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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:16 pm 



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Sumez wrote:
carlbarx wrote:
Doesn't Metal Slug support the MVS Memorycard and let you choose between levels already cleared ?

The what now!
I've never seen one of those in real life :P


Wasn't really sure so I had to try it out myself (on the PS3 Neogeo Station version). The memorycard function turned ON puts you back at the start of the level you got game over. MAME should support this too. Great for practice! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:30 pm 


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Hey Ilpalazzo, finally got around to watching your Saigo 1CC! Sorry it took so goddamn long, classic case of too much good stuff to do. :mrgreen: Hell of a finish versus Boney-sama. I liked the commentary!

A few things I noted during the run:

For the st1-2 Red Monks, their leap is triggered by damage, not just your jump (unlike the Greys' staff). I always have my full set (two shadows + POW Grenades & Kusarigama) by the time I reach them. A shot of either is more than enough to trigger the leap, which'll leave them stranded whether you finish them off or move on.

I guess the idea is to take out players attacking from above, but they'll leap if you're overhead anyway.
Spoiler: show
Image


In st4-2: in case you don't know, once you've spoofed a Black Ninja (stay still as they move in and strike), you can break them out of their attack with a quick about-face. As with so many things in this game, it's a finesse touch that can also save you from a worst-case scenario, eg being pincered over a spike pit.

(I like to think they're tracking Tsukikage by his footsteps, and staying still foils that. Best stealth gameplay ever! EARTH NINJA, otoh, has some moleman geolocation going on, and will promptly stab you in the ass)

There's a subtle art to evading Ryuichi Airtype's jumpslash like that. Vludi has a good example here. Just like the Groundtypes, being in front of them as the slash comes out is certain death. Airtypes will also pivot to slash players behind them, making the airspace either side of them lethal. However, just like the Groundtypes, if you can pass into overlap proximity from above or below, they'll whiff.

Exactly the same principle as the Groundtype's "Ryuichi drop."
Spoiler: show
ImageImage


Obviously, it's better to not have to do this at all, instead baiting the Airtypes with pre-emptive hops. Or, if you know you've got the footing, beating them outright with your height and acceleration. But again, it's good to know in a pinch.

Finally, 7-1. This can indeed happen. :lol: I've had more than a few would-be 1LCs end there, typically by jittering onto the ground trap as it fires.

I prefer a "rip off the band-aid" approach. As soon as you spawn in, move forward just a tick, then using the "dark steps" landmark, vault onto the ceiling. It's tight, but if you bend the jump subtly forward, you'll avoid both the ground and ceiling traps. It's actually the deadliest bit of st7-1, imo. Or maybe that's just the nerves inherent in reaching the finale? Either way, this tack serves me well. Even if a Ryuichi spawns early, he'll be forced to pause his advance to follow you upstairs, ensuring an easy kill.

This post is fairly tongue-in-cheek, as is my wont, but the methodology is real. Image It's sadly not the most graphically distinct setting (I suppose a cave wouldn't be... IREM maintaining that flat, unvarnished aesthetic), but the sprite art has a few fairly recognisable visual cues in there.

---

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:
-Realizing that you don't really need the sword and shuriken did disappoint me, though. On the surface, the weapon balance seems like it's very good, like all the weapons fill a particular niche, but the sword really is useless outside of some edge cases once you have a good handle on how to aim the kusarigama and misdirect enemy attacks, and the shuriken's higher damage against single strong targets hardly ever matters. On the other hand, maybe it's for the best that you don't have to fiddle with the weapon select button during high-intensity situations, and the kusarigama is still fun to tear enemies up with, so the current weapon balance isn't the worst thing.


