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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:55 pm 


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LichbannMejolaro wrote:
Even though it's not a old game, I saw some people talking about Battle Princess Madelyn (https://store.steampowered.com/app/6039 ... s_Madelyn/), and it look like a modern reimagination of Ghouls & Ghosts. I haven't tried yet, but most of the reviews complain about things that are staples on G&G, like heavy enemy respawn, the character flying away after a hit, and so on.


Madelyn is kinda terrible. If you're expecting a "modern reimagination of G&G", don't bother with it.
It's definitely full of shoutouts to Capcom's series, not just G&G, but Black Tiger as well! But the comparisons stop at cute homage.
I'm not sure what it is about it, but it feels like it's made by two different people. Maybe someone made a really cool functional basic Ghouls n Ghosts kinda gameplay engine, which does play incredibly well. The feeling of spamming your attacks on the poor defenseless enemies is actually really good. But then someone else (?) decided to cobble a game together around that, and it just works like crap. I'm not sure I recall ever playing a more buggy game, it's almost kusoge level how weird and unpredictably certain things will behave - including the menus. In fact, especially the menus.

The real nail in the coffin though is the fact that you can't really die in the game. You'll just respawn immediately with no harm done. It's completely a casual game, and was absolutely intended to be such.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:58 pm 


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Herr Schatten wrote:
I like that the individual characters play much more differently from each other than the quartet from CotM1 did. The downside of this is that certain levels and bosses seem much more tailored to certain characters. If you happen to lose the key character along the way, you can as well restart. The first game was much more flexible in this regard. I also think that the checkpoints are spaced too far apart, especially the ones before the bosses. You always have to cover a lot of ground until you can try again. Which you will. A lot.

Eugh that sounds disappointing. The first one was definitely exactly the opposite, and that's what made it great. All the characters had their strength, but they also all had their way to get through the stages. And the true fun challenge was plowing through the game as a non-upgraded Zangetsu. Sounds like this one isn't really designed for that?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:36 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Sounds like this one isn't really designed for that?

You cannot choose to kill or ignore the other characters anymore, they automatically become allies. The following stage (including the boss) then acts as a tutorial stage (ugh!) for the latest character you have acquired. It gets a bit better later, when you have all characters at your disposal, but you're already halfway through the game at that point, and even then it's always very obvious that the game expects you to use specific subweapons of specific characters in certain situations. While it's technically possible to get through the stages with other characters, it's just not fun in the best of cases and a major pain in the ass in the majority of them.

I feel that the first game was basically built around non-powered-up Zangetsu and that using the other characters added interesting twists to the solutions, while the new game is built around the specific abilities of varying characters and punishes you if you don't abide to its rigid rules.

Maybe it's different in subsequent playthroughs. I can't comment on those, as I haven't finished the first one yet. I don't hold my breath for it, though. So far, this game is a huge disappointment.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:19 am 


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That's really too bad. Sounds like they're back to standard Inti Creates fare. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:55 pm 


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CotM2 is way harder than the first one and certainly much rougher around the edges but I didn't find the quality between the titles that vast. There's still lots of enjoyment to be had, someways I even prefer the second one. It does step more outside of its classicvania influences, sometimes with mixed success but it helps making it feel like more its own thing now.

The "tutorial" stages were present in the first one as well, I think it's got more to do with the new characters that have much more distinct pros and cons in terms of gameplay styles. Though Hachi is so overpowered (lots of health, instant invulnerability, gliding, negates ice physics...) that it really hurts the overall pace on initial playthrough(s). It's way too easy to fall into a bad habit of using him as a crutch instead studying stages/bosses properly. Now that I've been grinding away solo mode with Zangetsu, the level design doesn't feel nearly as unbalanced as I'd initially feared. The most difficult paths aren't usually accessible with him so the game sort of funnels you into more appropriate path.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:10 pm 


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Might edit the NG WR speedrun there since the vid is private. Current WR by Arcus aka THE FASTEST HAND IN THE WEST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGZWkqdwfEI
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:22 pm 


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Thanks. :smile: Going to be updating/reorganising the OP this week, will make sure that gets edited in.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:51 pm 


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Also just discovered that you can have 99 continues in Ninja Gaiden III NES, by seeing the title screen 8 times (let it fade to intro and press start) and pressUp+Left+A+B+Select and press Start. Wow this is a godsend, since that game is a messy bastard.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:01 am 


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Still rolling with Akumajou Densetsu. Ralph/Sypha duo is good fun: having a mobile smart-bomb with her Lightning spell complements nicely the traditional Belmont character. The axe is mighty useful in this game, much more so than Dracula 1, at least on the upper route; great for carving Pazuzu Dracula's face as well.

