FALCOM Thread

[drauch]

Damn, surprised nobody gave me crap! Dunno why I was thinking Xak was Falcom. Guess the "run n' bump" mechanic got my brain all mushy. But hey, thanks for the responses!

[Vanguard]

Xanadu Next is on a pretty good discount right not. Do any of y'all recommend it? I love Oath in Felghana and Ys Origin, and this looks to be much the same thing.

[Sumez]

Damn, surprised nobody gave me crap! Dunno why I was thinking Xak was Falcom. Guess the "run n' bump" mechanic got my brain all mushy. But hey, thanks for the responses!

I was actually looking it up and scratching my head. I knew of this game, but I never thought of it as a Falcom game, I even took out my Falcom collections for the Saturn, trying to see if the games were on it. They definitely look like Falcom games, so it could fool anyone.
Turned out the game I was thinking of, which I have, is Fray: Xak Gaiden, also for the PC Engine. A pretty cute mixture of stuff like Ys, Valkyrie No Densetsu and Kiki Kaikai, though not quite as good as either.

[Obscura]

Xanadu Next is on a pretty good discount right not. Do any of y'all recommend it? I love Oath in Felghana and Ys Origin, and this looks to be much the same thing.

Xanadu Next is a really different beast; more about solving traditional dungeon puzzles, a levelling and gear system reminiscent of the Souls games, much slower, much easier.

Not a bad game, but far from my favorite Falcom title.

[drauch]

I love Xanadu Next myself. But yeah, it feels a bit removed from the rest of their catalog and more like a Diablo-clone in a sense, which is right up my alley. A lot more serious in both design and writing as well I'd say.

[EmperorIng]

Damn, surprised nobody gave me crap! Dunno why I was thinking Xak was Falcom. Guess the "run n' bump" mechanic got my brain all mushy. But hey, thanks for the responses!

I figured you knew =)

I suppose I also considered that discussion of a game series that is essentially "Not-Ys" would be kosher in the Falcom thread!

[Sumez]

I had no idea Xanadu Next was an old... NGage game of everything. For some reason I thought it was a "new" game.

[BrianC]

I had no idea Xanadu Next was an old... NGage game of everything. For some reason I thought it was a "new" game.

NGage version is a watered down port and doesn't deserve to be mistaken for the original. The game first came out on PC.

[BulletMagnet]

I'll probably soldier on through at least some more of this simply because I'm such a Falcom fanboy, but this is really sub-par.

Too bad, we're getting it anyway.

[Obscura]

Honestly... I don't recommend buying it. I quit about half-way through; it's a really fucking tedious game that doesn't have much going on, aside from some nice 2D art.

I imagine that XSEED will overhaul the controls, but that won't make the game actually engaging.

[Mischief Maker]

I thought I'd finally get Ys I&II under my belt, but wow did this bump combat age poorly, especially with that FUCKING bat boss!

But I am getting a lot of references from Origins now.

Any tips for that bat swarm boss?

[Obscura]

Vagoullion is a fucking trash boss. There's not much to say about him that you haven't figured out by now -- avoid him when he's mini-bats, try to hit him when he's whole, hope his awful collision detection doesn't fuck you too badly. Hitting him from the sides on his feet is the most consistent angle IME.

[Sumez]

Which version of Ys1&2 are you playing? I've never been unable to immensely enjoy the game. As much as the bump-combat feels absurdly awkward today (and honestly also did back then), I feel that the game is as strong as it's always been.

[Obscura]

I've only played the version on Steam. Ys 1 was OK; the bump combat only annoyed me on some of the shittier bosses. Ys 2 was fucking garabage thanks to changes the port made to the combat system (bumping into an enemy diagonally always results in a "clean hit".

[Sumez]

I was asking Mischief Maker, based on his impression of the games.
But which version is on Steam?

[Obscura]

Chronicles+

[Sumez]

Wow, I really, really liked Chronicles

[Blinge]

Vagoullion is a fucking trash boss. There's not much to say about him that you haven't figured out by now -- avoid him when he's mini-bats, try to hit him when he's whole, hope his awful collision detection doesn't fuck you too badly. Hitting him from the sides on his feet is the most consistent angle IME.