I've come to think of Saigo's weapon balance like I do Alien Soldier's. Technically, only two weapons really matter (Kusarigama/Grenades & Flame/Lancer) - but they're individually satisfying, and they contrast sharply enough for an interesting game. Plus, with Saigo built on a dichotomy of slash/guard VS shoot/kill, it doesn't hurt much that each pair has a "major" and "minor" representative. (it'd be a much bigger issue if there was little reason to shoot or slash, of course)

As with AS, where I have a handful of uses for Buster and Ranger, I still like using Sword in st3-2's marsh. Even without POW, its arc is a comfy anti-zako umbrella, and I'm not bothered about killing the Monks - if anything, I like to have a couple of damaged ones follow me into the boss for easy dispatch.

Shuriken's 16way lag VS Grenades' 8way snap is what truly marginalises them, imo. While they exterminate st7-1's Ryuichis quicker, the precision needed to connect the full spread can be dangerously compromised by the terrain. Grenade splash, with the possibility of a small evasive hop to confirm the kill, feels stabler. Their finest showing is probably st4-2, assuming you want to keep to the ceilings. Will punch clean through would-be Ryuichi pincers. I've always preferred liberally grenading the ceilings and floors while pressing forward, though.

Quote:
-My big, initial complaint about the game back when I started playing in 2014 or so didn't change: stage 2 is a little too sleepy.


Although I'll always regard Daimakaimura's pitch-perfect opening pair as roundly schooling Saigo's, I've warmed up to st2 a lot. It's the only stage where you can really enjoy the soaring jump, in its first half, and do some extended "platforming," in its second. Going from branch to branch without breaking stride is a fun optional challenge, sniping Red Ninjas and Hitodama, and looks ninja as all hell (as does the boss speedkill it segues into). I like to grab the shield just before the bridge, so your shadows become a train of burning destruction.

st5 is probably the game's weakest, being brutally memo-demanding (like st7), but relatively harmless once routed (entirely unlike st7). Its brevity, novelty and consistency (as chaotic as Saigo can be, IREM clearly knew when to avoid RNG) keep it from doing damage, imo. Nailing down my route wasn't great fun, but in practice, its ~35seconds - rocketing up the cliff face from foothold to foothold, swiping the shield from its nest of foes, then demolishing the boss in a pummelling M72 uproar - acquit themselves well.

A good speedkill never loses its satisfaction... (・`ω´・)
Spoiler: show
Image

And this... ( ・`ω`・)>⌐■-■
Spoiler: show
Image

Is one of them! (■`ω´■)
Spoiler: show
Image


Quote:
-Stage 6 is very good, but I'm still not totally sure how to feel on it. I think the back half is unequivocally excellent (save the boss), and agree with BIL's earlier point that the first half is the really dangerous one - ironically, the regular samurai are a way more threatening enemy than their upgraded, jumping variation - but even up to the end I never really felt confident in the first half of the stage. It feels like unlucky enemy placement can screw you over far more easily than in the second half of the level, where enemies are more easily misdirected, and I wonder if the stage might just be a little too luck-dependent. Still, it's a really fun level overall, and is learnable enough.


When going for my first 1LC, I often thought how radically Dai-styled armour would've changed stage 6. It's so ragingly deadly, and the RNG can interact in such wicked ways, it would not be unwarranted.

At the same time, I think the damnable frustration (and/or survivor's guilt Image) is part of a perfect imperfection - the vagary of all-out war. It's de rigeur for action games and the films they mimick to cast the protagonist as a one-man army, storming the front, defying the impossible. Plot armour inevitably nags at such work, in bad cases sabotaging it. Saigo packs the bluntest, most authentically capricious refute I've found - a struggle sans narrative mercy or favour, only the most fickle of battlefield fortune. You are a indeed a one-man army, your razing firepower and soaring agility putting the previous year's Contra to shame - but you are also one man facing an army. What ensues on stage 6's beach is no celebratory rout, just the lonely stand that gives the game its very title - what its ending eulogises as The desperate fight.

Image

^ that isn't Saigo art (it's mildly shooped from Death's Gambit), but in a title low on official illustrations, I like the effect. No other action game I've played is this good at contrasting superhuman might with mortal vulnerability. Paired with the necro-feudal atmosphere and deliberately austere palette, it's like a morbid Actraiser, a tale of demigod power pushed to its utter breaking point.

