shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:00 pm View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7858 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 2894
Location: Portugal
Thanks for the gold post, Perikles. Discovered and re-discovered quite a few gems, the rest is the usual good stuff on the console.
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:48 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 4700
Location: Denmarku
I'm a Sakimoto fan, but I kinda dig the Psykosonik soundtrack. It's more memorable for sure.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 3452
Location: the black gate
It's a really good list. The vast majority of it is in line with my own experiences; Final Fight 2, I distinctly remember the first Natsume Kiki Kaikai being more engaging when I played it forever ago, how the Rockman X games compare to each other, etc. Psycho Dream in particular, I don't know why it has the respect it does; it is absolutely the kind of game that would get constant firing squads in a different timeline. Hook also seemed amazingly jank compared to Karura Ou... was this really a popular game in its day? Return of Double Dragon is also not really that great, but the dev hell surrounding that game compels me to give it special treatment.

A few things bug me though.

Perikles wrote:
P.S.: I hate Rockman & Forte.

Oh, my heart.

Anyway! Here's the big one. Spriggan Powered is absolutely not as stated, it's actually really nice and deserves more love. It is not merely a great idea (arguably the first game to have grazing), but it's executed surprisingly well for such a mysterious out of nowhere game (grazing actually works even if it's not super in-depth). To the best of my knowledge, it can be played for score properly. If it isn't, I'll be kinda disappointed, but even Thunder Force IV cannot really be played for score, you know? I'm also pretty sure it's not Micronics. It's absolutely nothing like Raiden Densetsu and Acrobat Mission, the only SNES games actually known to be their work. Turns out there's a mysterious company called Khaos that has ties to Micronics, and they did things like Sonic Wings SNES which is also nothing like Raiden Densetsu SNES or Acrobat Mission SNES, really...

But here's the crazy thing. The programmer of Sonic Wings SNES and Spriggan Powered is apparently also credited in Sonic Wings arcade. Not only that, but he was apparently also responsible for NES Makaimura, the only one of those NES Micronics ports anyone likes (and arguably the only good one). So this Kazuo Yagi guy seems interesting enough, especially since he seems to have snuck around the industry ever since. Places like Wikipedia claim he was responsible for most Micronics stuff, but I find that hard to believe. Instead, he seems to be responsible for the strange later games most people don't even know are credited to Micronics. Bloody Warriors, for example, that's an interesting little game. Apparently even F1 Circus MD, a pretty solid port of the second F1 Circus, is a Micronics game? Also apparently they did that wacky Thundercade in addition to helping with Sonic Wings. The narrative even seems to be that the earlier NES stuff is not Micronics at all and is some weird earlier company, kinda like Orca and Crux for Toaplan. These guys are interesting... I need to know more. More!

So, all that aside... the first Power Rangers is also pretty solid, if simple. There are a lot of times where I would put it over The Movie. The Movie's plane-switching doesn't seem to work as right as the developers probably envisioned, and I have certain concerns about physics making it a little more frustrating than it should be. Also, somehow the game is even longer than the first game, because we totally needed that.

The first Super Turrican, unfortunately, can only frustrate me forever. Super Turrican was meant to mirror Mega Turrican (the real Turrican 3) to the point that it had the same boss designs and same "five giant multi-part stages" gameflow. Problem is, the final stage of Super Turrican never actually happened. It wasn't even rushed either, apparently their publisher was unwilling to buy a big enough cart for it. Director's Cut only has bits of this stage left, and is actually a prototype with some bugs that had been fixed in the original final SNES version, after they were told they couldn't do the final stage anymore. Metal Slug 5 having a somewhat lesser final boss fight clearly pales in comparison to this.

