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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:42 pm 


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Wow I shall enjoy watching that when I'm home from work :)

I suck hard at this game and I've been playing it in one form or another since I was about 11, the SNES version is easy enough to 1CC, but the Arcade with greater enemy numbers and the extra level (which actually I wouldn't have cared if it had been left out of every version, the boss is awful and that fire at the beginning arggghh). Been getting back into it myself recently thanks to the Sega CD version, have the proper arcade version on the PS4 too.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:57 pm 


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To everyone who has managed to 1CC'ed Final Fight, what kind of settings are you playing the game on? I usually set the game to two lives at start and a single extend, which is actually the factory settings for the CPS version, but most ports and emulated versions of the game has the extends set to every 200,000 points by default. I'm good enough to reach the second area of Uptown on just three lives, but usually get overwhelmed by that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:03 pm 


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EVN wrote:
I am thinking that Poison hit me out of the grapple but the way Haggar went down like he was picking something up was weird and it was bugging the crap out of me. I felt like I got a concession - something this game never gives.


It kind of looks that way to me too, had something similar happen to me on a recent credit and I know it couldn't have used button 3 as I deactivated it. And nice job on the 1CC btw. 8)

Edit: Ah found it, skip to 28:40. I threw a Simons just before Abigail grabbed me, and the throw knocked me out of the grab. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/475645054

Jonny2x4 wrote:
To everyone who has managed to 1CC'ed Final Fight, what kind of settings are you playing the game on? I usually set the game to two lives at start and a single extend, which is actually the factory settings for the CPS version, but most ports and emulated versions of the game has the extends set to every 200,000 points by default. I'm good enough to reach the second area of Uptown on just three lives, but usually get overwhelmed by that point.


All defaults (one life to start, and one extend at 100K), no button 3, no using infinite punches or autofire. Sounds like the ports screwed that part up, I've also heard some of the ports/emulation are missing slowdown as well so it doesn't surprise me.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:23 pm 



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bigbadboaz wrote:
Leviathan wrote:
Really? That's interesting and the first time I read that.


Yeah, I wouldn't agree with that at all. The arcade DDs are certainly flawed in retrospect, but as with most games of the time, they shat all over their respective home ports. DD1 in particular didn't just disappoint with the lack of 2P action - the fighting was stiff and with little sense of impact.


I was obsessed with Double Dragon as a kid. My view is that the Master System version was the best home port even though it wasn't the most arcade perfect. It was way ahead of the Amiga, Atari ST and Nes versions. The Genesis / Megadrive version looked the most faithful but suffered from the baddies not attacking with the same enthusiasm as the coin-op. I.e. It was way too easy for a $50 cart.

Final Fight is a much better game but you'd expect that as it came out years later.

Double Dragon Neon on the PS3 is one of the better HD remakes IMO. You have to play it with a proper (digital) arcade stick to get the best out of it but it's been growing on me lately. It has a far greater range of moves and slightly more depth than the original coin-op.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:18 am 


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STG wrote:
It kind of looks that way to me too, had something similar happen to me on a recent credit and I know it couldn't have used button 3 as I deactivated it. And nice job on the 1CC btw. 8)

Edit: Ah found it, skip to 28:40. I threw a Simons just before Abigail grabbed me, and the throw knocked me out of the grab. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/475645054


Thanks man, glad it's not just me that weird stuff happens to :)

STG wrote:
All defaults (one life to start, and one extend at 100K), no button 3, no using infinite punches or autofire. Sounds like the ports screwed that part up, I've also heard some of the ports/emulation are missing slowdown as well so it doesn't surprise me.


There's a dude who just uploaded a score on TG who infinite punches some of the bosses down. Not sure how I feel about it really, on one hand I don't think it's the best scoring strat, on the other I think it really lowers the skill required to progress through the game. I kinda feel that Final Fight is a pretty lame game to play for score since the only real way to get more points is alchemy and the knife trick on Belger. 1CC was my goal.

