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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:13 am 


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Wow BIL, I've been avoiding The Ninja Saviors posts for fear of spoilers, but since I cleared the game, I went back to check in case I missed something. Your write up on the game is superb! Bravo.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:05 am 


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Thanks! :smile:

Went for a quick Kunoichi Hard 1CC last night and had a blast. I'll have to finish that startup guide I was writing.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:38 pm 


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I like how I've been seeing time improvements regardless of character used and more simply from familiarity with the game.

My first clears were 3200, 3000, and 3000 for Yaksha, Ninja, and Kunoichi. My best times (approx) for them are now 2800, 2700, and 2600. Still nothing to write home about, but it is always cool to see improvements.

Would like to eventually get sub 2500 with all three.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:47 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
BIL wrote:
I've just looked up Johnny Turbo's arcade, and dear sweet Christ. I wouldn't have thought it was possible to make a trailer for Night Slashers depressing. :|

EDIT: aw jeeze, their trailers absolutely blow. Powerpoint slides and random muzak over barely-audible game sound? That's THE REAL ARCADE FEEL! Here's Nitro Ball.

I miss 24 hours ago, when I could still cheerfully lampoon the phrase "real arcade feel!"


The Johnny Turbo's ports of arcade games are laughable garbage and it's a shame that a genuinely good belt-scroller like Night Slashers couldn't had been licensed to someone who could actually treat the game with proper care and respect.

I remember when they released Bad Dudes vs. Dragonninja last year, they used someone's fanart from Deviantart that was basically sprite edits from the Neo-Geo Double Dragon game.


Genuine question, do you have any issues with them other than the presentation? The presentation sucks, and the in-game potions are a mile behind the AA series, but the games themselves seem intact enough.

Picked up Sly Spy, Caveman Ninja 1 & 2 and Nitro Ball at full price, and can't really find any massive issues. Just sprung for Heavy Barrel, Super Burger Time and Wizard Fire as they're all half-price on the eShop at the moment.

My only real worry is that we'll never even get Midnight Resistance, seeing as how the rotary controls may actually require some small amount of work to implement.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:48 pm 


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I'm curious about that too, not got a Switch to try them out myself unfortunately.

I still hope something comes of G-Mode and ACA. At least one title made it through, albeit not one I'm terribly interested in (Karate Champ). Not to go full brand loyalist, but with some of the el cheapo emulation fiascoes over the last decade, trust isn't easy to come by.

Following TANK, it seems Ikari III and Datsugoku have indeed been announced for ACA, plus Guevara. As mentioned a page back, I know the latter three's arcade versions tend to get slagged off in comparison to the excellent FC interpretations, but as a completist it's still cool to see this stuff get ACA treatment. I'm particularly curious about Datsugoku. The FC version's killer brawling engine was held back by lackustre stage design, not on par with the rampaging topdown killers.

Most interesting ACA thing to happen lately is Kaitei Daisensou and Detana Twinbee... not that said STGs aren't cool, but both share hardware with stuff I'd love to see Hamster pick up (Geostorm, Undercover Cops, Sunset Riders and Surprise Attack, to name a few). If I'm not mistaken they're also the most modern (early 90s) hardware attempted by the line so far. I've been seriously impressed with their handling of 80s stuff - finally retired my painfully claustrophobic Arcade Gears: Image Fight & X-Multiply PS1 disc and got to grips with old nemesis Saigo, plus a fat stack of other stuff to keep me busy for years. Would be rad if they could manage something similar with Konami, Taito, IREM and Tecmo's less-ported/un-ported early 90s material.

also RAINBOW ISLANDS pls! Image They got Bombjack up fine so I can't imagine the nicked BGM would be an issue.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:47 pm 


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My main beef with the Johnny Turbo games is that they don't support tate mode in the correct orientation, so it's impossible to use them with the Flip Grip. Would love to play Nitro Ball that way, but alas.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:53 am 


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Re: Johnny Turbo games - Can't you *not* turn off that softened screen filter? I recall screen options being pretty limited on those releases. I had picked up Caveman Ninja and Crude Buster and was pretty disappointed with them based on that alone.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:08 am 