Now that I managed to put all the pieces together and have 1cced it, I warmed up to the game. Playing with Grant now, but I remember him handling better in Dracula's Curse? Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me.

Playing the first game back and forth along with this one, it strikes me how faster paced it is when compared to it's third entry.


Last edited by bottino on Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:45 am 


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Played through the English translation patched Gun-Dec (VICE: Project Doom). Stylewise it's better than the English release, but it doesn't add much in terms of substance or explain anything in terms of plot motivations. At the end, it feels like the plot's as vague as the English release.

I used to love this one, since it had been something I'd only seen in Nintendo Power before I'd had the chance to try it. It's got more issues than I'd care to admit now that I've gone through it several times trying to no-miss it. Specifically, the game seems to expect you to take hits on purpose at times unless you're some kind of tool-assisted monster. It's especially egregious with the red ninjas who jump up without warning and need to be memorized, firing a fast 3 way spread that covers in such a way that it's basically impossible to dodge at times. The last few in the final level where the pits are end up being a nightmare and it's actually safer to jump at them, and let the damage knockback land you back safely on the platforms, purposefully taking hits just so you're not falling into the pits trying to kill them. The game always gives you a huge HP item before bosses, and you also get farmable HP items by just moving offscreen to respawn an enemy again to farm small health items.

The bosses are also all about basic pattern learning and exploits, with most of them being fairly trivial to figure out. There's a couple where the swordwhip thing isn't optimal and grenades end up being better, but most can be quickly killed via the sword whip.

The ability to duck and run would be nice if you could move while attacking, but all weapons including the two ranged weapons force you to stop moving, which feels like it's at odds with this mechanic. The weapon switching also feels like it can't decide if it wants to be a fast-paced platformer like Ninja Gaiden or a slower, more deliberate one. The pistol's limited range and slowish projectile speed also leave something to be desired. As crazy as the swordwhip's reach is, its hitbox basically being a full 180 degrees behind, above, and in front, it has just enough of a delay and a very small window where it actually has active hitbox frames in front of you that it can be surprisingly hard to hit things like the flying birds. Ninja Gaiden or Shatterhand have far more active frames in front of you it seems for the attacks so while the attack's reach is overall smaller, you're not stuck with a fiddly timing window to hit something. I've come to really appreciate something like Shatterhand's generous punching hitbox that has lots of reach and is easily spammable for stuff in front.

The graphics and music are really great and the minigame segments are perfectly decent and inoffensive, and it's nice that enemies are quite varied and generally new enemies keep appearing throughout the game, but playing this again makes me hate the design of some of the later levels where you're making some jumps into stuff that easily hits you. The final level is one of the worst designed levels honestly and I loathe how it's reliant on stupid shenanigans like smacking enemies that jump directly above you by mashing the swordwhip, as well as the stupid series of pits at the end. The level design's a lot less tight at times compared to other classic NES platformers like Shadow of the Ninja.

My nostalgia made me remember this game as being a lot better than it actually is. Honestly, it's a decent game, but not always a role model as far as good level design goes.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:33 am 


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Gun-Dec's balance is somewhere between NG1 and NG2, a sometimes awkward spot. It has II's velocity and perilous footing, with similar ambush/trap spawns, and it's likewise generous with HP. However, while NGII's subweapon blunderbuss shreds the screen, GD's firepower is even more conservative than NG1's. Its busiest segments (waterfall's an early example) are inevitably bumpy at first, and provided you avoid ledges, the myriad minor dings can make it feel like you're cruising on its huge lifebar.

I never got around to recording a no-miss, because while survival wasn't all that taxing, authoritative play is actually pretty demanding. Rainy day project. I like to play "big HP" games like the lifebar is half its actual length (see also El Viento, not that GD is quite that spammy Image).

I think its gun/bomb should've been on [up+B], ala NG/CV. This goes for Jigoku Gokurakumaru's projectiles, too. FC Batman's system works in its methodical context, but it tends to cramp Ryukenden-style kamikaze freewheeling.

