col ... Collection


Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:48 am 


User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 1713
I'm up for "Lock the Gamergate threads", we don't need this GG and SJW bullshit in here, this is the last place I expected for such a thread to pop up and you sir have brought it here. I'm not anti, i'm not pro, i'm not in the middle, I oppose anything related to this stuff.
_________________
Zenodyne R - My 2nd Steam Shmup


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 3012
Location: Portugal
deleted
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Last edited by soprano1 on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:07 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 2231
I'm with Kaiser on locking this thread. Everyone is tired of this bullshit, stop talking about it and hope that it'll go away.

soprano1 wrote:
I'm against putting real world problems in videogames, since videogames are (were?) supposed to be an escape from all that. Where does that put me?

I've heard many times that if you escape real world problems to video-games or any other entertainment, it's a high time to consult a psychiatrist.
So that puts you there I guess.

(and no it was never the purpose of them wtf, quite the opposite)
_________________
I miss the hype-days of saidaioujou.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 3012
Location: Portugal
deleted
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Last edited by soprano1 on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:33 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 6057
Location: UK
I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.
_________________
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 4302
We have a thread for this already. Results:

* Ethics in journalism never existed. For games, they're employed by Activision and EA. Just like TV news [1] is employed by its sponsors. Even PBS has to disclose its Koch and Bank backers.

* People like Thunderfoot who sit in the dark and stew for years about women wanting more for themselves are identical to the people who stew in the dark about Obama being president/Al Sharpton being a person that exists, or about immigrants from Mexico coming in and inflicting our country with economic stimulus and prosperity. Like protesting refugee children is the biggest, most pressing danger. With all the problems in the world, let's get angry about imaginary strangers trying to make their lives slightly better.

* Sure it blows a hypothetical girlfriend is physically capable of cheating on a person. Life is horrible, that's why God invented No Contact and alcohol.


[1] It's kind of funny that nothing on TV is real. "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" applies to TV News Actors, too.

Quote:
It's so weird to be labeled misogynist, for just liking sexy looking girls in games.


Nobody's saying you're hitler for liking giant floating titties. They're just asking for designers to be a little less lazy.

Do you have any idea how many women prefer Tifa over Aeris? There's a reason for this. Tifa's a boobmonster that shoots dolphins out of her fists and beats the shit out of everything. Aeris is a submissive wilted flower staff chick that sinks into the background scenery. Practically nobody wants to be Aeris.

Quote:
I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.


The ocean's not big enough for that!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Posts: 4862
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Noooooooooo.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 3317
Here's my take on the situation, and I think it's a little different than the prevailing narrative. I say what the MREs see as a SJW tendency in game reviewers is actually something completely different:

If there's one thing I've learned from the handful of Shoot Club articles I've skimmed, full-time video game reviewers desperately want social validation. Their parents are constantly asking when they'll get a "real" job, conversations on dates are awkward, "Oh, you're a sportswriter?" and so on. They tried to jazz things up with the avant-garde writing style of New Games Journalism, "This is a review of Cybertanks 3, but let's make it about me for a second..." but try as they might, they could never get the respect of other entertainment media reviewers, like Roger Ebert.

Then one day Roger Ebert spoke out about videogames. He said videogames will never be art. Many took that statement as an attack on gaming, but to games journalists it was a door slamming in their face. "You will never be as respected as me!" was Ebert's message loud and clear.

Shortly after Ebert's statement, a little game called "Passage" came out, remarkable only for how uniformly terrible it was in every aspect of game design. But the author's webpage said it was inspired by cancer, and a new age of videogame reviewing came to be. The age of, "See, see? They can too be art!"

The problem for game reviewers is that videogames aren't movies, they're games, and most of the details that make movies art, like story, are irrelevant to videogames. If you play the card game Bridge using a deck of cards drawn by children in crayon, you're still playing a deep, high-level card game. Likewise if you play Go-Fish with a deck of cards painted by DaVinci himself, you're still playing a children's game. The general public, especially game reviewers' moms, don't necessarily get that distinction, and since their exposure to videogames is watching over their son's shoulder, they judge it like a movie.