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I think Karate Champ is on ACA because it was made by Technos and only distributed by Data East (though I wouldn't mind being mistaken in this case). However, I'm a bit mixed on how it was handled since it controls with the analog sticks with no option to remap to digital controls. I have both the PS4 and Switch versions. I was hoping the issue would be fixed on Switch, but sadly, this isn't the case. Crazy Climber also has the same issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:47 am 


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Aw jeez. 3;< Yeah that makes sense, RE Technos/DECO/G-Mode. Shame about the controls, I've wondered about both Crazy Climbers. They look amusing, at the least. The way our peeping protagonist bawls when he gets smacked in the mouth, lmao. Nichibutsu's a company I only rarely look into, but I'm usually pretty impressed when I do.

Also - I knew Technos had splintered off of DECO in the early 80s, but I had no idea they did Karate Champ. That'd make them the originators of the beltscrolling and head-to-head fighting genres, I guess?

I wouldn't know where to start looking WRT licensing... all I know is that G-Mode's logo is on Karate Champ's ACA page, and that game is on their website. Along with a bunch of killer stuff I rly hope doesn't end up forever tied to some goddamn charlatans. Image Image

Not to get too downbeat. Friggin DotEmu were handling IREM stuff at some point this decade, and now a good chunk of the M72's best is in fine form via ACA.

RE Technos, Xain'd Sleena would be cool. I've no idea WTF it is other than a sidescroller of some description, but it's another of those relative obscurities Drum (RIP) liked. Mach Rider appreciators gotta stick together.

Also speaking of TJC and sidescrolling, WTF is this? Sai Yu Gou Ma Roku AFAIK? :o I need to brush up a bit, I'd assumed it'd be some obscure Korean thingy. Strange and wonderful, hearing those unmistakably walloping *DSHHH* facepunch SFX in a platformer. No idea if it's any good or not, but the armed combat and cute/brutal Journey to the West styling gets my attention. EDIT: Haha, it's like Son Son: Barfight Label. Nice rack on Onihime there. Image

From Nichibutsu, I hope Ninja Emaki pops up at some point. Just because the opening's transition from aerial pursuit to ground-based run/gun always looked badass and I dig that crossbow-wielding player character. I'm a sucker for Kamui-style ninja designs. Speaking of:

---

Vanguard wrote:
Is a bomb's splash radius enough to get through their swords?


SOME FRICKIN NOOB wrote:
Very tentatively, I think that's about it. Exploit the splash to bypass their sword


Oh shi-

Spoiler: show
Image


Them CONNECTIONS ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) (WARNING: that GIF is lousy as hell, current method whacks him KONTORA-style with no jump needed - interestingly, you don't want the Shield active, it seems to hog the grenades' DPS. just hop down the convenient "V" provided by the godawful creepy spidery tree, then finagle your shadows parallel to the boss's head while hugging the right screen edge. My nearer shadow is a bit low there, crummy execution as mentioned! as long as you hug the right screen edge, the near Rifles will miss you while the far ones get blown up by excess grenades.

a silly little thing, like every Saigo boss outside of st4 & 7. but as always, if an easy boss can at least be the exclamation point on a dominant stage performance, that is cool! this is why st6's really sucks, although it is certainly a welcome breather!

actually knew about this from the PCE conversion, where st3/THE BEAST HANZO unfortunately really is a Contra Zamboni due to his Rifles going AWOL. one of that mostly-estimable conversion's erratic "Wait WTF?" changes)

---

I'm calling it quits on my Saigo 6-2 grenade research. Ultimately, your weapons aren't your primary asset there. It's your jump, specifically the bunnyhop and mid-heights' role in spoofing Ryuichi mkII and Monk AI (specific jump typically determined by Ghost's current location. I'm head-canoning him to be just one twisted spirit who keeps coming back. with his creepy resemblance to Tsukikage, conjecture abounds! ah, ellipsis) Weapons are primarily for chipping down said enemies once you've put them at your back, killing them when they've finally caught up to you. Also for countering Wind Demon flak. I find the latter enormously more complex to do with grenades, relying as they do on pre-emptive kills. Kusarigama's versatility wins here. Sword is great for anti-flak but as neat as countering Ryuichis (of either stripe) is in theory, you'll get eaten alive focusing on one target.

