The Pinball Thread

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
boagman
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by boagman »

BrianC wrote:
circuitface wrote: I really wish there were more Dredd games to choose from. I can imagine a table with so many bells & whistles, the coolest sound effects & quotes, but I guess it's not happened yet.
It has been awhile since I have played, but if I remeber correctly, the sound effects and quotes were one thing the Judge Dredd pin got right. It's at least comic based rather than based on the movie and, while I haven't read the comics yet, I did like the "I am the law" sample much better than they way Sly delivered it.
There is that, yes. It's got some decent humor within the voice work, and I happen to like the music as well. Playing the thing, though? It just doesn't come together well, and there is a *ton* of stuff on that playfield. You'd think that, with that kind of bill of materials budget, it would have been a better playing thing, but there's very little incentive to utilize the upper flippers on the game, so you basically take what should be a 10 shot game, and honestly utilize half of that most of the time. For having so much, there just isn't enough there, there.
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Austin
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Austin »

I started playing pinball in 2011 and it's sort of replaced videogames for me in terms of my #1 hobby. It has a lot of the factors that I love about gaming (great music, sounds, gameplay, deep rules) but with a far more randomized nature. It also has a physical element to it as I can take the glass off my games, clean them up, modify them, tweak them, etc. It's also something that is easier to compete in (we have a pretty healthy competitive scene in the Northern VA/DC/MD area) and as such it's easier to meet local people that are into it.

I bought my first machine at the beginning of 2013 which was a Stern Rolling Stones machine. Since then I've owned AC\DC (Stern), Batman: Dark Knight (Stern), Ripley's Believe it or Not (Stern), Eight Ball (Bally, '77), Jokerz! (Williams, 1988), and Last Action Hero (Data East). Back in October I was having some financial issues and had to sell my machines, but things have been looking up again and so I bought a Williams' No Fear machine last week, as well as a Hollywood Heat by Gottlieb/Premier (1986).

We have leagues in this area as well and if you are in an area that has something like that it's a good way to get acclimated with the game.
BIL wrote:The "NO WAY" voice sample in BK2000 sounds a lot like the one in Smash TV and Total Carnage too, I wonder if it's the same?
Yeah, it's the same one. A lot of sound effects were shared between pinball machines and arcade games between the Williams, Bally and Midway brands (technically they were the same company). A lot of the same people that worked on the music and sounds for pins also worked on video games as well (for instance, Dan Forden did the music and sounds for a ton of pinball machines, but the Mortal Kombat games as well). You can hear the original Mortal Kombat gong sound in the Twilight Zone pinball machine, for instance. Having grown up playing the hell out of games like Smash TV, Total Carnage and the Mortal Kombats, it's really interesting to be getting into pinball and hearing these sounds I am familiar with. When I was a kid I didn't know they were essentially all owned by the same company and that many of the same people worked on both types of games (Ed Boon of MK fame for instance does the voice of Rudy on the Fun House table, as well as the coding for other pins; Steve Ritchie, famed designer of games like High Speed, BK2K and The Getaway did the voice work for Shao Kahn in the MK games). It's pretty cool.
circuitface wrote:How is that Judge Dredd machine, anyone know?
It depends on what angle you come at it from. If you aren't very good or don't care about rules, it's a solid pinball machine. Lots of shot variety, combos are fun, the modes are varied. If you are interested in deep rules though, it doesn't really have that. You can't stack modes into a multi-ball, and there is only one wizard mode in the game ("Ultimate Challenge") and it's kind of underwhelming. It's also a machine that has to be in solid working order to get the most out of. If the flippers are weak and the game is dirty, you aren't going to be able to hit the ramps on the game. But if it's working well I think it's a fun game. I probably won't ever own one but I'll give it a few tries if I see it on location.
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BIL
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BIL »

