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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:22 am 


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BIL wrote:
Note also you can exploit this, especially when combined with his crouch-run, to move straight through/onto enemies for EZ side-switch+MEATY HITZ!


Ah, so there was an easier alternative to guard-jumping past every single enemy to avoid pincer attacks. I've noticed his ability to effortlessly pass through enemies while crouching, but most attempts at experimentation ended in ugly knockdowns. Guess I need some more practice.

Vanguard wrote:
Camp on either the far left or right side and do the kick throw to anything that gets close. Sarus and the little robots are too short to hit with, but anything else will just barely clip Banglar's hitbox.


Seriously? That's almost... too easy.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:59 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Seriously? That's almost... too easy.


The theme of Kamaitachi :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:08 am 


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Any thoughts on River City Girls? The art looks amazing to me, but I need to hear from my folkz here about the gameplay before I commit (Vanguard's comments about Minoria were helpful in avoiding that one, thank you).

I'm a few days late but I have to agree with kitten about The Messenger. I'm still hopeful for Cyber Shadow but I agree, it looks like it could easily get freighted down in flashy pointlessness... -_- I remember I backed Steel Assault ages ago, still hoping that one pulls through.

Right now I'm currently playing through the C-sides on Celeste. I don't think the game was ranked very highly here, but I really enjoyed the main game. Some of the C-sides do "hard" in a way I don't like at all though.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:26 am 


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blackoak wrote:
Right now I'm currently playing through the C-sides on Celeste. I don't think the game was ranked very highly here, but I really enjoyed the main game. Some of the C-sides do "hard" in a way I don't like at all though.


It's hardly been mentioned. I'd be interested in hearing more about it. It's got the same lead developer as Towerfall Ascension, yeah? That game is pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:24 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
While I can't give you a comprehensive list, I can say with some confidence that such a list would probably include Akumajou Dracula, Spartan X, Makaimura, Shinobi, Thexder, and Trojan. (Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun and Final Fight, too, if we're including belt scrollers.)

Maybe Iron Horse and Green Beret, too?


That's wonderful, just what I was looking for. Thank you!

Regarding belt scrollers, I got my bases pretty much covered; after all, it was one of the most popular genres here back in the day.

Looking a little bit into Thexder made me quickly realize "ah, so that's the blueprint from which Alisia Dragoon came to be. Great!". Not to mention the mech into airship mechanic...

Well, looks like I'll have my hands full for a while; it should be fun :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:19 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
Its enemy design is a joke - enemies in Ninja Gaiden's first stage are seriously about as threatening as endgame enemies in The Messenger.


yeah :[ it's disappointing. you know, despite what must seem like an almost relentless pessimism from me about these games, i go into just about each and every one of them hopeful and looking to have fun. i really feel like the single-biggest problem with modern gaming is the idea a 30-minute long game on a successful run is bad or lacking. thank god the peeps doing the new wild guns & tnwa didn't inflate the stages. imagine releasing something in the modern climate and actually *cutting* stages on certain difficulties just to keep it taut like wild guns reloaded did! devs from older eras were really right in their thinking to work within restraints.

- - - - -

re: celeste... i've not played it - yet another game on the "waiting for it to be shipped by the limited physical distributor i bought it from" situation. i'm not expecting a lot, though. the game is done by the guy who did the classic "jumper" series of indie games, which was a huge influence on games like n/n+ and super meat boy and many other indie platformers of the era (ogmo, the character from jumper, is a playable character in super meat boy). that whole school of indie platforming design kinda relies a little too much on trial & error and memorizing routines than it does cleverness and quick play, and the additional jump mechanic in celeste looks a lot like what had a problem with in the messenger's moveset.

i feel like super meat boy was really smart to not have a double jump in it and instead have all sorts of super interesting ways to manipulate inertia without it feeling like it overtly dominated the game (e.g. n+). you never had to memorize available moves, you just had to acclimate to all the nuances of speed & movement and then learn to execute them. celeste not recharging your double-jump boost until you touch the ground (in most circumstances) is a weird & unintuitive restriction that i think bends the player into memorizing a routine versus organically developing their skills, and there doesn't seem to really be any sort of interesting nuance to the movement. i'm sure i'll have some fun throwing myself at the game, but i'm just a little tired of that type of indie platformer.

