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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:56 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
Posts: 212
BIL wrote:
Out of curiosity, how's your input device's responsiveness?


I use the best regarded PS1 USB adapter in the old shoryuken.com:

Image

Really happy with it, no matter what I play.


Quote:
clobbering them with a Tatsumaki instead will free up a lot of seconds. Also, the majority of them are boss-types that either can't be grappled, or will break your grapples until worn down.


But even if we count the Tatsumaki as a necessary move, there's the kick when jumping, the advancing kick, the elbow, or even the knee attack when the enemy recovers - all a waste.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:15 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
But even if we count the Tatsumaki as a necessary move, there's the kick when jumping, the advancing kick, the elbow, or even the knee attack when the enemy recovers - all a waste.


The regular jumpkick, elbow and knee actually all have uses. The former two are mostly for getting in deep. The latter's timing is difficult enough that I don't currently rely on it, but I've seen others make good use of it.

>Jumpkick is a nice low-risk knockdown on Burnovs, even launched from on-axis. Tatsumaki will often be countered or ducked, to disastrous effect. In that case I was nervous about being forced too low down the platform, so I just backed off and reset the situation.

>Elbow is an excellent safe knockdown on Abores, whose range will brutally punish both jump-ins, as well as even slightly mistimed sidekicks. 50% HP per shoulder ram. :shock: It's also just a good quick knockdown in general - great for freeing up space VS stage 3's ruthlessly backstabbing Burnov duo.

Like just about any grounded attack in this game, it's critical you launch it from slightly off-axis, so the enemy "runs into" it. Abore's range completely outclasses yours, on-axis.

Also, this is always good for a laugh. Image

>Knee is tricky to time, but it does good damage, can't be ducked or countered, and instantly staggers for an easy finisher. This guy uses it really well VS Doppelganger, if my memory serves. I prefer the slightly riskier, but infinitely easier to execute off-axis sidekick. But since Doople escapes faster as his HP drops, and every escape means another Raging Demon to dodge, it's no free lunch.

Also, it just looks and feels br00tal. Enemy's struggling to their feet - WHAM! Full-blast knee to the solar plexus. Image I tend to get them accidentally VS Willy, but liked the image so much I made it my current run's thumbnail.

Image

^ I approve of the PCE-CD version basing its FC-styled Flying Knee on that frame!

The advancing roundhouse, yeah, that one's superfluous. Easily-countered while on-axis, and slower than the elbow while off. I'd say it needed to cover more ground, and quicker, to be a viable knockdown, but the normal jumpkick does that just fine too (on anyone but Abore, who it's suicidal to attack head-on).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:57 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:


I probably got Contra mixed-up with some other game, but I could sworn there was one arcade game that defaults to Easy on the factory settings.

I know the official factory settings of Final Fight sets the number of lives to two starting lives and only one extend, but almost every console port of the game ignores this and sets extends to every 200,000 points as default.

BIL wrote:
I've heard from several sources (including you Jonny, IIRC?) that MAME's rolling mine behaviour is broken, while the ACA release properly replicates the PCB. Here's one report offhand, with PCB vs MAME footage. Out of curiosity, which versions are you comparing, Jeneki?

For some reason the romsets used by MAME for every version of Contra is missing a certain rom and nobody has ever bothered to make a proper dump. The ACA version of Contra uses its own rom dump, as does every ACA release by Hamster, which is why it's the only Contra port with accurate behavior.


Last edited by Jonny2x4 on Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:53 pm 


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Aha, that's what I recalled. There's also Omega Fighter, whose enemy AI was boned in MAME until relatively recently. AFAIK the ACA release has 'em blasting from the outset just like the PCB.
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Last edited by BIL on Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:54 pm 


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Thanks all. That explains the behavior I'm seeing nicely.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:01 pm 


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Well, I made good use of the COVID-19 lockdown and finally cleared Elevator Action Returns (Sega Saturn version), a game that I always loved for its style and music but somehow never spent real quality time with.

Image

Image

My closing thoughts:

- As far as I can tell Edie Burret is by far the best character to pick.