I've had lucky 1LCs (no coincidence that was my first), unlucky 1LCs (spontaneous HELL BULLDOZER eruption at the brink of salvation!), and outright diabolical 1LCs (Stealth Ryuichi twice in ten seconds Image), but they only became so in hindsight. At the time they all felt the same, roiling chaos and a deadly test of composure. It reminds me of what an old law prof said, that memorising statutes and doctrines is most certainly essential - but that real skill is in flexibility, being able to apply that knowledge on the fly. Not wanting to talk up Saigo too much here (ImageImage).

I love that it went all-out on stage 6. It's the apex of its martial-fantasy wuxia, and the relatively short runtime (10-15min per 1LC) suits a blistering intensity. It's a game I can always return to with a sense of mortal uncertainty. The only things I'd alter are Ryuichis' low sprite priority (their ability to hide behind Monks is the sole hazard that feels artificial, rather than calibrated... and with the alertness required to consistently survive 6-1's nightmare, its rarity is little comfort), and of course the boss, which is simultaneously a washout and a welcome breather. :oops: Shouldn't be either! Image

Quote:
(The monk miniboss is pretty fun to annihilate while dodging samurai once you know the correct pattern for dealing with him, but the fact that he is basically totally unworkable unless you know that very specific strategy gives me pause.)


I felt the same while learning this guy. Besides the hellacious surroundings, it doesn't help that the hitbox on his charge is weird. Sometimes I'd survive a seeming head-on collision as he vaulted away, others I'd die before he made landfall. Before long I happened across the easy exploit, and I haven't had any reason to tinker, so I called it quits with him there. He's a microcosm of 7-1 itself, to me. Punishing rote, made interesting by spawn RNG. As you say, you can receive some evil Ryuichi setups, imbuing an otherwise stable takedown with urgency and relief.

Quote:
-The weird bug that causes you to jump backwards sometimes when swinging the kusarigama is a little unforgivable given how easily it can screw you over and how often you need to use the kusarigama. I think there's a way to tell when it's going to happen but I never figured it out.


Ah yes - this annoying thing. It's to do with the way the game processes Tsukikage's direction during a swing. Although he'll visibly rotate to the opposite direction, as far as the code is concerned, he remains facing the original way throughout the swing, and for a few frames after. If you execute a running jump during this window, you'll be forced to travel in his original direction. Neutral jumps (and ledge drops) are unaffected.

Video without input display is of limited use, but here I am deliberately triggering it a few times. Turn on Closed Captions for visual markers - note also how Tsukikage is facing backwards during each glitched jump. I decidedly remember my encounters with it in the past, some real "Fuck's sake!" mishaps in st6, but I recall it happening less recently. Muscle memory, I suppose... wouldn't surprise me if it creeps back in once I've been gone a while.

It helps that for all its chaos, Saigo is an innately deliberate game in even its deadliest straits. Very rarely (if ever) is twitch reflex superior to calculated strategy.

Spoiler: show
Image


(I probably shouldn't talk much... Holy Diver PTSD may have permanently calloused me to relatively mild glitches Image)

EDIT: Also, since I was already at my PC I uploaded a quick demo of the Kusarigama's full-body projectile invincibility during attack frames. As shown, it ain't a free lunch VS multiple shooters, but versus the odd potshot it's a snap. :cool:
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Last edited by BIL on Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:34 pm 


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Which is generally considered the better Shinobi game - Revenge, III or Shadow Dancer MD?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:44 pm 


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My money's on Shadow Dancer, but I'm probably in the minority.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:50 pm 


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I also give a slight edge to Shadow Dancer, due to it's adictive arcade-style play. But all 3 are superb.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:16 pm 


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Marc wrote:
Which is generally considered the better Shinobi game - Revenge, III or Shadow Dancer MD?


