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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:19 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Most of the Switch releases seemed fine to me, especially the ones handled by Gotch, but I'm not an expert on input lag. MS1 PS4 was actually patched around the same time as the switch version, though I need to test more.


On PS4 the updates are listed as "fixed bugs" (v1.0) and "the control settings have changed" (v1.1), but I still get that bit of static during the st1 boss explosion. Captured here. It may be something on my end, tbh... I don't notice it in others' videos, and it doesn't always occur in mine.

Also god help me, I'm kinda getting into AC Double Dragon. Image That friggin slowdown, good god damn. Did Taito stiff them on parts, or something? Image Even ignoring it, the FC interpretation is mechanically far sleeker (fight me IRL noobs Image). WTB that zako footsie and midboss zoning action with this brutal barfing-in-agony violence.

However, that violence cannot be denied, and it's paired with a deceptively addictive pursuit game. These evasive bastards really make you work for your knockouts. Elbow cheese has its place as a crowd equaliser, disarmer and initial knockdown, but I'm enjoying working around the other moves' limitations. A good knockdown followed by a merciless barrage of wakeup hits, off-axis hits, grapple maulings and the odd absolute shutdown of the headbutt (pointedly absent from DD2) almost makes me stop missing DD1FC's ground pounds.

Distinct lack of playtesting. Either that, or this series' choreographic streak started far earlier than Return Of. And I approve! Lots of strictly optional fun to be had once you get the easy cheese down. I bet the designers were having a ball with this stuff back in '87.

Right leg hospital. Left leg cemetary. (■`ω´■)
Spoiler: show
Image


^ DD2's crescent kick is flashier but DD1's roundhouse is pure neck-snapping vitriol. What a belting sound!

IMMA KILL YOU JEFF (0`W´0) PUNK-ASS BITCH
Spoiler: show
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l2box, noob (`ω´メ)
Spoiler: show
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Good fighter, Jeff. Threw him into a combine harvester in DD2. Image

Not without definite appeal, especially once you learn to minimise that slowdown with compartmentalised waves and quicker kills (sometihng DD2AC also benefits from!). Also, while I would call DD2AC a genuinely good/great brawler, its glossier Miami Vice aesthetic hasn't aged nearly as well as DD1's dingy streets and moody outskirts. And THAT KO SAMPLE, god damn did they strike gold. Image I wonder if it's an original, or if they borrowed it from somewhere. I could swear I heard it here - "UAAGH!" but it's not quite as expulsively perfect. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:29 am 


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I get that static on my MVS sometimes. I think the sound can clip sometimes for whatever reason. MS1 I get it every so often, on MS5 (a game that relies a lot more heavily on samples) I can reproduce it every single time when the elevator crashes into the ground after the turtle bot sequence.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 5:31 am 


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Aha! I'd wondered - I'm far away from my battered ol' MS1 cart at the moment. Thanks for the tip, that might be the issue... I notice it's just that one scene, I wondered if it might be something to do with the ambient sound of the waterfall.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 6:33 am 


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BIL wrote:
Johnny, do you know if there was ever a "red blood" AC release of DDII? Couldn't seem to find one from a quick google, nor anything in the DIP switches. The game is so intense it's hard to care much, and it's hardly bloody enough to cause a Metal Slug-esque "milk gusher" fiasco - but it does lead to embarrassing scenes like this :o


I read about such a version a long time ago, but I doubt it actually exists. The blood splash is only white in DD2AC because it shared Jimmy's palette, which is why it went from red to white in the sequel, matching the color of his outfit (it's the same deal with some of the items you can arm your character with such as the whip and the throwing knife). The JP revision of DD2AC, which has been supported by MAME for some while now, does seem to have some subtle differences with the US and World versions, such a flashing continue banner when you lose all your lives, but it doesn't seem to be all that of a significant departure from the US version.

BIL wrote:
Not without definite appeal, especially once you learn to minimise that slowdown with compartmentalised waves and quicker kills (sometihng DD2AC also benefits from!). Also, while I would call DD2AC a genuinely good/great brawler, its glossier Miami Vice aesthetic hasn't aged nearly as well as DD1's dingy streets and moody outskirts. And THAT KO SAMPLE, god damn did they strike gold. Image I wonder if it's an original, or if they borrowed it from somewhere. I could swear I heard it here - "UAAGH!" but it's not quite as expulsively perfect.


