Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by cools »

Love: bomb fragments.
Hate: unlockable multiplayer modes.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Captain »

TheRedKnight wrote:^ I'm talking about stuff like 360 commands, not LP+LK throws like in some SF games.
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Poor game design/coding
Sometimes, yes.
However, it also serves to constantly keep the player on the edge, wondering what enemy will pop up a step away from him. It can be quite thrilling. I recall there was a Turrican game that made great use of this.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Skykid »

Captain wrote:
Poor game design/coding
Sometimes, yes.
However, it also serves to constantly keep the player on the edge, wondering what enemy will pop up a step away from him. It can be quite thrilling. I recall there was a Turrican game that made great use of this.
If a game needs to corrupt your ability to respond by diminishing your reflex window as a bid for a faux challenge increase, it can't rightfully be applauded or respected. I can't think of one game that had you scrolling right next to the screen perimeter where it felt like a game design plus.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Captain »

It really depends on how its done, we cant argue about it without examples ;)
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

I can't imagine it ever being a positive in a fast-action 2D setting. I can understand, say, a slow-paced horror game deliberately skewing the viewpoint to increase tension at certain points, but that's a world away from the arcades.

Regardless, in Story of Thor/Beyond Oasis it's just a pain in the ass. Enemies have a really generous startup window prior to attacking, assuming they've even noticed you, and on top of that, if you're running you can instantly floor them with a knockdown slash/jumpkick - with few exceptions, a floored enemy is as good as done for. So it doesn't make things particularly difficult. It's just exhausting having to constantly monitor the edges of the screen while simply making your way around the game world.

It's a shame too, as in many regards this game is really fucking good at being a beat 'em up/ARPG hybrid. Presentation is spectacular, the brawling's SORII pedigree shines with enormous crowd rumbles, and there's a lovely sense of contiguous adventure. I can't believe they cocked it up at such a basic mechanical level. I'd have posted this in the MD thread but tbh I'm a little blue, I want to keep my lovely copy. I'd like to try to adjust but I feel like I'd damage myself. :lol:
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Captain »

Generally in games with that kind of movement (also normal RPGS, anything with an overworld) it is most certainly negative.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Skykid »

Captain wrote:It really depends on how its done, we cant argue about it without examples ;)
Go on then.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

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Love walljumps, grappling hooks and anything that lets me navigate the stage in a cool way.

I abhor when a game artificially locks me into a room/space/whatever and won't let me out until all the spawned enemies are killed. Like in Devil May Cry and most other similar 3D action games, but also in the 2D BloodRayne games, for example. It's fine if it's a boss, and it's acceptable if done sparingly, but when almost every encounter with small-time enemies is like this, it's too annoying for me to deal with.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Captain »

Skykid wrote:Go on then.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Herr Schatten »

KindGrind wrote:Hate: When the buttons are mapped the opposite of what a normal human being would use as a control scheme, and you can't change anything. I can't play Alex Kidd in Miracle World...
You don't seem to be the only one. AFAIK, a later version of the game which was built into certain Master System consoles had the button mapping of the original reversed.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

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Nana wrote:Hate: When action games, or any games based on skill, have upgrade systems. Especially if they reward you for failure, so the second time you try something it's easier. Fuck that shit. Most home console roguelikes are guilty of this, and uncomfortably many action games of late too.
I hate this in action games too, but I guess I've learned to accept it. It just comes with the territory. Stuff like unlocking new weapons and moves or extending your health and magic bar in games like DMC is nothing but busywork. The Wonderful 101 is the absolute worst, since you need to find 300~ collectibles to unlock most of the secret characters (most of which are incredibly useful).

Love: New game+. Another reason why Ninja Gaiden II is better than Black.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

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Love: checkpoints. any genre, including STG. checkpoints rule.

Hate: scoring systems with no room for error lest your score gain rate be cut severely.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by CStarFlare »

Love: I almost always love tank controls. I know.

Hate: Tutorials.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Ruldra »

CStarFlare wrote:Hate: Tutorials.
I don't mind tutorials if they're separate from the main game. But I love if it's a special mode where it works both as a tutorial and as a way to test your skills (VR training in MGS and Training mode in Lost Planet 2 comes to mind). Forced tutorials in the main game can go die in a fire though.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Nana »

CStarFlare wrote: Hate: Tutorials.