There's some really enjoyable stage design - I love the traincar battle, with its economically lethal bazooka/pit setups, and that power plant with the slowly but relentlessly chasing bots - and it handles remarkably smoothly. And just like NGII it's gorgeous, with rushing parallax and compact, tightly-detailed sprites. I especially love those proximity-triggered sedge hat monks - angry cane spin intensifies - and the hedgehog punks who... crawl around on all fours like they've dropped a contact lens? Holy fuck lmao.

I'd call it a mildly flawed highlight of the NG school - not as good as Tecmo's games, but near enough that fans should try it. The combination of bewildering ambushes and lenient damage scale will annoy vets, but by that same token, it's probably ideal for newbies.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:34 pm 


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That's something I was thinking too, that the gun should be dropped altogether and the grenades put on Up + B. The gun is generally a liability because you lose the ability to hit things above you that is crucial at times from the laser whip, and the grenades are vastly superior anyways as a ranged supplement due to their range, the arc of the throw, the massive blast size, and so on. The gun largely feels unnecessary and there's only one boss where I actually prefer the gun above all else due to how the fight works (final boss, 1st phase, the grenades work just fine too albeit slightly slower). The gun would be a lot better if it could be rapid fired with a 2 or 3 projectile limit, or kept the firing delay but made the projectiles fullscreen. As it is, it feels largely worthless in comparison to the other two weapons.

I may still go for a no miss. Health damage is not a concern in stages, so I only have to worry about rememebering what to do on bosses (remembering that grenades cancel the blue alien boi's summoned helpers is massive). The final boss also hits quite hard if you mistime the projectile jump, and I don't know how to speedkill it aside from slowly grenading it down. The main risky bits are pits:

• The swampy area after the waterfall has some tight dodges on thin ledges where being hit will instantly knock you off.
• The inexplicable sewer area after the train ride has at least one nasty rat that will late jump at you and can hit you in midair, knocking you into a pit.
• The alien level has one surprise spawing blue enemy that appears from behind as you approach a ledge. Simply running away and ignoring it is actually safest.
• The red ninjas in the final level with the crumbling platforms are stupid and the easiest way to deal is just jump at them, abd let the knockback hit you onto the platform again, then run.

---

I'm also getting back into Shovel Knight again. I wonder how hard a no-miss of this is considered to be? I imagine it's a formidable task; the game itself is lengthy and difficult, especially with the mechanic where a forward attack knocks you back slightly when you hit the enemy. This applies if you're jumping and attack an enemy on a ledge; the pushback can send you into the pit, and doing downward attacks to jump on an enemy's head is often much more reliable and safe where pits are involved. Much of its difficulty is mitigated by the forgiving respawn system, so it's a game that's kind of a choose-your-difficulty system depending on what challenges you decide to give yourself.

What's the general consensus on Shovel Knight as a game? Is it a merely good game? A great game? A mediocre game that's playing to the "retrogaming" crowd? I think it seems to be a great game but I'm curious on what more platforming-versed folks think.

---

Edit: 1cc'd Vice/Gun-Dec thanks to the extra lives the games gives you. I didn't go out of my way to farm them, but after I botched the no-miss due to me literally just walking off a platform I got a tad annoyed with myself and kinda fumbled the rest of the way through it. My opinion of the game hasn't improved. I can see why I was amused by it more when I first played it. As BIL says, "The combination of bewildering ambushes and lenient damage scale will annoy vets, but by that same token, it's probably ideal for newbies", which describes the game perfectly. Gorgeous game, but feels like the euroshmup equivalent of a platformer (or perhaps not quite that frustrating!). There goes my nostalgia for the game, I guess.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:10 pm 


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If you've ever wanted to be The Thing now you have your chance.

Carrion is out:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/953490/CARRION/

I will be buying this later today.

Also make sure you watch the trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZENtOGdMkc
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:04 pm 


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Looks intriguing... killer name too. Always been interested in amoral monster-centric action (my Silent Hill x Sanvein manic hump 'em up concept will be vaunted by future generations Image). Chimera Beast, wot wot.