Jonny2x4 wrote:
To everyone who has managed to 1CC'ed Final Fight, what kind of settings are you playing the game on? I usually set the game to two lives at start and a single extend, which is actually the factory settings for the CPS version, but most ports and emulated versions of the game has the extends set to every 200,000 points by default.


I am playing normal difficulty 1, normal difficulty 2 and 1 extend at 100k. I actually show the DIP switches in my run because it was for TG.

The default settings on the Capcom Beat em up bundle are messed up.

I can't figure out what "difficulty 2" even does? I assume it's like some kind of rank system. Haven't seen any documentation explaining it anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:17 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
I was obsessed with Double Dragon as a kid. My view is that the Master System version was the best home port even though it wasn't the most arcade perfect. It was way ahead of the Amiga, Atari ST and Nes versions.


I preferred the NES version over the SMS one, but I always view it as its own game anyway (as I do with the NES versions of II and III) since it doesn't try to replicate the arcade game on a lower-end hardware. Never liked how the knockout/grab attacks worked in the SMS version. It makes you rely too much on a hit and run strategy. The hit detection is pretty inconsistent too. I always find it hilarious when your character and enemy do a jump kick at the same time, the damage isn't registered until both characters land on the ground. With that said, the SMS version is probably better than the Atari 2600/78000 versions or whatever the 8-bit PC ports were supposed to be.

EVN wrote:
I can't figure out what "difficulty 2" even does? I assume it's like some kind of rank system. Haven't seen any documentation explaining it anywhere.

From my understanding, Difficulty A changes the overall difficulty, while Difficulty B affects the dynamic difficulty. Some editor at TCRF has been trying to figure out the difficulty settings work for the SNES version and more or less determined that's how Difficulty B works, but it's not fully taken advantage of in that version, since the SNES port has limited credits (which probably explains why they reduced the number of difficulty settings to just four settings for the GUY version).
https://tcrf.net/Notes:Final_Fight_(SNES)#Difficulty_System


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:50 am 


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I figured I would give Punisher a go after what has been said about it here.

I agree that this is a pretty good beginner beat 'em up. Got my first clear after about 3 weeks worth of playing it. Final Fight took more like 4 1/2 months. I barely even did any save state learning on Punisher, just a bit for Bonebreaker and Kingpin whereas for Final Fight I put in hours and hours. Perhaps the Final Fight experience helped some with this title though I guess.

Punisher can be cheesed if all you want to do is 1CC, you have so many good tools with the dash, super, weapons, gun and bombs. It is also way more generous with food drops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4TxejTehT0

Lots of lucky moments in this run but the three nights leading up to this run I got up to Kingpin and died three times.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:47 pm 


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Speaking of Bonebreaker, kind of weird that they just tossed a random minor X-Men villain in there. I guess the Reavers did fight the Punisher at some point, though.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:29 pm 



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Figured out how to Livestream PS4 to YouTube finally :lol: This was a meh ff run but I'll link it for y'all anyway.

https://youtu.be/cmiG5UEtbRk


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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:03 am 



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I recently 1-CC'ed Warriors of Fate. I am posting here just to bump the thread (and get updates from it), but if anyone cares I will post some impressions.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:17 am 


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Randorama wrote:
I recently 1-CC'ed Warriors of Fate. I am posting here just to bump the thread (and get updates from it), but if anyone cares I will post some impressions.

Please do.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:41 am 



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BurlyHeart wrote:
Randorama wrote:
I recently 1-CC'ed Warriors of Fate. I am posting here just to bump the thread (and get updates from it), but if anyone cares I will post some impressions.

Please do.


OK, I am posting some very quick comments while also working (ahem!).

I generally feel that the game designers wanted an updated version of Final Fight, since the game heavily hinges on the 2-punch and throw combo.

The pace is rather slow, and most stages involve non-trivial amounts of lesser and bigger zakos with quite a bit of energy. All enemies and characters seem to be slower than e.g. Haggar in Final Fight.

The pace actually reminds me of the Romance of the three kingdoms epic on which the game is based, and which mostly focuses on fights of various scales and intensity (...a lot: a precursor of battle manga?).