I've only played the version on Steam. Ys 1 was OK; the bump combat only annoyed me on some of the shittier bosses. Ys 2 was fucking garabage thanks to changes the port made to the combat system (bumping into an enemy diagonally always results in a "clean hit".

Haha oh man, you don't know hell until you've fought Vagoullion on Nightmare mode.
I feel like I've posted about this before - I was trying all sorts of tricks like playing the game in a tiny windowed resolution because according to steam forums there's some bullshit on resolution scaling affecting the speed of enemies?!
I wasn't convinced really, couldn't notice a difference.

Getting Dark Fukt on nightmare mode is genuinely hilarious.
That took me ages.

Obscura I'd recommend YS II on nightmare actually, that diagonal thing you mentioned doesn't hold true for most of the enemies n this difficulty iirc. I really had to pick my moments to rush in. The difficulty doesn't increase to absurd busted levels like Ys I either.

[Mischief Maker]

It's the Chronicles + version from gog.

My introduction to the series was Oath so this was a HUGE step down in quality.

The music's nice.

But ultimately I uninstalled. The problem with this bump combat is that every enemy is essentially the same.

[Blinge]

Aw man, should've at least played till the end of II.
I really liked how shit gets real..

Also the anime series for Ys I and II aren't bad. I is way cheesier but II suddenly ramps up the grimdark and it works.

They're short and sweet games to me.

[Sumez]

Yeah, the Ys games are just pure enjoyment to me, but don't expect genius in game design. The original game is a pure grindfest.

The problem with this bump combat is that every enemy is essentially the same.

It absolutely is. I think it's a much bigger problem though, that in the newest Ys game I have played, Memories of Celceta, every enemy is also essentially the same, and that's a game with a much more fleshed out combat system. It's sort of sad how that worked out.

[drauch]

Haven't played the remakes, but I sorta liked the bump n' grind of Books 1 & 2. I hate grinding, which you certainly have to do in those games, but I guess I don't mind it as much since it's so fast-paced, as compared to the tedious nature of turn-based stuff. But I'm also curious if the absence of the killer tunes would make it as bearable...

[Obscura]

Vagoullion is a fucking trash boss. There's not much to say about him that you haven't figured out by now -- avoid him when he's mini-bats, try to hit him when he's whole, hope his awful collision detection doesn't fuck you too badly. Hitting him from the sides on his feet is the most consistent angle IME.

I've only played the version on Steam. Ys 1 was OK; the bump combat only annoyed me on some of the shittier bosses. Ys 2 was fucking garabage thanks to changes the port made to the combat system (bumping into an enemy diagonally always results in a "clean hit".

Haha oh man, you don't know hell until you've fought Vagoullion on Nightmare mode.
I feel like I've posted about this before - I was trying all sorts of tricks like playing the game in a tiny windowed resolution because according to steam forums there's some bullshit on resolution scaling affecting the speed of enemies?!
I wasn't convinced really, couldn't notice a difference.

Getting Dark Fukt on nightmare mode is genuinely hilarious.
That took me ages.

Obscura I'd recommend YS II on nightmare actually, that diagonal thing you mentioned doesn't hold true for most of the enemies n this difficulty iirc. I really had to pick my moments to rush in. The difficulty doesn't increase to absurd busted levels like Ys I either.

Heh, Dark Fact is actually bugged on Chronicles+. Here's how that fight is supposed to look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhBWFjjh3IA

And, of course, here's how it actually looks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOginOZl1Pk

And what's funny is that if you don't have VSync on to force the framerate to a max of 60 FPS, he goes even faster!

[Blinge]

Haha.

That might explain my experience. https://youtu.be/Dq1ulW8iFAc?t=10s

[iconoclast]

Ys 1 is a bad game. Ys 2 is vastly superior in every conceivable way and is a genuinely great game. I still think the first one is worth playing just to see how much they managed to improve the sequel though. It's only like 5 hours long, so it's not much of a chore. But either way, I recommend giving the second game a shot before writing them off completely.