slime-san is a game kind of between smb & celeste that i meant to give more time to, but ended up put off a little by its visuals making it hard for me to look at it for very long.

blackoak wrote:
Any thoughts on River City Girls?


haven't played, but it's wayforward- i don't trust it a damn bit. i imagine it's going to be like scott pilgrim vs the world - lots of attractive sprite art, but really insubstantial, boring combat and an rpg system that sabotages everything. enemies in the videos look like they kinda just stand there and take it and the sound effects are really irritating - the IGN first 15 minutes doesn't even get past the first boss, too (despite the player's comical ineptitude at the game, that's still ridiculous). if someone on here like skye (who knows their beat 'em ups pretty well) says it's worth a shot i'll maybe change my tune and give it a go, but meh. passed on the physical pre-order because i've spent too much on that developer and been burned too many times, as is.

what was that beat 'em up that mischief maker likes? fight'n rage? i wasn't feeling that one when i looked it up but it frankly looks way better.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:55 pm 


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bottino wrote:
So folks, help me out here: in your opinion, what side scrollers would you consider to be the most important and influential ones that, in one or many ways, laid the foundations of the genre?


I'd add Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros. 3, Contra, Mega Man 2, Bubble Bobble, and Metroid to your list.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:06 pm 


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See, as badly as I wanted to put Metroid, I was hesitant to claim that it did anything more than what games like Thexder, Dragon Slayer, Dragon Buster, and Major Havoc did before it.

On the other hand, Metroid most likely had more reach than any of those games...
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:24 pm 



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The existence of River City Girls prompted me to play though some of the newer Kunio games I hadn't gotten to yet.

Downtown Nekketsu Koshinkyoku ~All Star Special~ / River City Super Sports Challenge ~All Stars Special~

A remake of the Famicom game Bil talked about in these posts. This release, like all those I'm going to talk about, keeps dot art for character graphics and uses polygons for stages.

The guys at Arc have an obvious affection for the source material. There's a high level of polish, with well-done homage sprites and animated menu backdrops. Singleplayer has lengthy skippable story scenes between each match. The roster of the original version is expanded to include characters from all across the series, and a database profiles every one of them. Are you in a crisis and need to know the blood type of the blonde team captain from the Super Famicom baseball game? ASS got you covered.

Image

Unfortunately, the game isn't something I can recommend. There are four different programs...
* Cross Country is a footrace. Since it's divided into rooms instead of being a continuous course, points are awarded on a room-by-room basis in order of exit.
* Obstacle Relay is another footrace, with different rooms and points also awarded for damaging other runners.
* Camphor Ball consists of climbing a pole and punching a ball.
* Battle Royal is a 4-man free-for-all. As points are gained in proportion to damage done, the last one standing isn't necessarily the winner.

As a multiplayer experience, the one match I played was fun enough, but it doesn't have longevity. Each room in the footraces has a very clear optimal route, and a rigid memorization-based paradigm is exactly what you don't want in a party game. Camphor Ball is just lame, and Battle Royal is soon made obsolete.

As a singleplayer experience, it's infuriating. The three AIs effectively form a unified force, since if any one of them outscores you, game over. This is most egregious in Camphor Ball as one AI climbs the pole and keeps scoring while the other two are in fight mode and keep you from it. You can end up hundreds of points in the hole in from this one program (so do the other two AIs, but they don't care).

Even if you came out on top in all programs, you might see your victory evaporate in the bonus scoring. The MC hands out additional point awards in an overlong sequence based on nebulous criteria. What earns you the Reiho Award? I don't know, but it's worth a ton of points and one of the AIs just got it. Do the whole match over.

There's also design schizophrenia concerning your player character. At the start you create an Avatar with meager stats to be the protagonist, though you also play as the other Nekketsu High students at will. You get a hefty point penalty for each student you keep benched an entire match, so it makes sense to give them all some play, right? But doing so is digging yourself a hole, since your Avatar's stats only increase if you pick him for a program and win first place using him, and later in the game there are sequences where you must use your Avatar. If you haven't been leveling him constantly, these are unwinnable.

