shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:11 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9203 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 303, 304, 305, 306, 307  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:53 pm 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3028
Speaking of DECO games: did we ever discuss Edward Randy? I am trying to understand if I have overlooked a great game, a stinker, or something in between for too long.
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:05 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Never played it myself, but I recall Skykid posting a fair bit about it over the years. Recently reminded of his posts in the dream game hacks thread.

Status quo DECO for me: Looks cool, no home release (that I'd be willing to buy, anyway!). Their good-to-excellent MD conversions excepted, OFC. I hope a few more of the GMode-owned titles (Randy being one of them) make it to Arcade Archives.
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:30 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3028
Thanks BIRU. While randomly adding lines to posts somewhere else (eh!), I was also playing snippets of this game.

I agree with Skykid's post and suggestions for a dreamhack, at last after a few credits. Still, the design is just plain fantastic, and together with Boogie Wings, it makes an exceptional pair of "Rag-time games". I really wished that I had a chance to play this in the arcade.

Since you are a true believer: is it me, or the main character is more than just reminiscent of Joseph Joestar? :wink:
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Randorama wrote:
Since you are a true believer: is it me, or the main character is more than just reminiscent of Joseph Joestar? :wink:


I almost added that with the MC, the creepy Azteca stuff, and all the GERMAN SCIENCE ("DOITSU NO KAGAKU WA SEKAI ICHIII!"), it's always looked like "The Real Battle Tendency Simulator" to me. :mrgreen:

Image

Plane crash, very Joseph. Image
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:16 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3028
Oh dear, and it's a 1991 (1990?) game. Will report more when I will play some.
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:23 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2401
Location: Wigan, England.
Sumez wrote:
What's the "pro" take on Metal Slug 7 vs XX?

From what I can gather from casual internet reports, XX is mostly just a graphical upgrade (doesn't look much different to me though) with a couple of additional optional areas thrown in.
Doesn't seem like it'd made a big difference.

I could just get XX from Xbox Live, but looking at physical releases, I'm biased towards the DS (7) over the PSP (XX) simple from not relying on mechanical media.


Not a pro take by any means, but I enjoyed XX. As mentioned, it definitely feels more of a consolified 'platform shooter' rather at times rather than the run & gun of old. I also veered between enjoying the new mechanics, and thinking that MS had just gotten too complicated. Odd entry, but decent.

I notice ACA 5 is available, not sure I ever played that.
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5477
Location: Denmarku
I don't think it's a very hot take to claim the [Metal Slug] series peaked with the third game, and every subsequent one was extremely superfluous. :P

Looking at the evolution of the series, they pretty much locked themselves in that way. The first game was a visual feast, and still remains a masterpiece. Every time I put it on, it blows me away with its feeling of chaos and destruction, as well as amazing setpieces.
The second game and its immediate remake do the only thing you can possibly expect from a sequel - dial things up to 11, and addresses some of the issues from the first game. Setpieces become more far out (mummies, aliens, etc.), and the variety in the graphics is even more breathtaking and amazing. More different slug types, but less time spent in them, means more of the solid on-foot action. It's no wonder most people still consider this the perfect Metal Slug game.
So what do you do for the third and "final" game, when the only way forward is dialing up to 12? First of all, throw in even more setpieces, and new creative enemy types, but add branching paths to avoid dragging out the stages *too* much. Until the game just takes a major twist for the final stage which changes up everything. At this point that's also where I guess the game manages to separate the fanbase. For a lot of people, a 1CC simply becomes too taxing and exhausting to work for. I'm hopefully gonna have a go at it some time later this year, but I'd probably be fine at just settling at Metal Slug X.
Metal Slug 3 is amazing, but I can't really see the series going anywhere else after that, and I think at least 4, 5 and 6 prove that pretty well. Every time you see that black attack helicopter from the first stage in the first game show up with the exact same sprite and movement pattern, in a game released 10 year later, it's hard not to think that maybe it's time for something else.

As much as I'd like a new "real" Metal Slug, what I'd like the most from that is something entirely new. I think someone in this thread or an older thread at one point suggested a more fast paced and aggressive game focused entirely on the on-foot massacre. Let's take an entirely new setting, new characters, but dig up the same old graphic artists from where ever they have been hiding, and give them a big fat stack of money, and a full year to draw whatever comes to their mind.