Also, I've found it helps to kill Ryuichi mkI and Monks outright in 6-1. The former's ideal spoof, a deft up-close bunnyhop, takes enough concentration and precision that tailgaters can distract dangerously.

(RE 6-1: I'm pretty confident that the game can't spawn two of the same heavy enemy from one side in rapid succession, at least not too rapid. I've yet to have a credit where I bunnyhop a Ryuichi only to get his opposite number's katana in my face. You can most definitely find a Monk waiting for you, but they're auto-spoofed by an airborne player, where Ryuichis will happily gash you on landing if not slipped, a scary technique it's best to avoid needing in the first place)

Switch to gathering tails in 6-2, chipped down as mentioned. Ryuichi mkIIs are likewise auto-spoofed when your Y position beats theirs, so there's no risk of 6-1's dreaded Waiting Ryuichi turning your bunnyhop into a bunny gets his friggin' head chopped. :shock: Image

I will say for the last time, as it's become a lament of mine, that I wish the st6 boss/ZOMBIE ARMY MACHINE IS READY (I made that shit up!) wasn't such a total washout. Have 'em spawn at random locations for Inexorably Advancing Wall Of Death Slow Zombie™ action, and this would be the single best stage I've seen in any action anything. Sixty seconds of merciless yet finely-calibrated chaos, punctuated by a handful more to admire the Abbey Road-worthy plains traversal, with steely technique the only shield against ignoble death, or even worse... ignoble survival. Image

BURY YOUR HEAD AND SILENCE YOUR CRY
Spoiler: show
Image


In a microcosm of the game and its despicable ninja pit, even with this late pratfall it's world-beating quality. It's also as notable for what it doesn't throw at the player - having both Ryuichi variants co-exist in either section would push things over the line, from calculated improv to outright Russian roulette.

Seeing my 1LC ratio creep up with the above points in mind, to a formidable... 45%? :oops: Image Trickiest thing about the stage is nerve. Consistently waiting to see what I'm handed before reacting. Pre-emptive moves kill the tension, and can work out handsomely, but they can also leave you up shit creek, say if you find yourself needing a bunnyhop while somewhere off the top of the screen.

Alternating Saigo and Metal Slug AECKS makes me more curious than ever about possible staff overlap or at least influence. Positioning your explosives to overlap multiple targets in both games is unmistakably similar, particularly when destroying multiple boss parts. Typing on fumes but I could write a frickin massive list of other stuff that jumps out.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:00 am 


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Graduated to hard mode full time with Ninja, Kunoichi, and Yaksha. My normal runs while not perfect, have gotten to the point where it generally isn't if but how fast.

I think the increased difficulty will continue to help me improve. Once I get somewhat competent at hard maybe I'll go back to normal and see if my times improve.

Hard run last night with Y ended on stage four boss because of poor lackey management. Continued once and made it to early stage seven.

Normal run with Raiden to stage three. Still trying to figure him out, but haven't played anything other than an occasional random credit with him.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:43 am 


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I need some goddamn sleep, all that warbling elsewhere and I didn't even twig that NINJA RYUKENDEN GAIDEN's scenery-smashing is not only visceral AF, but also an integral game mechanic - as it's the only way to get at the goodies within! :o So rad, and a powerful incentive to not merely belt a flagging chump to the floor, but scoot around to his back and kick him headfirst through a plate-glass window. Blaow! And hey, even if they kick the shit out of you, landing on scenery might get you something nice! Like the sword, a WEAPON FOR KILLING Image

It's no POLISH FINAL FIGHT (oh hell no :shock:) but it's pretty strong stuff regardless! Some of the most invigoratingly pulpy beltscrolling this side of Technos.