So yeah, neat idea, disastrous result.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:36 pm 


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I love the original Famicom version of Nekketsu Koushinkyoku (and the PC Engine port is pretty good), but I couldn't get into the PS3 remake. It felt too slow to me and the 3D-style backgrounds clashes with the reuse Famicom sprites.

ASW has never developed any of their Kunio games in-house as far as I know. They're simply an IP holder. Same deal with Million, who were sometime incorrectly credited for developed the GBA Kunio and Double Dragon games.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:42 pm 



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Downtown Ranto Koshinkyoku: Kachinuki Kakuto SP / River City Melee: Battle Royal SP

This is why ASS's Battle Royal isn't worth going into: they hacked it out and made it a standalone game. The end result somehow ends up being stronger.

There are 150 playable characters organized into teams of six. Each character has their own stats and up to three special moves. They aren't motion-based, and may consist of punch while landing (e.g. the classic Hyper Uppercut) or simply attack while holding a wooden sword. Some characters are much stronger than others. I suppose the idea is that the team as a whole balances out, though that's not necessarily the result.

Quality-of-life improvements over ASS's Battle Royal include actually showing what the characters' stats and specials are. ASS had you refer to a separate manual. There are now some common attacks that can be done to opponents who've been knocked down, and some new stages were added.

Singleplayer works like the arcade mode of your typical fighting game, with team-specific opening and ending scenes. These are very self-referential and probably impenetrable to most players. Riki's PO'd at the Tiger Twins over them jumping him in the ending of Nekketsu Fighting Legend. Much is made of Miho's travel expenses, which makes no sense unless you've played Shodai Kunio and know she's from Osaka. The mystery mastermind turns out to be the final boss from that Game Boy game that got turned into a Double Dragon during localization (aside: what badass final stage music it has). Jimmy Lee starts frothing at the mouth when he hears William is competing, then Billy goes, "nah, bro, you're thinking of that punk Williams."

Speaking of Nekketsu Fighting Legend / Kakuto Densetsu, there's a natural comparison to be made to that Famicom game. It's also a four-man arena fighter, albeit strictly 2-on-2. Battle Royal SP has more special moves - 67 instead of 10 - but everyone has the same normal attacks, while Fighting Legend characters had one of four different styles. BR SP is floatier, too. We all know how good old-school Technos was at selling impacts.

Still, I had fun with BR SP, and if you like arena fighters and the Kunio characters, you might too.

Next time: Tokyo Rumble and Rival Showdown
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:08 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
See, as badly as I wanted to put Metroid, I was hesitant to claim that it did anything more than what games like Thexder, Dragon Slayer, Dragon Buster, and Major Havoc did before it.

On the other hand, Metroid most likely had more reach than any of those games...


Yeah, I'd say a game can be influential even without being the first to do anything. I have no idea what started the metroidvania/search action genre, but Metroid was a popular early entry that influenced tons of players and while I couldn't name names, I'm sure it influenced lots of other games. If nothing else it led to Super Metroid which influenced all kinds of things.

Donkey Kong is definitely worth mentioning too.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:23 am 


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pac-land was pretty surprisingly influential as far as side-scrollers go and predates super mario brothers. didn't make an impact in the west, but neither did tower of druaga or xevious - namco kind of has the short end of the stick over here on a lot of things as far as historical reputation on stuff they were quite a big part of.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:37 am 


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Regarding what Vanguard said :

Agreed, I think there's merit to acknowledging the different stages of influence, or stages of "concept congealing", of a style.

I'll throw in a punk rock reference for good measure:
The moment where the aesthetic and sound and philosophy all finally congealed together to form a CLEAR PACKAGE, to finally birth it's identity to punk rock, the this-is-a-new-genre "HA!" moment, is on the Ramones self-titled debut. Yet there's also obviously merit in talking about the various stepping stones : from Little Richards/Howlin' Wolf/Chuck Berry, to the Sonics, to the Velvet Underground, to MC5, to the Stooges, to the New York Dolls and Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers, etc.