I don't know about DD1AC, but all the voice samples in the original Kunio-kun and DD2AC were the voices of the actual developers recorded into the actual game. In the case of DD2AC, Kishimoto himself did the voice of Rowper according to his personal homepage. I might had brought this up before here, but a cool detail in DD2AC that I never seen in any other belt-scroller (not even in Combatribes nor DD3AC) is the fact that each enemy type has his or her own death cry. It's a cool attention to detail.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:00 pm 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
I read about such a version a long time ago, but I doubt it actually exists. The blood splash is only white in DD2AC because it shared Jimmy's palette, which is why it went from red to white in the sequel, matching the color of his outfit (it's the same deal with some of the items you can arm your character with such as the whip and the throwing knife).


Haha, figures. :mrgreen: I'd guess "synth blood" is all there is too, given how thorough ACA tend to be at rooting out alternate versions (or letting you approximate them with DIP settings).

Initially I wondered if it was due to the (really quite brutal) opening sequence, surely one of arcade gaming's bluntest invocations of SADNESS AND REVENGE. I distinctly remember encountering DD2AC as a little kid visiting family on holiday. I knew Marion's killing from the NES intro, complete with an (again, pretty brutal) implied slaying by Ninja.

So when I saw her get unceremoniously blown away, complete with trademark Technos blink-out, it was partially "well that's different" and "oh yeah, figures." Violent world. Image

(obligatory Ken-Go and Dead Connection references:

ONOREEE
"Christine... Christine!"
Holy fuck, makes me wanna machinegun Marlon Brando AND James Caan Image)

Quote:
The JP revision of DD2AC, which has been supported by MAME for some while now, does seem to have some subtle differences with the US and World versions, such a flashing continue banner when you lose all your lives, but it doesn't seem to be all that of a significant departure from the US version.


Oh cool, thanks - just confirmed, that's the version ACA uses. Also, I discovered you can't actually die from an enemy Full Nelson, it'll just leave you at zero health. Classic Technos lifebar mystique... I still wonder if it's possible to go beyond the max starting level, if you rack up those end-stage HP restores while at or near max. Good idea to do so, either way.

Also, I reached Mission 4 at zero bar the other night, and got the full one back! You won't get a full bar back for reaching Mission 3. Quite nice of Technos, though not as nice as DD1AC restoring you to max every time, no questions asked. And neither's quite as generous as DD1FC's in-mission top-ups, with unlimited refills for backtracking through doors. I always dug that, cements the "for consumer platform" feel. I don't rely on it though, that's lame. :cool:

It's a little detail, but I like how militantly Technos stuck to their "no HP restore item" policy across their brawlers. Even in Monogatari et al you gotta buy your food, not eat out of the trash like a feral animal!

I read on Youtube that one of the Overseas versions defaults to zero lives in stock - pretty mean, given this game's harsh learning curve. The actual game didn't seem to play any differently though. Good thing, enemies are already pretty resilient by the end.

Quote:
I don't know about DD1AC, but all the voice samples in the original Kunio-kun and DD2AC were the voices of the actual developers recorded into the actual game. In the case of DD2AC, Kishimoto himself did the voice of Rowper according to his personal homepage.


Speaking of Kishimoto, I read recently that the car in DD1's intro garage is a reference to Road Blaster... I guess the helicopter in DD2's equivalent might refer to Thunder Storm? Maybe I'm completely off - to neat a coincidence not to spring for though!

EDIT: holy shit, yep, that's the one!

Spoiler: show
Image

Image


Quote:
I might had brought this up before here, but a cool detail in DD2AC that I never seen in any other belt-scroller (not even in Combatribes nor DD3AC) is the fact that each enemy type has his or her own death cry. It's a cool attention to detail.


Indeed, it's an excellent bit of personality - I think Burnov's my favourite (so whiny! "Uwaaahhh!"), but Abore's is interesting too, given how obnoxiously noisy he is until you beat him into submission. :lol: I particularly like the Doppelganger's creepily layered parting laughter, like an unseen crowd in the darkened arena. Not even a "Raging Demon," just an idly mocking one.

Gives new meaning to the AST trackname "Unleashing The Ogre." No more skulls to stomp, gotta put that shit back in the bottle.

I notice both of Kishimoto's AC Double Dragons really paid attention to their sound design... besides the ferocious impact SFX, and the bloodening kiais/barfs/yelps, there's also the environment. Various thrown objects make their own distinct scraping, bouncing sounds, machinery spins up with convincing industrial grit (SFX for elevator doors and internals), and although I prefer DD1's moody vacant lot, those cows! (I guess Willy's going for a survivalist aspect with his new hideout?)

Plus the always-cool touch of each boss having his own theme. Had to laugh at Willy's rather bouncy tune being repurposed as the FC's steam train BGM, but it fits there at least! OTOH the Doppelganger's WICKED GOD kills the FC's haunted mansion BGM with necromantic hypothermia.