I'm also gonna have to single out Ghost Chaser Densei. It's a not-great port of Denjinmakai, which is actually a fantastic game. Sorry. It's really not that great. I'd only recommend it to people actually familiar with the original game who want to see the port job. The engine is mostly there and the sound is definitely better, but so much else of the game was cut out that it's hard to have fun with what's left. For what it's worth, I also consider Denjinmakai to be better than the sequel simply on the grounds of the first game being more smoothed out. Guardians was quite clearly unfinished and it constantly struggles to hang on from falling apart completely. Poor Winkysoft, getting drafted into doing Super Robot Taisen games forever...

I'm not really going to make a comment on 46 Okunen Monogatari as I'm unsure on it. However, all accounts suggest that the first game (the SNES game is a followup to a PC game) is more interesting mostly because it goes into way more detail about the setting and has a lot of reading material, almost like an edutainment game. It's... also a turn-based RPG.
_________________
In 1989,The Great Wall was discoverd
In 1990,The Picket Fence was also discoverd


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:50 am 



Joined: 23 Feb 2016
Posts: 390
Location: Chile
Ghost Chaser Densei is more like Denjimakai 1.5 than a straightforward port, it's true that it removes quite a bit of content (characters/level) but it also adds a bunch of cool new mechanics and different enemy placement/attacks/animation that make it worthwhile playing. I think I still like the arcade better but mostly for the better presentation and more mayhem rather than it being a super refined game. Just wish someone did a hack to make it look closer than the arcade, certainly more deserving than this turd https://youtu.be/V1hV_riVfpA
And I agree about Power Rangers and Spriggan Powered being enjoyable even if not top tier.
_________________
1cc list | Replays


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 1439
Location: Germany
Thanks a lot for all the kind words, guys! I shall add games whenever I do find something else. I would like to actually clear Zombies Ate My Neighbors in the near future if possible...

I've made a handful of additions to the list regarding substantial regional differences. I don't point out comparatively minor things like a couple of changed graphical assets in the Castlevania games or Final Fight 1 & 2, but I've mentioned important alterations such as with Kidou Soukou Dion -> Imperium, Sonic Wings -> Aero Fighter, the versions of Super E.D.F. and such.

trap15 wrote:
Damn, you don't like the Sword Maniac soundtrack? It is probably the weakest Hitoshi Sakimoto soundtrack I guess, but certainly better than the crap Activision threw in lol.

My reasoning is twofold: one is frank, blatant habituation, or nostalgia. X-Kaliber 2097 is actually one of those games I've owned back in the day, and we used to play it quite a bit. The western soundtrack is deeply ingrained in me now, and I was honestly a trifle shocked when I found about the changes they've made, I would've been willing to bet anything this was the music they always envisioned for the game. As such, I'm not even sure if I can be remotely impartial with my second argument: I find the SFC soundtrack to be completely jarring. For me, the X-Kaliber soundtrack succeeds on two levels: it helps to set the grim, bleak atmosphere perfectly whilst also being ever so slightly on the corny side of things. Which symbolizes the game perfectly: you control a tough cape-clad duelist, cleanly slashing androids in half, that's gotta be amazing, right? And then you get hit the first time and realize just how comically bad the knockback is. On the contrary, I don't even know how e.g. this track is supposed to fit the ultimate stage at all.


I also appreciate the objections when it comes to Spriggan Powered, there was actually someone else who likewise enjoyed it quite a bit more than I do and made that remark. I will concede that to my knowledge, it is indeed not broken when it comes to scoring (although I haven't tested it extensively) and it is the hardest 1-ALL/regular shmup clear together with Acrobat Mission and Star Soldier (which is of course basically the original Famicom version) on the system, so it will pose a considerable challenge. I strongly doubt that trying to score exceptionally well is a realistic option at all, though, because you absolutely have to constantly use the invincibility shield (which negates the grazing aspect entirely) just to make it past tougher sections. Which is additionally rather irritating design in general: there are quite a few patterns latter on you cannot dodge at all without this tool, which is not far from just having a life bar to tank hits. But if in doubt, give the game a whirl for yourself, of course!