Obiwanshinobi wrote:
You lads like to cause pain in your games, don't you?


You called it old friend Image

And the way the inputs stack is smooth as hell. Hold [attack] and run around freely, then hit [jump] for instant guillotine throw. Hold [grip] for similarly instant pullups when near a grip point. Waggle the stick during combos to batter enemies on both sides ala Bare Knuckle 1.

EDIT: oh also!

Image

If you too are playing the Arcade Archives version, you may notice the default difficulty is labeled EASY (1 out of 4). This is actually the PCB's default too, at least according to all the operator manuals I've found. In the Ninja Gaiden (US) manual, it goes "Normal/Special1/Special2/Special3." So I would leave it be, rather than jacking it up one. YMMV OFC!

---

Ikari is perhaps the most hilariously rueful topdown shooting I have ever seen. You're gonna i-frame out of that exploding tank at the last second, are you. lmaooo! RIP the back of your head! You're gonna i-frame into it before that grenade lands? Holy fuck this isn't Metal Slug son, you will die and then get respawn-frogmarched straight onto a landmine. Oh shit, that building is about to explBLPTHHH Look PVT BLUE, one of us is about to die screaming, but PLS don't chuck a grenade at me inadvertently wiping out those two tanks I wan - oh you blue bitch. Large-scale detonations have such ruinous consequence for player and enemies alike, it's blackly riotous. :mrgreen:

Also, the triad of limited ammo, mortally dangerous combat and regular restocks works brilliantly, as does the contiguous map. I could see it seeming shockingly archaic and slow at first, but between the brutally unforgiving action and relentless upscreen massacre-march, this thing has authentic Doom Grind pace. Grimly slaughtering your way into a precious tank before unleashing earth-razing hell is like ascending to GOD OF AFRICAN CONTINENT/GHOST OF SOLDIERS in real time. Image

I have to be honest, as much as I love FC Guevara (I paid friggin balls for that thing), it's a relief not having to worry about hostages. This is like FC Guevara: KILL EM ALL Label. Image

Image

I know KOF94 couldn't very well go with a palette-swap of RARUFU, but it's still great how Clark looks exactly like Ikari's PVT BLUE. Headcanon: the entire pre-Neo Ikari series is just RARUFU drunkenly fantasising about murdering his buddy a million times.

Image

Senjou no Okami II's zako look exactly like Ikari's who look exactly like Clark too!
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Last edited by BIL on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:24 am 



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BIL wrote:
also RAINBOW ISLANDS pls! Image They got Bombjack up fine so I can't imagine the nicked BGM would be an issue.


Tecmo already had an edited Bomb Jack ROM with different music, but I'm not sure the same is true of Taito and Rainbow Islands.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:26 am 


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BIL wrote:
If you too are playing the Arcade Archives version, you may notice the default difficulty is labeled EASY (1 out of 4). This is actually the PCB's default too, at least according to all the operator manuals I've found. In the Ninja Gaiden (US) manual, it goes "Normal/Special1/Special2/Special3." So I would leave it be, rather than jacking it up one. YMMV OFC!


Seems almost like a pattern for Tecmo. Star Force's default is "Easiest", IIRC, and it's far from easy. Wii U version set the default to medium, which is just plain crazy.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:51 am 


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GSK wrote:
Tecmo already had an edited Bomb Jack ROM with different music, but I'm not sure the same is true of Taito and Rainbow Islands.


I know it'd be considered sacrilege by some, but given the alternative of close/no cigar PCE-CD RI, I'd be happy with the barest of hacks ala ACA Ryukenden's "Iron Man" workaround (the stage 2 BGM plays over the fight).

Actually, now I'm wondering if ACA Ryukenden used one of the previously de-Sabbathed revisions seen in past official emulations. Doesn't seem like them to do that, though. I guess I'll go pentagram hunting in stage 4.