Like I said, social validation is more important to reviewers than usefulness to their readers. God Hand is a fantastic game, but if it were a movie, it'd be a pretty fucking stupid movie so everyone from IGN to the Onion savaged it. Papers, Please is a boring, ugly, dreary game, but you could totally take that premise and turn it into a microbudget arthouse film, so it gets universal praise, even from "comedy" reviewers like Yahtzee. It may seem like reviewers are being SJWs when they groan about bubble-titted strippers in chainmail bikinis, but they don't give a rat's ass about female empowerment, they're angry because low-brow entertainment thwarts their goal of making videogames into art.

As for the corruption, I seriously doubt Ebert's hands were clean. This is the guy who gave three stars to "The Happening" and 3.5 stars to "The Phantom Menace," after all. But he got social validation from reviewing movies, so he never did anything blatantly outrageous like leveraging his reviews to get himself a PR job at Warner Brothers, the sort of job a game reviewer's parents would respect.
_________________
A wealthy oligarch and two working-class dudes, one black one white, sit at a table with ten cookies.

The oligarch grabs nine cookies for himself then says to the white dude, "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1311
Location: Pennsylvania
Words don't even begin to describe how much SJWs piss me off.
I'm just going to leave it at that.

And mischief maker, I agree with pretty much everything you say, and I think that a lot of the shit going on in the game industry revolves around the fact video games are trying to turn themselves into movies because that's what the mainstream respects.

I'm really depressed about all this (and really the sorry state of the game industry as a whole), but then again at least I don't have worse things to be depressed about.
_________________
Click here to visit the Church of Yagawa: Long may his medals chain.
Image


Last edited by cave hermit on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 3423
BryanM wrote:
Do you have any idea how many women prefer Tifa over Aeris?

I thought most women prefer Cloud x Sephiroth yaoi over the girls

anyways, I don't think there are many people who are against gamergate and with the opposing side - people either think it's all garbage or at least slightly side with GG because it's goddamn hard to side with twitter drama queens led by McIntosh himself and people who think Kim Kardashian: Hollywood was one of the best games of 2014


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 3012
Location: Portugal
Could i ask a mod to delete my posts in this thread? Thank you.
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1557
soprano1 wrote:
Could i ask a mod to delete my posts in this thread? Thank you.

You can delete your posts yourself
_________________
blog - scores - collection
Quote:
Don't worry about it. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda and back 1500 times before the sun explodes.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 3012
Location: Portugal
ryu wrote:
soprano1 wrote:
Could i ask a mod to delete my posts in this thread? Thank you.

You can delete your posts yourself


The option is not available, that's why i asked. Guess i'll edit them myself.
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 7480
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Kaiser wrote:
I'm up for "Lock the Gamergate threads", we don't need this GG and SJW bullshit in here, this is the last place I expected for such a thread to pop up and you sir have brought it here. I'm not anti, i'm not pro, i'm not in the middle, I oppose anything related to this stuff.
_________________
Image
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 4302
C'mon guys, don't be a Wally, let's jump on the trolley!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 1729
Location: Colin's Bargain Basement. Everything must go.
Totally pro GG

Excellent post from Mischeif Maker once again, the second paragraph rings especially true. I was hoping shmupsforum would be the one place we could have a gentlemanly conversation about this (Twitter is 100% shitflinging) but lock it if you must.
_________________
The biggest unanswered question is where is the money?

1CCS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:36 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2297
Kaiser and system11 bring up good points.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 18348
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs
cave hermit wrote:
that's what the mainstream respects.

Possible edit: Because that's where the fat, lazy money is.

I have to ask myself whether these people even like video games. You can ask the same thing about us hardware fanatics over in Hardware Discussion, but at least we won't lie about the answer :mrgreen:

Totally excellent post by mm, I think that pretty much closes the debate forever (let's hope).