It's possible I'm just mean towards the regular Power Rangers because I lost an entire run to that stupid fighting game final boss. Getting there with all three lives only to see a game over after one botched attempt is nasty.

Can't compare Ghost Chaser Densei to its source material, I have next to no experience with actual arcade brawlers. As far as the SFC - or consoles of that era, really - is concerned, however, you're not going to find anything that is as complex and involved, it's fantastic what sort of stunts you can pull off. And you even have four enemies (instead of the regular three) on-screen without any technical issues whatsoever, I find that extremely impressive. True, the visuals aren't stellar, some of the music is still excellent on the other hand.
_________________
ImageImage
Path to Ascendancy (1CCs) | Götzendämmerung (YT)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:58 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 4700
Location: Denmarku
X-Kaliber 2097 is just a perfect representation of the edgy 90s, and what's better to go with that than this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJklwXwRjmU


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:26 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 2894
Location: Portugal
Perikles, seeing as your post has much more than sidescrollers, how about copy/pasteing it on the SNES/SFC topic, too? Lord knows it needs some more quality posting too:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43733
_________________
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote:
I'll make sure I'll download it illegally one day...


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:17 pm 



Joined: 30 Oct 2018
Posts: 26
Wow so many games posted in the past week or so, spoiled.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:17 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 1439
Location: Germany
A few additions on the list/general remarks:

- I managed to clear Captain Commando by a gnat's whisker and subsequently "promoted" it to the dissuasion list. Aside from the expectable audiovisual setbacks (with the exception of Enemy's Spaceship, I do love this particular rendition of it), it's baffling just how poorly it is put together. Starting with the fact that you attack incredibly slow in this version, which makes using regular jabs outside of the first few stages a veritable hazard. You might hit an enemy and get him in hitstun only for his buddy to walk right through (!) your attack and get a combo of his own. They didn't even change the extend parameters like in Final Fight, you have to make it through the game with a couple of lives if you aim for a 1CC, just like the arcade version. Had I not the most fortunate serendipity which allowed me to get a few bosses in endless loops, I never would've cleared it, and it was a really hard game even with that discovery.

- Added a few words on the first Sonic Blast Man. Having to spin the d-pad with breakneck speed to earn extends is most certainly worth to be explicitly mentioned.

- I'm not going to write it down in the main post, nonetheless a first impression on Ganbare Goemon 2: absolutely love the platforming (albeit not quite as much as the first game from the parts I've seen so far, even though the presentation is stunning), hate the giant robot battles in first-person view. Got stuck on the second one and just gave up, it's a perfect storm of awkward controls, insufficiently telegraphed attacks which probably require memorization to get through and tanking damage/trading blows no matter what. Completely stopped my momentum.



Furthermore got enough 1CC pictures/used a few less spectacular ones to add another column (on the right) for the collage (and one shouldn't click on it if he doesn't want to be spoiled, indeed :P):
Spoiler: show
Image

Most of them should be very simple to guess, here is the resolution in any case (from top to bottom):
Spoiler: show
1. Final Fight 2
2. HyperZone
3. The Pirates of Dark Water
4. Star Force
5. Captain Commando
6. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (IV): Turtles in Time
7. StarFox
8. Cosmo Police Galivan II: Arrow of Justice (many thanks to andsuchisdeath for sharing his knowledge regarding the special attack, it's much appreciated!)
9. Final Fight
10. Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers - The Movie


soprano1 wrote:
Perikles, seeing as your post has much more than sidescrollers, how about copy/pasteing it on the SNES/SFC topic, too?

Considering how many superb RPGs there are on the system and how few of them I've played through, I feel like it'd be missing out on integral parts to appear in that particular context, at least for the nonce. And let's not even mention all those genres that basically consist of "hic sunt leones" for me. The list is here and won't go away, as such, there is no hurry, I'd say. :)


To end this post on a despondent note: Vludi was kind enough to give me a lot of instructive words of advice for Undercover Cops, I'm still not making much progress whatsoever, though. What a brutal game. :shock:
_________________
ImageImage
Path to Ascendancy (1CCs) | Götzendämmerung (YT)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:00 am 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 3118
Location: Villa Straylight
Someone took on Snoman gaming's "bad design: nes games" with a rebuttal video.