Revenge and III are more popular, but I think it's a mistake to group them in the first place. The first two are The Super Shinobi (JP) and its sequel, the Saturn game being a third entry in this style. Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi is the third of the arcade series after the original Shinobi and Shadow Dancer, and is likewise a more stripped-down, punishing sort of game. I'm very fond of it in that context, though I've not played the AC games recently enough to compare. myco mentioned not liking MD's floaty jumps, and I can vouch for the bonus rounds being misjudged.

That said, I consider Revenge a bit better than III. Joe's moveset may be comparatively primitive, but the advancing guard works elegantly with the short-ranged attacks, and the stages and POW system are perfectly arranged for "assault course" mastery and demolition. Like any high-performance course, this requires rehearsal - unfortunately, that's sometimes due to an unfriendly camera that lets enemies snipe you from offscreen. As a fan of this game type (see also Alien Soldier and Castlevania Bloodlines), the seamless pace, rampant destruction and ageless near-future cool easily make up for that small annoyance. I wouldn't be without it.

III has the best moveset and controls of the three Super games by far, and when it's letting you set your own pace, it's also got the best stage and boss design. Unfortunately it's full of autoscrollers, some of which are really boring (others fare better, but they inevitably rob the player of momentum). Make sure to try out the hidden six-button mode! (hidden on MD at least, I think M2's later emulations let you switch it on). On balance I'd put it just behind Revenge, that is, excellent with caveats.

The Saturn game has its comedowns - handling isn't as tight as III, despite it having all its moves and more, and aesthetically it's not aged nearly as well as the MD games, with its goofy digitised Tokusatsu sprites and comparatively forgettable OST. But it's actually a pretty solid sequel overall, making a good effort to advance the series with a better balance of sword to shuriken action. Not to play armchair shrink, but had it been a stunningly gorgeous 2D game (or just a cooler-looking 3D one ala Taromaru), I've no doubt the mainstream would rave over it being a lost gem. Worth a go.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:38 pm 



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BIL wrote:
Shadow Dancer: The Secret of Shinobi is the third of the arcade series after the original Shinobi and Shadow Dancer.


Cherry-picking frenzy because time is tyrant: third arcade title? Is it a Mega Tech entry?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:40 pm 


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Haha, no, just an MD cart for the consumer market - I did wonder if I should edit that. :mrgreen: It wouldn't surprise me at all if it does have a Mega Tech release, though!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:58 pm 



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BIL wrote:
Haha, no, just an MD cart for the consumer market - I did wonder if I should edit that. :mrgreen: It wouldn't surprise me at all if it does have a Mega Tech release, though!


:cry:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:18 pm 


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If not for the annoying bonus stages (you can't skip them like in AC, and their controls are kinda boned even on real hardware), I'd recommend it unreservedly - stick it on max difficulty and go for Shinobi Bonuses, it's substantial stuff! Only problem I have with it is the lame-ass aesthetic of the final stage, a friggin box factory. The enemy layouts are rad though!

Just don't google "Bladesaw Babe," she attracts some unsavoury types this thread strongly disavows! Image

EDIT: wait a sec Image

OMFG, I ROVE BURADESAW BABEU wrote:
she is liquidated by Joe Musashi.


I think you mean Hayate Musashi, noob. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:57 pm 


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But what really happens to her boots???


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:40 pm 


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Pretty much agree with BIL's analysis of the Shinobi MD trio.

Revenge/Super Shinobi is a top-tier game for me, definitely up there among the best that this genre has ever produced.

And I love the final stage and the final battle against The Ninja Master - it's the perfect climax for that game, and one of my favorites overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:15 pm 


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Randorama wrote:
BIL wrote:
Haha, no, just an MD cart for the consumer market - I did wonder if I should edit that. :mrgreen: It wouldn't surprise me at all if it does have a Mega Tech release, though!


:cry:


Shadow Dancer MD is a console original game, but the staff roll has an acknowledgement to the arcade Shinobi and Shadow Dancer teams without any mention of the other games in the series (not even the Mark III/Master System port of Shinobi).