- The game may seem a bit slow and stiff in the beginning, but once you know what you're doing and how melee works you'll actually be blazing through the stages like a counterterrorism ninja. The game then feels like a playground for you to experiment with more and more elaborate ways to dispense of the game's hapless goons.

- It's a bit of a shame there are no real bosses (except for the final one and perhaps the stage 3 rush). The Outfoxies proves it can be done for this type of game. ;)

- In principle, I like the scoring mechanic where you get more points for melee and grenade kills and the lights-out multiplier, but it seems like attempting a high scoring run would actually be quite boring, milking respawning enemies until the time runs out, etc. Could be a very interesting game to speedrun though.

- There are a few lulls in the action here or there that are kind of missed opportunities, imo, like the two consecutive hazmat suit rushes in stage 2 and the long elevator descent in the final mission (just take the middle elevator and crouch and you'll be fine). The hazmat scenes (another one in stage 3) are big scoring areas, but I feel placing them later in the game and with a bit more challenge would've been more rewarding.

- Other than the above points I really can't find much wrong with the game. It's unique, varies, very addictive, and extremely well designed. Presentation-wise the game is obviously top-notch and the music is out of this world. I'd go as far as to say it's one of the best video game OSTs ever, a true classic.

- There a quite a few secrets hidden around the game, but one still has me puzzled: There's a dude sitting on the toilet in stage 4. If you kill him he drops a health item. Anybody know how to reach his area?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:57 pm 


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CIT wrote:
- As far as I can tell Edie Burret is by far the best character to pick.


Same - her blistering shot rate and massive bomb radius make shutting down chunks of screen trivial. It's been long enough that I can't recall her weaknesses offhand, but if I'm remembering her lower HP correctly, it's a non-issue when nothing lives long enough to attack you. I actually wonder if she might be an "EZmode" character, but she's so fun to use I never cared to investigate. :mrgreen: Running knee lift to the jaw feels great, too. Crack! (I do also like Karte's stiff backfist CQC - whap!)

Quote:
- The game may seem a bit slow and stiff in the beginning, but once you know what you're doing and how melee works you'll actually be blazing through the stages like a counterterrorism ninja. The game then feels like a playground for you to experiment with more and more elaborate ways to dispense of the game's hapless goons.


That sense of total control over the stages is really the soul of the game. The omniscient POV, inquisitive AI and walloping violence feel like you're choreographing some unholy Mission Impossible/Home Alone crossover in real-time, to the smoothest spy flick soundtrack ever. :cool:

Spoiler: show
Image


*automatic gunfire* *screams* *detonation, shattering glass*
*sax solo*


Out of curiosity, have you tried the max difficulty? EAR is one of the very few arcade games I've found where the effect is not only noticeable but beneficial. It basically omits that generous pause between enemies spotting you and attacking - makes several previously-sedate areas a lot tenser (the baggage area that concludes st2, with the hazmat guys popping out from behind scenery comes to mind). The toughest segments take on an almost Rolling Thunder urgency, though not to the extent that the game loses its signature sense of mischievous cool.

Speaking of Super Contra a page back, was amused to notice this in Metal Slug X's ACA manual.

Image

Jonny2x4 wrote:
As for Super Contra
*The game allows you to upgrade your weapon by picking the same power-up twice in a row. Originally the developers felt that the enhanced Machine Gun was overpowered, since it's capable of killing most bosses in a matter of seconds. But they decided to leave it as it is after witnessing players enjoying it too much as they yelled "KIMOCHII" while playing. [kimochii means "feels good".]


Image

(from this page)

Also, Exciting Hour. Technos. :lol: Witness the first enemy of the first (?) beltscroller (The Big Pro Wrestling doesn't scroll! Image).

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:24 am 



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BIL wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:
But even if we count the Tatsumaki as a necessary move, there's the kick when jumping, the advancing kick, the elbow, or even the knee attack when the enemy recovers - all a waste.


The regular jumpkick, elbow and knee actually all have uses. The former two are mostly for getting in deep. The latter's timing is difficult enough that I don't currently rely on it, but I've seen others make good use of it.