Random digression aside:

Bosses have in general tons of energy and are supported by tons of zakos, so boss battles invariably feel to me like long, drawn-out brawls focusing on attrition. It does not help that a general strategy (avoid boss' attacks, and then combo him) can be applied to each boss. This is easier said than done, as the numbers of zakos are staggering, from St 6 onwards.

The move sets are wider than FF (but no dashing like in Captain Commando) and there is a good amount of variation. I mostly play(ed) with "Portor", i.e. the first character on the left, in the select screen. He has a down-up charge move that can be used to various effects. two other characters have weapons, and matching move sets. This guy can also do something like a headbutt attack that partially works like a dash attack, even though it is slow (like the rest of the moves...).

I never tried the other characters beyond a few credits, and I have seen replays in which people punch through the game with the sword guy (pun intended), abusing a sword-based combo to silly levels. So, speed may be heavily dependant on how one approaches the game and level of skill (true of any of the Capcom brawlers?).

This is not to say that I did not enjoy the game, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered with a 1-CC (there was some shouting along the way, though...). There is a certain pleasure derived from being able to do crowd-control on, at times, dozens of enemies. It is just that the game is rather long (1 hour for a slow 1-CC?), so it may be sapping, stamina-wise (it was for me).

I would add that I find the horse hard to use. This is a mechanic that they tried to re-interpret from Dynasty Wars, the previous title in the series, but somehow it seems not to work very well (or I am simply useless at it). You can attack on both sides but attacking backwards is generally sluggish, so you are prone to hits. I avoid it even on St 1. That's a shame, as I really liked Dynasty Wars.

EDIT: auto-fire is your friend. Item drop heavily relies on this, punches seem to have a longer range and so does the throwing command, and under the right conditions boss fights may involve good amounts of extra energy.

I recently also 1-LC'ed Alien vs. Predator and I would say that Warriors of Fate is more difficult, but not exceedingly so. I often felt that having all enemies on one side and throwing zakos against other zakos solves 95% of the situations. If this comment motivates a "duh, all Capcom brawlers work like this", then I would confirm the trend.

The st 9 boss is a nightmare, though: he is very fast and agressive and the amount of zakos is staggering. I one-lifed until the boss, dropped two lives and killed him on the last life. The final stage is you pummeling Cao Cao, and a bad ending if you fail to do so. Cute!

Please let me know what I could add on top of these loose observations.

EDIT x2: I had another 1-CC that went roughly like the first one. I would also say that being with the back against the wall is an advantage. There are no enemies that are really dangerous once you "turtle" in a corner, although some jumping attacks may be still a threat (the big wrestlers can do those). Characters have good anti-air moves, so it only takes a bit of practice to learn "turtling".
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:55 pm 


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Very nice, thanks for sharing! I haven't played the game too seriously. I really should dig into the Capcom Belt Action Collection more, given how much I was looking forward to the game.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:42 am 



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No worries at all.

I believe that this game is quite fun when played in 2 or 3, as it becomes a giant ongoing brawl due to the sheer number of enemies. I played the Saturn port many moons ago with friends, and I remember having a nice time, even if with a few "where is my sprite?" moments. Please forgive me for being lazy, but I imagine that both on youtube and youku there will be plenty of replays, too.

Now I am wondering if Dynasty Wars belongs to this thread or the platform thread. I am cross-posting to find out.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:50 pm 


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Randorama, thanks for sharing.

This post inspired me to play the game again for the first time in maybe 4 years (I cleared it about five years ago).

Did you find yourself using the horses often, if at all? (EDIT: you avoided horses)

I couldn't remember the backward throw command for the horse, so I just stopped using it after stage one. Perhaps use of the horse isn't as vital as I previously thought (I remember the forward throw command is down + attack, forward, at least with Chou-Un. I can't remember whether horse commands are character specific. I used to know of a website in Japanese that lists every command in the game, but I can't find it).

Anyway, I did two runs, and my second run ended in the cavern section of stage 8 (I got a time-over).