True dat.

I also can't stand when games have multiple cutscenes interrupting gameplay, or "special moves" that activate an unskippable cutscene when performed.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

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Hate: any kind of 'protect' mission. Particularly when it's a suicidally stupid AI character.

Love: bonus rounds, particularly one where the objective is to destroy as much stuff as possible.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Captain wrote:
Skykid wrote:Go on then.
grumpy face
So far you've named one Turrican game. Which probably would've been better with scrolling centered on the character.

Scrolling that's way too far to the side (more than just slightly to center) is a horrible thing. Always. Especially in Run 'n Guns where enemy pop-in easily gets you killed. It's also annoying in older/badly made shmups where you have to move super far to naturally scroll the screen as opposed to the screen scrolling with you naturally based on position in more modern shmups (Eschatos, Futari, Strania, etc).

Hate: bombs that have no immediate protection. It's annoying in Raiden to have to memorize where to bomb proactively because you're not protected when you hit the button. Akuu Gallet's Thunder Drive bomb is infinitely better, because you get immediate protection (even if it's just a split-second shield around your ship) before the delayed bomb blast appears, so it's a lot safer to use on reaction.

Love: games that give you a ton of different weaponry all at once when you're fully powered up. Rapid Hero, Raiga Strato Fighter apply, as well as some older DOS games like Raptor and Tyrian.

Hate: games that severely depower you on a death with recovery that's basically impossible. Raiga Strato Fighter falls in this category. At max power, you can rip through stuff, but die once, and your main weapon is too weak to deal with many sections (especially in the last stage), your speed is too slow, and recovery is impossible without dying repeatedly because powerups are often far apart (you can build up a large stock of lives, but die at the wrong section and it's no unusual to lose 5 lives in a row or get a gameover just from one death). There's a lot of checkpoint shmups with nicer recoveries out there than this game (which is a shame because it's an awesome game otherwise).
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

Love: judiciously applied invincible frames during evasion or attack. When done right they can enhance the fluidity of any game, 2D or 3D. Shinobi III, Actraiser 2 and Silent Hill 4 are some of my favourite examples.

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^doing it right

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^doing it wrong

Frothing despise: Action games that give a damaged player neither hitstun nor recovery time. Feels nasty and tatty and leads to enemies just rubbing themselves all over you being a bigger threat than their attacks (The Killing Game Show).
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by trap15 »

BIL wrote:Frothing despise: Action games that give a damaged player neither hitstun nor recovery time. Feels nasty and tatty and leads to enemies just rubbing themselves all over you being a bigger threat than their attacks (The Killing Game Show).
Generally a sign of a shitty game and/or shitty programming anyways. It takes a non-trivial amount of effort to code in hit-stun/recovery time/push back, but any decent programmer or developer realizes this is worth the work.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

Absolutely one of the major red flags when roadtesting a game. That was where I dunked TKGS's ROM in the recycle bin. It's not a game without its good points either. Image
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Unskippables are of course a cardinal sin anyway
Not gameplay related, but it's also annoying to see people complain about cutscenes being unskippable when they are actually skippable (and not in an obtuse way; the game and/or manual tell you specifically how to skip cutscenes). I've seen this complaint applied to Bayonetta and Vanquish on GameFAQs (all cutscenes are skippable on a new game except a few short ones with quick time events).
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Captain »

The killing game show is a bad game...show.

Love: Games that make you play a tutorial without you even noticing it, and it has to be failable.

Like: Controlling more than one "thing" at the same time, even better if you dont have direct control over anything but influence it alot (mega man 2, R-type, Gradius)

Hate: The eternal occurrence there being someone class/character/whatever that is preferred over the others.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

Captain wrote:Like: Controlling more than one "thing" at the same time
Ya!