Incidentally... I'm easily amused by VGM trivia, but on the off chance anyone else enjoys the work of JP power metal veterans and Falcom/Konami associates Anthem, Ryukenden's stage 1 BGM Shadow Soldier is a much more distant yet still recognisable cover of their Bound To Break. :lol: (compare here to here, "Out of bounds / Bound to break" yo - genius steals! Image)

I'd be all MIDNIGHT AVENGER while hurling that ninja squad to their deaths when that bit hits, but it's broad daylight! (edit: speaking of, I love how those guys tend to strike during 2D platform sequences - smart use of lower-HP enemies.)

FC Double Dragon II evasion denial sense tingling!
Spoiler: show
Image


BrianC wrote:
Seems almost like a pattern for Tecmo. Star Force's default is "Easiest", IIRC, and it's far from easy. Wii U version set the default to medium, which is just plain crazy.


Interesting... and yeah, Ninja Ryukenden Gaiden (THATS ITS OFFICIAL THREAD NAME :cool:)'s "Easy" sure as hell isn't either. Enemies will beat the tar out of poor Ryu from the get-go if you're a split-second off. It's so cool. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:20 am 


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Funny thing is that the Lynx version actually has "I am man" intact, despite missing the stage where the road warrior look alike first appear.

The recent SNK classic collection's version of Vanguard actually has the Flash Gordon movie theme sound alike intact.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:04 am 


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I just saw this posted over in the Exa Arcadia thread -- did you guys know there was an arcade Gimmmick! port being worked on? The new graphics are worse than the original, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:35 pm 


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Won't happen, but Ralf and Clark should get their own r2rkmf game that isn't a Metal Slug.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:02 pm 


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More TNWOA.

Ninja on hard. Jubei naturally is a small hiccup once again, but becoming less of one. Notable choke points I have discovered for myself:

- Elevator right before Zelos

This one caught me by surprise the first time, but only the first time.

- Last part right before the hangar on the final stage

Four or five of those giant fucks. Again only the first time.

I'm close to the 1 CC, should have it within the week if all goes OK.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:17 pm 


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ITS ME MUHFUCKA (`ω´メ) wrote:
TActually, now I'm wondering if ACA Ryukenden used one of the previously de-Sabbathed revisions seen in past official emulations. Doesn't seem like them to do that, though. I guess I'll go pentagram hunting in stage 4.


Yep, st4's Boss Rug is missing the star of David (suddenly I can't recall if any of the OG NGs ever featured pentagrams). I guess this uses the scrubbed ROM indeed. Dammit, I wanted that Satanic Panic goodness! Also, that rug really tied the scene together! Image

Some genuine excellence in this game's vistas, as I'd expect from the company behind Rygar. The way st2's night-time harbour view goes from isolated beacons to the looming NYC skyline is magic. I was concentrating on the action (guillotining those bikers Kunio-style) and didn't look up until the latter had fully scrolled in, loved it.

Stevens wrote:
Won't happen, but Ralf and Clark should get their own r2rkmf game that isn't a Metal Slug.


My dream Ikari IV would include a fresh run of Loop Levers, and be every bit as gruelingly-paced yet instantly punishing as the original. "Just you wait PVT BLUE, you bitch-ass sniper, I'm gonna wade across this stream and jam this knife up your WAIT FUCK WHERE'D THAT GRENADE COME FRO-"

Add a few congruent amenities like an automelee knife, but otherwise, deliberately avoid Shock Troopers polish. I love ST more than perhaps any other topdown action, but it already exists. I'm talking absolute wilderness deathgrind across jungle and swamp and desert, with the occasional fortress to tear through and a bit of urban warfare to cap off. No spreadshots or homing bullets and sure as shit no panic bombs, just dodgy MG spray and infernally mercurial frag with the odd flamethrower and bazooka. No i-frames whatsoever, just Crawl On C to duck the rampant shrapnel.