>Jumpkick is a nice low-risk knockdown on Burnovs, even launched from on-axis. Tatsumaki will often be countered or ducked, to disastrous effect. In that case I was nervous about being forced too low down the platform, so I just backed off and reset the situation.

>Elbow is an excellent safe knockdown on Abores, whose range will brutally punish both jump-ins, as well as even slightly mistimed sidekicks. 50% HP per shoulder ram. :shock: It's also just a good quick knockdown in general - great for freeing up space VS stage 3's ruthlessly backstabbing Burnov duo.


I wanted to give it a try to see if I could reach the Abores duo, but I couldn't. Anyway, at least until that point (which is very far, isn't it?), you don't need anything else than boots and the subsequent rising kick. I've been using that for all the bosses and it works (Time at 65). Some may reach you from time to time (the Abore is the most dangerous for this, indeed, but you only need to knockdown him once in the second stage), but I find it safer than any other technique. So the game is clearly underdeveloped (also) in this regard.




Jonny2x4 wrote:
Bassa-Bassa wrote:


I probably got Contra mixed-up with some other game, but I could sworn there was one arcade game that defaults to Easy on the factory settings.

I know the official factory settings of Final Fight sets the number of lives to two starting lives and only one extend, but almost every console port of the game ignores this and sets extends to every 200,000 points as default.


The only port that matters by Capcom themselves is the X68000 one, though (released after the Super Famicom/SNES versions), and they stuck to the PCB settings:

Image




Quote:
For some reason the romsets used by MAME for every version of Contra is missing a certain rom and nobody has ever bothered to make a proper dump.


Is this the official version/known by the devs? Sounds a bit silly if that's the case when so much money has gone to preserve rare PCBs or media. Too silly for 2020, knowing all the people involved in the Mame project, in fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:28 pm 


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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
I wanted to give it a try to see if I could reach the Abores duo, but I couldn't. Anyway, at least until that point (which is very far, isn't it?), you don't need anything else than boots and the subsequent rising kick.


To clarify, Abore = Arnold / T-800. If you're seeing two of them onscreen at any point, you're doing it wrong. Image The only boss-types you absolutely have to fight 2-on-1 are st3's Burnov/Iron Mask duo, at the elevator, and st4's opening Chins.

You could fight the Abores that appear near the end of stage 4 together, I guess, but there's little reason to (especially as an O'hara is sandwiched between them). Usually I would say "it looks badass" is more than reason enough in an arcade game (see below) - but with x2 Abores' crushing slowdown boosting your reaction window by 1000%, while bloating the replay's running time and robbing the game of its vital terseness, I wouldn't say it looks badass at all (I've tried it).

Quote:
I've been using that for all the bosses and it works (Time at 65). Some may reach you from time to time (the Abore is the most dangerous for this, indeed, but you only need to knockdown him once in the second stage), but I find it safer than any other technique. So the game is clearly underdeveloped (also) in this regard.


Depends what consistency you're going for, I guess. If you want no-death clears, even tiny mistakes versus boss-types can get you killed in a heartbeat. You can also die by attrition, since DD2AC restores only some of your HP between stages. Tatsumaki will kill enemies faster, jumpkick and elbow let you bypass their guard more safely - all things that significantly boost your odds of survival. You'll look cooler too. :wink:

On that note... provided a move isn't outright worthless (see DD2AC's advancing roundhouse), I get a lot of aesthetic enjoyment out of Technos's gritty fighting systems, even if they're often quite flawed (DD2FC and DD Advance are the two games of theirs I would call genuinely excellent). Outboxing DD1AC's enemies is ridiculously unsafe and difficult, compared to spamming the invincible Elbow, but killing a boss with a carefully-landed kick to the head is a lot more satisfying than blatantly abusing his AI.

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image


^ I use DD2AC's basic crescent kick finisher sometimes too, despite the Tatsumaki providing a "Super Finisher" DD1AC lacks, just because the animation of Billy dropping his heel square on the enemy's face looks cool. Homies be lucky to chew jello after eating that. Image

Quote:
Is this the official version/known by the devs? Sounds a bit silly if that's the case when so much money has gone to preserve rare PCBs or media. Too silly for 2020, knowing all the people involved in the Mame project, in fact.