[Hagane]

I played the remade Ys II and it felt too archaic. The hardest boss by a long mile is the first one due to huge hitboxes on Adol, and the rest are pushovers. Puzzles are basic and every puzzle item is used once, so they feel like an afterthought. And enemies are same-y with very little variety, with most change limited to shooting one projectile or maybe two. Magics are unremarkable. It's not terrible, but I don't think it stands the test of time well when things like Felghana exist.

[Obscura]

Haha.

That might explain my experience. https://youtu.be/Dq1ulW8iFAc?t=10s

Holy shit, that video is gold.

"It's go time!"... *Dark Fukt happens* "uh..." *more Dark Fukt happens* "welp".

[Pasokon Deacon]

All these speed issues started when Falcom programmed Ys Eternal improperly, tying animation speeds to the CPU clock. That's why Dark Fact moves way too damn fast in Chronicles+ vs. Eternal on an old Pentium PC or in the PC-88 original. Vagullion's just a boring boss no matter what, and the difficulty spike on Nightmare makes Ys I a pain. I still like the game because of its fun dungeons and world, but the bosses range from decent to junk, and Ys II doesn't improve that a huge amount.

Gotta disagree with bump combat equaling same-y enemies. I usually have a reason to vary where I bump, when I bump, and what attacks to avoid at least when fighting late-game foes.

I love Xanadu Next myself. But yeah, it feels a bit removed from the rest of their catalog and more like a Diablo-clone in a sense, which is right up my alley. A lot more serious in both design and writing as well I'd say.

Calling it a Diablo or Souls clone irks me. The game borrows a lot from Brandish games before it, but also a bit of later Castlevania, Vagrant Story (dem block puzzles), and mid-2000s Ys. The game's serious but still has some funny moments with NPC talk, and it's got Falcom's best final dungeon by a long mile. I always recommend this game whenever it gets a discount; saying it's not "Falcom" or "less Falcom" denies the idea of this simply being another facet of their style which they don't exercise often due to market changes.

I imagine that XSEED will overhaul the controls, but that won't make the game actually engaging.

XSEED specifically mentioned improving all control schemes, including proper gamepad support. I think it'll make the game a lot less of a pain to play, which helps because, once you get past the bad controls, combat's no longer too frantic to keep up with and pacing's better. Zwei!! isn't great, but it's a worthwhile play for anyone seeking a older play-style with Falcom's presentation, humor, and top-tier audiovisuals.

Playing Zwei!! in widescreen was so much more than I ever asked for, let alone getting an official English release.

[Obscura]

I used a Joy2Key profile specifically to make it less stupidly impossible to play, but it was still not engaging. The dungeon crawling is really overly-simplistic, and the boss fights basically boil down to "kite it around and take a lot of pot-shots at it with Pipiro".

[drauch]

I love Xanadu Next myself. But yeah, it feels a bit removed from the rest of their catalog and more like a Diablo-clone in a sense, which is right up my alley. A lot more serious in both design and writing as well I'd say.

Calling it a Diablo or Souls clone irks me. The game borrows a lot from Brandish games before it, but also a bit of later Castlevania, Vagrant Story (dem block puzzles), and mid-2000s Ys. The game's serious but still has some funny moments with NPC talk, and it's got Falcom's best final dungeon by a long mile. I always recommend this game whenever it gets a discount; saying it's not "Falcom" or "less Falcom" denies the idea of this simply being another facet of their style which they don't exercise often due to market changes.

Who calls this a Souls clone? Now that's pretty nutty! It's obviously not a straight up Diablo clone, which is why I said only in a sense, but it's hard to deny that it plays and often looks like one. Saying it's not Falcom or less is a stretch, yeah, but when you look at their catalogue now it stands apart, because they haven't done anything similar since, or really before for that matter, with the closest thing being Brandish, but I'd say that gameplay stands on its own, and it still retains their kind of 'chibi' look, especially in the later PSP game. Dunno why you're not okay with that, but okay comparing it to Castlevania Unless it's just peeve, which then I get!