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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:21 am 


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Shatterhand wrote:
SoR 3 was a lot harder. SoR 1 was a little bit harder too.


I think 1 is probably the most difficult, on defaults SoR3 is VERY easy to 1cc as long as you're playing the Japanese original. Easier than 2. I did it very recently on my second attempt.

We all know the western localisation is screwed up and starts out on unfair difficulty.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:38 am 


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Bare Knuckle 3 > Streets of Rage 3

One of the most disappointing localisation in gaming history.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:11 am 



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Skykid wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:
SoR 3 was a lot harder. SoR 1 was a little bit harder too.


I think 1 is probably the most difficult, on defaults SoR3 is VERY easy to 1cc as long as you're playing the Japanese original. Easier than 2. I did it very recently on my second attempt.

We all know the western localisation is screwed up and starts out on unfair difficulty.


To be honest, BKIII is an easy 1CC no matter what setting you have it on, thanks in part to the spammable specials, especially with Blaze's which has ridiculous active frames. It tends to kill the enemy management aspect a lot. Not sure if BKIII has a Mania mode to compensate. I've never tried with Eddie or Doctor Zan since I think they suck :)

This is why I still think the first two games are the best, hands down. BKIII needed more time in the oven for sure.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:32 am 


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^ Yes I agree with all. The thing is BK3 has the best and most refined combat system, you can mix it up so much more and it's a lot more flexible, especially with weapons, dodge rolls and specials on refill. The issue is as you said, too easy on all modes - and the music is a step down, which doesn't help, and the locales lack diversity and character.

I know SoR remix allows you to tailor the combat system, but I'd really love to just take SoR3's combat straight into SoR 2's hardest mode. That would be a helluva party.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:42 am 


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I can't remember if I played BK3 or SoR3, but don't you have like 3 minutes to take away 9 lifebars from the final boss? Even on default settings it looked like an impossible task at the time. Especially since the boss keeps moving all over the place.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:05 pm 



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Ruldra wrote:
I can't remember if I played BK3 or SoR3, but don't you have like 3 minutes to take away 9 lifebars from the final boss? Even on default settings it looked like an impossible task at the time. Especially since the boss keeps moving all over the place.


That's gotta be the Western version, I don't remember anything that dramatic in BKIII.

I couldn't beat the timer on the poison gas section where you have to rescue the military guy on the harder difficulties though.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:49 pm 


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Yes that is the last boss but he's so unbelievably easy on BK3 it's embarrassing. One simple timed jump kick exploit and he's caught in a loop that sees him off real quick.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:23 pm 


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I don't know why so many people are stuck on the older games so much. The genre got soooo much better after games like The Punisher. Playing Final Fight (or Bare Knuckle) today when you have stuff like AvsP, Shadow Over Mystara, Armored Warriors or Denjin Makai 2 is like playing Street Fighter 1 when you have ST, Accent Core or KOF XIII. For the time it was released it was great indeed, but now there's no reason to play it other than nostalgia. And it's a terrible way to get into the genre as it can give you a very wrong idea of these games in general.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:15 am 


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Yeah but dat Metro City Slums theme tho....

This isn't my beginning in the genre actually, I played Scott Pilgrim to death and have Castle Crashers also.
Might check out River City Ransom ahead of the kickstarted sequel coming out too
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:04 am 


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I don't wanna derail this from Final Fight, but since people are talking about other games, personally a beat em up I'd recommend trying for a 1cc is either Knights of the Round or The King of Dragons.

Both games are pretty easy to pick up, but have a really satisfying blocking mechanic that makes the game feel a bit more flexible and less demanding in terms of ai or pattern memorization. Especially King of Dragons which is more forgiving early on and has more of an emphasis on reacting to telegraphed enemy attacks than it does outspacing enemies all the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:53 am 


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Squire Grooktook wrote:
a beat em up I'd recommend trying for a 1cc is either Knights of the Round or The King of Dragons.


I don't know what's up with the blocking in Knights of Round, but talk about a difficult move to do consistently. I think you only have a small number of frames to do that move, because I find myself screwing up all the time and getting hit stupidly. In any case, KoR is a very tough game to 1cc and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

King of Dragons on the other hand is incredibly easy. You don't even need to bother with blocking as the Wizard is the best character in the game. Early on you want to point-blank enemies for maximum damage with the staff, and once you get the multi-hit staves you can go back to attacking from a distance. Late-game he's a powerhouse and take very little damage from hits.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:09 am 


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Ruldra wrote:
Squire Grooktook wrote:
a beat em up I'd recommend trying for a 1cc is either Knights of the Round or The King of Dragons.