On that note, I always like it when credits to sequels and home conversions credit teams from previous versions and installments like in Contra Spirits or Donkey Kong '94.

BIL wrote:
I think you mean Hayate Musashi, noob. Image

Technically speaking, he is never actually addressed by the Musashi surname in any of the official Japanese material. It's just Hayate (one name only). Honestly, the Japanese backstory never made much sense to me anyway. How did a sailboat end up from Japan to New York?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:48 pm 


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drauch wrote:
But what really happens to her boots???


AND HER BOOBS Image

Jonny2x4 wrote:
On that note, I always like it when credits to sequels and home conversions credit teams from previous versions and installments like in Contra Spirits or Donkey Kong '94.


Motherfucking word ;-;7

Image

Very thanks indeed, gentlemen.

Quote:
BIL wrote:
I think you mean Hayate Musashi, noob. Image

Technically speaking, he is never actually addressed by the Musashi surname in any of the official Japanese material. It's just Hayate (one name only).


Oh interesting. :o He'll always be the spiritual successor of Rolling Thunder Jutsu to me, but I wonder what the official story (if any) was.

Quote:
Honestly, the Japanese backstory never made much sense to me anyway. How did a sailboat end up from Japan to New York?


Ryu musta hooked him up, oldschool VG ninjas go way back. ;3

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:14 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
On that note, I always like it when credits to sequels and home conversions credit teams from previous versions and installments like in Contra Spirits or Donkey Kong '94.


I like that too. Didn't Detana Twinbee in the deluxe pack for PSX and Saturn mention the X68000 version? I think Virtua Cop 2 also did something similar. One odd thing is that the DC and PC versions of that had much of the same staff, but switched their roles around.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:32 am 


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Interesting SOTN clone with Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War. Looks good so far. It's in early access, though.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1203 ... Labyrinth/


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:35 am 


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Quote:
I like that too. Didn't Detana Twinbee in the deluxe pack for PSX and Saturn mention the X68000 version? I think Virtua Cop 2 also did something similar. One odd thing is that the DC and PC versions of that had much of the same staff, but switched their roles around.


A lot of Konami games from the period did that a lot. The AC version of Parodius Da! for example, credits the team for the MSX Parodius, as well as the Gradius 1-3 teams and the Salamander team and the SNES version of TMNT Tournament Fighters has them crediting the AC, NES, MD and even DMG team. Even Snake's Revenge has a shoutout to the "Konami PC Team".

Quote:
Oh interesting. :o He'll always be the spiritual successor of Rolling Thunder Jutsu to me, but I wonder what the official story (if any) was.


The backstory in the JP manual is that the during Winter of 1977, Joe Musashi sends away his unnamed wife along with their son (Hayate) and a puppy (Yamato), on a boat, I'm guessing to protect them from Joe's enemies. During the spring of the following year, a Japanese-American dojo master named Dick C. Kato stumble onto the boat and finds the mother already dying, but Hayate and Yamato are still alive. He decides to raise the two as his own and trains Hayate in his school. 20 years later, shit happens, Kato dies and Hayate and his dog decide to avenge his death.

In the EN manual, they more or less inverted the role by having Joe Musashi be the dojo master and Kato be one of his students.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:20 am 


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Great info, I'd assumed Kato was a Sega USA invention. :smile: (I even made up my own story for him :oops:) Joe and his loved ones sure had a rough life. Image Proximity to iconic 80s vg ninja = #1 risk of death! Just like the movies!