BUT : I believe there's also merit in talking about a few echelons up early in the evolution(as well as a few split points). in this example : how the Buzzcocks brought the genre towards pop-inflected mania, how Discharge took the genre to heavy-doomy d-beat caverns, how Joy Division took it to a robotic neurosis, how Motörhead melded it with heavy metal, etc.


Last edited by FinalBaton on Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:51 am 


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Great posts, Mortificator. :smile:

FinalBaton wrote:
Regarding what Vanguard said :

I think there's merit to acknowledging the different stages of influence, or stages of "concept congealing", of a style.

I'll throw in a punk rock reference for good measure:
The moment where the aesthetic and sound and philosophy all finally congealed together to form a CLEAR PACKAGE, to birth it's identity to punk rock, is on the Ramones self-titled debut. But you can just as well talk about the various stepping stones : from Little Richards/Howlin' Wolf/Chuck Berry, to the Sonics, to the Velvet Underground, to MC5, to the Stooges, to the New York Dolls and Johnny Thunders & the Heartbreakers, etc.

And then there's also merit in talking about a few echelons up early in the evolution(as well as a few split points), IMO. in this example : how the Buzzcocks brought the genre towards pop-inflected mania, how Discharge took the genre to heavy-doomy d-beat caverns, how Joy Division took it to a robotic neurosis, etc.


Huh? :o Dude I think you're mistaken, The Sex Pistols started punk. Image

I'M KIDDING BATON, PUT DOWN THAT HOCKEY STICK :shock: :lol:

I'd chuck in The Saints from Ozzieland too - I'm Stranded was a big influencer contemporaneous with The Ramones' debut, AFAIK... great single+LP either way.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:53 am 


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the Pistols...

...

...

IMMA KILL YOU RIGHT THEN AND RIGHT THERE' BIL!!!! :x

Oh wait you just said you were kidding. nevermind :o I'll put down the hockey stick



Having laid down my frame of reference :

I think it's safe to say that Super Mario Bros. is the Ramones S/T for the genre :mrgreen:

huge (jaw dropping)collection of stitched together screens for the time, smooth as a duck's ass scrolling and tight controls (that would end up being refined a bit, granted) and definitely COMBAT! yeah, look at dem fireballs, and stars, and Mario's BUTT now that's the deadliest of them all weapuns :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:54 am 


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This is a really useful analogy. :mrgreen:

Regarding the "primordial stage" pre-SMB1, I was thinking to mention Pac-Land, too. The game doesn't mean much to me personally - never encountered it BITD and have only briefly dabbled in the Namco Museum port - but I've always seen it referenced in both Western and JP media as a scrolling action grandee.

RE the very loose subgenre of "combat sidescrolling" ala Castlevania - I'm even less familiar with Dragon Buster (1984), but I seem to recall that being regarded similarly to Pac-Land, with regards to its swordplay.

(also, WHOA ITS BEAUTIFUL @ Dragon Buster's arcade flyers Image)

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


(click for full res)

blackoak recently posted some excellent Castlevania material which gives some rare insights of Akamatsu's design philosophies. It's a shame he's such an elusive figure - I'd love to know what he was into, particularly how conscious he was of Makaimura (1985), the earliest scrolling action game I can think of to share CV1's deadly emphases.

Rygar (1986) was probably a bit late to have influenced CV1, but it's impossible to play that and not feel some resemblance in its chain weapon... though the use of hop/bop is straight outta Mario. Except in this more avowedly murderous context I term it THE DARKNESS BOP Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:48 am 


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BIL wrote:

blackoak recently posted some excellent Castlevania material which gives some rare insights of Akamatsu's design philosophies. It's a shame he's such an elusive figure - I'd love to know what he was into, particularly how conscious he was of Makaimura (1985), the earliest scrolling action game I can think of to share CV1's deadly emphases.