TANK should realise the avowedly game-changing impact of the original. Shakes the screen as it rumbles along, only deep water can stop it. Infantry should actively flee to cover, with RNG allowing for the odd hothead ala Metal Slug. No more rapidfire shelling. MS-style vulcan A/cannon B split, the former nerfed down to zako clearance only, the latter a terrain-obliterating god-hammer with long setup and monster payoff. One direct hit from enemy shell or landmine will fatally damage, a couple grenades/RPGs same. Ram it into something obnoxious then run like hell and hit the dirt (DIVE ON C), iron beast death throes will rip through armour and turn infantry to red mist. A few lesser mounts like jeeps and motorcycles would be cool, no commandeerable aircraft though. This is the business of returning Mother Earth's quarrelsome children to her pacifying embrace. Image Selection of TANK from lightly-armoured half-tracks to fortress-trampling behemoths, but nothing wacky ala MS or NAM.

Must be 3:4 aspect with minimal slowdown. Hidden characters LEONA (cannot haul as much ammo as R/C but build RAGE METER with CQC for temporary NAM-style i-frame dodge and adrenaline-fuelled feral murder frenzy) and JEIDERN (must use that spelling, uses JEIDERN ASSASSINATION TECHNIQUES to take down scads of enemies). Clark can shoulder a shit-ton of ammo. Ralf has a killer throwing arm. EDIT: hidden characters must be unlockable with Konami code at character select.

STOLY: Ralf and Clark work for Geese to save his abducted rabbit from disgruntled third-world business associates, who are going to turn it into a burrito and mail it back to him. These assclowns think Geese will negotiate, but actually he just wants them murdered to the last man - nobody can learn of his Terry-esque fondness for small furry creatures! Ralf doesn't like rabbits getting needlessly fucked up, but more importantly needs cash for booze, increasingly the only thing that keeps his Ikari in check. Clark doesn't care about rabbits and has no dependencies, such things having been seared away in basic - he just wants to test his theory that bathing in enough gallons of battlefield blood might make him forget the time he overslept and got his entire squad massacred. (KOF FACTS)

Ending sequence's handover should have Geese attempt to get luciferous with a remark about "Stain you hanz wiz brud :twisted:" before offering the nonchalant boys full-time employment (AKA setting up their murder, as the only surviving witnesses to his bunny affections) - only to trail off upon recognising not mere dogs, but a pair of fellow apex predators who, UNLIKE GEESE, still go out and kill their own food. He brusquely tells them to leave his office, then pours some scotch and reflects with some disquiet on the old days when he, too, stain his hanz wiz brud. The rabbit, a helpless kept thing who nevertheless possesses keener instincts than any man, thinks to itself: "Bitchmade! :shock:" Get some amorality back in this merc game, naw mean. Image

Quote:
- Elevator right before Zelos


A handy and somewhat chintzy glitch, which I kinda hope gets patched out ( :lol: ) - throw the stage's last Item Boxes so they land near the elevator entrance. After the elevator crash, move over to the far left and the items will be there to pick up. Headcanon: that bilblical elevatorsplosion (so goddamn good Image) took out the upper floors of the compound! Image

(the iron maiden-esque chambers lining the elevator's upward path really stood out on recent sessions. Along with the glaring Biohazard symbols at the lab entrance, which is flung across a yawning chasm, plus the gore-streaked, claw-marked SUPER BEING MONITOR near the elevator, I like how they reinforced Zelos's new caged beast aesthetic. He's kinda imperious on SFC; here, he's seething bioengineered primal rage, a much better fit for that fetching cyber-mankini)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:25 pm 


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BIL wrote:

A handy and somewhat chintzy glitch, which I kinda hope gets patched out ( :lol: ) - throw the stage's last Item Boxes so they land near the elevator entrance.

(the iron maiden-esque chambers lining the elevator's upward path really stood out on recent sessions. Along with the glaring Biohazard symbols at the lab entrance, which is flung across a yawning chasm, plus the gore-streaked, claw-marked SUPER BEING MONITOR near the elevator, I like how they reinforced Zelos's new caged beast aesthetic. He's kinda imperious on SFC; here, he's seething bioengineered primal rage, a much better fit for that fetching cyber-mankini)


Nah I won't be doing that but I appreciate the suggestion. I do really like the lead up to Zelos...they did a good job with it.