I also, failed to get the sword dropped via killing the horse rider for the stage 6 boss fight, and the flaming sword for the stage 7 boss fight, and I faired just fine (neither of my deaths occurred here).

In short, it was a pleasant surprise to find myself not relying on the "secret" bells and whistles that have helped carry me through in the past. I'm assuming you hadn't relied on any of them yourself?
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:56 am 



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andsuchisdeath, no worries!

Quick post: I generally found the horse command moves too sluggish, so I gave up using it very early on. In fact, I never learnt to use the horse in Knights of the Round, too, and I may have followed a similar pattern across different games and genres.

For the secret swords: I generally fail(ed) to activate them (better: success rate was at most 5% or so), so I deal(ed) with bosses bare-handed, which is ultimately not so difficult once you can handle zakos (...ok, not an easy task).

I am not too sure that they may make a player's life easier, because I also generally found weapons a bit hard to use. There is a certain sluggishness in reaction time that constantly throws me off when using them, so I quickly opted them out when learning the game.

It seems to me that the programmers designed weapons and horse fighting as alternative strategies on how to approach the game, but there is something about the pacing that they create in the flow of the game that really makes them hard to use for me.

I need to say that this is a very common habit that I have developed "across the genre", unless we are talking about games in which characters start with blunt weapons (e.g. AvsP, and obviously the first Dynasty Wars/Tenchi wo Kurao). Case in point, I generally found Lynn Kurosawa in AvsP really difficult to learn using, and The Punisher's gun sections really tricky (!).

The only exception I can think of is Double Dragon Advance, and even in that title I mostly use whips and chains (three cheers for BDSM!). In general, optional attacks with different attack speeds/rates tend to throw me off, and this has been the case since...well, 1987 or so (!!!). Once I get used to "body blows" hit/reaction times, I get stuck on them, simply put.

Do you guys ever experience similar problems?
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:19 pm 


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Well, I think use of both the horse and weapons can make the player's life much easier once a player is experienced enough with them to reap their rewards (so yeah, they're not crutches).

I've found most of the weapons that don't cause a knockdown to be problematic (with the exception of the hammer). I do agree that the use of weapons alter the pacing of the game, and it can be hard at times to make that cognitive shift (thankfully it's rarely ever on the fly. Weapon placement, is relatively predictable).

Of course, the game is clear-able without use of either the horse or weapons, so yes, you could call these alternative strategies.

Regarding the last part of your post, I can't say for sure that I experience similar problems, but in AVP I've only been able to clear the game with Predator Warrior. I've yet to become comfortable with wielding the tools that make Linn Kurosawa such an effective character (through I very much want to get there soon!).

Yeah I find the Punisher's gun sections not totally intuitive and kind of...gimmicky.

I've never played Double Dragon Advance.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:44 pm 


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andsuchisdeath wrote:
I've never played Double Dragon Advance.


It's really good - basically a rebuild of the original coin-op, with stages, enemies and mechanics from its arcade and console sequels, and even Kunio and Combatribes. The engine walks a fine line between smoothing out oldschool Technos and keeping its grim brutality. Moderate juggles and easy command moves, but no autocombos or free grapples - you've still gotta stagger enemies before the coup de grace. By ex-Technos devs, and it shows. :smile: Biggest shortcoming is the GBA's small screen and sub-optimal button layout (jump on R takes adjusting to), but a GBA Player (or emulator) gets around that.

This guy's survival mode run is a good demo of the fighting engine. Pretty standard Technos, with Punch, Kick and Jump buttons. P+K is the big addition. Neutral = crouch, will dodge attacks and set up the launcher elbow and knee. By a prone enemy's head = Combatribes stomp. While walking = headbutt. While running = flying roundhouse.

I wish the fourth button, Return's counter on L, had been dedicated to crouch. But the command interpreter is so smooth, it's easily forgiven. Main issue is learning not to crouch near prone enemies, as you'll get the very punishable stomp instead. It's a pretty easy work-around to incorporate, with the game's classically harsh emphasis on spacing.

