[Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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andsuchisdeath
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[Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by andsuchisdeath »

Is there any beltscroller that gets erroneously tagged as "average", "run of the mill", "nothing special" as frequently as this one does?

Although I won't say it's the total package or a be all end all game, it's engine makes it a very unique title within a context. Mid 90's console only filled with mechanics akin to later-era arcade titles in the genre (juggles, special move macros, on-the-ground attacks, cancels, regrabs ).

The engine is truly absurd, and I highly doubt this was unintentional on tecnosoft's behalf. Most of the outrageous properties in the engine are exclusive to the Saturn version, which was released several months after the original psx release.

Anyways, I figured I'd make a few combo videos that scratch the surface of the more bizarre properties to the engine.


Rando
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i84oJCFJSAk

Tora
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcTXejt7 ... rFxWLzGv9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMpq32KlFdQ

Rio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4aKd3QClNY
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Pretas
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Pretas »

Doesn't Nekketsu Oyako have many special move commands that are very obscure and not properly documented anywhere in the game or manual?

Like Technosoft's Blast Wind, it was originally planned as an arcade game but moved to a console-only release. Blast Wind was known as Inazuma Saber when it was still going to be in the arcades.
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andsuchisdeath
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by andsuchisdeath »

Pretas wrote:Doesn't Nekketsu Oyako have many special move commands that are very obscure and not properly documented anywhere in the game or manual?
Yes. There are quite a few special commands that as far as my monolingual self understands, are not documented in the manual.
Pretas wrote:
Like Technosoft's Blast Wind, it was originally planned as an arcade game but moved to a console-only release. Blast Wind was known as Inazuma Saber when it was still going to be in the arcades.
I've read about this being the case for Blast Wind. I thought Nekketsu Oyako's supposed arcade origins were based more on speculation.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Kino »

Bumping in the faint hopes of generating more discussion, as this game most definitely warrants it. Just got into Nekketsu Oyako recently, and I think I have a new favorite console-exclusive belt scroller. (BKII & BKIII are still the gold standard obviously, though I do find the engine of Nekketsu more compelling)

Would anyone more experienced be able to opine on who's the easiest character for a 1CC? They all seem pretty viable, though Rio's pressure wave makes keeping a juggle alive insanely easy. Only the final boss' second form is immune to it (though on my last playthrough, I discovered he can be briefly juggled with her super spin attack.) Some strategies for keeping her alive during the roller coaster section would be greatly appreciated, as well. Trying to stay airborne the entire time via pogo-sticking never seems to work out...


Also, here's all the special moves, as I don't think there's any available movelist in english.

Code: Select all

RANDO:

Beast King Fist           DP+A
Oyaji Smash               Up, Down, Forward+A (can also be performed during jump)
Oyaji Straight            HCB+A
Oyaji Burst Rush          Up, Down, Back+A  (only during low health)

RIO:

Hammer Drift              QCF+A
Super Spin Attack         QCF+B
Hammer Breed              Back, Forward, Back+A
Pressure Wave             QCB+A (can also be performed during jump)

TORA:

Dragon Claw Slash         DP+A
Last edited by Kino on Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Hrm. I'll check this out on the PSX, tomorrow.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Skykid »

I always enjoyed Nekketsu Oyako, but I only have only played the PSX version. How big are the differences (and what are they specifically) between PSX and Saturn?
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by CIT »

Skykid wrote:I always enjoyed Nekketsu Oyako, but I only have only played the PSX version. How big are the differences (and what are they specifically) between PSX and Saturn?
The Saturn version is basically the updated version, majorly tweaking the gameplay.