As far as a bigger "I'm glad they're dead" type enemy I was thinking of a larger claw typed fucked similar to Zamza from SOR 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:40 pm 


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Claw Dad would be very cool, I can't believe I never thought of that. :mrgreen: Balanced in such a way that the annoying regular sort suddenly wouldn't seem quite as bad.

The last survivor of the cyber troopers from Shinobi III, the one you fight in the burning forest stage, would be a natural fit. I'd love to get an enemy with that sort of fullscreen boost dash, a really aggressive space-invader. I just like the idea of suddenly whipping the rug out from under the player with a small cabal of enemies who, unlike the rest, are expressly there to kill androids. Give the game's central "holy shit, the rebel scum have developed battle droids!" ethos a jolt, and give me a target worthy of several punches in the face and a followup nunchaku thrashing from MAH BOI. Ain't nobody on the current roster deserve that!

Unless they gangin up, ofc. They do that and I'll crush their skulls one by one. (`ω´メ)
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Ah, goddamnit. I usually avoid extended what-iffery (makes me think to myself "why don't you L2CODE then noob?!"), but when TNWOA exists at all (with a third Tengo Project on the way!) it's hard not to.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:49 am 


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Got all the way to Zelos legit. Had almost all my health, but couldn't quite get it done. Continued, lost more health in the elevator, and killed Zelos.

Ugh.

Noticed something interesting while playing the last few days regarding Ninjas dash.

The hit box on it is I guess sort of wonky - I've landed hits on attacking enemies while dashing away from them. Specifically claws (when they dive at you) and Phobos/Deimos during their slide attack.

I don't think it is something that I would want to cultivate as part of my arsenal. I've gotten it to work several times, but I definitely don't have the timing down yet. Never mind that Ninja has far better options. That said as a last second defense? Why not?

Also Kunoichi's neutral jump slash - claw dive will pass through your legs.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:15 am 


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I've been experimenting with Kunoichi's neutral air katana myself, it seems more capable of stuffing enemy attacks than on SFC... at least I think. I never used it much there tbh, but you end up with more occasions to bust it out in TNWA simply on account of the drones. I did get some promising results VS Claw dive/rolls and Katana dropkicks.

For Claws, once you've gotten a feel for their dive/roll telegraphs, the best thing to do is get your guard up ASAP. Of course that's not always possible, but ideally you want to let 'em smack into your block, then batter them on recovery with a quick PP[grab]Atomic Drop.

(note that Ninja has a "rabbit punch" mechanic that'll let him punch Claws while standing, the hits connecting as his fist reels back in - it's usually simpler to just crouch, but I like to know this stuff!)

For Ninja's 7-2 elevator, and close combat melees in general, a really handy tack is to just bust out standing PPP relentlessly. The nunchucks will cause bidirectional i-framed carnage even if you're not particularly aiming at anything, buying you lots of time to spot and zero in on priority targets. Adopting this "fire and forget" approach on the SFC version made my subsequent runs like night and day.

TNWOA Zelos was the first and really only boss where I felt compelled to use Ninja's front tumble - the range on his strikes was keeping me out, and defending made me a sitting duck for his crowd. As always with SFC+Remake, the tumble (and the other characters' equivalents) will spoof the hell out of enemy AI, gifting you a nice window to combo+grab 'em.

Revisiting TNWOA, it really hit me how utterly dominant the player is versus a downed enemy. No Technos ground-pounds, but Kunoichi's painfully stubby combo in particular is almost not worth using raw, compared to the ease with which she can shred a waker-upper after a quick bulldozer. In Ninja's case, once they hit the floor they're done. Obviously this ignores the crowd threat, but that's not such a problem either in a game with perhaps the best Bowling Pin Brawling ever!

(I am friggin loving Ninja Ryukenden Gaiden, but it does kinda sting how there's no BPB, given that sending enemies careening and crashing through scenery is no gimmick but a legit vital technique)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:37 am 


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Your boy is ma boy Biru.

Ninja hard 1 CC UNLOCKED.