Rygar (1986) was probably a bit late to have influenced CV1, but it's impossible to play that and not feel some resemblance in its chain weapon... though the use of hop/bop is straight outta Mario. Except in this more avowedly murderous context I term it THE DARKNESS BOP Image


I have a strong suspicion that the Konami arcade game Mikie might had designed by Akamatsu too, since he casually mentions the plot of the game in the Goonies 2 interview he did for some Konami-published magazine.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:39 pm 


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there's a pretty solid episode of gccx on the famicom port of dragon buster that i suggest watching, bil. though, frankly, i suppose i would recommend the gccx episode of anything. there's been a dearth of translated episode the last couple of years, i'm still fucking dying for them to translate saru get you/ape escape, which is one of my all-time favorite games. episodes of gun-dec, marchen maze, super contra, vazolder, moguranya... all sitting untranslated. someone pls, i beg you - in these dark times, i need arino's smiling face.

i've actually really wanted to play dragon buster, but just lacked the motivation to get around to picking up a cart and playing it. namco affection really started to hit me as i got into the pc engine library, and it's grown as a game as i feel more and more weird about not having played given my growing affinity for them and my love for the fc, in general. i think i've got it on one of those ps1 compilations, but a playstation disc is not a Shiny Gold Cartridge.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:12 pm 


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The PC Engine is such a good lil console.

Recently I went though Ninja Ryukendan II again, still so good. As well as Totsuzen Machoman. It was um, yeah not as good. I think 5/10 material. Worth a play but not something I see myself going back to again and again like Castlevania, Contra etc...

I thought Vazolder looked familiar. Released as Wurm in the US. Ugh...one of those cases where the Famicom version is actually much more than the NES cart. I can see why but...I can't pay 10x as much.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:28 pm 


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kitten wrote:
there's a pretty solid episode of gccx on the famicom port of dragon buster that i suggest watching, bil. though, frankly, i suppose i would recommend the gccx episode of anything. there's been a dearth of translated episode the last couple of years, i'm still fucking dying for them to translate saru get you/ape escape, which is one of my all-time favorite games. episodes of gun-dec, marchen maze, super contra, vazolder, moguranya... all sitting untranslated. someone pls, i beg you - in these dark times, i need arino's smiling face.


Gun-Dec's translated, and Super Contra got translated a little while ago. Got me to finally play through the game myself.

Dragon Buster really isn't that good of a game, tho...
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:43 pm 


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Never realized how much Rastan must have been influenced by Dragon Buster. The vine-climbing, the gem and potion items, the dynamic music — it's all there.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:47 pm 


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kitten wrote:
pac-land was pretty surprisingly influential as far as side-scrollers go and predates super mario brothers. didn't make an impact in the west, but neither did tower of druaga or xevious - namco kind of has the short end of the stick over here on a lot of things as far as historical reputation on stuff they were quite a big part of.


I might had mentioned this before, but it's pretty telling when you compare the original version of the Namco Museum compilations versus the later versions on other platforms that were outsourced to western developers. In the PS1 versions, you had a lot of games that were pretty popular in Japan and some games there were never even released in the west before like Genpei Tōmaden and Walküre no Densetsu, and there was even a Japanese-exclusive sixth volume with Wondermomo. But when you get to the N64 and Dreamcast versions of the Namco Museums, it's all just your usual Pac-Man and Galaga ports. They even bother to reissue the PS1 Namco Museums as part of the Greatest Hits series, except for the ones that had Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man on them (Vol. 1 and 3).

Ghegs wrote:
Dragon Buster really isn't that good of a game, tho...

The Famicom version is really different from I've seen online.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:52 pm 


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I find it interesting that Namco Museum v.2 US replaced the paddle games with Super Pac-Man, but didn't use the Galaga 3 version of Gaplus.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:55 pm 


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The paddle game required some peripheral that was only released in Japan if I recall correctly. I'm more surprised Ms. Pac-Man was even in the compilation, since it was never a real Namco game, but I'm guessing they realized that they needed more games that appeal to westerners somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:18 pm 


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Ghegs wrote:
Gun-Dec's translated, and Super Contra got translated a little while ago. Got me to finally play through the game myself.