Yeah, it's a little too late for that now. But at least we got Demon Front. Seriously, play Demon Front!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:06 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Sumez wrote:
Metal Slug 3 is amazing, but I can't really see the series going anywhere else after that, and I think at least 4, 5 and 6 prove that pretty well. Every time you see that black attack helicopter from the first stage in the first game show up with the exact same sprite and movement pattern, in a game released 10 year later, it's hard not to think that maybe it's time for something else.


I've really warmed up to MS4 again, having gotten the ACA version on a whim. Wanted to blow off some steam after 1CCing Metal Slug 3. As always, I'm glad I stopped by. Pair this fast, hard, no-frills action with Nazca's joie de vivre, and you'd have a nice sharp rejoinder to MS3's towering excess.

Now this is a stage 1 I wanna see! TOP ROUTE FUCKIN SUCK THO (■`W´■)
Spoiler: show
Image

Pummelling tank action, of urgency seldom seen from Nazca! Partially because MS4 forgot to give its Slugs hitstun! (■`ω´■)
Spoiler: show
Image

BESIEGE NAZI WATERFALL - with tactical aggression honed yet rarely so tested by MS1-3! (■`W´■)
Spoiler: show
Image


For hardcore action/platform shooting, this is entirely on par with, sometimes superior to Nazca's games. Most impressively, its stages consistently grant Slug's trademark overkill - skilled players wreathed in fire and gore, demolished foes raining down - at a significantly tougher difficulty.

Where it's absolutely not on par, of course, is in creativity (forgivable! a return to nuts & bolts action works great post-MS3) and artistry (less so! while MS1/X/3 are immortally vivid, a frowzy sprite-hacked funk will forever dog MS4).

As is, I'll still vouch for MS4 as worthwhile and distinct, far beyond its bland presentation. Shame they couldn't have gotten the guys who did MS5's passably refreshed art to help out (while keeping them the fuck away from the stage design!).

Speaking of Nazca -

Quote:
As much as I'd like a new "real" Metal Slug, what I'd like the most from that is something entirely new. I think someone in this thread or an older thread at one point suggested a more fast paced and aggressive game focused entirely on the on-foot massacre. Let's take an entirely new setting, new characters, but dig up the same old graphic artists from where ever they have been hiding, and give them a big fat stack of money, and a full year to draw whatever comes to their mind.


RE the OG team, I was recently reminded that - quite contrary to my post here - Metal Slug 3 does indeed have a staff roll.

A rather nice one too!
Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image


Lots of key MS1 personnel: Meeher, Akio, Kozo, Andy... and of course HIYA! on sound (the trilogy's BGM gaining greater significance to me, lately - a balance of the sublime and ridiculous as fine as its artwork's). Having remembered, I no longer feel compelled to call MSX/3 the "Nazca/SNK" games. They're just Nazca with bigger budgets and the same unmistakable passion.
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:44 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3028
I have not clocked enough time on E. Rando (ehrm, Randy), but I suspect that I will completely agree with Skykid's older comments.

On a different note:

I am wondering if Dynasty Wars belongs to this thread or the belt-scroller thread. I am cross-posting to find out.

I am ranting out a short summary (like my other "short" posts) on my decades-long quest to beat Cao Cao and unify all the lands of China under the great blue sky! (?).

Thoughts?
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:52 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
All manner of sidescrolling, beltscrolling and topdown action is welcomed here - see R2RKMF (that's "run to the right killing motherfuckers") mkII / Dr Biruford Goes To School, which was implemented in fall of 2017. Image

Was gonna say, loved the Tenchi wo Kurau II post in the Final Fight thread! (which I need to add to the Index's Appendix - much to do, planning a massive update for the end of the month)
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:26 am 



Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Posts: 3028
BIL wrote:
All manner of sidescrolling, beltscrolling and topdown action is welcomed here - see R2RKMF (that's "run to the right killing motherfuckers") mkII / Dr Biruford Goes To School, which was implemented in fall of 2017. Image

Was gonna say, loved the Tenchi wo Kurau II post in the Final Fight thread! (which I need to add to the Index's Appendix - much to do, planning a massive update for the end of the month)


Good, because I am working in a very chaotic, asian manner (4 hours of stuff in one place, break of 3 hours that covers lunch, nap, a few credits and *even* training, 4 hours working somewhere else), so my posts may even be more chaotic than the usual :lol:

Just to be sure (stupid questions 1.01, ready? go!): if you index stuff, and I edit said stuff over time, will the index always point to the latest version? The TwKII post needs some cleaning up, much like the other future inordinately long blathering sessions I will post (AmE use, or BrE if I decide to blather and then transcribe).