The amorphous monster concept reminds me vaguely of The Ooze (MD), though I've never actually played that one. The meaty body horror looks way cooler, though. Never cared about sludge/radioactive monsters, all about the unvarnished nightmare of TEH FLESH (And The Power It Holds)

Chaps, I have rejigged the front page for ultraviolence AND concise topicality guidelines - I would appreciate if you would peruse, and let me know if I have gone too far on either count, as I am wont to :oops: (they wanted me to switch off Metal Slug X's blood, but I told 'em, that poor Nazi fuck's eye pops out either way, and if they didn't STFU, I was gonna bust out the Marion pantsu :cool:)

Image

Now to plug away at the index a bit. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:18 pm 


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Huh, there used to be a demo for Carrion on GOG, but I guess they took it down.

The thing to know about it is movement is controlled with the mouse. You aim in a general direction and your creatures sprouts dozens of tentacles to every available surface to pull itself along. RMB controls your bite.

The game it most reminds me of is an old indie physics platformer called Gish.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:16 pm 


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Thanks for the links Stevens!

BIL wrote:
The amorphous monster concept reminds me vaguely of The Ooze (MD), though I've never actually played that one. The meaty body horror looks way cooler, though. Never cared about sludge/radioactive monsters, all about the unvarnished nightmare of TEH FLESH (And The Power It Holds)


Yeah, especially in how your creature grows in size every time you consume enemies; can't imagine that mechanic being easy to balance though.
Reminds me a bit of Alien 3 as well, but I suspect that has to do more with the movie than with the side-scrolling game.

Quote:
Chaps, I have rejigged the front page for ultraviolence AND concise topicality guidelines - I would appreciate if you would peruse, and let me know if I have gone too far on either count, as I am wont to :oops: (they wanted me to switch off Metal Slug X's blood, but I told 'em, that poor Nazi fuck's eye pops out either way, and if they didn't STFU, I was gonna bust out the Marion pantsu :cool:)


Looks amazing 8)

Mischief Maker wrote:

The game it most reminds me of is an old indie physics platformer called Gish.


Indeed it does. And what is that, the revenge of the Dragon Quest slime :P ?


Last edited by bottino on Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:59 pm 


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Front page looks so hot . I wanna FUCK it

looking at it and I'm biting my lower lip and be like ''DAYUMMM''
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:15 pm 


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I give the OP 4 out of 5 Space Phallus's.

Looks really good.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:54 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I'm also getting back into Shovel Knight again. I wonder how hard a no-miss of this is considered to be? I imagine it's a formidable task; the game itself is lengthy and difficult, especially with the mechanic where a forward attack knocks you back slightly when you hit the enemy. This applies if you're jumping and attack an enemy on a ledge; the pushback can send you into the pit, and doing downward attacks to jump on an enemy's head is often much more reliable and safe where pits are involved. Much of its difficulty is mitigated by the forgiving respawn system, so it's a game that's kind of a choose-your-difficulty system depending on what challenges you decide to give yourself.

What's the general consensus on Shovel Knight as a game? Is it a merely good game? A great game? A mediocre game that's playing to the "retrogaming" crowd? I think it seems to be a great game but I'm curious on what more platforming-versed folks think.


A Shovel Knight no miss is pretty hard by platformer standards, mostly because it's more than an hour long and full of instant death pits. Running out of health isn't a serious threat once you know what you're doing.

It's obviously well-made but it's also a relaxed, Rockman-style platformer instead of something more oppressive, and I can't get as excited about that. I also really dislike the way Shovel Knight gets knocked back when he hits something. You can compensate for it but it just feels bad. It is very cool that it's now four games in one, each with distinct mechanics and stages. All three secondary campaigns bring solid new ideas to the table. I give it a B+.

BIL wrote:
Chaps, I have rejigged the front page for ultraviolence AND concise topicality guidelines - I would appreciate if you would peruse, and let me know if I have gone too far on either count, as I am wont to :oops: (they wanted me to switch off Metal Slug X's blood, but I told 'em, that poor Nazi fuck's eye pops out either way, and if they didn't STFU, I was gonna bust out the Marion pantsu :cool:)


Looks fantastic. imo reinsert "If you have had your ass kicked in by these games - take heart! Practice and you too will join the NINJA RYUKENDEN TASK FORCE." or replace it with something similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:07 am 


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Just got a 1 miss run of Gun-Dec. The only death was in the last section of the game, on one of the stupid crumbling platforms with the even stupider red ninjas, due to the red ninja in front jumping out much later than it normally does and hitting me into the pit by messing up my timing. Otherwise a perfect run, done with the game I think.