Stuff has gone unfixed in MAME for long periods before, for whatever reason. Price of the project's massive scope, I guess. Rayforce's st3 midboss had non-existent lasers for over a decade, and I'm not sure if Elevator Action Returns' lights were ever fixed. Omega Fighter's zako AI was neutered until a couple years ago. Prior to that, some wondered why the Japanese STG fanbase consider it so hard.

I used to think AC Contra's base stages were just a bit shitty. :lol: Much more interesting with the proper enemy behaviour.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:48 pm 



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BIL wrote:
To clarify, Abore = Arnold / T-800. If you're seeing two of them onscreen at any point, you're doing it wrong. Image The only boss-types you absolutely have to fight 2-on-1 are st3's Burnov/Iron Mask duo, at the elevator, and st4's opening Chins.


Hmm my bad. Don't ask me why, but I remembered this linked passage with two of them:
Quote:
>Elbow is an excellent safe knockdown on Abores,




Quote:
On that note... provided a move isn't outright worthless (see DD2AC's advancing roundhouse), I get a lot of aesthetic enjoyment out of Technos's gritty fighting systems, even if they're often quite flawed (DD2FC and DD Advance are the two games of theirs I would call genuinely excellent). Outboxing DD1AC's enemies is ridiculously unsafe and difficult, compared to spamming the invincible Elbow, but killing a boss with a carefully-landed kick to the head is a lot more satisfying than blatantly abusing his AI.

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image


I agree, but sadly I'm not the type that plays artistically (or under artificial conditions), so the elbow is all I bothered with, hence, DD will always be a flawed game in my eyes (despite having loved it).



Quote:
Quote:
Is this the official version/known by the devs? Sounds a bit silly if that's the case when so much money has gone to preserve rare PCBs or media. Too silly for 2020, knowing all the people involved in the Mame project, in fact.


Stuff has gone unfixed in MAME for long periods before, for whatever reason. Price of the project's massive scope, I guess. Rayforce's st3 midboss had non-existent lasers for over a decade, and I'm not sure if Elevator Action Returns' lights were ever fixed. Omega Fighter's zako AI was neutered until a couple years ago. Prior to that, some wondered why the Japanese STG fanbase consider it so hard.


Yeah, I specifically meant if it's a case of undumped roms known by the devs. They just don't keep anything undumped just because, specially for such an important title (another thing altogether is getting them fixing bugs in the code).

EAR's lights are still to get fixed. The whole F3 system is a beast nobody dared to seriously touch after the first years. Too bad they don't realize the importance of its games.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:04 pm 


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Oh yeah, DD1AC is flawed to hell and back. As far as formative brawling goes, Kunio totally outclasses it.

I wonder how/if ACA will handle the mid-90s hardware... they've done really well with Konami's TMNT board and IREM's M92, at least (Detana Twinbee and Kaitei Daisensou run beautifully on PS4, I've retired my PS1 ports to the shelf with Arcade Gears: Image Fight & X-Multiply and Gradius Deluxe Pack). OTOH, even M2 needed a patch to get Darius Gaiden perfect on the Wii Cozmic collection.

I hope they consider F3, given their excellent track record so far (and perhaps going back to the 32X and Saturn, with ex-Rutubo peeps Gotch having developed a large chunk of the current lineup... dunno if they're still involved, but the newer stuff most definitely hasn't suffered). EAR and Bubble Symphony are already near-perfect on Saturn, but I'm a sucker for modern releases that zap away those (already minimal) load times. Hard to go back to Saturn Garegga after Rev2016 where you just select a machine and vroom!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:47 pm 



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Mame is likely a good reference - stuff like Detana Twinbee and Kaitei Daisensou has had essentially perfect emulation in it for years and the hardware must be well documented or straightforward enough. Get into 32 bit territory and I don't see anybody but M2 with the requiered proficiency and will, particularly for the F3 system.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:13 am 


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BIL wrote:
Same - her blistering shot rate and massive bomb radius make shutting down chunks of screen trivial. It's been long enough that I can't recall her weaknesses offhand, but if I'm remembering her lower HP correctly, it's a non-issue when nothing lives long enough to attack you. I actually wonder if she might be an "EZmode" character, but she's so fun to use I never cared to investigate. :mrgreen: Running knee lift to the jaw feels great, too. Crack! (I do also like Karte's stiff backfist CQC - whap!)