I guess that even Speedwagon would be afraid to keep track of edited posts, if we cannot do it automatically :wink:
_________________
Chomsky, Buckminster Fuller, Yunus and Glass would have played Battle Garegga, for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Randorama wrote:
if you index stuff, and I edit said stuff over time, will the index always point to the latest version?


Sure! At least I hope so. If an indexed post is edited, that'll be taken care of automatically - the post's link (that little Image in the upper-right corner) never changes. If you make a brand new post somewhere, or if you rewrite an existing post to include new information, just PM me and I'll update the index accordingly. All very low-tech. :mrgreen:
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:48 am 


User avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2007
Posts: 262
Location: germany
Sumez wrote:

As much as I'd like a new "real" Metal Slug, what I'd like the most from that is something entirely new. I think someone in this thread or an older thread at one point suggested a more fast paced and aggressive game focused entirely on the on-foot massacre. Let's take an entirely new setting, new characters, but dig up the same old graphic artists from where ever they have been hiding, and give them a big fat stack of money, and a full year to draw whatever comes to their mind.

Yeah, it's a little too late for that now. But at least we got Demon Front. Seriously, play Demon Front!



And don't forget Dolphin Blue - a good chunck of the Metal Slug Team worked on that game & it shows. It's kinda what you want already - new characters / setting & way more fast paced.
_________________
https://twitter.com/Madstalker80

Skykid wrote:
Get ready for the big bad world to fuck you up the ass in ways you never believed possible.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:56 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2401
Location: Wigan, England.
Oh nice surprise to hear about MS4 - I guess I'd been kind of brainwashed by the gaming press into believing that anything after 3 was terrible, so as a result never played anything other than XX. I'll pick it up at some point, when it's confirmed if I'm going to be living off of SSP anyways :|
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:00 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
That brings back memories - the first I heard of MS4 (and really Slug itself, being a full-time PC gamer from the mid 90s to early 00s) was EDGE Magazine's AES review. Which was, like their Ikaruga, DDP DOJ and Psyvariar 2 reviews, along with their 8/16/32bit specials from around the same time, surprisingly well-informed and balanced. Pulled no punches WRT to arcade gaming's austerity, while conveying the immense value that held for the suitably-inclined.

IIRC, at least one old regular of this place reviewed for them. Wouldn't surprise me if they were involved in some or all. Some good lads on the staff at that point, those issues I collected while studying in the UK were fairly instrumental to snapping me out of my AAA-induced funk. (a big change from Raiden DX's PS1 review, which saw the magazine brain itself with every "ITS JUST RAIDEN II LMAO" rake in the yard, Sideshow Bob-style Image)

The review concluded that MS4 is pastiche, but an effective one. Pretty much. When I tried Nazca's stuff after spending several months nailing a then-herculean 2CC on MS4, I was absolutely floored by their artistic superiority, and couldn't even look at MS4 for a while. Action-wise, though, I didn't feel like my time had been wasted in the least.

Also, TFW when you want ACA Guevara, but is actually FORMATION Z. Image I could swear I was playing something by perennial mid-carders Jaleco recently, and exclaiming "Wow! I've finally found something of theirs I love, rather than mildly like or tolerate!" However, the name is escaping me. Hmm. Like most of their 80s shooting action, this looks agreeable, but not especially compelling. I'm mostly intrigued by it appearing, at a glance, to be a sidescrolling analogue to IREM's quite excellent Senjou/Xevious hybrid Youjyuden.
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:58 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2401
Location: Wigan, England.
I've just recently had to throw a huge collection of EDGE in the bin, because they were clogging up the place and I couldn't get anyone to take them off my hands. Kept the first 20 issues, any specials, and the 200th issue (Pilotwings cover). I've also got a nice set of 100 postcards from subscribing at some point.