Spoiler: show
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^ from an ill-fated speedrun attempt - Jeffs don't like their AI being ignored Image
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:38 pm 


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^
I've read a lot of praise for the game throughout the years.

Your post has only sold me on wanting to try it more (not having a gba and not using emulation these days is the only thing that's prevented me).

I happened to have read an old interview with the head planner for for Double Dragon Advance recently (I'm assuming I found the link here).

I was pleasantly surprised to read that he worked on both Super Double Dragon and Shadow Force (two titles I enjoy). I guess he approached taking on the Double Dragon Advance project as a way to redeem himself for his "failures".
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:46 pm 


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Indeed, the self-professed "kicking geek" Muneki Ebinuma - that's a great read. :smile: You can definitely see his influence in the game's extensive moveset and cinematic attack animations. Lots of kick modifiers! He was disappointed that they were given the smallest GBA cart size to work with, but between DDA's sharp design sense and total lack of flab, I think Million did great. One of those console originals that could go straight into a cab with the barest of tweaks.

I hope Shadow Force gets an Arcade Archives release, now that they're gradually moving onto the 90s. As a fan of Super and Advance I was always intrigued.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:27 am 



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Mini-bump (life is getting very busy for me).

I tried the horse some more in Warriors of fate. While I appreciate the sheer variety of moves, I still feel that it would take me ages to learn how to use it properly. It must be a very engrossing experience in expert hands, I guess.

I have also 1-LC'ed The Punisher (finally!), and I am currently trying to recover some 1-CC skills on Dynasty Wars. I am tempted to move to Armored Warriors, even if Capcom belt scrollers drain my patience rather quickly. I would love to 1-CC the easier ones, anyway, and this entails that I will probably steer clear of their early titles for a while...

Please remind me to write a lovely screed/rant about Night Slashers, once you feel that your mullets are ready for it (!).
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:43 am 


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Around the hard gaming, my mullet is perpetually ablaze! Image (it's my Stand, WASTED DAYS AND WASTED NIGHTS Image)

I was mulling over getting the Capcom Belt Action Collection for PS4, but I've recently had my heart broken in goddamn half by Metal Slug XX's crummy input latency (versus the utterly airlock-tight Arcade Archives Neo Geo MS1/2/X/3/4). Armored Warriors is my #1 want in the pack, as a lover of heavy mecha sidescrolling ala Valken, it's always looked and sounded so rad. It's hard to tell online exactly what the deal is with ports/emulations, these days. Hmm. I may give it a punt!

Picked up ACA Sengoku 3 instead, after watching third_strike's badass Kongoh 1LC. This thing is smooth! Early days, but I know what feels good, and beating a motherfucker's head in with an iron club is it!

Noise Factory (SG3 devs) were cool dudes imo. Metal Slug 4 might be dishwater dull visually, but those level designs are wall-to-wall carnage on par with and sometimes surpassing Nazca's work. Never played the earlier Sengokus or the other Neo beltscrollers... I'm kinda curious. I know for sure I'm not down with SNK's pre-Neo brawlers Datsugoku and Ikari III. Severely one-note games, you're pretty much forced to spam their tatty-feeling jumpkicks from start to finish. The latter's a lot more fun on Famicom, where you're still pretty much gonna want to spam the jumpkick, but here it's meaty as fuck, battering down waves of zako with impunity.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:50 am 



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Quick answer while I am spamming comments on the Slashers' entry:

Neo Geo belt scrollers were generally terrible although glorious in their campiness. Not that the rest of the NG titles outside the slugs and the 1-on-1 fighters were any more balanced/well-designed/etc. I would be really curious to know who on Earth worked as their location testers, as there are cases in which game system problems (and their solutions) were just plain obvious.

Frankly, I grew up firmly believing in the equation "SNK=no sense of balance/pace games, but cool design", before and during the NG period. I am pretty sure that as a company they had a dedicated crowd of fans who wanted to 1-CC their games *exactly* because they were generally "unfair". Maybe while doing handstand push-ups on one hand, like Yashiro Nanakase, the bulky Orochi guy in KOF '97.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:02 pm 



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Some thoughts on Night Slashers.