Vanguard wrote:
I also really dislike the way Shovel Knight gets knocked back when he hits something. You can compensate for it but it just feels bad.


Yeah. I'm not sure why it was implemented; the downward attack in midair is far more useful and abusable anyways, it's not like the forward attack is actually all that good or practical in most cases. Thanks though, that assessment of the game was kinda the vibe I had gotten.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:04 am 


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TY chaps, I will endeavour to keep the front page ultraviolent AND informative :cool:

Vanguard wrote:
Looks fantastic. imo reinsert "If you have had your ass kicked in by these games - take heart! Practice and you too will join the NINJA RYUKENDEN TASK FORCE." or replace it with something similar.


Done! That was indeed an important line - one I STILL believe will tempt our absent friend Edmond The Mad back to our grizzled ranks. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:35 am 


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Maybe bring back useful replays of NGs too since it's so helpful for newcommers.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:37 am 


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Most definitely - sorting out a dedicated post for those, will link it from the front page. :smile:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:56 am 


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:D

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:49 pm 


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^^^ :cool:

As mentioned, for the front page: Here's a loose collection of no-death replays for the Ninja Gaiden trilogy, sourced from here and elsewhere. Observe and git gud, so that your own performance may be added to the body of gud gotness. Image

Ninja Gaiden

>> Arcus's speedrun - current World Record!
>> bubufubu's 1-Hit Run NB: the sole hit taken is a mandatory -1HP nip from the final boss.
>> Austin's No-miss, fully commentated

^^^ Austin wrote:
A longplay I did of the game a couple of years ago. It's not a perfect run by any means, but I do manage to complete it without dying, and it shows my general play style. I like to flow my way through the game as much as I can, mowing as many enemies down with jump-slashes as possible to keep my movement going (maybe mute it if you want, this is a full commentary video).


>> Squire Grooktook's fully annotated No-miss ALL, with all cinematics included! ITS POPCORN TYME
>> Vanguard's No-miss
>> FinalBaton's No-miss

^^^ FinalBaton wrote:
No death. No hit until stage 4-3. No firewheel used.


>> SKYe's Subweaponless+Itemless 1CC and the sequel, his Subweaponless+Itemless No-miss! Superb fundamentals on display!
>> kitten's No-miss

^^^ kitten wrote:
well, my ninja gaiden run is up! along with a usual summary of my opinions and play in the comments.


>> mycophobia's No-miss ; interesting Jaquio technique!

^^^ mycophobia wrote:
Got my NG no death run!


>> My scruffy n' rusty No-miss, recorded JUST 4 EDMANS (^ω´ )

^^^ BIL (thats ME, MUHFUCKA (・`W´・) wrote:
It's relatively sloppy, because I'm lazy ROFL. However, this may actually be useful, by demonstrating not only how to avoid sticky situations, but how to escape them. Despite the slack playstyle, everything demonstrated is rooted in skill, not luck. I should know! I play NG screwily all the time! What do you think this is, kid? SAIGO NO NINDO?


>> My marginally less crummy No-miss - again, some of those mistakes are gold! Witness a man so caked in rust, he ditches his Jumpslash at The 6-2 Chokepoint, only to bungle through on sheer indignation. Image

^^^ GUESS WHO ASSHOLE wrote:
Got the staff roll this time! It's not very polished either though. Don't get your hopes up kids!


Ninja Gaiden II

>> My No-miss, with cutscenes by special EDMANS request - ITS POPCORN TYME once again!
>> My later No-miss sans cutscenes - DROP THE POPCORN YOU FUCK Image

Ninja Gaiden III

>> pegboy's No-miss
>> Volteccer_Jack's No Invincible Firewheel No-miss (NB: holy shit! NGIII's final stage time limit is brutal sans IF)

^^^ Volteccer_Jack wrote:
Never recorded a run like this before, so if I look nervous and jittery as fuck, it's because I am. The reason I don't skip the final boss cutscenes immediately is that I'm trying to stop my hands shaking! Totally winging it for Act 3 boss and 5-1, first half of Act 6 is hella sloppy but worked out well. Thanks to sucky recording, my awesome MLG windmill shurikens in Act 7 are invisible. You can't tell from the video, but that first shuriken in 7-2B doesn't come out at all, which frustratingly made me get hit. In general I was rushing too much and taking too much damage, I end the game with 40 seconds to spare.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:12 pm 


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omfg, WHOAMG, cor burimey :o I didn't know Haggar had a punch infinite in Final Fight. Dunno whether to post slowpoke.jpg or that trendy surprised pikachu.