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:19 pm 



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 2431
Location: A star occupied by the Bydo Empire
Cagar wrote:
soprano1 wrote:
I'm against putting real world problems in videogames, since videogames are (were?) supposed to be an escape from all that. Where does that put me?

I've heard many times that if you escape real world problems to video-games or any other entertainment, it's a high time to consult a psychiatrist.


That's 100% wrong. Escapism is a fundamental human necessity, not to the degree of immediate biological demands, but in the tier of requirements to stay healthy and stable (e.g. conversation, exercise, sex). Constant unyielding reality would drive anyone crazy.
_________________
RegalSin wrote:
You can't even drive across the country Naked anymore


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 2231
Mortificator wrote:
Cagar wrote:
soprano1 wrote:
I'm against putting real world problems in videogames, since videogames are (were?) supposed to be an escape from all that. Where does that put me?

I've heard many times that if you escape real world problems to video-games or any other entertainment, it's a high time to consult a psychiatrist.


That's 100% wrong. Escapism is a fundamental human necessity, not to the degree of immediate biological demands, but in the tier of requirements to stay healthy and stable (e.g. conversation, exercise, sex). Constant unyielding reality would drive anyone crazy.

[citation needed]
_________________
I miss the hype-days of saidaioujou.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:00 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 772
system11 wrote:
I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.


I was thinking space catapult but this seems more feasible.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:11 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 2231
system11 wrote:
I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.

You forgot to seal the people who would care about that happening
_________________
I miss the hype-days of saidaioujou.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:20 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Posts: 488
Set them on fire.
_________________
"A bleeding heart welcomes the sharks."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:32 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2008
Posts: 4862
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
Cagar wrote:
system11 wrote:
I'd gather all the SJW and GG people up, seal them in a shipping container and drop it in the ocean.

You forgot to seal the people who would care about that happening


There's plenty of room for nobody in there.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2897
Location: outer richmond
I like MM's post a lot. And I've had productive conversations with people on both "sides" even though I absolutely refuse to take one myself (I was very disappointed in a lot of behavior on both sides of the political spectrum during this whole thing). Excluding extremists, I've also seen plenty of actual concerns voiced on both sides of this issue. But yeah, I think we should lock it because it'll predictably turn into a flamewar.

As for the whole videogames are or aren't art debate: Wasn't that settled when Atari tried treating game design like it was designing any ol' appliance and all their talented devs left?
_________________
Humans, think about what you have done


Last edited by louisg on Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:34 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8000
I'm pro... review. 8)

I learned that gamers can't handle opinions and like to embarrass themselves, making gaming indeed look like Romper Room for manchildren.

Anyone can say whatever they want about entertainment and nothing is being censored. It's trivial.

Quote:
He said videogames will never be art.

I love art. You know you're stepping into a place of art when they're selling you Twizzlers to enjoy it better.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 6057
Location: UK
Cagar wrote:
Mortificator wrote:
Cagar wrote:
I've heard many times that if you escape real world problems to video-games or any other entertainment, it's a high time to consult a psychiatrist.


That's 100% wrong. Escapism is a fundamental human necessity, not to the degree of immediate biological demands, but in the tier of requirements to stay healthy and stable (e.g. conversation, exercise, sex). Constant unyielding reality would drive anyone crazy.

[citation needed]


Wait, let me consult a psychiatrist because I have to work for a living and it's boring. Escapism can simply be daydreaming - is that a psychological problem too?
_________________
System11's random blog, with things - and stuff!
http://blog.system11.org


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 4302
Satan wrote:
Set them on fire.


That's your solution for everything >_>


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pro Gamergate or Anti? Let it out there.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:47 pm 


Banned User
User avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Posts: 488
If it ain't broke...
_________________
"A bleeding heart welcomes the sharks."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2221 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 75  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group