I'll just quote our main man Macaw on the differences:
Macaw wrote:- Multiple special moves added for characters
- Some animation frames added
- Some animation frames altered (for example Rando's dashing kick)
- Bosses have extra attacks and animations
- Some enemy sprites redrawn (Vandammes for instance)
- Presentation of the game is altered (stage intro's etc)
- Enemy falling physics modified to allow for easier juggling
- Moves are more cancelable to allow for more combo's
- Rando moves much faster (in the ps version he is insanely slow)
it's a great game, BTW! Definitely one of my favorite belt-scrollers.
Last edited by CIT on Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Skykid »

Thanks CIT!
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Tarma »

I had this for a while on the PSX and I have to say I was quite disappointed with it.

The graphics are bright and bold, but the animation is nothing to write home about and the gameplay is very repetitive even for a scrolling beat 'em up.

As a Technosoft oddity it's worth taking a look at, but with prices rising for the Saturn and PSX, I really would only recommend it to die hard scrolling beat 'em up fans. I found it pretty dull, had potential for so much better, and ultimately there are a plethora of other scrolling beat 'em ups to hunt down and play before even giving Nekketsu Oyako a second thought.

Remember Crest of Wolf on PC Engine CD Rom?

That's always been classed as fairly mediocre for the genre - but its a better play than NO.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by CIT »

Tarma wrote:I had this for a while on the PSX and I have to say I was quite disappointed with it.
Don't judge it on the PS version alone. The Saturn one is a significant improvement and turns an okay game into a great one!
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by BIL »

Timely bump with quality endorsements from several excellent chaps, interest piqued!
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Skykid »

I always liked Nekketsu's novelty allure. Perhaps it's because I always have a hype attachment to early console releases, especially obscure stuff that didn't make it overseas; and I remember magazines showing off screens of NO around PSX launch time and being particularly intrigued.

It might not be the best of its kind but I always had fun with it. We can all agree that it's better than Iron Commando at least.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by BIL »

Skykid wrote:Perhaps it's because I always have a hype attachment to early console releases, especially obscure stuff that didn't make it overseas; and I remember magazines showing off screens of NO around PSX launch time and being particularly intrigued.
Same - even with stuff I've no interest in tracking down personally, I'll always fondly remember the PS1 and Saturn's launch titles; particularly with those being the ones where I was most on the outside looking in, and following a spate of dreary Western attempts.

Mentally I always filed Nekketsu Oyako with Gunners Heaven (got a PAL-only release as Rapid Reload). Although very much a B-tier Gunstar knockoff, Gunners is easily solid enough that I consider it worth having... there's an undeniable bit of nostalgia attached too, though, remembering those blurry, alluring screenshots in EGM and GameFan.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Skykid »

Yeah, the same. Even average to poor stuff lives on in my heart with nostalgia wrapped sentiment that seems inextricably bound to said software even though I know it's ass.

Toshinden, Blue Stinger, Wonderdog (yak!), Road Avenger and Earnest Evans are a few of the poorer that linger in my special launch status bracket, while the likes of Gunners Heaven, Ridge Racer, Wipeout, Virtua Fighter, Lumines, Ridge Racers, NAM 1975 and Nekketsu Oyako are played with fondness whenever I get them out for a spin.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Tarma »

CIT wrote:
Tarma wrote:I had this for a while on the PSX and I have to say I was quite disappointed with it.
Don't judge it on the PS version alone. The Saturn one is a significant improvement and turns an okay game into a great one!
Maybe I'll give the Saturn version a whirl at somepoint then... not gonna rush out though, I really was not in the least bit impressed by the PSX version.

We can all agree that it's better than Iron Commando at least.
ooooh... I dunno, they're both pretty dull in my experience.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by andsuchisdeath »

CIT, thanks for posting Macaw's breakdown on the Saturn differences.
Kino wrote: Would anyone more experienced be able to opine on who's the easiest character for a 1CC?
Tora. The unglamorous path of least resistance is through abusing his sword attack. Holding the right trigger to lock your direction makes it easier to spam the input. The move makes quick work of almost every boss in the game. I find using this technique ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcTXejt7SB0 ) more fitting for stage 2's boss because I'm pretty sure his kick beats out Tora's sword most of the time.