I'm glad I can RAWK Burnov's Badass BGM now that it's no longer indelibly tied to FC stage 7 / Deadly Jungle Gym / LULZ Factory. What a fatass grinding riff!

Really underlines that coin-operated "amusement machine" largesse, something I highly value in stuff like AC Dracula (first stage's cavalcade of horrors) and Super Contra (hyper-detailed battle damage on the st1 Great Heli and Gyaba).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:45 am 


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BIL wrote:

(obligatory Ken-Go and Dead Connection references:

ONOREEE
"Christine... Christine!"
Holy fuck, makes me wanna machinegun Marlon Brando AND James Caan Image)


Ghouls 'n Ghosts also had Princess Guinevere/Prin-Prin being killed by Lucifer's laser in the start demo and the climax of Splatterhouse had Rick being forced to kill his girlfriend. 1988/89 wasn't exactly a good time period to be a damsel in distress in a video game.

Quote:
Oh cool, thanks - just confirmed, that's the version ACA uses. Also, I discovered you can't actually die from an enemy Full Nelson, it'll just leave you at zero health. Classic Technos lifebar mystique... I still wonder if it's possible to go beyond the max starting level, if you rack up those end-stage HP restores while at or near max. Good idea to do so, either way.


Who knows? I know DD3AC allows you to gain extra health beyond the 150% you're allowed to have with the health upgrade from the item shop if you clear a stage with little or no damage and have health recovery set to "on" via DIP switch, so it might be the same deal with DD1 and DD2. I know the amount of health you start the game with on both, DD1 and DD2AC, is pretty much the same since it takes the same amount of punches between two players to get one player's health to reach zero, which might had been around 23 punches.

Quote:
I read on Youtube that one of the Overseas versions defaults to zero lives in stock - pretty mean, given this game's harsh learning curve. The actual game didn't seem to play any differently though. Good thing, enemies are already pretty resilient by the end.


If I recall correctly, the factory settings for DD2AC is the same for both, the JP and US versions of the game, which has the game set on the second hardest setting with the second faster time limit and only two lives. There are no extends in the game, likely due to a bug in the game where a dead player gains point in 2P mode, allowing him to be revived. They might had been some difficulty adjustments to the JP revision, but I doubt it's something really dramatic. It's probably closer to the JP revision of Combatribes than something like DD3AC. The full heath recovery at the start of Mission 4 is something I did noticed during one of my playthroughs.

DD2AC was somewhat of a hard mode edition of DD1AC anyway, as basically most of the changes were done to make harder, like how all the stage transition sequels are done via elevator to prevent you from a carrying over a weapon to the next stage like you could in DD1AC.

Quote:
Speaking of Kishimoto, I read recently that the car in DD1's intro garage is a reference to Road Blaster... I guess the helicopter in DD2's equivalent might refer to Thunder Storm? Maybe I'm completely off - to neat a coincidence not to spring for though!

EDIT: holy shit, yep, that's the one!

Spoiler: show
Image

Image



Yep. And they both showed up in DD4 too.

Quote:
I notice both of Kishimoto's AC Double Dragons really paid attention to their sound design... besides the ferocious impact SFX, and the bloodening kiais/barfs/yelps, there's also the environment. .


DD3AC was apparently directed by Kishimoto, even though his name is not on the credits, apparently he had connections with some of the people who ran East Technology, although don't remember the exact details at the moment, but basically East Technology was founded by people who also ran Rollertron, a company that distributed DD2AC in Japan.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:59 am 


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Playing Saigo no Nindo for the first time in a few years. Making it back up to the brutal stage 6 on one credit now, but I've started peeking ahead with credit-feeding full runs.

What is this last boss? It seems completely absurd; despite all the discussion in this thread, I'm tempted to say that this fight is worse for the game than the ninja pit (which is undeniably awful but surprisingly easy to memorize even without the great guides previously posted here). I'd like to be proven wrong but it feels like the final boss fight is bordering on being a slot machine. If he fires out three shots or four shots in a row when you're on one side of him, I can't imagine how it's possible to reliably make it through; they can't be meaningfully misdirected if you're already near the side of the room given your slow movement speed, their fast speed, and the fact that they seem to undetectably switch between targeting you directly and trying to head you off (which would be fun under more lax circumstances, but feels unreasonable in the confines of this fight).