DECO had a really intriguing run in the early '90s, as they produced a lot of really stylish and creative if often imperfect games. Night Slashers is their attempt at creating a complex belt scroller and, even if some of its game mechanics will make you scream from time to time, they can be forgiven because the game offers tons of other interesting ideas and mechanics as well.

In no particular order:

In the year 19XX (or whatever it is), some demon lord decides to conquer the world by taking control of some research facility and sending an army of bogan* zombies to enslave humankind and force them to only drink Toohey's old.

The trio of champions who are going to block the tide of monsters, undeads, sheylas and general riff-raff crawling in the night are a Yank with cyborg arms and a look straight out of a Def Leppard album, a French-Romanian vampire hunter dressed like a billiards player and a stereotypical Hongkongese female exorcist cum dominatrix/bitchy, cheating wife.

The Def Leppard fan has the usual fake perm hair that befits the type of HM period, the billiards player has a mullet, and the woman the obvious very long braid (and the voice of someone who canes her cuckold husband, or something to that effect).

The trio must fight mostly decomposed zombies, partially decomposed zombies who look like first generation Guidos from the '50s (cowlick haircut, armpit height trousers, etc.), 3-metre tall giant Europe fans, gay ninja versions of Jason (C'mon! Suspenders, bare-chested...they might as well as sing "Macho, Macho man!"), high-jumping Danny De Vito-like zombies, paninaro werewolves a la Michael J. Fox's movie, and vampires with mullets (of course).

The first three stages pit the trio against Ahnold Dracula enjoying bloody mary's (with real blood, of course) and steroids for breakfast, then moving onto the battle against the demon lord. First boss is a NFL-playing Frankenstein, second one a cute golem with wee grass patches on his body (preceded by a pile-dropper Pinocchio), then Ahnold Dracs.

The fourth boss is a duo of Aztec/Yautja-looking dudes wressling like the Legiom of Doom (with mullets, of course), then Eddie/Tutankhamon fresh of a Maiden tour on stage 5, Death from some D. Argento movie (st 6) and the Cyborg version of the Demon Lord, which is a push-over once you know a simple trick to combo the fuck out of him (st 7).

I am skipping over Herbert West, re-animator, the cursed swords controlling the armors, and the Ghost 'Nam Copter.

If the relatively accurate but perhaps quirky description of the stock various zakos and bosses has left you wondering whether I abuse drugs (e.g. television) or not, then I may clench your thirst for an answer with a description of the OST.

Stage 1 has a breezy blue-eyed soul song that would be perfect in a Michael McDonald or Donald Fagen album on vampires in New York (vampires with mullets, of course). Stage 2 sounds like a late night, quiet storm rendition of a walk in the woods.

Stage 3 goes full Goblin with cembal effects, and stages 4 and 6 go techno-horror. Stage 5 repeats stage 1's song, and stage 7 has a wannabe epic march. The bonuses, just to be in theme with this musical chaos, feature happy jingles straight out of a Sonic game.

If you are still with me after all this nonsense, well: congrats, you have a sense of humour. And time to spare (I do, because sleeping is anyway for the bourgeoisie). Also no, no television for me: I am clean, finally.

The key point is: the game has this extremely campy horror-meets-comedy design, both in the visual and musical department, that renders its gloriously interesting and at time endearing, if you like games that do not take themselves seriously.

This factor alone is worth a lot of praise, even if animation levels are a bit rough, at times. There are even a few JoJo references, which are charmingly adequate given the mash-up, genre-blending nature of the game.

The game system reflects the game was released in 1993 (right? Cannot be bothered to check). Each character has a wide move set, with charged moves, comboes, various types of jumping kicks, and a bomb that cleans the screen at a cost of a third of your life-bar (press button C, on the floor or while jumping).