It's ait. Doesn't hit hard enough if you ask me, but yeah.
https://youtu.be/7R4t4NLsKgg
_________________
ImageImage
1cc List - Youtube - You emptylock my heart


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:27 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Jul 2005
Posts: 1148
Location: Louisiana
Blinge wrote:
Someone took on Snoman gaming's "bad design: nes games" with a rebuttal video.

It's ait. Doesn't hit hard enough if you ask me, but yeah.
https://youtu.be/7R4t4NLsKgg

I posted a reply on that video, and some guy tells me newer games have better design and fairer challenge that makes you feel you earned your victory. Nah, beating an NES game that is considered tough always felt more rewarding to me because I had to use my own skill to beat the game, not having my hand held.
_________________
https://www.dropbox.com/s/merftyc86w4pt ... n.txt?dl=0 My game collection so far


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:09 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 4700
Location: Denmarku
Didn't you hear? Lives in video games is fake difficulty


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2116
Location: Wigan, England.
Well, I sprang for the PS4 CV comp in order to finally play Rondo. When something has been this highly-praised for such a long time, I tend to temper my expectations as best I can, but as of yet I'm presently surprised. Quite why XX ended up so slothful is beyond me after playing its inspiration. It's a funny-looking thing though, veers between looking like a NES game with larger sprites and more colour, to almost SNES levels of quality. Soundtrack is killer, almost worth the price of entry alone. Managed up to the end of the third level, which included my most embarrassing death in any game for quite a while. End of ST2-1 blue axe-guy, so used to cheesing them from above or underneath that I actually didn't realise that you can't duck under his high axes and I got myself stunlocked and lost a full bar. Lost the second life on the Werewolf boss, then got clobbered by the large skeleton and the end of ST3. All beginner stuff really. Be playing as much of this as possible this week. Might be time to flash the SNES mini and throw a select few MD games on there as well, certainly seems the only affordable way to play Bloodlines these days.
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 4700
Location: Denmarku
Marc wrote:
It's a funny-looking thing though, veers between looking like a NES game with larger sprites and more colour, to almost SNES levels of quality.

So basically, like a PC Engine game? :P


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:51 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2116
Location: Wigan, England.
Sumez wrote:
Marc wrote:
It's a funny-looking thing though, veers between looking like a NES game with larger sprites and more colour, to almost SNES levels of quality.

So basically, like a PC Engine game? :P


Touche :D
No just looks a bit weird in tone from grim to almost cartoony one area to the next, whereas at least CVIV's gloomy style, though not for all, was consistent all the way through.
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:56 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 3452
Location: the black gate
Marc wrote:
Quite why XX ended up so slothful is beyond me after playing its inspiration.

The answer is that it's not. XX is a great "arrange mode". Konami also did this with the The Hyperstone Heist and the Mega Drive Sunset Riders. Instead of simply porting them, the games were partially remade. They don't have as many "features" so they're easy targets for mindless bashing, but people are starting to come around to The Hyperstone Heist at least.

The two wildly different games called "Sparkster" are a similar case.
_________________
In 1989,The Great Wall was discoverd
In 1990,The Picket Fence was also discoverd


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:22 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 2116
Location: Wigan, England.
Oh I have no issue with XX, I've come across the CV series ass-backwards, but I can't understand why anyone that had already devoured Rondo wouldn't enjoy XX. I can't see that the injection of a little pace would harm it though.
_________________
XBL: mjparker77 / PSN: BellyFullOfHell


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:08 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Jan 2018
Posts: 328
Despatche wrote:
Marc wrote:
Quite why XX ended up so slothful is beyond me after playing its inspiration.