That said, BIL, at some point earlier this thread you made a post about a strategy where you misdirect the shots with a V-shaped movement patterns, being careful not to let them loosen into a W or something like that - for reference, can you post that again? I can't dig it up through search. I've watched your replays and tried to imitate that movement pattern, but I'm not having luck with it; it feels like mostly staying on the ground and making a short hop in the corner before moving back under him is more reliable; wide or long jumps almost always get me killed. (I'm also playing the fight while trying to recover, which makes your videos a bit inapplicable, but I assume recovering in this fight most be possible given that iconoclast's replay does it.)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:17 pm 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
Ghouls 'n Ghosts also had Princess Guinevere/Prin-Prin being killed by Lucifer's laser in the start demo and the climax of Splatterhouse had Rick being forced to kill his girlfriend. 1988/89 wasn't exactly a good time period to be a damsel in distress in a video game.


Aww jeez, I forgot they friggin killed poor Prin-Prin for Dai! Some decided oneupmanship going on, not only between companies but sequels too!

Quote:
DD3AC was apparently directed by Kishimoto, even though his name is not on the credits, apparently he had connections with some of the people who ran East Technology, although don't remember the exact details at the moment, but basically East Technology was founded by people who also ran Rollertron, a company that distributed DD2AC in Japan.


Interesting... now I really hope it gets an ACA release at some point, though god knows how complicated that might be.

---

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:
I'd like to be proven wrong but it feels like the final boss fight is bordering on being a slot machine.


He's a nightmare, but after some months, I seem to have assembled a reliable strategy for him. I wouldn't call him a lottery, but I would definitely agree he's unbalanced to your floaty movement. I think less vicious bolts, or destructible ones, paired with some sort of ground hazard would've tempered this fight nicely.

As it is: the key is to neutralise his randomness, which (as you say) you're not very equipped to deal with.

Quote:
BIL, at some point earlier this thread you made a post about a strategy where you misdirect the shots with a V-shaped movement patterns, being careful not to let them loosen into a W or something like that - for reference, can you post that again?


This has been my general tack since my first 1LC back in September, but it's only in the last month that it's really started to form up into a consistent pattern. Here are the kills from my three most recent 1LCs. The first has the general pattern, but panic-jumps at the very end. The latter two are progressively cleaner, though I've still some ways to go before calling it a day.

24/11/19

05/12/19

07/12/19


---

Before detailing the strategy, an important note on Rank. AFAIK, in Saigo, it only affects enemy HP - raising it incrementally as you collect POW spheres. Whether Shadows contribute, I do not know. To test it out, try doing this at x2 POW:

Spoiler: show
Image


Works every time. If you've got x3 POW, or an active Shield? He'll always survive just long enough to kill you.

RANK: I play at mid-rank, two POWs (Kusarigama & Grenades) and two shadows. This saves me a couple grenade hits on strong enemies and bosses. Having managed 1LCs at max rank and lower, I think this is the best balance and have stuck with it for now. I have a couple uses for POW Sword & Shuriken (st3-2 defense, st7-1 offense), but I've learned to compensate with normal Sword and POW Grenades, respectively.

Main difficulty is avoiding unwanted POW orbs at a few specific points, typically by blasting the carriers from a distance, and/or hopping them. If you accidentally put a POW orb directly in your path, scrolling it offscreen is a handy trick.

st3-2: Monks can complicate.

st4-1: a pair of them, following the initial Shadow carrier - easily worked around with bunnyhops.

st4-3: again no big deal. hop over and hustle on.

st5-1: victim of routine #1. master a stage route and the attendant speedkill (lots of Shields near the top), and this guy won't be an issue.

st6-1: if he spawns to your right, let him jump past you to avoid a complicating landmine.

st7-1: stationary, victim of routine #2. hustle past en route to the Mad Monk feat. Ryuichi battle.

st7-1: stationary, victim of routine #3. draw your shadows up, let him spawn, then hustle past.

It's not the end of the world if you end up grabbing POWs, but in a game this cut-throat you gotta take whatever edge you can. Image

---

STRATEGY: I'm 95% happy with it, though refinement is ongoing. I'll always make it to the second jump landing, every time. Improv is restricted to two points:

* Crafting the second jump arc for optimal bolt drag. you need to align with his weakpoint, to deal Shadow damage, so freedom is limited.

* Possible emergency evasion as the bolts near your corner. I currently bunnyhop out, but this is nervier than I'd like. WTB faster kill.

A very general four-stage outline, with variables (*) and pending issues (?):

1) run under him immediately, then execute the absolute highest, longest-lasting jump possible. The idea is to draw his fire up after you while dealing damage. Don't go too far left, only as much as needed to stay clear of the bolts.
*) try to hit him on your fall into the arena, but don't break your stride or delay the jump; this can get you killed. Hit him throughout the jump.
?) my start timing out of the Ninja Pit is very rough. I should figure out when exactly it's safe to start moving leftwards... the rock dragons' fadeout is my current "get ready" signal.