Image i got some catching up to do

Jonny2x4 wrote:
The paddle game required some peripheral that was only released in Japan if I recall correctly. I'm more surprised Ms. Pac-Man was even in the compilation, since it was never a real Namco game, but I'm guessing they realized that they needed more games that appeal to westerners somehow.


i think the peripheral was released separately in a few different colors, but a special version of it came with an alternate version of volume 2 you could get. iirc i took pictures when i got it, but i forget if i put them here. came with that little controller, some cool little fold-outs of several games, i think a couple of other things.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:43 am 


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got a nomiss clear on legend of hero tonma. i quite like this game! really no-nonsense and fast blastin'. it's way, way easier than a first impression might give and is a frankly really breezy 1cc once you've put in just a couple of hours, imho. i must have done *literally* a dozen runs with only one or two deaths before this nomiss, though - feels like a capricious death would tag me each time. i think this one is more fun when you take your lickings and keep ticking than resetting on a single death.

i could probably trim my play up a little bit - there's a jump or two i miss the first tiime and a few corners i could cut - but it's already such a short game that i'm quite happy with my ability. good game! kinda has me itching to do recordings of mr. heli no daibouken and ninja spirit.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:30 am 


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PCE Tonma is superb - looks cutesy from a distance, but despite the hop/bop it is a game of BUST SHOT Image Gets an "R-9 on foot" feel when you're fully kitted out. Good job on the no-miss, as you say it's a game where death peskily nips at your heels!

I'd say Ninja Spirit's AC mode is considerably tougher to no-miss, mostly on account of that fucking ninja pit. Good of them to add an easy route (foot of that post), but if you don't know about it, the tighter camera and lack of BG markers make it even fucking worse. Should've junked/redone the wretched thing altogether. But stages 6 and 7 do have other, more honourable dangers, albeit not to the bitter extremes of the arcade game. I think the notable lull of st5 is actually nastier on PCE, thanks to the smaller playfield - the gas traps can't be scouted so easily. Then again, the removal of the arcade's time limit equalises things, somewhat.

---

Related, having spent all weekend on Hamster's PS4 Ninja Spirit, I can report no input issues, screen tearing or other cheapo emulation badness. Even when replicating the PCB's most titanic slowdowns, not a single button was dropped. Audio is bang-on, config options are simple but effective - seems like damn good work overall, I wonder who the developer was. Recommended!

Huge thanks to Vludi & Vanguard, whose runs and notes helped me get the arcade pit down after a solid decade of procrastination. Vludi, your stat bar method is gold! Ta buds. I'm gonna put some notes up too when I'm through. The way the game snaps right back to expertly-judged wuxia action after the worst twenty seconds in scrolling action... makes the bed-shitting lapse seem even worse tbh. :lol:

---

For now, here's my rendition of the checkpoint recovery route. Slowdown is different compared to full power, so it won't be as useful in a no-miss. It's a start, though, and might save a 1CC. I'm a bit too depressed at this shitshow to comment much - this is a healthy and normal reaction to the pit - except to say that by the end of Sunday afternoon's session, I was affording names to various important ninjas and rock formations in my neurasthenic funk. Shoutout to my boys Delroy and John-John, when I see you cats I know I'm home free, much love to Lazies Crew for puttin' me up early on also. Image

Spoiler: show
Image


^ See the "eyes" of the derpy rock dragons? They're useful!

^ That double rock formation will let you know when to bail from the wall after the First Four in Phase 1. You wanna pre-load momentum with a few taps - wait until entering the formation to move and that wall soldier's gonna clip your ass.

^ Keeping over the "gap" formed by the Kusarigama icon's blade and tail as Phase 2 starts is the deadliest bit. Graze the nose of D'latarius the lone dragon souljah to avoid a rightmost killer, then precognitively pass over the eye of CHZ-CHZA who's rolling with his partnah Harold to slip another to the left. Deliverance is at hand!

^ The two ninjas that come rocketing up in single-file as the second note of the dirge hits, which you can't hear because this is a GIF - get on their lane after and chill.