Tora's jump kick with the strange combo-centric physics is jump + back then kick. It's easier to perform when holding the right trigger for the direction-lock. Tora's sword attack also make's the roller coaster segment effortless too.

Also, thanks for posting those special moves. Rando's Oyaji Smash can also be performed in the air. You can also cancel this move into his DP. You can cancel his DP into an air Oyaji Smash. I'm sure you're aware of most of the "non-special" command moves in the game too.

Tarma wrote: Maybe I'll give the Saturn version a whirl at somepoint then... not gonna rush out though, I really was not in the least bit impressed by the PSX version.
Honestly, you're probably not going to notice/enjoy any of the components which make the Saturn version superior. If someone's still using the term "repetitive" to describe beltscrollers, well, then, uhhmghmghgm..
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Tarma »

If someone's still using the term "repetitive" to describe beltscrollers, well, then, uhhmghmghgm..
Still using the term repetitive? What's wrong with that?! If you're inferring that there's a certain degree of repetitveness in the genre, then yes , even the best side scrollers have a degree of repetitveness, but that doesn't mean they're still not fun to play.

In my experience NO was not fun, it was a chore. But hey if you like it, good for you, I wasn't knocking it to start an argument, just passing my opinion.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I just checked this out. First impression: average gameplay, with some odd humor.

It's OK. I'll dig deeper.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Alien Vs Predator is not repetitive in any way shape or form unless you are totally unaware of what you're doing or what's going on.

I'll check this out later. Down for deeper combat systems in these types of games (like the aforementioned).
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Kino »

Didn't see any 1CCs for the Saturn version anywhere, so here's a scrubby Rio clear for the masses courtesy of yours truly!
andsuchisdeath wrote:
Kino wrote: Would anyone more experienced be able to opine on who's the easiest character for a 1CC?
Tora. The unglamorous path of least resistance is through abusing his sword attack. Holding the right trigger to lock your direction makes it easier to spam the input. The move makes quick work of almost every boss in the game.
Huh, surprising. I would've had him pegged as the most difficult to clear it with. True, his sword attack is immensely abuseable (especially if you catch opponents behind you with it), though he doesn't have much going for him other than that, does he?

I'll give him another shot, in any case. He may very well be the best, but he's certainly got the least interesting playstyle of the three. For now I'll focus on learning Rando, as he looks to have even more options than Rio if you play your cards right...
evil_ash_xero wrote:I just checked this out. First impression: average gameplay
evil_ash_xero wrote:I'll check this out on the PSX
There's your problem.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Vludi »

The combat looks weird to me with all that gunnin' and hammer splashes. I might give it a try later.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Skykid »

Tarma wrote:
We can all agree that it's better than Iron Commando at least.
ooooh... I dunno, they're both pretty dull in my experience.
For you Oyako might be dull (I found it more enjoyable, personally), but Iron Soldier suffers actual game breaking design flaws whereas Oyako is at least competently programmed regardless of how you take to its components. Iron Soldier's enemy quota, damage scaling, stage structure and other fundamentals like bad collision detection make it unapproachable for a 1CC unless you're some kind of raving gaming masochist who likes bending damaged goods to their whim - and even then I think it's beyond reason.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by andsuchisdeath »

Tarma wrote:
If someone's still using the term "repetitive" to describe beltscrollers, well, then, uhhmghmghgm..
Still using the term repetitive? What's wrong with that?! If you're inferring that there's a certain degree of repetitveness in the genre, then yes , even the best side scrollers have a degree of repetitveness, but that doesn't mean they're still not fun to play.

In my experience NO was not fun, it was a chore. But hey if you like it, good for you, I wasn't knocking it to start an argument, just passing my opinion.
Input from someone who calls beltscrollers repetitive usually conveys "My viewing lens is basic".