I remember the DX review.... one of the few low points of the mag at that time. Didn't they also award a pretty paltry score to Gunstar Heroes?
And of course, there's the legendary DOOM review....
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:52 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
I missed the Gunstar review, but I do recall their SNES Dracula X one - which not unreasonably docked it for being two years behind Rondo, but also gave the impression it was a straight conversion (and thus slandered the PCE game by proxy, as the reviewer's chief complaint was a lack of innovation... love or hate the SNES game, it's undeniably as straitlaced as 16bit Dracula gets).

No idea if the writer knew better, but in hindsight it reminds me of Raiden DX's amateur hour. See also referring to Tatsujin Ou as a VING rather than Toaplan game, though that one got a positive review.

They did give SOTN a glowing review, a few years later - not unlike a lot of magazines, admittedly (EGM gave it game of the year). I actually can't recall seeing a review that trashed it for being 2D, at least in North America. But given EDGE/Next Generation's whole "cutting edge" shtick at the time, I appreciated that they didn't merely tolerate but actually celebrated a 2D game.

Oof, gonna be a hell no on Formation Z, methinks. Beautiful clean, bold visuals, and a cool concept (earliest example of the charge shot I can recall), but the handling is sloppier than I have time for. I welcome a degree of heft with mecha sidescrollers, but it has to be calibrated to the action, or it just becomes a pain in the ass. Don't expect proto-Wolf Fang here.
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Last edited by BIL on Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5477
Location: Denmarku
Marc wrote:
I've just recently had to throw a huge collection of EDGE in the bin, because they were clogging up the place and I couldn't get anyone to take them off my hands. Kept the first 20 issues, any specials, and the 200th issue (Pilotwings cover). I've also got a nice set of 100 postcards from subscribing at some point.

Aw that's too bad. I always loved Edge's coverage and wouldn't mind having them lying around (can't imagine the shipping costs though XD)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:28 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Oh goddamnit! Some shitbirds saw Datsugoku ("Prison Break") on the ACA schedule, and decided it was Konami's Jailbreak. :O

AKA Manhattan 24 Bunsho: New York City 151, Nishi Dai 100 Street / Manhattan 24th Precinct: NYPD Station 151, West 100th Street Image

Image

BLAOW! HOW U LIEK ME NAO (■`W´■)

I was looking forward to it, kinda. Never actually played it, I just want to see more of those orphaned mid/late-80s Konami arcade games (see also Iron Horse, Battlantis and Labyrinth Runner). They've made a decent start with A-JAX and Flak Attack.

By the by, Labyrinth Runner's Trap of Octopus is a motherfucker. Sounds like Motorhead guesting a Loony Toons episode Image

---

And now, I'm going to risk committing exactly the same mush-mouthery I just castigated above! :o I think ACA Sunset Riders has been announced? Hell yeah. Also Trigon, one of those arcade-only Konami gems I was talking about! Looks like Gemini Wing might be tentative, but that'd be superb too. Edging nearer and nearer to Mystic Warriors and WILD FANG

http://burymewithmymoney.com/

Glad Guevara's still confirmed, really looking forward to that after having a blast with TANK, Ikari and Dogo. Obada-san knows his topdown rotary shooting. Dunno what to think about Ikari III, I like the FC interpretation but have always heard mixed impressions of the arcade. Looks a lot slower-paced, if anything. After the dud of AC Datsugoku I'll be wait n' see, I think.

Image
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2676
Location: Brooklyn NY
Played Iron Horse a few years back at Funspot. I never knew it existed till that moment.

It was interesting in a good way, but I say that with only a few credits played. It was a bit obtuse and in my short time with it I'm pretty sure I missed a few mechanics. What I thought was cool - you could move in and out Bonanza Brothers style and I remember the buttons on the cab being different. Would I play it again if I had the chance? Maybe.

Jailbreak is a run n' gun. You have three weapons - pistol for zako on foot, tear gas - for snipers in windows, and grenades - for things they'll try to run you over with. It has been years, but there are definitely a few gotcha moments. Worth a try for sure.

That said if you want a simple straight forward old west romp on a train I would say go with Express Raider.
_________________
"Yes, That Should Work."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:22 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Stevens wrote:
That said if you want a simple straight forward old west romp on a train I would say go with Express Raider.


Holy shit, thanks - been trying to recall that one for decades! :shock: Saw it once as a kid on holidays, but every time I looked it up I'd get Iron Horse or Challenger (FC).