Austin wrote:Yeah, it's the same one. A lot of sound effects were shared between pinball machines and arcade games between the Williams, Bally and Midway brands (technically they were the same company). A lot of the same people that worked on the music and sounds for pins also worked on video games as well (for instance, Dan Forden did the music and sounds for a ton of pinball machines, but the Mortal Kombat games as well). You can hear the original Mortal Kombat gong sound in the Twilight Zone pinball machine, for instance. Having grown up playing the hell out of games like Smash TV, Total Carnage and the Mortal Kombats, it's really interesting to be getting into pinball and hearing these sounds I am familiar with. When I was a kid I didn't know they were essentially all owned by the same company and that many of the same people worked on both types of games (Ed Boon of MK fame for instance does the voice of Rudy on the Fun House table, as well as the coding for other pins; Steve Ritchie, famed designer of games like High Speed, BK2K and The Getaway did the voice work for Shao Kahn in the MK games). It's pretty cool.
Good post! I'd wondered about pin/videogame staff crossover after noticing Ed Boon's name on the BK2K machine in the video. :smile:
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

What's the best package containing The Empire Strikes Back table by Zen Studios on PC? Or is Star Wars Pinball the only one?
circuitface wrote:Dredd vs Death (a fun but unrealized take & plain... first person shooter, yuck).
Did you play it? I like the PC version.

I saw some old-ish Dredd pinball PC game on certain auction service, but not having found any other information what it was I didn't buy it.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by JBC »

Yeah, I have it on GC. It feels really plain & tired. Really underwhelming when you think about how much depth the world of Dredd can afford you in a video game. One thing that tipped me off to this was arresting citizens. You just walk up & press a button, then it automatically sentences them (usually for something pretty funny though :lol:). Why not a full out mini game where you pull up their record & dispense justice accordingly, then have your accuracy ranked? Where's my whiz-bang Lawmaster careening down a skyway in a firefight intro? Nope - forced training course. It feels like a Quake 2 era game when it came out much later. It's not horrible, but it seems like it could have been so much better.
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JBC
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by JBC »

Judge Dredd Pinball Promo Video via YouTube
I finally got around a stable connection long enough to watch the original US promo video. It looks great! Alot of the other stuff I've read about it says it's very hard but I expect no less from something bearing the name. I think I'll try to make this my first machine.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BPzeBanshee »

So Pinball Arcade has been really gathering steam per say. Return of the 360 version, portrait mode, DirectX 11 lighting in public beta, Addams Family and other tables, and as of within the next 24 hours Xenon as well. Probably spent more money on this than I have on shmups to be honest. >_>

Anyone played Rollers of the Realm? Weird RPG/Pinball hybrid. Like the concept but I think some of the voice acting really ruins it.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

I read that there are still issues with season 2 & 3 working on 360 pinball arcade. I'm not buying those until it's fixed.
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MOSQUITO FIGHTER
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

So, I just bought seasons one, two, three, and phantom of the opera for 360. They all seem to be working fine. Maybe it's just on certain models that they don't show up. I've been playing this pretty much all day straight. Bram Stoker's Dracula is so good. I love how it sends the ball out in slow motion. Cool stuff. Attack from Mars is so good. So many great tables. I hope that they do Sopranos next.
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Austin
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Austin »

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:I hope that they do Sopranos next.
It's doubtful.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

Austin wrote:
MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:I hope that they do Sopranos next.
It's doubtful.
I can't imagine that it would cost more than the Terminator 2 license.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

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MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:
Austin wrote:
MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:I hope that they do Sopranos next.
It's doubtful.
I can't imagine that it would cost more than the Terminator 2 license.
Something they had to run a Kickstarter campaign for, mind you. Sopranos the game itself, while good, doesn't have the same kind of following nor does it trigger the same kind of nostalgia that T2 does. I wouldn't rule it out completely, but if you see further tables based on licensed properties, you can likely expect FarSight to focus on ones that are cheaper to get ahold of. My guess is they are going to focus more on original table designs. They are cheaper to acquire and there are boatloads of them still out there.
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MOSQUITO FIGHTER
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

So which of the pinball arcade tables released so far do you think are the most difficult? I'd say Black Knight 2000.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BrianC »

James Gandolfini's death could possibily cause issues with licensing Sopranos, as well.
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MOSQUITO FIGHTER
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