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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Despatche »

love: pretty much anything i don't hate, because i can't think of anything in particular
hate: block buttons, giving out even more points for getting things like perfect health/destruction rate, failing to use pause+restart, the beat em up tradition of giving you two lives by default, unskippable cutscenes of course, various other things i'm forgeting (edit: three bullet shot limits as opposed to say four)

related loves: songs that are tied to intro (more common) or stage length (for forced scrolling; very rare), extensive animation regardless of sprite size (mazinsaga), graphics that are colorful and stylish over realistic in more "serious" games (g.i. joe: the atlantis factor)
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Formless God »

Hate: Things briefly freezing in place when a collision occurs. Just put more effort into animating the damn flinch.
Hate: Items that flash to a different state every once in a while. Bonus points if it's Psikyo.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

I tend to really like it when 2D action games let you change direction during an attack's active frames, with it completing as normal. For example, Spartan X:
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(note the extra points - it's not for the snap turnaround, it's for taking out more than one enemy with a single attack)

Nice and smooth. Full disclosure though, it's not quite an "always love" thing! :O Obviously aesthetic/mechanical context matters. Thomas's lightning-quick strikes can be wrapped around with wiry grace; he can easily KO three foes on alternating sides with one deftly-timed snap. Dracula X's whip allows you to change direction/stance during its startup frames, as an emergency correction - beyond those though, you're committed, as befits the traditional series' methodical medieval murder gear ethos. Gigantic Army's stupendously violent pilebunker can't be redirected at all, nor should it be; it's an explosion of concentrated piercing force in a game where momentum is intrinsic. Generally though, if there are no such concerns I love the finesse enabled.

Here's a decided "always hate" one though: 2D action games where an attack's active frames are nullified after initial contact with a target. Even in otherwise top-flight games like Shatterhand, it stinks! God damn! In 2D context, if I've got two or more foes clocked and hit 'em square, I should score the hits. Otherwise (as in SH) you get situations where enemies can simply barge into an attacking player while their buddies take one for the team. Annoying!
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Vludi »

BIL wrote:Love: judiciously applied invincible frames during evasion or attack. When done right they can enhance the fluidity of any game, 2D or 3D. Shinobi III, Actraiser 2 and Silent Hill 4 are some of my favourite examples.
I think you will like this run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Pqv1_L4hQ. Great use of blocking, projectile cancels, i-frames and damage by contact that are otherwise trivial when playing normally.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by BIL »

Holy shit, that Round 5.2 car technique. :shock: Would never have guessed that was possible in a million years - it's pretty easy to pull off, too!

I knew about damaging the R4 brain via blocking - used it in my current replay - but had no idea about killing the R6 boss's bats the same way. This is incidentally another mechanic I love - treating smaller, pesky enemies as projectiles that'll snuff on contact with shields. Legend of Hero Tonma does this (at least in its PCE port - haven't played the AC original).

Great replay. :smile: Particularly loved his luring Godzilla in close for flame guard and a katana right across the back of the neck, and evading the last boss's flying barnet of doom perfectly every time. I think I see where I've been going wrong now, on the latter... seems the idea to jump away assuming a low throw, and doublejump if he tries to anti-air you. In my runs I rely way more on good fortune than I should.

The jumping sword stuff was spectacular. It's a mightily satisfying weapon even in normal play, with the total invincibility and massive hitbox shredding absolutely anything and everything in Joe's reach (the antithesis of annoying "one hitter quitter" attacks). Some of the stuff he does reminds me of the swordplay in Shinobi III's secret 6-button mode.

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I still wouldn't change ROS's three button system, though - it's undeniably a bit rigid at first, but it's satisfying as hell figuring out how to deploy Joe's full dominating potential. It's like Castlevania 1's weightily methodical action with a crazy doublejumping, blocking, i-framing ninja moveset.

Have you played Shinobi Legions/X/Shinobi Den (Saturn)? As goofy as it looks, and despite some slightly slack handling, I love how it uses Shinobi III's 6-button mode as its foundation. Blocking on reaction, separate shuriken/sword buttons, and a couple really cool innovations like the somersault katana and projectile deflection (which stronger enemies can do, too)... if it had the same killer near-future style and razor sharp sprites of the prior two games, I'm sure it'd be more fondly regarded. I totally consider it The Super Shinobi III as-is.
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Durandal »

Hate: Games restarting on a game over rather than asking you to retry at the nearest save point
Hate: non-arcade games not granting you a checkpoint before a boss
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Re: Game Mechanics you always love, and always hate

Post by Xyga »

Hate: powerups that immediately go to the top of the screen and stay there forever before bouncing to the bottom.
Hate: like Formless God; Items that flash to a different state every once in a while, whether it's powerups or point items.
Hate: stupid useless zero-level weaponry that can't even kill popcorn enemies, or enemies with too high HP for even mid-level power weapons.
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