Timing's trickier than Guy/Cody's [pp] [pivot p] [return] etc. Less mechanical, more of a dosie-do RIDDIM. At least without autofire, as shown. With AF it's a lot easier, but that's life innit. My dpad sucks balls, having returned from the dead twice. Looking forward to trying this with a nice arcade stick. And not on grandma's Maury tv!

What a fuckin aesthetic this game wields. The huge sprites, the bone-crushing SFX, the pitch-perfect animation... I'm gonna finally get my hands dirty and L2P the evil fucker (always crapped out at Abigail), but I'm happy as a clam just replaying stage 1.

Image

^ Satisfactions. Image BapBapBap! *KERASHH* That refreshing feeling of annihilating an enemy, and a phone booth, and a garbage can, utterly. Image The game design can be a real surly bitch, but the mechanics and presentation are pure entertainment.

Image

^ "RAHH RAHR RAHHGH" "Oh HELL no, this one a them bath salts muhfuckas"

I really have to wonder about claims (or rather claim, singular, Noodalls' to be precise) of this having eight frames of input lag on PS4. I'm not getting any appreciable difference going between it and ShmupMAME (1f). I know what 5f feels like (Sunset Riders' inbuilt crouch lag - just about possible to ignore) and this ain't that. Hm. Oh well. Might be adaptation on my part. Gonna get stuck in and verify later on.

Update: For whatever it's worth (I lack the expertise to say), the PS4 keeps up just fine with ShmupMAME 4.2. Here's Guy's 100% on Damnd - SM on top, PS4 on bottom, played side-by-side via Dual Shock 4, on USB cable and Bluetooth respectively. There's a tiny degree of variance, spottable when frame-by-framed, but it's nowhere near enough to affect the combo (this was the last of five attempts, and many other near-completions dropped by human error :oops: ie, my fuckin lousy dpad :evil:).

So, I'm gonna get stuck in and verify later. Taking Noodalls' findings with a grain of salt, going forward.

---

Picked up Arcade Archives: Frogger on a whim. I've always been unclear on this game's provenance... like Burgertime, I used to assume it was Western-made, despite its Japanese manufacturer. Hm. According to GDRI's twitter its precise creator is unknown - a Robert Pappas was instrumental in its reaching consumers, but he doesn't seem to have been its originator.

Anyway, further to the buffet of urban carnage above... I was impressed by the story of Elizabeth Falconer, another key figure in this now-iconic game's narrow survival.

Wikipedia wrote:
Elizabeth Falconer, a market researcher at Sega/Gremlin, was tasked with checking their library of video presentations for potential licenses. It was here that she stumbled across Frogger.

Falconer asked if the game had been reviewed, learning that Gremlin was unwilling because they felt its basic gameplay and "cute" presentation would not sell. Despite this, Falconer thought the game deserved a chance, and requested a licensing window of 90 days so that some prototypes could be location tested. She was told her request would be granted if she could convince Gremlin's management.

Presenting her pitch for Frogger, she was met with executives from Paramount. Falconer opened by passing out booklets she made highlighting Frogger's gameplay and sales potential. One of the executives, Jack Cameron Gordon, immediately tossed the booklet at her and stated that Frogger had already been rejected, because it was a "women and kids game." Falconer replied that the executives were among those who also turned down Pac-Man, a comment that made the room go quiet. Seeing the deflation in resistance, Falconer went on to explain Frogger's appeal - the gameplay's easily memorisable patterns, its aesthetic attractiveness, and its catchy soundtrack were some of the reasons she used. The room was quiet until one of the executives relented, and told the group to "Let her have her goddamn kids game."

Sega/Gremlin agreed to pay Konami $3,500 a day for a 60-day licensing window. Once it was completed, the prototype was taken to a bar in San Diego called "Spanky's Saloon," where it was playtested by a mostly male audience. Gremlin's sales team was impressed at the amount of attention the game was getting, and it was all Sega/Gremlin needed to convince buyers at the AMOA show in October 1981. Distributors had been sold on Frogger based on its test run at Spanky's alone.