True. It's too bad. I actually got to play a legit Sopranos quite a few times. All the shots on that table just feel right on to me. It was so satisfying. By far the best Stern table that I've played.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Austin »

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:True. It's too bad. I actually got to play a legit Sopranos quite a few times. All the shots on that table just feel right on to me. It was so satisfying. By far the best Stern table that I've played.
Meh.. I've got one in my apartment. The Sopranos is a good game, but it hardly tops anything new Stern has put out recently. It's what they call a "grinder". Basically, tons of the same repeated shots over and over again to progress through goals and objectives with a generic "fan" playfield layout. Games typically play long (30+ minutes) and as such the game wears on you quickly. Transformers is the same way (albeit worse in the grinding aspect). Sopranos has some good callouts and humor, but asides from the mini wizard mode (Underboss) and the wizard mode (Boss), no single mode really stands out on the game.
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MOSQUITO FIGHTER
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

I thought it was cool how it doesn't try to drain quickly. I didn't mind the long games.

Most of the Stern tables I've played in real life I thought were pretty weak. X-Men is one of the lamest examples I can think of. Avengers felt totally barren. Pirates of The Caribbean was pretty decent. Did you like Metallica?
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Stevens »

Apparently there is a new KISS machine in the works? A few of my friends seem super excited about it.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

Stevens wrote:Apparently there is a new KISS machine in the works? A few of my friends seem super excited about it.
It looks cool. I like how the jet bumpers look like the ones from the original machine.

Has anybody here played Wizard of Oz? I thought it was going to be great. But I was really disappointed with it. Too much crap on the playfield.
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BrianC
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BrianC »

I find it funny how the 70s KISS machine adds extra notes to the Harlem Globetrotters theme in an attempt to sound like Rock and Roll All Nite.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

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MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:I thought it was cool how it doesn't try to drain quickly. I didn't mind the long games.
Based on your previous comments, it sounds to me like you are relatively new to pinball. The long game times might seem like a good thing now, but learn some involved flipper skills, learn the rulesets of the games you play, and become more accurate with your shots, and those currently "long" game times will turn into what feel like work (not in a fun kind of way). If you're not good at keeping your ball in play, an easy game like the Sopranos is going to seem like a godsend, especially if you are paying money on location somewhere. I'll be interested to hear your opinion on these games though a few years from now when you have had more experience with varying pins and you've improved your game.
MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:Most of the Stern tables I've played in real life I thought were pretty weak. X-Men is one of the lamest examples I can think of. Avengers felt totally barren. Pirates of The Caribbean was pretty decent. Did you like Metallica?
Due mostly to cost-cutting measures over the years, many Stern games don't have as much going on toys-wise as the Bally/Williams games from the '90s. However, I prefer the Stern games because their rulesets are far deeper than the majority of what Bally/Williams put out in the '90s.

X-Men is a solid game when you know what to do. It has a deep ruleset. It has a ton of tight shots though so if your aim isn't very good, it's going to punish you.

Metallica is excellent. Big risk versus reward payoffs in that game. It wasn't so great though when it was new. It was shallow with not much to do. Now that the game code has been built upon further and polished up, the game is one of Stern's best.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by boagman »

MOSQUITO FIGHTER wrote:By far the best Stern table that I've played.
You need to get out and play more modern Stern tables. A *lot* more modern Stern tables.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by boagman »

Austin wrote:Due mostly to cost-cutting measures over the years, many Stern games don't have as much going on toys-wise as the Bally/Williams games from the '90s. However, I prefer the Stern games because their rulesets are far deeper than the majority of what Bally/Williams put out in the '90s.
You're not wrong, necessarily, on the cost-cutting front, but I'm going to take exception/issue with the characterization of the modern Stern machines being deeper than the WMS counterparts in the 90's. In a couple of different ways:

1. Not all of them are. In fact, the Stern software has been quite a deep-seated point of contention in the last, say, decade or so. Most of the time, the machines leave the factory with seriously incomplete software that *may* OR *may not* be sufficiently updated as time goes by. Ask anyone who ordered "Wheel of Fortune" as a pre-order. You're going to see facial tics appear that you never knew those people had. It's not just that machine, though. I can run through myriad modern Stern machines that are merely a shadow of what WMS was putting out in the 90's. Many Stern machines feel *inferior*, even in terms of software/rules, to many of the 90's WMS counterparts. That being said, there are some absolutely terrific machines that have rolled off the line at Stern...but the statement you made is, in my opinion, too, too generous toward modern Stern machines.