Edie's bomb radius isn't as good as Karte's or Jad's, but the flames they leave behind make them really useful as traps you can set up. A lot of my survival strat in the final mission revolved around preemptively plopping fire grenades in front of some inconveniently located doors in order to immediately nip any shenanigans in the bud while I shoot and kick my way through the remaining riffraff. Incidentally, this might be common knowledge, but all characters also have a custom combo that's quite useful against the more sturdy goons — Karte's is AA, Edie and Jad's is AB.

Quote:
Out of curiosity, have you tried the max difficulty? EAR is one of the very few arcade games I've found where the effect is not only noticeable but beneficial. It basically omits that generous pause between enemies spotting you and attacking - makes several previously-sedate areas a lot tenser (the baggage area that concludes st2, with the hazmat guys popping out from behind scenery comes to mind). The toughest segments take on an almost Rolling Thunder urgency, though not to the extent that the game loses its signature sense of mischievous cool.


Haven't tried it yet as I usually don't mess around with the difficulty settings, but thanks for the heads up. Seems like hard mode just makes everyone behave more like in the final stage in normal mode? I'll have to give it a try. :D

BIL wrote:
I hope they consider F3, given their excellent track record so far


We can dream, right? Still waiting for that Kaiser Knuckle port. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:48 pm 


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BIL wrote:

Stuff has gone unfixed in MAME for long periods before, for whatever reason. Price of the project's massive scope, I guess. Rayforce's st3 midboss had non-existent lasers for over a decade, and I'm not sure if Elevator Action Returns' lights were ever fixed. Omega Fighter's zako AI was neutered until a couple years ago. Prior to that, some wondered why the Japanese STG fanbase consider it so hard.

I used to think AC Contra's base stages were just a bit shitty. :lol: Much more interesting with the proper enemy behaviour.


The most laughable thing about this is that despite the fact that Hamster made a properly-emulated version of Contra for the PS4, when M2 included the game again as part of Konami's Arcade Archives, they used the same faulty ROMs as MAME. In fact, every officially-licensed emulated port of AC Contra since the Gesen Zoku version on the PS2 has been based on the MAME ROM dumps.

It's not just Contra though, another Konami game titled Devestators was also based on the MAME ROM set when it was released on the Xbox 360 as part of the short-lived Game Room service. Game Kommander, who apparently has access to the actual PCB, compiled a list of emulation inaccuracies in the Game Room version and they hold true to the MAME version as well.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/hzk/kommander/garukaemu.html

I actually find DD1AC fun to 1CC when you forbid yourself from using the elbow. In fact, I cleared the game the PS4 version just the other day. Even though the game is much tougher, there are still some tricks to exploit in the game, like the fact that when you fight two bad guys at the same time, one will always try to move to your other side. You can intercept that one easily, especially if it's one of the small-fry enemies.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:55 pm 


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I hope Devastators comes to ACA at some point. Such a badass example of the 80s Rambo zeitgeist. I should've included it in that brace of other forgotten Konami AC action games like Iron Horse, Labyrinth Runner and Battlantis.

Jonny2x4 wrote:
Even though the game is much tougher, there are still some tricks to exploit in the game, like the fact that when you fight two bad guys at the same time, one will always try to move to your other side. You can intercept that one easily, especially if it's one of the small-fry enemies.


This is what drew me in, too - even without its most infamous exploit, there's plenty of other stuff to take advantage of. I like leaving weapons on the floor at certain points, it really screws with the AI's backstabbing routine.