The Leppard fan is the slow but powerful type, the mullet vampire hunter the medium guy, the dominatrix exorcist the fast type. Which character is best suited for you depends on the player's style, and how the player handles the aspect I am about to discuss.

The move set may be wide, but enemies are generally cunning, in the sense that they can stop and attack from a distance or jump at you if you do not time your attacks adequately.

An obvious basic strategy becomes, then, to quickly attack any enemy by walking oblique lines (so they cannot attack you), and then land a combo, for instance the 2-punch->elbow strike->roundhouse kick with stun that the dominatrix ladette has. From there, one can press by closing in against the knocked down enemy and landing another combo as soon the enemy is up.

The problem with practicing this basic bit of belt scroller dogma is that any enemy has a combo-breaker attack, and which they can land if the player's tapping is too slow. Of course, one can use autofire to gain attacking speed, right?

Well, the game clearly can detect autofire, because enemies can suddenly parry if the attacks are too fast, and land combo-breakers anyway (i.e. even when the tapping is frenetic).

Nevertheless, high-frequency attacks are important because they trigger critical hits, i.e. hits accompanied by some kanji saying "whoa!That was one hell of a punch!" and dealing much more damage.

No criticals, no serious punishment, and you want to obliterate enemies ASAP, because even the dumbest zakos can be mean motherfuckers comboing you at the first wisp of a chance.

Interestingly, changing attack rythms seem to confuse the CPU, but in general the game can give the players many headaches if they are not quick in dealing with combo breakers and parries.

However, players can at least decide the pace of the game and its difficulty by manipulating enemies' numbers via micro-tapping to the right. In most sections, micro-taps trigger one or two enemies. The player can quickly dispense of them, since numbers are low.

Sudden dashes forward/to the right usually activate several enemies, and this is not the game in which throwing enemies away solves all crowd-control problems (see, e.g., stage 5-1).

Thus, micro-tapping can render the game rather manageable, like DD; huge strides to the right can quickly turn the screen into a FF-like mess of very annoying monstahs jumping around. Players decide, so at least there is a certain fairness.

Overall, the game has a great, gloriously campy appearance that combines with a problematic but still very funny game system. Players decide how hard the game can be, and anyway they can deal punishment with one kazillion moves.

I therefore recommend the game to anyone, with the proviso that controlling how many enemies are on screen is absolutely vital, and even using auto-fire may make matters...interesting. "Don't yell too much at the screen and enjoy the ride" could sum up the whole experience of playing this little gem.

Oh, and sporting a mullet while playing will definitely help!








*bogan is a term from one of the many varieties of English. Guess which one?
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:28 am 


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Randorama wrote:
In the year 19XX (or whatever it is), some demon lord decides to conquer the world by taking control of some research facility and sending an army of bogan* zombies to enslave humankind and force them to only drink Toohey's old.

The trio of champions who are going to block the tide of monsters, undeads, sheylas and general riff-raff crawling in the night are a Yank with cyborg arms and a look straight out of a Def Leppard album, a French-Romanian vampire hunter dressed like a billiards player and a stereotypical Hongkongese female exorcist cum dominatrix/bitchy, cheating wife.

The Def Leppard fan has the usual fake perm hair that befits the type of HM period, the billiards player has a mullet, and the woman the obvious very long braid (and the voice of someone who canes her cuckold husband, or something to that effect).

The trio must fight mostly decomposed zombies, partially decomposed zombies who look like first generation Guidos from the '50s (cowlick haircut, armpit height trousers, etc.), 3-metre tall giant Europe fans, gay ninja versions of Jason (C'mon! Suspenders, bare-chested...they might as well as sing "Macho, Macho man!"), high-jumping Danny De Vito-like zombies, paninaro werewolves a la Michael J. Fox's movie, and vampires with mullets (of course).

The first three stages pit the trio against Ahnold Dracula enjoying bloody mary's (with real blood, of course) and steroids for breakfast, then moving onto the battle against the demon lord. First boss is a NFL-playing Frankenstein, second one a cute golem with wee grass patches on his body (preceded by a pile-dropper Pinocchio), then Ahnold Dracs.