Iron Horse makes me think of Konami's NES-exclusive Lone Ranger. IIRC, one of its myriad game styles was a beltscrolling traincar battle. I may be way off there... I know for sure it had sidescrolling, topdown and first-person action segments, plus a typically ARPG-styled overworld. EDIT: Ha! Got 'em! Man, almost looks like a conversion that never was. I wonder if that was a deliberate reference.

I suppose beltscrolling is a great format for trains n' planes (them seats!). And automobiles, ala Breakthru! Bringin' it back to DECO arcades AND NES-exclusive cartridges, sheeit I'm good Image
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:32 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Posts: 236
BIL wrote:
Image

Hey Ilpalazzo, finally got around to watching your Saigo 1CC! Sorry it took so goddamn long, classic case of too much good stuff to do. :mrgreen: Hell of a finish versus Boney-sama. I liked the commentary!


Thanks! I really prefer to get commentary-less runs down, but it's kind of hard to balance that with engaging with friends / random viewers in stream chat, ha.

I think the stage 1 monks are probably consistently manageable, but I feel like I had one or two bad experiences with them somehow (either I triggered one's attack too early or I missed / didn't do enough damage, if that matters, and didn't trigger their jump before they plowed into me) that left me skittish of them. I got really used to just wiggling through that part of the stage with upgraded shuriken and never completely adapted to it without them.

Had no idea you could trick the ceiling ninja into stopping their attack! Definitely the way to go to speed the stage up and prevent more samurai from spawning.

I managed the aerial maneuver that gets you through the jumping Ryuichi's airslash several times, but I'm sure I never did it intentionally even once, lol. Absolutely terrifying whenever it happens. Getting that stage down ultra-consistently would probably necessitate learning the technique though, but I never felt confident in it and just tried to get every other scenario down instead. To be honest, a part of me wishes the jumping samurai couldn't about-face to slash you in the air... maybe it'd dilute the stage too much, but jumping under a samurai you've baited into the air feels like a precise enough maneuver that punishing the player for it feels a little harsh.


There's a subtle art to evading Ryuichi Airtype's jumpslash like that. Vludi has a good example here. Just like the Groundtypes, being in front of them as the slash comes out is certain death. Airtypes will also pivot to slash players behind them, making the airspace either side of them lethal. However, just like the Groundtypes, if you can pass into overlap proximity from above or below, they'll whiff.

I wimped out on stage 7 all the way to the end. I don't think I quite have the mental stamina to hard-memorize a safe route through the first part of the stage (and simultaneously deal with the enemies), so I just inched my way through every time. I really don't like the gas traps much, but honestly I do think the effect they have of slowing down the pace of the game (after the frantic stage 6) and building tension for the final battle is actually pretty cool. It does at least feel more memorizable than stage 5, whose layout has never clicked in my head; for some reason the ninja pit is more comprehensible / easier to remember than either gas trap segment.

Agreed on the weapons. Both the bombs and kusarigama are excellent - the kusarigama's full-screen whipping looks fantastic to land and has enough nuance (once you get past the first two stages) that it feels like a fun move to employ strategically, and the grenades have all-time great-level hit feedback; incredibly meaty-feeling weapons. I do kind of wish there were more scenarios in the game where the bombs ended up being favorable versus the kusarigama so that it didn't generally feel like you just want to use kusarigama for stages and bombs for bosses, but stage 4 and kinda stage 7 mix it up enough. I just lament the shuriken's aim lag; it'd be great if they in particular were more viable versus the rest of your arsenal throughout the game. Really like the idea of basically having a STG's weapon loadout in a platformer.

The sword was my go-to for stage 3's marsh for a long time (I initially just turtled out the charging monks) but after looking into rank management, I went for a more aggressive kusarigama approach and never looked back. It helps that the sword can, in some edge cases, get you nailed by a parried staff if you happen to reflect it while swatting down a jumping ninja (happened to me several times shortly before switching over to the kusarigama). The kusarigama has its own weaknesses there with sometimes bouncing off the monks, though, so it isn't a totally easy choice.

I can respect what stage 5 is going for even if I don't think the gas traps are very enjoyable, and I don't think stage 1 is bad for an intro level (it helps that I never got good enough to work out the stage 1 monks, which I sort of like lol). I really do like stage 5's concept; I just wish the gas traps either worked a little differently, had a more prominent / permanent visual telegraph, or were just replaced with some other enemy type (which I'm sure wouldn't have been an easy task, necessarily). At least you can speedrun the stage once you get it down, though, and that really does smooth it over.