Image

Scrambling for the metal bat while his homie got thrashed, kicked square in the temple and chucked down a hole with 'im. Image THIS BE MY KINDA SHIT Image

Even the elbow can actually be used "normally" - I basically reserve it for escaping pincers, presumably its intended use. There's also a really badass speedkill I picked up from a YT replay - couple of grapple knees, let 'em free, then BAM! Elbow to the head. :cool:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:56 pm 



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https://mametesters.org/view.php?id=5725

Quote:
I suspect this problem may have something to do with not emulating the 007452 math chip.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 am 


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I tried Contra in the DS Konami collection from M2 and it also has the incorrect rolling mines behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:09 am 


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I've just experienced the most brutal moment in all of videogames.

I was in the mood to play some Famicom so I plugged my oldschool multicart in and started messing around


I played Legend of Kage and paid more attention to the powerups and tried to catch as many as possible.


Spotted a 2-pixel wide red thing that I wasn't even sure was part of the background, but it seemed like it maybe wasn't


Picked it up and the sky starting flashing, this bone-chilling howling sound was screeching and piles upon piles upon piles of dead bodies started raining down and slamming into the ground, for like a whole minute chrono. while the banshee-howling sfx kept echoing the whole time

I'm still shook, Lol!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:16 pm 


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Haha, that was one of the formative images of my gaming childhood. :mrgreen: Didn't actually play Kage that much, but coming in from Mario's Hard Gay Bop, a torrential downpour of corpses in a howling thunderstorm was always gonna leave its mark. Image Even now, when I manage to MAKE IT RAIN in the Metal Slugs I'm thinking "Yeah! Just like Kage!"
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:44 pm 



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Re: EAR.

This and Darius Gaiden are probably the most recent games I may play these days, most of the time (kidding! I am probably overlooking some other title from '96-'97 :mrgreen: ).

...I cannot believe that EAR is now 25 years old (well, 26, right? The SS port should be from 1995). This is one of those games that will be forever etched in my memory, if only because of the several layers of auto-biografic memories that I have developed when periodically playing it, over the decades.

Sentimentality aside, the OST is possibly the best work by YACK, and the highest peak of Taito/Zuntata's VCO philosophy ("Vision, Conception, O...something". The Scitron OST's cover reports the acronym: I don't have it with me, sorry).

I believe that Taito F3's titles followed a precise design philosophy in which OST, game system and visual design had to converge into creating an immersive experience.

EAR was not simply a novel re-iteration of EA, but apparently tried to create a noir, anime- and manga-esque milieu with cinematic-like action, and the very classic "Taito bitter ending". The OST is just...perfect, for a noir setting. I would articulate the point more, but I imagine that it is easy to guess why (I believe all of this).

I may agree that it is pretty obvious what the game creators wanted to achieve (and what they may have forgotten to add, game-wise), but I feel that just celebrating the game some more is a forgivable sin of mine, given the nature of this thread :wink:

Also, no love for Jad the Taff? You are all too easily swayed by boobies, I swear!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:07 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Sentimentality aside, the OST is possibly the best work by YACK, and the highest peak of Taito/Zuntata's VCO philosophy ("Vision, Conception, O...something". The Scitron OST's cover reports the acronym: I don't have it with me, sorry).


Vision - Conception - Origination

Can't tell you what exactly they meant by that, but either way it's cool. :mrgreen:

Quote:
I believe that Taito F3's titles followed a precise design philosophy in which OST, game system and visual design had to converge into creating an immersive experience.


I most certainly agree with that, but even outside of the F3 lineup Taito's great strength was always world building and giving you that sense of fascination and mystique around a game. Only Irem came close to this kind of dedication to design coherence.

Quote:
Also, no love for Jad the Taff? You are all too easily swayed by boobies, I swear!


I just don't have the patience for his sluggish gait. He's cool though, kind of makes the game feel like a RoboCop movie. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:13 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
Also, no love for Jad the Taff? You are all too easily swayed by boobies, I swear!


Edie's supermodel tresses are her most striking feature imo (outside of the intermissions anyway Image). Perhaps the era's most L'Oreal-worthy running animation next to SOTN's Alucard, but his hair isn't very healthy-looking!

I think I've used Jad even less than Karte, but I did like his ability to literally run enemies over.