2) once the jump is over, head back underneath him.
*) I currently go for aggressive bunnyhopped upshots, nervous but doable. again, don't break your stride. First and third replays show absolute rat's nests of bolts in hot pursuit - don't worry, just keep moving.

3) second jump, drawing his bolts up but aligned to his weakpoint, so your Shadow can pound him while you're on the ground.
*) you want to prolong this situation, though bolt RNG will always compromise.
?) perhaps a higher jump could better misdirect bolts while leaving your second Shadow positioned to hit? or a pair of weakpoint-aligned jumps?

4) the kill. as noted, here is where things get dicey. he should be near-death at this point; in the above replays, I'm pretty sure I could've gotten away with an otherwise-doomed panic jump to the upper-right, but I went with more survivable leftward options. Earliest replay's panicky upper-mid jump would've probably died.
*) a max height jump to the left seems to risk certain death via high counter... in the latter two replays, I go with a bunnyhop executed late as possible.

This is very much an all-in "banzai" strategy, predicated on a relatively quick kill, but it seems to consistently work and greatly neutralise the deadly RNG. I will probably keep coming back to Saigo throughout the next year, and will record any changes or refinements. I find it hard to put down entirely. :mrgreen:

If it's of any use, here's my Saigo playlist, and also my Ninja Pit guide (I know you said you've cleared the pit, but just in case!).

Quote:
(I'm also playing the fight while trying to recover, which makes your videos a bit inapplicable, but I assume recovering in this fight most be possible given that iconoclast's replay does it.)


It's definitely possible to kill him on recovery, though I can't advise there - I'm too egotistical not to restart on death. :lol: (outside of crazy, recon-worthy glitches) I remember it feeling an absolute slog compared to the freedom of powerups, and my strategy relies on having POW grenades and at least one shadow, so I kinda fell into 1LC or bust.

That said, he must lose a ton of HP due to the rank reset, and there is a POW drop in the left corner (getting both it and the rightmost Shadow drop sounds optimistic). I don't find Saigo checkpoints too interesting, since the game compensates you generously, but figuring out a reliable final boss takedown could be interesting.
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Last edited by BIL on Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:39 am 


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My dream of a 1LC of shovel knight using shovel boi NG+ no upgrades, items whatsoever, no HP up... are dead.

died on the iron whale like 8 times in a row. The entire time I was trying to play i had an unpleasant conversation with cute workmate from over a month ago playing on loop in my mind.

Does anyone else get such mental chatter/audio interference when they're trying to do manly gamer feats?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:31 pm 


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Seems fairly common. You must dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed, BURINJU! Image

I myself tend to experience such things at the very end of 1LC attempts, most current example being Saigo no Nindou's relatively static yet infernally touchy final stage! ACTUAL FOOTAGE of 1LC candidate going "enough, STFU" while mischievous brain relays list of secret allies that make candidate's current 7-1 attack the most efficient, unbroken and impetuous in the... uh, on Youtube! (TWO TO HE BACK WHILE HE RUNNIN LIKE A BITCH Image) To wit:

Spoiler: show
SLEEPY
Image

THA DICK
Image

THA DARK STEPPES
Image

THA PUSSY CRACK
Image

THA ROOF SPIKE ANDY SIGNORE
Image

THA DICK JUNIOR
Image


Wasn't over Brexit was it. >_> In the last three years, I've seen that ongoing cockup cock-block more than one cocksure young cockerel! Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:34 pm 


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hahah Face to bloodshed.

I think i might just record SK no upgrades completion on the normal game. It's still a challenge. and i'll actually enjoy it this time around.

It wasn't about brexit, thank fuck. I've got quite an international bunch of workmates, varying shades of left. On second thought it's a wonder we haven't all murdered each other in a big bloody orgy.
Actually one of the guys fancies the same girl as me and challenged me to an arm wrestle in front of her, and i won. It was still fucking embarrassing for everyone involved tbh!!

Jesus that game looks nuts Birru.
It blows my mind just how many sidescroller actionz there are out there! Like, I'd discover things through this thread that I'd never hear of anywhere else.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:01 pm 


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Saigo is my retirement game. :mrgreen: An uncommonly seamless blend of icily calculating strategy and "OH HELLL NAW" RNG. The struggle for authoritative 1LC dominance will last and last. Per its ending sequence: "The desperate fight." Image

Blinge wrote:
I think i might just record SK no upgrades completion on the normal game. It's still a challenge. and i'll actually enjoy it this time around.


I notice that the sole with-deaths Saigo run I've uploaded, specifically to expose the fourth boss's BULLSHIET glitch, is informatively looser and somewhat more spontaneous than the 1LCs - now here is the dodge of a man who's lost everything, yet is well aware of the Kusarigama's total body projectile invincibility.