I thought about what it'd feel like to have even just one extra HP, too. The PCE version's five hp is absurd (to the point that you have to treat that mode as a beginner / training wheels mode and not an interesting rebalance, I feel), but the idea of having heavies one-hit you regardless of HP total is a good one. I still feel like even just having a max of 2 HP would improve the final boss fight, but the majority of the game is so tightly designed that allowing players to slum it through even one totally-avoidable fodder ninja attack might feel like too much of a concession. Agreed that stage 6 does a great job of creating verisimilitude as it is; like I said previously, I really can't think of anything quite so insane in sidescrolling action gaming.

Ah, I'm glad to know the kusarigama bug is broken down to that extent! It's not as nasty as something like Holy Diver's input glitch, but given just how often you want to be lobbing that kusarigama around, it's annoying to have it pop up in the middle of stage 6's chaos even if it is possible to plan around it. At least it's not prevalent enough to be game-busting.

The kusarigama's projectile invincibility is actually one of my favorite little things about the game. Still never feels totally secure exploiting it, but I did get into the habit of regularly using it against stage 6's kite ninja.
_________________
Twitch
Youtube


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 7344
Location: MD
Iron Horse also gives me a Green Beret/Rush 'n Attack vibe with similar music and enemy rushes at the end of each stage. It has been awhile since I played an actual cab, though.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:49 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Indeed, totally has that proto-Contra Konami "running action man" vibe. The Morricone-styled soundtrack is classily done, too. I had a quick look at Janet's 1CC, gotta say I love that firewall attack even if I've no idea how it works. Brutal, almost Metal Slug-esque. :shock: The enemy's counter-attack did not go as planned! Image
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:41 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 850
Location: プププランド
BIL wrote:
Went to get PS4 Leynos off J-PSN, doesn't seem to be there anymore? Hmm. Anyway, it's on sale for £5.79 on the UK PSN, if it's of any interest. Went with that for simplicity's sake. Actually bought the JP physical four years ago, sitting pretty back home. :lol: kitten's expert runs show it off aptly, looking forward to this one. Digital is handy when you're working overseas and living in a shoebox, wish I'd figured that out sooner. Image


i forget if i showed updated runs, but after blinge pointed out i could extend ps4 capture time i put one up of both classic & arcade modes on hard that were better than old ones -

classic

arcade

i also did a mode where i shredded through classic that is more or less a speedrun

speedrun

keep in mind the game has a save file progression system that gradually updates points earned from basic enemies so you can actually feasibly earn the ultra weapons. this affects these runs a bit, but it's otherwise wiping your save every game and playing with obviously too-gimped exp gain
_________________
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~
Image | Image
~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:40 am 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
Yuss! I did indeed see the updated runs - didn't watch them long, only because I could tell you'd really whooped that ass, so I grabbed a digital copy and got going on the Arcade Normal 1CC. Image

I really enjoyed Arcade, quite Valken-esque as you said. Involving but not oppressive. Having punch on its own button Leynos 2-style is a big improvement! As is having a punch at all, goes great with ASL1's gritty melees. Handling is absolutely superb, especially the finessed boosting in zero-g. My staple Valken "Crowd-strafing Vernier Death From Above" tack working as intended! A small detail, I really like how you can use the "double-tap = drop" command to force an LG rifle reload when you know something's gonna need a full mag dump. Being able to shed useless weapons late into missions is great too ofc.

I like that the shield and vernier are available from the get-go, rather than needing to be unlocked as on MD. Much more entertaining... at the same time, each still taking up an equipment slot is a smart hewing to tradition. As a remake it's consistently well-judged that way. I was wishing they'd kept ASL2's dynamic camera at a few points (mostly the open space battles) but it's nothing that can't be adjusted to, and the simplified radar still works great.

Gave Classic a quick spin after, seemed outright excellent with its far more alarming enemy numbers. This might be the MD battlefield with SFC controls I've always wanted. Have put it aside for the weekend when I can give it the attention it warrants. :cool:

It's likely old news given your experience with the game, but I noticed the Valken-styled heavy units in Mission 3 seemingly can't turn around while onscreen, which I thought was kinda cute. :mrgreen: Production as a whole is superb. Looks and handles like a 60fps dream, especially in those muddy ground assaults.