Know that the way of the shinobi is terribly harsh! - Ryu Hayabusa
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:35 pm 



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Udderdude wrote:
Interesting SOTN clone with Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War. Looks good so far. It's in early access, though.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1203 ... Labyrinth/


Been anticipating this. I quite liked Touhou Luna Nights, the dev's previous game. Surprisingly tight combat, if a bit on the easy side (especially because of its overly generous graze mechanic that let you turn otherwise deadly boss attacks into easy regen). Didn't cross my mind that Wonder Labyrinth would launch in Early Access, so I'm a bit disappointed, but I guess I should have expected as much.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:47 pm 


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Went to get PS4 Leynos off J-PSN, doesn't seem to be there anymore? Hmm. Anyway, it's on sale for £5.79 on the UK PSN, if it's of any interest. Went with that for simplicity's sake. Actually bought the JP physical four years ago, sitting pretty back home. :lol: kitten's expert runs show it off aptly, looking forward to this one. Digital is handy when you're working overseas and living in a shoebox, wish I'd figured that out sooner. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:01 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
Interesting SOTN clone with Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War. Looks good so far. It's in early access, though.

Ended up springing for this, since Team Ladybug tends to make pretty solid pseudo-Metroidvanias; this one is indeed familiar if you've played their previous stuff, and even reprises the elemental switching from Synchronicity Prologue. Supposedly it was made to correspond with an anniversary of the Lodoss anime's debut, but seeing it in motion I honestly can't help but wonder if they were just looking for a character with long white hair, a flowing cape and blue after-images as they walk to whack the proverbial nostalgia button with a sledgehammer, heh.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:29 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Great info, I'd assumed Kato was a Sega USA invention. :smile: (I even made up my own story for him :oops:)


I thought the same thing about Eddie Hunter, Sammy/Skate's real name according to the US manual for SOR2, but it turns that there were prototype versions of the game where he was actually called Eddie for a while.

I seriously wonder how the scrapped Kunoichi/Hawk duo in MD Shadow Dancer would've played like.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:17 pm 


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Pottering about with various Metal Slug things, and was reminded of Ilpalazzo's post from a few pages back:

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:
-Is the wavy bridge setpiece especially prone to randomly fucking you over? I usually have a relatively easy time there but have had a few attempts where I got an awkward formation of soldiers + missiles and blew it. It feels like it should be a fairly doable bit, and it feels to me like my deaths there were pretty avoidable, but watching replays online I see way better players than me waiting at the start of the bridge until all the enemies and missiles stop spawning. I don't really like the idea of basically pausing the game for a minute every time I get a run that far, but is the bridge really that volatile that it's not worth going for?


I think this video has some commentary - it's for MS2 on difficulty level 8, but maybe it'll transfer over to X? I really like this guy's channel, he's a consummate Slug aficionado with impressive runs across the whole series. Some pretty amusing stunts too! His titles often get a smile out of me, haha.

> "I Wanna Propose To You" (was surprised at how long I followed her in my second 1LC, in those deceptively lethal bazooka nests I didn't even notice!)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:50 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
I seriously wonder how the scrapped Kunoichi/Hawk duo in MD Shadow Dancer would've played like.


Is there a website with more info on this (and possibly other unused content)? TCRF doesn't even have a page for the MD version of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:23 pm 


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Postponed my Metal Slug mission a couple of days as we prepared our corona shelter for the upcoming weeks. Spent the last few days playing through Blasphemous though, and starting a co-op quest of Divinity Original Sin 2 with the girlfriend.

But after spending most of last night practicing the final mission and all of its deadly traps, I did one run tonight and got the damn 1CC in my first attempt!

Image

It was even a 1 life clear up until I screwed up and walked right into the falling planks, trying to pick up a bomb power up right before the place where you get the slug on the final stage.
That's not saying too much of course, considering all the challenge in this game is on this stage anyway. I also screwed up at the final boss and almost lost the run - I kinda wish I had a recording of it, but I couldn't get any footage on my capture device.

Anyway, fun game, but I can't tell if I like it better or worse, after having put full effort into it... I honestly think there are a little too much "filler", especially stage 4 feels extremely superfluous, and I'm not a big fan of the "exiting the tank invincibility" meta-game (which fortunately isn't really necessary outside of surviving a couple of boss fights with the tank intact).
But the final stage is super cool. Curious to get started on the next game in the series, but I think I'll take a short arcade break for now...