Some cool design docs in the VCO booklet indeed, as expected of Taito! Surprised none of this was in the Saturn booklet. (click for full res - scans from the superlative and invaluable VGMdb)

Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Image

Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:55 pm 


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BrianC wrote:
I tried Contra in the DS Konami collection from M2 and it also has the incorrect rolling mines behavior.


Like I wrote in the previous post, all the emulated ports of AC Contra reproduced this flaw that was never in the actual PCB. The PS2 Gesen version, the Xbox 360 Live Arcade version, the Nintendo DS version on the Konami Arcade Collection thing and even the version included in the Contra Anniversary Collection. They just used the same ROM sets from MAME without bothered to check for accuracy except Hamster with their stand-alone PS4 port.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:21 pm 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
BrianC wrote:
I tried Contra in the DS Konami collection from M2 and it also has the incorrect rolling mines behavior.


Like I wrote in the previous post, all the emulated ports of AC Contra reproduced this flaw that was never in the actual PCB. The PS2 Gesen version, the Xbox 360 Live Arcade version, the Nintendo DS version on the Konami Arcade Collection thing and even the version included in the Contra Anniversary Collection. They just used the same ROM sets from MAME without bothered to check for accuracy except Hamster with their stand-alone PS4 port.


I know you mentioned other versions, but I thought it was worth checking anyway since I was curious if it was M2's or Konamii's botch. Good thing that PS4 version exists. I noticed Mr. Goemon and Scramble updated on PS4 recently. The update description suggests something changed with the emulation. I'm not sure exactly what changed, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:10 pm 


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I thought BIL would get a kick out of this. Some of you guys probably know this already, but Kunio-kun and Double Dragon II on the Game Boy are essentially the same game, but apparently there's a glitch where you can play both games at the same time via link cable. However, because the enemy placement between both versions are not a 1.1 match, there will be instances where the synchronization will break off and if one side clears a level before the other, both games will reset back to the title screen. Thankfully you can use the continue option from the title menu to resume where you left off.
https://twitter.com/_moshix2/status/1250023900626313217


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:51 pm 


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You know me well. :mrgreen: Interesting stuff!

Poor Kunio and Riki really never made it outside of Japan back in the day, huh? I'd forgotten that even Billy Lee himself can be added to Mr. K, Alex, Sam and Crash, among the myriad other characters localisation splintered Kunio into. I've wondered...

Maybe giving mascot status to a brawling juvenile delinquent with a knack for face-shattering violence (even one with a heart of gold who hospitalises chumps strictly in the name of justice, or sanctioned sport!) wouldn't have flown as well outside of Japan, haha. We do like our vigilantes old enough to vote (or collect social security! Paul Kersey tactical vengeance action game pls! the "used car" item is pricey, but deploy it in the right area and the mooks will flock to it for easy dispatch!).

Or might Technos have gotten an early in on the 90s' "RADICAL TUDE" zeitgeist? Then again... Kunio's sort is more the antidote to gratuitous snark. I'm a grown-ass mayne and I'm already imagining our young roughneck earnestly asking Sonic if he's been eyeing his bird, not liking Sanic's response much, then caning him with a lead pipe and kneeing his balls until the furry creep collapses in agony before a hail of mounted punches renders him comatose - all while Knuckles dials 911 in horror at the street price of idle sass in Tokyo's meanest ward! :shock: Definitely a potential bad influence on the youth! Image
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Last edited by BIL on Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:52 pm 



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BIL wrote:
Some cool design docs in the VCO booklet indeed, as expected of Taito! Surprised none of this was in the Saturn booklet. (click for full res - scans from the superlative and invaluable VGMdb)

Spoiler: show
Image

Image

Image

Image


Cool indeed! Why can't I see those in the link you posted? Would love to get the full set.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:57 pm 


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Unfortunately you have to register to see galleries - IIRC it's free (been a good twelve years since I made an account though!).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:02 pm 



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I see, thanks. Well worth a try.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:11 pm 


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The Lightbringer OST also has extensive bios for the four player characters. I might get around to translating it one of these days.


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