The answer is that it's not. XX is a great "arrange mode". Konami also did this with the The Hyperstone Heist and the Mega Drive Sunset Riders. Instead of simply porting them, the games were partially remade. They don't have as many "features" so they're easy targets for mindless bashing, but people are starting to come around to The Hyperstone Heist at least.

The two wildly different games called "Sparkster" are a similar case.


I always felt that's what they were trying to do with Metal Gear on the NES. That game's issue isn't so much the fact that they changed the level designs though, as it's the fact that the stealth is poorly balanced (there are too many instances where you caught just for entering a screen). Konami did a lot of these kind of arranged ports if you think about it.

Speaking of which, got around to clear Jackal. Got up to Loop 2 - Stage 5 in an attempt to break the score counter, but got tired by that point and lost all my lives. The game is not particularly tough until the final stage, where they start throwing in those enemy helicopters that can fly around the map freely. The final fortress/tank was always the game's toughest spot for me.

Would love to play all of the Konami stuff co-op one of these days.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2014
Posts: 1439
Location: Germany
Added a few more things on the list - nil desperandum, there is a surcease of the spamming in sight, for I intend to tackle only one more game (Undercover Cops) before moving on.

I amended The Combatribes, F-Zero and (to my own shock) Rushing Beat Ran (edit: also Kaizou Choujin Shubibinman Zero; edit number two: got Zombies Ate My Neighbors down, too! One more to go) on the list now that I cleared those. It's probably safe to mention F-Zero even as a racing game colt such as I am, it was quite the blast this time around. I'll expound my thoughts on Combatribes and Rushing Beat Ran also a bit further since it came as a striking epiphany what finally made this genre so appealing to me: there is a unique sense of discovering oddities, peculiarities and curiosities which can drastically shift the balance in the player's favour. Platformers and shmups can usually be played somewhat "normally" (that is to say a general understanding of the game and some memorization suffices), but at least to a fledgling brawler enthusiast like me, tougher brawlers may require some auxiliary support.


In the case of The Combatribes, it was a great moment of elation when I figured out a perfectly reliable strategy against the dreaded Martha Splatterhead. I refrained from tackling the game sooner in defiance of always being fond of the game since I knew what a roadblock that boss fight is. And it sure was a rough experience - she can counter about everything you do, and if you're unlucky, she just unfetters a full combo for massive damage, while you only get a handful of separated hits in. Only after thinking more carefully on why I could sometimes land hits could I figure out a consistent way, and it felt both fantastic and completely earned. I payed the blood tax, tenfold at that, and managed to progress by analytically approaching the situation. Of course, there were also some other specifics I ironed out as well, such as strong(er) strategies against the third and the fifth boss, but in this specific instance, finding the key for the infamous finale was the eureka effect.


Rushing Beat Ran on the other hand I would rather describe as a holistic process. With how the game handles the hit/grab detection, you ought to know the global inner workings. This is underlined by the fact that you have to battle against enemies under difficult conditions, such as having electric floors in your way or only being able to work with what feels like a fraction of the screen on the rooftops. While it is abundantly clear that Bild is the best character for his potent & safe tools, successfully alternating between them, executing them well and prioritizing the appropriate course of action is another matter altogether. Knowing when it is better to do a diagonal jump attack or a flame breath can be the difference betwixt keeping firm control and dying at least one ignoble death in a moment's notice, since almost every enemy in the late game can easily take away 40%+ in one fell swoop. Considering that you fight a copious amount of them in the game, your basic approach needs to be unswervingly strong.