2. With a 20-year advantage, plus a great increase in technology, *plus* employing some of those same WMS people now, how could they *not* be making deeper software now? I mean, don't misunderstand: good is good, but what the guys are working with *today* as opposed to the level of tech available to them in 1995, don't you think that it's a bit unfair to saddle WMS back then with such a millstone?

I can get on board with what you're saying to a degree, as I know what you're trying to say. You're painting with *such* a wide brush, though, that I can't just let it slide by without saying something about it.
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Austin
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by Austin »

boagman wrote:1. Not all of them are.
It goes both ways and there will always be exceptions on both sides. Games like TAF, TZ, Monster Bash, and Medieval Madness being perfect examples of nice, deep Bally/Williams games. Lots to do, they don't force your hand to play a specific way every time you play, and there's plenty of subtlety (unlike shining examples like No Fear or Judge Dredd).
boagman wrote:In fact, the Stern software has been quite a deep-seated point of contention in the last, say, decade or so. Most of the time, the machines leave the factory with seriously incomplete software that *may* OR *may not* be sufficiently updated as time goes by.
There's no debating this. Stern's software is usually a miss when a game rolls off the line and only time tells whether it is updated or not. I don't agree with this practice either and it's something I hope Stern is able to work on. That said, a small few games aside (Wheel of Fortune is probably the biggest example), I can't think of many rulesets in the last 12 years that haven't been fleshed out even if they aren't technically "complete".
boagman wrote:Many Stern machines feel *inferior*, even in terms of software/rules, to many of the 90's WMS counterparts.
Physically, maybe. Software and rules though, that might depend on what you are looking for. Do you want a lot of modes activated on a scoop you have to grind through (and subsequently time out) to get to a wizard mode like in Road Show and Judge Dredd? Do you want to be blocked out of stacking modes into a multiball? WMS games typically have a lot of that. If you want multiball stacking, running multiple modes together (in a meaningful, high-scoring manner), Stern games are the ones you do it on (again, exceptions aside--MB is a great stacking game).
boagman wrote:That being said, there are some absolutely terrific machines that have rolled off the line at Stern...but the statement you made is, in my opinion, too, too generous toward modern Stern machines.
Based on all the machines I have played and dug apart rules-wise, I don't think I am being too generous. We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.
boagman wrote:2. With a 20-year advantage, plus a great increase in technology, *plus* employing some of those same WMS people now, how could they *not* be making deeper software now? I mean, don't misunderstand: good is good, but what the guys are working with *today* as opposed to the level of tech available to them in 1995, don't you think that it's a bit unfair to saddle WMS back then with such a millstone?
Millstone? Not really. In 1995 Sega came up with their Whitestar hardware, which Stern was using all the way up until 2006. As such their games never really innovated or changed past what was current in the mid '90s from a hardware/technical perspective. I'd argue it wasn't even until far more recent Sam system games that the sound packages finally began to match the greatness found in WPC95 machines (Tron, Avatar, etc--exceptions aside as usual, Ripley's from 2004 being a great sounding game with totally original callouts, all running on older hardware).

Having the old WMS employees I think has definitely made a large impact on Stern's games, no doubt, particularly Gomez, Lawlor, Ritchie, and Sheats (him in particular for the rules). Although, that's not to discount guys like Borg who's been with them since the Data East days. His games are some of Stern's best in my opinion, likewise some of the programmers that were never (or barely) with Bally/Williams (Lonnie Ropp, Keith Johnson, etc).
boagman wrote:I can get on board with what you're saying to a degree, as I know what you're trying to say. You're painting with *such* a wide brush, though, that I can't just let it slide by without saying something about it.
Again, I don't feel I'm painting with a very wide brush at all. I appreciate the back and forth though. Pinball threads here don't get a lot of activity, particularly not by people that regularly play the game outside of digital form.
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BrianC
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BrianC »