"Forget it. You can't kill me with that." Image

EDIT: god fucking damn. >_< Even did the diving board. The ultimate in teeth-bared, eye-gouging, skull-crushing "I want more LIFE FUCKER!" expressionistic defiance. I've been meaning to nail that on a 1LC... you gotta be careful. Too high = you stick to the ceiling, lmao lame. Too low? You're dead, bitch!

To be fair though, it wasn't a perfect DB. That would launch off the hard stop the near the head of the Obligatory IREM Dick™.

Spoiler: show
Image


Magnificent. (■`ω´■)

And re-watching my missy VS Castlevania 2-ALL, I was enjoying it too - nailbiting no-hit Loop 2 DEATH battle, demonstrating how to misdirect his nefarious sickle dragnet under merciless pressure, as per Akamatsu-san. A cleaner run would've never faced such peril, but it wouldn't have shown how to overcome it either.

Although the loss of no-miss prestige stings, there is an undeniable demonstrative value to warts n' all runs - ESPECIALLY when they involve getting your shit kicked in and clawing your way back up to the clear. Ultimately, on the arcade killing floor and its modern equivalents, it's about finishing the job on your one credit.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:20 pm 


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PC Engine - Strider - HARD + Extra Stage - Completed 1 Life

Here is a 1-life clear on the Hard difficulty + the extra stage. This version could have been so much more if they’d tweeked it a little, they were almost there. My main gripe are the controls. Firstly, when Strider changes direction from left to right he pivots on his front foot moving him from position rather than just flipping the character on the spot, you know like on every other platform game ever made.... its bizarre. Another oddity that wasn’t in the arcade/MD version is the ability to do a horizontal super-jump using the running inertia. To perform it you need to reach running speed by going down a slop and then release the direction and then do a neutral jump immediately, if done correctly Strider will do a diagonal super-jump with his vertical jump animation covering significantly more distance than if you’d held the direction and did the usual cartwheel jump. Examples are @3:56 @8:05 @3:17.

There are a lot of other weird level situations that are a little different from the arcade/MD if you were to try and use the same strats. A major one that sticks out for me are the drills that come out of the floor on the scrolling gravity section after ascending the closing walls. On the arcade/MD version you can hang from the ceiling and bypass them you won’t get hit, but on the PCE version they go a little higher and you have to wait for them to retract to get past them otherwise they’ll hit you.

The extra stage isn’t too hot and feels a little out of place, and the bosses are a pushover when you use the safe-spots. A nice addition to this version are the extra cut-scenes but I skipped them on this run to save time but they’re a nice addition.

https://youtu.be/U5deBSp-fbA
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:22 am 


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Aha, always been curious about that one! Helluva story behind its development, in case it's any news! It's a shame it couldn't have made it to SuperGrafx as planned... the machine seemed to handle CPS conversions really nicely, judging by Daimakaimura and 1941. A Strider conversion of that quality would've been interesting to compare with the valiant but rough-edged MD cart.

It looks like the graphics in particular really suffered on account of all the format-changing, not a patch on Forgotten Worlds' Super CD release. Sayanora, mountain minefield death-race vista. Then again, that turning quirk isn't encouraging, nor that hard camera lurch whenever Hiryu pivots.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to rush down the slope and vault through the stage 5 anti-gravity room? That's my second-biggest problem with the MD version nowadays, AFAIK you just can't do it without whacking your head on a drill. One of the PCB's great showpiece stunts. (first-biggest MD problem is the damn thing being literally impossible to 1LC, thanks to Ouroboros mkII no-showing at the boss rush! gotta suicide to proceed... that had to be brutal time pressure on the devs' part)

I see they toned down the st5 cheapshot machingunner, that's good at least. :mrgreen:

I know what you mean about the extra stage, the scale always looked all wrong to me... the Western-developed Strider 2 (MD) gives me similar vibes. Hiryu shouldn't be in one location for long, and said location should be buzzing with activity and/or filmic tension, preferably both. Looks like any random late-80s sidescroller. I do love the sentai-style ANTLION MAN midboss, though - that's a worthy followup to Ouroboros!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:33 am 


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Quote:
Aha, always been curious about that one! Helluva story behind its development, in case it's any news! It's a shame it couldn't have made it to SuperGrafx as planned... the machine seemed to handle CPS conversions really nicely, judging by Daimakaimura and 1941. A Strider conversion of that quality would've been interesting to compare with the valiant but rough-edged MD cart.