You're comparing a bare bones game like Crest of Wolf (which contains nothing beyond a standard combo, throw, jump attack and desperation) to a command move laden title with weird engine properties. Such qualities aren't going to mean much to someone with such a casual view of the genre. So, hey you have the right to your opinion, but, you're missing a few points.

Nekketso Oyako is, by no means, a great game. It's a strange game. The pacing and challenge is painfully console-esque, and it doesn't demand much understanding from the player in order to clear. It's not a game serious arcade beltscroller fans are going to be stimulated by. However, contextually, it's engine is rather unique for a console beltscroller, and these qualities should at least allow it to be differentiated from the Crest of Wolfs of the genre.
Last edited by andsuchisdeath on Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by andsuchisdeath »

Kino wrote:
True, his sword attack is immensely abuseable (especially if you catch opponents behind you with it), though he doesn't have much going for him other than that, does he?

I'll give him another shot, in any case. He may very well be the best, but he's certainly got the least interesting playstyle of the three. For now I'll focus on learning Rando, as he looks to have even more options than Rio if you play your cards right...

The height of brokenness in Tora's jump + back kick infinite remains to be seen. I've yet to apply it consistently beyond the stage 2 boss. It's damage is rather low. It's not very practical, but it's somewhat safe. Position depending, you can use it against crowds of grunts, remaining in the air for quite some time.

Tora's regrabs are also safe. You can get in deep with a running jump + down + A (knee). During a grab, *neutral* A,A,A (hit direction opposite of where enemy is facing) A,A,A (repeat). This works on the overwhelming majority of standard enemies, and at least on the stage 1 and 4 bosses. It's cumbersome, but safe enough to prove useful in a pursuit of a no miss run I guess. Yes, Tora isn't as exciting as the others.

Also, Rando is certainly a fun character. His air oyaji smash is safe and provides a relatively quick way for him to get in on an enemy. On a crowd you can Air Oyaji Smash *cancel* dragon punch, otg slide *cancel* dragon punch *cancel* air oyaji smash. He also has regrabs similar to Tora's, and his pile drivers are a lot of fun to use too.
Nice, video btw.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by Kino »

Thanks, man!
andsuchisdeath wrote:The height of brokenness in Tora's jump + back kick infinite remains to be seen. I've yet to apply it consistently beyond the stage 2 boss. It's damage is rather low. It's not very practical, but it's somewhat safe. Position depending, you can use it against crowds of grunts, remaining in the air for quite some time.
Yeah, I think that's what was screwing up my earlier Tora runs. Trying to rely on his crossup kick infinite more often than I should've. After messing about with both him and Rando more, I can safely say Rando's the toughest 1CC in the game. Tora, I can at least consistently get to the final stage by mashing DP and doing the occasional regrab infinite (not flashy, but as you said, effective.) Rando looks to actually require some work being put in... have yet to get past stage 4 with him.

I'll try out that combo you mentioned. The crowds in the later levels is usually where I falter with Rando, so that should come in real handy...
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Kino wrote:
evil_ash_xero wrote:I just checked this out. First impression: average gameplay
evil_ash_xero wrote:I'll check this out on the PSX
There's your problem.

How big of a difference can there be? I watched a vid about it, and the PSX version is the "original", while the Saturn is the port. There isn't supposed to be almost any difference at all.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by CIT »

^ Dude, just read the fucking thread before you comment. We've already gone over the differences. :roll:
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by evil_ash_xero »

CIT wrote:^ Dude, just read the fucking thread before you comment. We've already gone over the differences. :roll:
Don't be so uptight. Christ. We're talking about a video game.

Yeah, I missed your post. I'll make sure to "read the fucking thread" next time. I wouldn't want to enter such an important topic, uninformed.
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by CIT »

Sorry, I meant no offence. But videogames are serious business after all! :wink:
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Re: [Saturn] Nekketsu Oyako

Post by evil_ash_xero »

CIT wrote:Sorry, I meant no offence. But videogames are serious business after all! :wink:
:lol:
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