I don't know what's up with the blocking in Knights of Round, but talk about a difficult move to do consistently. I think you only have a small number of frames to do that move, because I find myself screwing up all the time and getting hit stupidly. In any case, KoR is a very tough game to 1cc and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners.

King of Dragons on the other hand is incredibly easy. You don't even need to bother with blocking as the Wizard is the best character in the game. Early on you want to point-blank enemies for maximum damage with the staff, and once you get the multi-hit staves you can go back to attacking from a distance. Late-game he's a powerhouse and take very little damage from hits.


Well there are two ways of blocking in KOR actually. You can either press back + hold attack to do a manual block, which you can hold up for a pretty lengthy period in case you predict an attack. Or you can simple press back as an attack is about to hit ala KoD. The former is good for prediction and planning, and the latter is for reaction and improvisation. Knowing about both made the game a lot more playable and enjoyable for me. I do agree it's very challenging, but it has some nicely rewarding mechanics that IMO make it a far more addictive introduction to the genre than something more grindy and slow.

As for KoD, in the arcade version at least it's actually quite a solid challenge if you play the melee classes (I don't know why anyone would want to play a ranged class with no melee in a beat em up, let alone one that makes the game too easy. Just don't pick wizard or elf imo), with some of the later bosses putting up a helluva fight. Setting the dip switches to the hardest difficulty also makes for an excellent master course where enemy frequency and aggressiveness is upgraded by a large margin. The only thing I truly don't like about the game is that it's way too long (no doubt to make it feel like an adventure, but it's problematic for pacing in an arcade game methinks).
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:10 am 



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Haggar's piledriver, the damage it does is based on the enemy's remaining health: cuts it in half each time. Perfect for ending bosses quickly. It's a game changer.

Often you can chain a bunch of them together too.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 am 



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Chain them? As in catch the victim before he's done falling from the first driver and repeat?


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:49 am 


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Final Fight is currently handing me my ass. Like someone above stated, half the time I'm genuinely not certain what it is I'm supposed to have done wrong, and the penalty for making a mistake is harsh. It's more of a game that I remember fondly from childhood rather than anything I'd ever try and seriously master, though I wasn't aware of a few of the tricks mentioned in this thread, so will try it with those in mind. There's definitely something about it though, for all that Capcom have refined more balanced, nuanced and playable titles, there something bout the visceral nature of FF than remains almost unmatched.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:22 pm 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
Chain them? As in catch the victim before he's done falling from the first driver and repeat?


lmao no obviously not, chain as in the piledriver grants you iframes so you can just spam and he'll immediately keep piledriving whoevers next in line in the herd. understanding haggars iframes is the key to 1ccing with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:38 pm 


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Are you confusing his piledriver with normal throw (suplex)?

I thought the key to a Haggar 1cc (along with grouping eneies through his back jump attack) is 2 punches, then normal throw, and repeat. After his normal throw he has invincible frames, which allow him to grab whoever's next.

I don't think it works that way with the piledriver, as you have to grapple them first, then press jump. You can't combo into it.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:12 pm 


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I'm usually not that guy, which means I'm going to be:D

Final Fight advice - play SOR Remake instead. Sorry, couldn't resist.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:47 pm 


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Marc wrote:
Final Fight is currently handing me my ass. Like someone above stated, half the time I'm genuinely not certain what it is I'm supposed to have done wrong, and the penalty for making a mistake is harsh. It's more of a game that I remember fondly from childhood rather than anything I'd ever try and seriously master, though I wasn't aware of a few of the tricks mentioned in this thread, so will try it with those in mind. There's definitely something about it though, for all that Capcom have refined more balanced, nuanced and playable titles, there something bout the visceral nature of FF than remains almost unmatched.


Besides following the advise given in this thread (Ex_Mosquito's post is pretty damn spot on), watching video's of someone clearing it with the character you decide to play as will absolutely help you. You learn how to deal with specific patterns/groups of enemies in the game, plus, it gives you a good idea how to tackle the bosses effectively, which is key early on. Best to save those resources for later patterns and spots that give you trouble.

Also like Ex_Mosquito said, memorizing the enemy patterns and when they appear is a big part to learning the game. Much like shmups, knowing what comes next is very helpful!

Indeed, the penalties for making mistakes is harsh, but once you learn the spots where you get guaranteed health you can use that to your advantage. Try not to overly rely on the area's where the food drops are random, as there's a few of them (for example, see the Subway).