It looks like the graphics in particular really suffered on account of all the format-changing, not a patch on Forgotten Worlds' Super CD release. Sayanora, mountain minefield death-race vista. Then again, that turning quirk isn't encouraging, nor that hard camera lurch whenever Hiryu pivots.


Heya BIL. Ah yeah I’ve read that before. I’m not sure a format change would have saved it, I just thing the team weren’t as competent as the Daimakaimura fellas. Daimakaimura is a masterpiece in comparison, it almost feels as if they translated the source code like the MD version, it just feels the same as the AC version doesn’t it. not so much PCE strider :/

Quote:
Out of curiosity, is it possible to rush down the slope and vault through the stage 5 anti-gravity room? That's my second-biggest problem with the MD version nowadays, AFAIK you just can't do it without whacking your head on a drill. One of the PCB's great showpiece stunts. (first-biggest MD problem is the damn thing being literally impossible to 1LC, thanks to Ouroboros mkII no-showing at the boss rush! gotta suicide to proceed... that had to be brutal time pressure on the devs' part)


Nah I couldn’t get that to work, unfortunately. I love doing that part on the AC version, it’s almost as if they’d programmed that series of the jumps for cinematic effect, shame.

Quote:
I see they toned down the st5 cheapshot machingunner, that's good at least. :mrgreen:

Hah yeah, he’s a right pain on the AC/MD version isn’t he I did enjoy it though when I managed jump through his spray of bullets unharmed.

Quote:
I know what you mean about the extra stage, the scale always looked all wrong to me... the Western-developed Strider 2 (MD) gives me similar vibes. Hiryu shouldn't be in one location for long, and said location should be buzzing with activity and/or filmic tension, preferably both. Looks like any random late-80s sidescroller. I do love the sentai-style ANTLION MAN midboss, though - that's a worthy followup to Ouroboros!


Yeah I know what you mean, it’s all a bit flat and generic isn’t. It reminds me of the level design of Image Fight 2, just meh. Hah yeah the mid-boss is kinda cool I guess and was good enough to have a 100% safespot to boot.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:51 am 


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^ mosquito, slightly off-topic question, but since you just posted about a pce game and you're checking the thread, do you think w-rings is good? you have a play on your channel and i was curious how you liked it. been one i'm really curious about and you've got fine pce taste. while i'm at it, if you haven't seen this thread, i'd be super glad to have contributions in there - boop

sry y'all for lack of posting in here, lately! i'll have some more stuff to talk about and a few recordings next-time, probably! been busy holidays.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:36 am 


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Well once again I come bearing a less hardcore offering. :lol:

Shovel Knight - No Items, No upgrades

shovel only bro

Deaths included. I didn't fancy playing the submarine or alchemy lab stages repeatedly only to get quickly twatted by a boss designed for someone to be packing a lot more heat and health.
Plague Knight is horrific without HP upgrades!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:32 pm 


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why the hell none of you guys are talking about the upcoming english patches for Goemon 2, 3 and 4!!??
The hype is killing me right now, I love this series and I'm about to clear the 1st game with the new retranslation hack released a few days ago
https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4478/

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:22 pm 


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KAI wrote:
why the hell none of you guys are talking about the upcoming english patches for Goemon 2, 3 and 4!!??


I think because the translation release (of at least the 2nd title) has been promised and said to be on the verge of completion several times over the last few years and then never happened, but looks like this really is it this time! SRAM saves for the first game is a great addition considering the length and complexity of the passwords.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:26 pm 


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Good news! I might replay SFC Goemon 3. Enjoyed it enough to print out a guide for the handful of truly language-dependent puzzles and have since forgotten most of it. Image Pretty sure I missed a true ending, or something.

Blinge wrote:
Well once again I come bearing a less hardcore offering. :lol:

Shovel Knight - No Items, No upgrades

shovel only bro


God damn, didn't realise what a lengthy undertaking that was! Well done!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:28 pm 


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Blinge wrote:
Well once again I come bearing a less hardcore offering. :lol:

Shovel Knight - No Items, No upgrades


That's still pretty hardcore. Job really damn well done.

This is how I imagine you looked, avoiding all those tempting items and upgrades. and yes i'm totally just finding an excuse to repost this, lol
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:35 pm 


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:lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:40 pm 


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kitten wrote:
^ mosquito, slightly off-topic question, but since you just posted about a pce game and you're checking the thread, do you think w-rings is good? you have a play on your channel and i was curious how you liked it. been one i'm really curious about and you've got fine pce taste. while i'm at it, if you haven't seen this thread, i'd be super glad to have contributions in there - boop

sry y'all for lack of posting in here, lately! i'll have some more stuff to talk about and a few recordings next-time, probably! been busy holidays.