Thus, whereas the parameters may be fraught, the procedural learning process was not. Furthermore discovering some advanced options to keep you safe (such as using the special at the right time during/after a flame breath in case you're surrended to gain a few more invincibility frames or quickly jumping with a "backward forward punch" à la Final Fight to accumulate three enemies into one spot where you can keep your ground control with flame breaths and running kicks) as well as finding specific solutions for some of the nasty set-ups in the stages was an august experience. I only lost one life in my 1CC run and even managed to get through the ridiculous third boss fight without dying (albeit that was due to quite some luck, as well) which I certainly did not expect when I constructed my 1CC route, and I will say this, too, mostly felt earned.



I'm very excited to eventually play some arcade brawlers, that shall be a grand revelation! :o
_________________
ImageImage
Path to Ascendancy (1CCs) | Götzendämmerung (YT)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 1904
Location: polar malortex, illinois
Having lurked this thread for a bit, I'm curious as to why people are so down on Rockman & Forte and MM8, R&F in particular. I've always found it to be more engaging than several of the games that games that came before it — MM1, 5, and 7 to be specific — and think it has really nicely designed subsections while presenting varied play with the two selectable characters and its competent remixes of some of the MM8 bosses. It also excels aesthetically with its soundtrack and its sprites which felt like a true evolution of the series rather than the semi-jank visual design of MM7. I honestly have as much fun with R&F as I do with MM2, 3, or 4, and more fun than I do any of the mainline or X series on the SNES. I'd love to know what people's gripes are, because maybe there's something bad about R&F that I'm just not seeing, or (more hopefully) something great about the early X games that I'm missing.
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: oh yeah it's that bat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:01 am 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Apr 2014
Posts: 166
Location: Unleashed on the infernal battlefield
Marc wrote:
but I can't understand why anyone that had already devoured Rondo wouldn't enjoy XX. I can't see that the injection of a little pace would harm it though.


My, that's a neat way of phrasing it.
A "little pace". Ha-haah! :lol: Thanks for that. That will enrich my day.
The vial of blood is half full.
(no high hat given)
_________________
There is no victory, revenge or intent, only action.

AN' YO' KNOW WHUT THET MEANS!!


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:28 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 3452
Location: the black gate
Jonny2x4 wrote:
I always felt that's what they were trying to do with Metal Gear on the NES. That game's issue isn't so much the fact that they changed the level designs though, as it's the fact that the stealth is poorly balanced (there are too many instances where you caught just for entering a screen). Konami did a lot of these kind of arranged ports if you think about it.

Well, it was more common in the days of the NES and Master System, lots of devs did that back then. Some devs made entirely unique games altogether, such as Capcom with Willow and Nemo, and Tecmo with Ninja Ryukenden. Konami was one of those devs that kept doing it even afterward. Then there's Sega, doing things like Shadow Dancer MD and ESWAT MD, which are not totally unique games like Capcom and Tecmo were doing but also not half-remakes like Konami was doing.
_________________
In 1989,The Great Wall was discoverd
In 1990,The Picket Fence was also discoverd


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Jan 2018
Posts: 328
Ninja Ryukenden was not an arcade port though. The AC and FC versions were parallel projects and the latter actually came out first in Japan. The release schedule, if I'm not mistaken went like this.

AC Ninja Gaiden (US) - Sometime in 1988
FC Ninja Ryukenden (Japan) - December 1988
AC Ninja Ryukenden (Japan) - February 1989
NES Ninja Gaiden (US) - March 1989

Same deal with Strider Hiryu. The FC version was actually announced and developed before the arcade version, but got shelved and was only given an NA release. I think it was the same case with Willow, Nemo and Tenchi o Kurau.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:49 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 541
Location: Portugal
Wasn't the original FDS Castlevania a similar case, where they developed it and the MSX2 version concurrently?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Jan 2018
Posts: 328
Indeed. They came only a month apart and the MSX2 version even features some unused items from the FCD version.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:15 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2017
Posts: 558
Location: プププランド
it290 wrote:
Having lurked this thread for a bit, I'm curious as to why people are so down on Rockman & Forte and MM8, R&F in particular.


i love 8, i strongly dislike R&F.

i go into detail about some of R&F's failings, here.
_________________
~Imagination and memory are but one thing, which for diverse considerations have diverse names~
Image | Image
~*~*~*~*~*~* If there's a place that I could be ~ Then I'd be another memory *~*~*~*~*~*~


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:44 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 1904
Location: polar malortex, illinois
kitten wrote:
i love 8, i strongly dislike R&F.

i go into detail about some of R&F's failings, here.