The game does require you to learn how to play it as in knowing how your attacks work on specific enemies/groups of enemies, what enemy attacks you need to really pay attention to and how to handle them (hint, early on just use your super, it's gonna cost you less health), where you have iframes, how to correctly grab enemies, and what direction you face after using a throw is crucial. Especially as crowd control is huge in this game. But, once you understand the basics, the game starts opening up in a way that gives you a number of options depending on what the enemies are doing (as they certainly like to misbehave). You'll eventually find that you can play certain sections in nearly a free style way and have fun with them when you have the life to spare, or play conservatively (basically deadly, lol) when you need to hang on to your resources. You can even play it for score if you get that into it!

It's a phenomenal game for a reason. ;)
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:28 pm 


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I wonder if Blinge got the 1cc during these years.

I'm currently trying to 1cc Cadillacs & Dinosaurs with Hannah Dundee, as I've done already with the other three characters. She's difficult, specially against 2 slisaurs


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:37 pm 


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After all these years, the advice still holds strong: don't play Final Fight.

If you want something oldschool, go for Punisher, Captain Commando, or Cadillacs. If you want to play the games that took the genre to new heights, play Alien vs. Predator, Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow over Mystara or Armored Warriors. Final Fight is archaic and doesn't hold up at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:08 pm 



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Hagane wrote:
After all these years, the advice still holds strong: don't play Final Fight.

If you want something oldschool, go for Punisher, Captain Commando, or Cadillacs. If you want to play the games that took the genre to new heights, play Alien vs. Predator, Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow over Mystara or Armored Warriors. Final Fight is archaic and doesn't hold up at all.

Come on stop lying now :)
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:36 pm 


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Hagane wrote:
After all these years, the advice still holds strong: don't play Final Fight.

If you want something oldschool, go for Punisher, Captain Commando, or Cadillacs. If you want to play the games that took the genre to new heights, play Alien vs. Predator, Dungeons and Dragons: Shadow over Mystara or Armored Warriors. Final Fight is archaic and doesn't hold up at all.

My advice is don't play Captain Commando. It's archaic despite being 2 years younger and doesn't hold up at all. Final Fight is much better.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:32 pm 


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Hagane wrote:
After all these years, the advice still holds strong: don't play Final Fight on SNES.


fixed


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:14 am 


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Stevens wrote:
I'm usually not that guy, which means I'm going to be:D

Final Fight advice - play SOR Remake instead. Sorry, couldn't resist.


why because its easy and offers no challenge on any difficulty bar mania? they don't even play remotely similar in any way.


Leviathan wrote:
Are you confusing his piledriver with normal throw (suplex)?

I thought the key to a Haggar 1cc (along with grouping eneies through his back jump attack) is 2 punches, then normal throw, and repeat. After his normal throw he has invincible frames, which allow him to grab whoever's next.

I don't think it works that way with the piledriver, as you have to grapple them first, then press jump. You can't combo into it.


I meant suplex however the piledriver also grants you iframes to start another attack after.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:41 pm 


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poptart wrote:
why because its easy and offers no challenge on any difficulty bar mania? they don't even play remotely similar in any way.


I wasn't at all referring to the difficulty, it is just a far better game by every measure. I don't understand the love that it gets.

Since I fired first shots and don't want to derail further - serious question: why do people like it so much?
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:17 pm 


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It's a flawed game, but it's not without it's charm. I like the character designs, the large sprites and even the gameplay. It's challenging and feels cheap at times, but it's fun. Nolstagia plays a part too, I'm sure, as does the game's undoubted importance for the beat em up genre. Will it make my top 5 games in the genre? Probably not. But that doesn't mean I wont play it and enjoy it for what it is.

SoRR is certainly fun too, and amazing accomplishment. Though it's a little unfair to compare the two games given the different eras they were born.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:24 pm 


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Leviathan wrote:
It's a flawed game, but it's not without it's charm. I like the character designs, the large sprites and even the gameplay. It's challenging and feels cheap at times, but it's fun. Nolstagia plays a part too, I'm sure, as does the game's undoubted importance for the beat em up genre. Will it make my top 5 games in the genre? Probably not. But that doesn't mean I wont play it and enjoy it for what it is.

SoRR is certainly fun too, and amazing accomplishment. Though it's a little unfair to compare the two games given the different eras they were born.


Thanks. These are all fair points.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:25 pm 


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This thread needs more Technos.

Lots of advice "don't play that, play this instead" but still no one saying things straight: Final Fight with its big sprites came and won the hearts of gamers, but anything Technos had done before / was doing in that moment was actually more substantial / more technical / overall better.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:59 pm 


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It's interesting that even one of the first bmu's, kunio, has dashing and bike riding enemies. Kunio/Renegade is good stuff.


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