Great story! Brings to mind Decca and The Beatles, only someone with business sense was in the room to avert the historic blunder. But aside from Falconer's canny performance, I was mostly struck by the game being considered "too cute" or juvenile/feminine. Its customarily relentless do/die action aside, even on strict aesthetic terms, I always thought of Frogger as an archetypal early 80s video nightmare. Crushed under wheels, eaten alive, swept away by current, hurriedly securing food and mates in search of shelter, it's total Darwin. I once shadowed a gruff old solicitor, a hard-drinking Scot who after our lunchtime scramble across a busy, icy street muttered "fookin' Frogger out there."

I'm guessing the pink frogs are females. Maybe they're just bros, or gay. Even then, I'm reminded of Guerilla War's arcade flyer.

Anyway, I'm surprised I'd not heard of Falconer alongside Roberta Williams and first lady of STGs Carol Shaw. She may not have been an author like them, but she made a similarly lasting mark on the industry.

Noticed a small graphical glitch on PS4 - if the screen is scaled down with the border switched off, you'll get a bit of glitchy framing at the upper-left. It's only on certain scalings though, easily avoided.
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Last edited by BIL on Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 3:10 pm 


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Too bad most of the music was removed from Frogger rather than replaced like the GBA version. At least the apparent emulation issues (odd input lag and slowdown on sides of screen) were fixed. SEGA didn't credit Konami when the game was published in the US. They even tried to make their own version for the Game Gear (which was completed, but never released).


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:30 am 


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BrianC wrote:
At least the apparent emulation issues (odd input lag and slowdown on sides of screen) were fixed.


Was that on Switch? PS4 feels great, doesn't list any updates. Good on Hamster, at any rate - their consistent patch record is one reason they're the only emulation specialists besides M2 and Gotch that I trust implicitly.

Speaking of Burgertime, and early 80s video nightmares,

mycophobia wrote:
burgertime sux


Arcade Archives out tomorrow, PS4/Switch. Now that is XPART TIMEING :cool:

Long have I wished to know the paranoiac terror this chap spoke of. Even tho their frozen, knocked out, YOU THINK YOUR SAFE - its not even funny :shock: U ONLY GET 1 SHOT AT IT Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:42 am 


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Oh shit, Burgertime always puts me in my place. I've watched a few skilled people make that game their bitch, but something about it eludes me.

I noticed a few weeks ago that Kangaroo got an Archives release. Anyone have experience with that one? I vaguely remember that game existing as a kid.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:49 am 


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I was wondering about it too! Will give it a shot today, now that BT is en route. I've a soft spot for those early 80s single-screen action games, like Nintendo's Popeye and Sunsoft's Arabian. While sharing the basic concept of a side-viewed character, they often feel like their own little micro-genres with the various chase/collection mechanics.

TBH, I've not checked out any of the current Sunsoft ACA titles. I think it's a deep-seated aversion to the first half of their Famicom years, when they... weren't great, shall we say. :mrgreen: Certainly not the powerhouse they steadily evolved into from Metafight to Gimmick.

Breaks my goddamn heart that Ikki's arcade version rides the top screen edge, just like on Famicom. Image Will give it a spin just in case it's tolerable. I liked the FC's unusual combination of a locked vertical stab and an auto-targeting projectile, and the arena / kill quota system works well with the treacherous enemy design. It's a great concept, too (Farmer's uprising, time to bust out the proto-ninjutsu sickle & bamboo spear). Not as superb as Nazo no Murasamejou, but a similar vibe.

Gives me a damn headache when you're right next to a scrolling edge, though. I'd be willing to tolerate even Athena's bullshit if its camera wasn't so egregious.

---

Jebus Final Fight is hard as a goddamn boner, but I'm learning to last! Image Beating, overpowering, smashing skull after skull between merciless concrete and chiseled glutes, the only way this could be more blisteringly hard gay is if you could tear the enemies' leathers off and buttfuck 'em. Image Mayor Mike Haggar reaffirmed as one of scrolling action's great aesthetic legends.

THE ABSOLUTE MASCULINE FORCE Image
Image

Game remains a show-stopping floor-dominating belter. Subway floors so gorgeous you could eat off 'em. CHE BELLA, MACARONI, ARRIVEDERCI Image

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