Tooth and nail fights against Jubei and Zelos. Pretty clean run through the final stage followed by a Banglar fight that was slightly in my favor but not dominatingly so.

Whenever I elbow drop I picture Macho Man saying OH YEAH. Glad I got this one, felt earned.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:25 am 


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Congrats! And yes, JIGOKU no ELBOW DROP is every bit a finisher worthy of the Macho Man! Image

YOU DON'T HUNT WHAT YOU CAN'T KILL! HOOOO YEAHHHHH
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:35 am 


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May have mentioned this already, but I wish the game had a local fastest time table.

Top ten overall times or even fastest clear by character would have been nice.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:52 pm 


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Almost got past Zelos on a Hard Ninja Saviours run. Everything was going well. Hell, I even played the Jubei fight perfectly. Almost had full meter, and two attacks would've killed Zelos. It was pretty tight. Felt it was in the bag, and went to pick up a robot (minus his head) to swing and throw at Zelos, when the blasted thing threw me instead and did a sizeable amount of damage killing me. Was pretty confident I would've cleared the last level. Oh well. Thinking of moving on. While the game is good, it's hella long and a little boring to breeze through most of the game to get to the challenging parts. Raiden didn't peak my interest as I though he might - super great design and idea, but he's not clicking with me as yet. Also, River City Girls just arrived and I wanna play that. I'll probably still play a run here and there.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:02 pm 


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Leviathan wrote:
went to pick up a robot (minus his head) to swing and throw at Zelos, when the blasted thing threw me instead and did a sizeable amount of damage killing me.


They love doing that. Image Spoofin' em with a tumble-in will usually foil them - note how they'll "WTF? Dammit!" as you invincibly roll past their grip.

THE THEME OF GOLEM ♫ Head comes off, SHIT GETS REAL Image

Just like the SFC original, as excellent as the content is, TNWOA's definitely a bit overlong and under-pressured for an arcade-based single-sessioner. You have to be really into optimising the earlier stages to not feel underworked in st1-4. I think it's actually more pronounced in TNWOA, since the wider playfield gives enemies so much more legwork to get near you. I really fell in love with SFC stage 3-1/Hard, in my recent sessions... was proud of my eventual no-knockdown runs there. Tight, devious wave design that can't really kill you, but can definitely embarrass you. And that's even worse!

However, TNWOA adds a much higher performance ceiling for authoritatively stylin' all over the screen, so it works out imo.

WTB a coin-op re-release that tops out at ~30mins with deadly pressure no later than five in. Literally WTB, I'd get an Exa for it. Image

For now though, imma fire up Kunio for arcade-spec ULTRAVAIORENCE. Image

Image Image Image
If you fuck with me, the police are going to have to come and get me off your ass!
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^ that kneeing animation, holy fuck rawwwk! Image DRIVE THE KNEE INTO THEM REPEATEDLY LIKE A SPEAR Image 100% UNREFINED VIOLENCE Image

Actually wait, fuck, I could play Vigilante. But it's amazing how utterly it and Spartan and the original Ninja Warriors don't resemble TNWOA, at all, due to their lack of grappling. That physicality is such a paradigm shift away from pure striking... the aforementioned play nearer Castlevania's stage 1-1 than TNWOA, really. Crumbs! Was this subgenre ever revisited in the arcades, post-TNWA? I sometimes wonder if there's some obscure thing out there, perhaps for Japanese PCs. Even with the internet and emulation making it so easy to see everything, I still come across STGs and beltscrollers I've never heard of.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:45 am 


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the bonus stage in MD Shadow Dancer is fucking interminable yo. really breaks up the action. can't insta-fail it like the arcade games, either. its like 30 seconds long or something. argh
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:44 am 


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another thing I don't like about the game is the floaty jumps. makes each little maneuver less satisfying cuz you aren't just like...jumping in and taking out the enemy and moving on in one swift motion like in the arcade games. its just so much more sluggish. that being said the level design is still really good and theres some really devious stuff going on in the latter stages on the highest difficulty.
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