Stern also makes two models of a lot of games, with the cheaper ones often lacking in features. AC/DC gained a bottom playfied for the deluxe model. I like that version better, but I didn't think the non bottom playfield one was bad either.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by boagman »

BrianC wrote:Stern also makes two models of a lot of games, with the cheaper ones often lacking in features. AC/DC gained a *nearly-completely-useless-and-utterly-forgettable* bottom playfield for the deluxe model. I like that version better, but I didn't think the non bottom playfield one was bad either.
Fixed that for you. ;)

Actually, I kind of did...I put in the "l" you forgot when you first typed "playfield". So there! I actually *was* kind of helpful! ;)
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BPzeBanshee »

Red and Ted's Road Show is hinted as being the next table being worked on according to the Pinball Arcade newsletter hint:

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Going from Farsight's tendency to do new table/old table/new table in terms of era, I'm hoping the last table for this season will be an old Gottlieb like Spirit.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by BrianC »

Most of the time for my pinball fix, I go to Flippers near the outer banks when visting my dad in NC, or to Crab Towne USA in Glen Burnie, MD, the latter of which is much closer. Flippers is especially cool since it has some rare machines like Big Bang Bar and a combination of newer and older machines. It has newer Sterns like Metallica and Star Trek, classics like Addams Family (modded with color DMD), and even some older machines like Centaur and Wizard. Too bad the pinball museum in Baltimore closed.

I used to do one play and move to another machine, but now, I put a few credits in to give machines a good play. I don't consider myself that good, but I somehow made it to wizard mode of Monster Bash (awesome machine, BTW). While I love the rulesets of some 90s machines, I also like the simpler, but often more challenging gameplay of older solid state and EM machines.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by MOSQUITO FIGHTER »

Austin wrote:Due mostly to cost-cutting measures over the years, many Stern games don't have as much going on toys-wise as the Bally/Williams games from the '90s. However, I prefer the Stern games because their rulesets are far deeper than the majority of what Bally/Williams put out in the '90s.

X-Men is a solid game when you know what to do. It has a deep ruleset. It has a ton of tight shots though so if your aim isn't very good, it's going to punish you.

Metallica is excellent. Big risk versus reward payoffs in that game. It wasn't so great though when it was new. It was shallow with not much to do. Now that the game code has been built upon further and polished up, the game is one of Stern's best.
I just thought the Wolverine toy placement on X-Men table wasn't very well integrated into the table. It seemed like this big annoying thing that was placed there just because. It was enough to put me off on it immediately. I'll definitely give it another go if I see it again and explore the ruleset more.

I liked the drop targets on Metallica, but that was the only thing about it that really stood out to me. I admit that I didn't spend much playtime on either table, though. I've had top scores before on quite a few of the tables on pinball arcade before. I was in the the top five on the Fun House leaderboards at one time. But I'll readily admit that real pinball is a very different beast than the digital variety. Especially at $1 a pop.

I bet you would like some of the zen pinball tables. They have some of the deepest rulesets I've encountered in pinball. But I think the physics are seriously lacking on zen pinball. The zen tables for some reason just aren't as much fun to me. I don't care much for the art style on most of their stuff either.
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Re: The Pinball Thread

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

Five new tables are featured in the PS3 and PS Vita platforms of The Pinball Arcade including The Addams Family, Earthshaker, Party Zone, The Phantom of the Opera and Starship Troopers. Yes, I've played all the above listed games at the arcades or at the annual California Extreme show in the past. From what I recall about the Sega produced ST table is, it got a limited production run.

With the Classic Williams pin of Police Force (circa 1989), I've seen it for sale in the price range of $1,300 to $1,700 USD (fully restored to it's former glory) -- back in 1990/1991, I never was able to score the "Five Free Games" deal as shown on the backboard header. I'm not sure if it ever did award that particular feature during the times that I'd play on a real PF machine though (although scoring a random match or earning a reply was a better deal in the end).

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