The fourth boss is a duo of Aztec/Yautja-looking dudes wressling like the Legiom of Doom (with mullets, of course), then Eddie/Tutankhamon fresh of a Maiden tour on stage 5, Death from some D. Argento movie (st 6) and the Cyborg version of the Demon Lord, which is a push-over once you know a simple trick to combo the fuck out of him (st 7).

I am skipping over Herbert West, re-animator, the cursed swords controlling the armors, and the Ghost 'Nam Copter.


This sounds like the best Battle Tendency game that never was Image
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:10 am 



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BIL wrote:

This sounds like the best Battle Tendency game that never was Image


Well, Araki was not the one to really introduce eccentric mash-ups as a genre onto itself, but the influence he has had on VG's, anime and manga was and still is immense. DECO always had a thing for bizarre ideas (I mean: Trio the Punch, Chelnov, etc), so paying homage to his majesty was only natural for them, I guess!

More to come, I guess.
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:17 pm 


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Wow, you're right Christopher does have a mullet. I always assumed it was hair slightly too long to be slicked back, yet slicked back anyway.

I played Night Slashers (almost) exclusively this past January/February and found myself enjoying it immensely (despite the game having flaws, but hey what game doesn't. Sometimes flaws can be the best part).

In years past I'd give the game tries here and there, but yeah, I found myself getting absolutely pummeled due to mostly using standard combos (the properties you've mentioned in the game, enemies blocking/ using combo breakers didn't make things any easier). But IMO, even if those properties didn't exist, I think you have to have an incredibly strong grasp on enemy placement and anticipation of where they spawn if you were to rely on combos, because, I find them dangerous to use (barring certain sections of the game). I think I eventually developed a firm grasp of enemy placement, and still found combos to be too scary.

This is likely why I didn't play as Christopher and Hong Hua, and stuck with the Psychic Cyborg. It's obvious that Jake is the ideal character for a first time clear for several reasons, but it didn't become clear to me until I started utilizing his charging slash, charge pile driver (it's more of a Canadian destroyer) and his regrab slam loops (his jump kick is useful in many situations too). Use of the screen clearing special for certain sections filled with zako (with constantly placed health ups around the corner) helped big time too!

So yeah, I cleared the game by the skin of my teeth using scrubby Jake 101 tactics I learned from several videos (while rarely comboing), but I totally loved every step of the way.
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Last edited by andsuchisdeath on Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:28 am 



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Andsuch: I agree on enemy placement, and I believe that knowing enemy sequence is also crucial (not just "where" and "when" enemies appear, but also "who" is going to appear). Any tiny mistakes beyond st 3 can be quickly lethal, but at least avoiding those becomes relatively easy once you have the sequence memorised.

I tried out Jake yesterday, and I agree that the various wrestling moves can make him a easy character to use (but I am usually a speed person, whence using Hong Hua). A 1-CC wouldn't be a bad idea. At this point I am only hesitant to learn Christophere, since he is the "betwixt-and-between" type of character that seems too slow to combo enemies, or to use other tactics.

Still, this is a sublime game, in all of its imperfections!

Re: Biru-dono and Armored Warriors. I need to check some videos to get a firmer grasp of what I am supposed to do in-game (as in "duh, how do I play this?"), but at the moment I am a bit hesitant to play it more. Let us see if a Sunday break can sway my opinion towards an "aye, let's 1-CC this lad".

If you guys hear me shouting, it will likely be a "nay".
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:31 pm 


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Didn't know about Night Slashers, so I watched the attract mode and my dick got rock hard Image)

I like how Christopher has a combo that includes both a flurry of kicks AND gunfire, that looks satisfying af touse
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 Post subject: Re: Final Fight Advice?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 7:26 pm 


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Inspired by Randorama post, I was trying to learn Warriors of Fate recently... Got my ass kicked to submission very early on. Funny how the character I used apparently has a SPD move, but not even once in my 12 credits run I was able to pull it off. Not that it was gonna make a difference though, lol.


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