Hmm... I definitely get some of the criticism, like the disappearing block puzzle thing is definitely a bit of BS design, the tanky enemies as well, annoying but not particularly problematic since they're so easily dispatched. I feel like the general theme of the critique is that the game offers too much repetition with not enough challenge, and is unfair in a few places. I can't argue with that, but on the whole MM8 has some pretty lackluster sections as well (jump jump slide slide), yet the whole overcomes the sum of its parts. I guess I feel that way with R&F—it's not a perfect 'remix' game, but it does some things very well and is really impressive for the hardware.

In comparison to Dracula XX, which people seem to be giving a pass, I think R&F does an overall better job of taking the themes of the original and making them into something new. I don't have much of a beef with Dracula XX either, it is a fine game unto itself, but it does make some choices (like the aforementioned pace and the utterly contemptuous Dracula battle) that pull it down quite a bit. R&F on the other hand, seems to take the basic elements of MM8, toss them into a blender with some new stuff, and emerge with something that arguably comes close to the original (and on a significantly weaker system). At the very least I can't see why anyone would consider MM7 to be a superior game—it strikes me as so clunky and soulless by comparison.
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:31 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 4700
Location: Denmarku
I'd condense the issues of R&F down to the fact that the game completely lacks flow. There's just a lot of stopping and waiting, and generally annoying level design, rather than the fast-paced fun the series is known for. I think a big issue is what Kitten pointed out, that the sprites are way too big for the typical Mega Man gameplay. The game looks good though.
I should probably give it some tries with Forte though. I think it might be less obnoxious than playing as Rockman.

The comparison to Dracula XX is baffling to me. XX is a super good game that I'd recommend everyone playing, and while R&F is mostly weak in comparison to the rest of its series, I still don't enjoy playing it much on its own.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 6946
Location: MD
The yoku blocks pattern in Rockman and Forte looks very strange with multiple blocks coming out in a row.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:29 am 


User avatar

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 1904
Location: polar malortex, illinois
Sumez wrote:
The comparison to Dracula XX is baffling to me. XX is a super good game that I'd recommend everyone playing, and while R&F is mostly weak in comparison to the rest of its series, I still don't enjoy playing it much on its own.


I like XX as well, but in my mind it can't really hold a candle to games like I, III, X68000/Chronicles, or Rondo, which puts it around SCIV or Bloodlines tier for me. Not bad by any means, but with a number of flaws that dampen it a bit compared to the standouts of the series. R&F is similar for me in its mid-tier status compared to the series, but it also has great production value (something which XX kind of does in half measures). I don't find its gameplay flaws as egregious, either—maybe I'm not particularly great at Mega Man, but in most of the games I'm usually stopping for a moment to consider my strategy on each screen before moving on, so the lack of flow never bothered me.

This is in opposition to Castlevania, where forward momentum is paramount to success and having a sluggish Richter in XX felt like a huge step back. Richter's acrobatics in Rondo might have made the game too easy, but they also made it fun. XX keeps the same moves but makes them feel terrible, and throws in a bunch of questionable level design choices that often aren't that fun. I get that they were going for a 'challenge mode' with this, but that Drac battle on the columns really does feel like more of a fan hack to me than something a proper Castlevania game ought to do. So maybe we can say that XX fares a teeny bit better in the moment-to-moment play vs. its CV peers than R&F does vs. its MM peers, but I think R&F does better in terms of highs and lows.
_________________
Image
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7858 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 257, 258, 259, 260, 261, 262  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BryanM, soprano1 and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group