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:01 pm 


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What's the "pro" take on Metal Slug 7 vs XX?

From what I can gather from casual internet reports, XX is mostly just a graphical upgrade (doesn't look much different to me though) with a couple of additional optional areas thrown in.
Doesn't seem like it'd made a big difference.

I could just get XX from Xbox Live, but looking at physical releases, I'm biased towards the DS (7) over the PSP (XX) simple from not relying on mechanical media.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:31 pm 


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Congrats on the MS1 clear. :smile: While 90% of it is indeed light work (before Final Mission comes along looking to get paid), I still find it a preternaturally replayable game. The easier stuff can generally be stomped with such stylish abandon, and if Slug ever had one thing going for it, it's viscerality... demolishing all in your path and swimming through fire and gore was only ever this innately rewarding in its sequels. Or Geostorm.

I'm looking at picking up MS7/XX for a portable, too. Sadly, although the game content seems absolutely excellent, the PS4 version I bought last weekend has a bit of input lag, and with this being easily as tough as any of the arcade Slugs (on Hard), it's difficult to ignore. I'd be the first to blame the random JVC tv I bought so my grandma can watch Maury, and I hope a proper gaming monitor will tighten it up... but for now, going back to the ACA Slugs feels like ditching a weighted vest, so I'll be looking into the portables.

As to the actual content, I love it (Mortificator, MathU and Marc have all vouched for it, so I figured it was a safe bet). It feels quite "consolised," in that stages go more for bread & butter action/platforming over arcade setpiece and spectacle. The pace and intensity (again, on Hard) is absolutely arcade-calibre, even if the bombast is dialled back, and the mechanics brought in from MS6 (weapon switching, distinct characters, a neat burst-combo scoring system) are welcome. Lots of Combat School missions too.

I particularly like how the Slug characters are mostly "arrange" tweaks (stronger handgun, more ammo, Vulcan Fix), while the Ikaris are outright new-school with their command moves. Clark's chainable burst invincibility particularly interests me. Eri having a bonafide new mechanic (aimable grenades) feels a bit lopsided, as does Ralf having effectively twice the lifestock of everyone else, but given the characters are no less fun to use, it's a snap to regard each's run as distinct from the rest.

Anyway, gonna have to see about that monitor, or a portable if not. It's absolutely good enough a game that I'll be revisiting one way or another.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:07 am 


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Not sure about the 360 version of XX having input lag, but it does have a terrible filter, so I wouldn't be surprised if it did. If I remember correctly, XX has the 2p mode that 7 lacks.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:43 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Jonny2x4 wrote:
I seriously wonder how the scrapped Kunoichi/Hawk duo in MD Shadow Dancer would've played like.


Is there a website with more info on this (and possibly other unused content)? TCRF doesn't even have a page for the MD version of the game.


I read it on an issue of SPEC which had an interview with the MD Shadow Dancer team. The Kunoichi/Hawk duo were cut from the game because there wasn't enough memory space for them. Not sure if there's some leftovers within the game code though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:58 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
BrianC wrote:
Jonny2x4 wrote:
I seriously wonder how the scrapped Kunoichi/Hawk duo in MD Shadow Dancer would've played like.


Is there a website with more info on this (and possibly other unused content)? TCRF doesn't even have a page for the MD version of the game.


I read it on an issue of SPEC which had an interview with the MD Shadow Dancer team. The Kunoichi/Hawk duo were cut from the game because there wasn't enough memory space for them. Not sure if there's some leftovers within the game code though.


Thanks for the info.

I bought the Kunio collection for Switch recently and noticed it has "quality up" versions of games with bug fixes, restored content, and reduced flicker. Out of the games, Downtown Special has the most listed, but I couldn't find much information. One change is an added item named Yamada's scroll. The list of things changed also gave me the impression that some items didn't work correctly in the original game?


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