Heya mate. Yeah I like it a lot. I’ll try and do a small write up for the thread in a few days. Cool thread btw, the PCE needs more love.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:39 pm 


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BIL wrote:
God damn, didn't realise what a lengthy undertaking that was! Well done!


Haha, thanks guys.

Well it's quicker if you eschew the optional bosses and don't die as much as I do. Also I didn't skip dialogue.
Losing in that boss rush really adds a lot of time.

There's a cheev for finishing the game in under 1 hour 30 and i've got that.. but that was with upgrades.

I definitely wouldn't want to play the game in one sitting. Also if the game was any shorter I don't imagine the kickstarter crowd would've been happy.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:14 am 


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I talked with someone days ago about the Goemon hacks over Twitter (he since deleted the tweets as he prefers to speak about them in DM's and not publicly, but we did carry on a bit about them), they still need replacement graphics for 2 and 4, but GG 3 is done, the Ebisumaru puzzle game translation is also ready, and the guy was thinking about retranslating the first game as well. They want to release them all at once.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:04 am 


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It's probaby a coincidence that Contra games tend to be set in December, but over the holidays the desire to massacre alien horrors hit me and I replayed most of them. Here's a slew of semi-chronological thoughts...

* I hate the movement in Project C. Rizer crawls along laterally at the same pace as The Adventure Belmondo, while pressing jump launches him more than halfway up the screen. His movement path looks like the EKG of someone you just told the ending of Rise of Skywalker.

* Hard Corps' received a hold-button-to-aim hack, but it hasn't been 100% consistent for me, so I eventually went back to using just the Japanese-region-ication. The stage select code is great to zip to the other routes without dying from boredom as you replay the jungle base boss.

* The Contra Adventure's almost fun for one stage. Your 2D arsenal's just about the same as on SNES (but with L giving you Ray's vulcan laser from Hard Corps). Hazards are timed strangely, such as the Spirits' firespouts now becoming safe from the bottom UP.

* Despite the duller palette, Shattered Soldier has a lot of little graphical flourishes that probably look good with the widescreen copy-paster mentions. One touch that would have been nice would be to have your weapon visibly reconfigure as in the opening.

* I've disparaged Contra 4's sidescrolling stages before, so I want to be magnanimous and disparage its 3D corridors for being worse than The Contra Adventure's.

* Damn can Rebirth move sprites when it wants to. Genuine danmaku in Contra. The dull bits stick out more sorely in comparison, like the worse version of Shattered Soldier's shaft descent and the worse take on In the Hunt's boss from below.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:53 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Thanks! I was really inspired to try it out after your posts in What Not Shmup - figured there must be something interesting going on if you were playing it.

A finer compliment I shall never receive on the interweb :oops:
I'm off work, suffering from the flu and have a healthy dose of insomnia. Forgive the long post, I'm messing around with some media for the first time.



Still trying to get a no purchase no death River City Girls run. The last phase of the bosses can obliterate your health if you're not careful. On the Hibari fight, I made a few mistakes that whittled my health to half, but was still confident. And then I jumped into her bullets that just ate my health (receiving some bonus kicks too). I still don't know why I jumped...
Spoiler: show
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And then on my next run, Abobo got me on wake up:
Spoiler: show
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This attack is unblockable, and you have to run away as he sucks you in. But as it happened so fast on my wake up at point blank range, I had little chance. My own fault for getting hit by silly attacks earlier in the fight and losing health needlessly. Still, I'm enjoying the game despite the numerous annoyances I outlined previously (bugs, dodgy hitboxes, unintentionally entering doors, long cut scenes etc.)



Recently purchased some IDW comics of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I thought it time to play the Arcade game again. A long, long time ago, I played with my friend in the local chippy (we got to Shredder but never did finish it because the owner - a tall, well built curly headed woman - threatened to tell our parents we were wasting our money on games. Of course we legged it for fear of getting our pocket money revoked). The intro brought back so many memories:
Spoiler: show
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And the animations are as glorious as I remembered.
First play through I got absolutely murdered - but I loved every second of it :lol: It did get better, and I can no miss the first two stages fairly reliably. This video with closed caption commentary was a great help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PcKmdYK8ZA
Loving the simple footsie orientated gameplay. A 1cc looks well doable, even for me, so looking forward to spending more serious time with this one.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:57 pm 


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Oh yeah seeing as my SK video is so long ppl probably didn't see.

skip to 1:00:38 for some pixelated brutality lool - https://youtu.be/iY6ATFzif9s?t=3638
I'm sure birru will approve
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:03 am 


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Beaten to death with a shovel in the snow. An authentically \M/ETAL demise ImageImageImage
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:21 am 


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