Oh god. Why'd they do this. It's one of the great mysteries of hardcore scrolling... I'd love to know just what in the fuck. Yeah I know, CREAM get the money, etc, but was it really that brazen? Oh well. Will make a properly annotated video next weekend, probably!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:31 pm 


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BIL wrote:
PCE Tonma is superb - looks cutesy from a distance, but despite the hop/bop it is a game of BUST SHOT Image Gets an "R-9 on foot" feel when you're fully kitted out. Good job on the no-miss, as you say it's a game where death peskily nips at your heels!


r-9 on foot, complete with stage you pick up the wall-tracing power-up and immediately want something else back. Image

my first instinct was to call this game cheap during my initial half-hour with it (you absolutely suffer some embarrassing deaths, at first), but aside from some really minor memorization (a decent run is only 10 minutes, after all), it's easy to remember not to make stupid mistakes and get your route down. that really furthers the feeling of it being like an irem shooter. i'd very highly recommend this to someone big on run 'n guns looking to tackle r-type as an intermediary game to play before r-type. or, honestly, recommend r-type to someone who just cleared this if they hadn't played it.

the two parts that i'd warn a player about who is trying to get their run pared down:

in stage 3, there's a tunnel right before the boss where a bunch of those lickers show up. you see me playing even more cautious than necessary here because if you backtrack a certain distance to adjust your shot, it spawns a licker behind you - you won't even see it if you only move forward. it's possible to hit one of the ones near the end, back up, and then get caught between them in such a way you you get sandwiched and killed. if you're on multiple plays in a row and playing a bit fast & loose, that trap can really get you.

in stage 5, there's a part where you can see me hesitate a bit before dropping down. if you handle this part with efficient speed and drop down the second you possibly can, you do so right into a volley of that little flying enemy's bullet spread that happens if it stays on the screen too long. one will have spawned beneath you while you were grabbing the scroll, and while you can drop down and survive, it will most often catch you off-guard and even a carefully deployed float won't save you from the chaos down there. i'd also strongly recommend getting both bomb power-ups in that stage - the first is right after that part and the second is in the bottom of the room where bugs pop out of boxes. makes the boss a piece of cake if you aim the bombs on her head, she'll barely start her second cycle.

aside from that, i feel like anything else is obvious in just watching the video. the stage 4 shortcut route i take is reliable so long as you nail it, btw - a stray bullet will never get you if you're moving fast enough, but fudging it at all will often get you swiftly punished.

Quote:
I'd say Ninja Spirit's AC mode is considerably tougher to no-miss, mostly on account of that fucking ninja pit. Good of them to add an easy route (foot of that post), but if you don't know about it, the tighter camera and lack of BG markers make it even fucking worse.


thanks for bringing up this post! i knew from some ancient gamefaqs guide that "one dude length from the left" is the safe spot, but a gif demonstration of how to hit that most reliably will definitely prove useful while i play. this was one of the original games to actually make me realize the pc engine had stuff to offer that i had no idea about... 12 years ago, when it initially hit the virtual console. it's weird to think how nostalgic it was for me to pick the hucard up considering i'd only played it digitally, but more than a decade was definitely time to develop such a feeling.

i remember when i first joined here, i very lightly trash-talked the console by saying it still didn't have that many superb games, but i've watched it become second only to the famicom, to me. even though i feel it does kind of pale in comparison to the sfc in terms of sheer number of 4/4 star games, its library has such jarringly consistent quality and i adore its general design sensibilities. never been happier to eat my words.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:23 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
I'd add Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros. 3, Contra, Mega Man 2, Bubble Bobble, and Metroid to your list.


Thanks! Metroid has definitely been on my radar for awhile, since I'm big fan of it's Super incarnation; I just need to be in the right mindset and have enough time to make some maps for it.

I'm actually reasonable acquainted with the Marios and (especially) Contra; Bubble Bobble and Mega Man 2 less so - the first mostly through the good Master System version and the latter (as well the first and third games) through the Wily Wars cartridge for the Mega Drive (not the best way to experience these games, I know; it had everything to a great package, but of course Capcom had to ruin it...), so I'm definitely interested in checking out their original versions, even though I'm not that really into the Mega Man series.

Who knows? Maybe a fresh experience with a different mindset will change my mind about it.


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