Oi Obscura, was thinking of you during Mission 3's battleship raid! My brother, that is no random background element - that's frickin WHITE-HOT JET BLAST
- that shit will sting and burn! Image :wink:

Image

(I'm biased cos the MD Mission 3 is nowhere as flashy, but the battleship's attack is brutal, to the point that figuring out its weakness was a real FUCK YEAAA moment!)
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:33 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5477
Location: Denmarku
BIL wrote:
that is no random background element - that's frickin WHITE-HOT JET BLAST
- that shit will sting and burn! Image :wink:


https://youtu.be/8Rx8_vjbXX4?t=135


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 850
Location: プププランド
i'm really thrilled you're enjoying leynos remake, bil! i think it's narrowly eclipsed valken as my favorite 2D mech action game due to the sheer smoothness and sense of exhilaration it has. it may not be as original or quite hit the aesthetic bombast & grit (though it gets close!), but it feels so dang refined and purely pleasing.

BIL wrote:
A small detail, I really like how you can use the "double-tap = drop" command to force an LG rifle reload when you know something's gonna need a full mag dump. Being able to shed useless weapons late into missions is great too ofc.


there's something i really adore about this mechanic - some of the most gripping moments of mech anime are when you see them toss away an empty firearm to then switch to something else and tear into someone. i think this game, like almost no other, really captures that feeling of finesse. even the best armored core games feel a little clunky when pulling off their closest approximation of anime-adjacent, hyper-slick maneuvering, but when you really sink your teeth into leynos you hit that zen feeling amuro and char have to be feeling in the heat of it. it's a really sadly undersung game! RIP dracue ; ___ ;
_________________
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~
Image | Image
~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 12295
Location: SODOM
kitten wrote:
there's something i really adore about this mechanic - some of the most gripping moments of mech anime are when you see them toss away an empty firearm to then switch to something else and tear into someone. i think this game, like almost no other, really captures that feeling of finesse. even the best armored core games feel a little clunky when pulling off their closest approximation of anime-adjacent, hyper-slick maneuvering, but when you really sink your teeth into leynos you hit that zen feeling amuro and char have to be feeling in the heat of it. it's a really sadly undersung game! RIP dracue ; ___ ;


Image

This exactly. That balance of heft and response is the heart of good mecha sidescrolling, and good heavy machine action in general. A sense of piloting a vehicle, rather than inhabiting a body. I feel similarly about Ex-Ranza's EX-UP, the motorbike that's also your gun rack (obliterating an incoming fighter squadron with the tracking laser, hold on Mr. Tank, I'm just gonna fetch my rocket launcher! BLAOW).

Also, in a non-mecha but still thoroughly anime-informed Guyver context, Alien Soldier's CYBERNETICK HYPER-WEAPONS ring. Outrageously clunky in Contra/Slug context, but fits Soldier's quasi-fighter model like a steel gauntlet. You're meant to create the time and space needed, by attack, evasion or counter - dumping a full Burner into a boss's face, then switching to a fresh tank and roasting his back as he slashes the air you were in a split-second ago. I love it when hardcore action games can support mechanics beyond the core run/jump/attack without sacrificing player accountability.
_________________
Image
[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [TRAGEDY FLAME]
"We need some charred bodies flying out of this explosion"


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 2676
Location: Brooklyn NY
BIL wrote:
Stevens wrote:
That said if you want a simple straight forward old west romp on a train I would say go with Express Raider.


Holy shit, thanks - been trying to recall that one for decades! :shock: Saw it once as a kid on holidays, but every time I looked it up I'd get Iron Horse or Challenger (FC).


No problem! I can still here the train whistle from the attract sequence.

I love that it uses the tug of war life bar. Wish more fighters used that idea.

RE - Assault Suit Leynos

I picked it up last summer or the summer before, I can't remember which. It really is a great game though. Missions are varied and it gives off that whole space opera vibe nicely. I think I might have used the main gun a LOT, not sure if that is a quick death on original mode. Didn't play that one too much - cause quick death:D

Now is the perfect time to play it again I suppose!
_________________
"Yes, That Should Work."


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9203 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 303, 304, 305, 306, 307  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bloodreign and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group