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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:44 pm 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
It's been a while, but you'll also get a health refill during the quiz sessions with Abigail if you answer all of his trivia questions correctly. For some reason, they took it out in the U.S. version but they still make a reference to it in the manual.


Thanks for the clarification. I was basing my post on what I played from the US version, and I couldn't recall any other character chatter of interest, gameplay-wise.
Always nice to have someone well versed in japanese around. :wink:

BIL wrote:
This is about all I got around to doing, but it's where fell in love with it. :oops: Dump 'em in!

Spoiler: show
Image


One of the joys of playing as Haggar is that, unlike the other two characters, he literally dumps enemies into pits, as the GIF shows. He's also the only one capable of performing the ever-cool albeit very-useless "Suicide Piledrive", as I call it (by piledriving into a pit, killing both you and the enemy). :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:57 pm 


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Made some nice progress in Headdy.

Downed Funny/Angry:D Made it to The Rival where that asshole Maryuma chases you up a shaft filled with shit that kills you while in a make shift robot body with two legs.

I didn't get passed it, but I'm close to finishing it. Last boss is similar to Golden Silver (color indicates attack). A 1 CC shouldn't be too far off.

EDIT - Funny/Angry is easily the hardest boss in DH by a long shot. Dark Demon isn't too bad, particularly since he telegraphs his attacks.

Also the level design in DH is superb. More people should be playing this:D
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Last edited by Stevens on Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:09 pm 


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Mini techniquepost! Better illustration of Taromaru chain lightning effect, compared to the two I linked previously:

Spoiler: show
Image


I forgot victims catch fire too - that's \m/etal! Not only are they left twisted Francis Bacon-esque figures of agony... they're probably smelling like bacon, as well! :shock:

As shown above, the game's seemingly-overwhelming zako wisps are superbly conductive! If you're not smashing through 'em with aggressive use of the shield (despite what a certain shitty review has to say about "projectiles everywhere wahhh," it nullifies literally every attack in the game, erases bullets/zako on contact, and gives you a free jump extend, at the cost of resetting your charge)... you should be hitting 'em with chains or blowing them away en masse with slaves, aka BOMBA. Rather like Alien Soldier, trying to conventionally shoot/hack through the skittery zako will cause frustration, while leaving you open to bigger enemies. Artfully spam the advanced mechanics instead, ala using Counterforce and followup Phoenix Force to obliterate Xi Tiger's revenge bullet-spewing Galaga flies (who'll repel if not corner a typical shoot/dodge approach).

Similarly, if you're being overrun during large-scale ninja skirmishes, you're probably not bombing enough. Use the floaty jumps, lack of collision damage and generous enemy startups (audio-cued, even! note the would-be backstabbing kunoichi in the first GIF) to dodge and weave while readying a max possession shot, make a new friend, then nuke the crowd. Mix up with outright killshots to put the mass in massacre!
Spoiler: show
Image


Slaves aren't hard to make, nor are they particularly great help on their own - detonate aggressively. However, possessing a straggler, then letting 'em tag along to the next scene before issuing THE LAST COMMAND is a sound tactic! You are already bombed!
Spoiler: show
Image


Ignoring the outright incompetence seen elsewhere, I suspect newbies think of these mechanics as peripheral, or reserved for finesse play. IMO, you're best off getting your hands dirty with 'em early on. Just like AS, Taro is a game of eccentricities nonetheless geared for high-performance, high-yield carnage. Doesn't matter if you make a mess initially - technique will improve with experience just like in any other videogame. Or indeed life in general! The magic of videogames is nobody gets horribly maimed IRL, despite the whinings that action games tend to provoke from scrubbier corners!

Another of the game's idiosyncrasies I always stress, in a more cautionary sense: don't sweat the targeting reticule. Some commentary would have you think this is Wild Guns... outside of certain boss encounters, where you're given specific parts/projectiles to target, this approach will only tangle you up. Think of the attack as a short-ranged "taser" effect. Get reasonably near what you're aiming at before firing, and don't worry about stuff that's too far away to threaten you. Chain lightning / BOMBA will sort 'em out!

How'd I get onto Taromaru again - oh yeah, lightning weapons! I'm still trying to think up some more, but it's just Taromaru and Alisia Dragoon for now. I never got around to trying it myself, but AD's predecessor Thexder apparently uses a similar "tracking lightning" weapon system. I heard the FC port wasn't too amazing, and it's AFAIK otherwise PC-only, so I never really pursued it. Sounds cool though.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:33 pm 


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Breezed through the 1st three stages with Ninja leaving a train of orphans in his wake. Reached the asshole with the cane on stage four. So the uh..boss.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:08 pm 


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Bit of a difficulty jump for Ninja, that boss, since his crowd support is significantly tougher than the previous three's (st3 having none whatsoever, ofc). Where Kunoichi can duck straight under his cane, and even crouch-walk up with impunity for a grab, Ninja's got a bit more work to do.

Here's a short demo video I made years ago, again very outdated just like my full ALL. Nowadays, if I get the boss and two/three supports in the corner (0m43s), that's prime time for Atomic Chain Drop!

Spoiler: show
Image


TLDR: enemies will attack you during the invincible drop animation - you can grab 'em straight after. Even one support will work, but the drop might kill them outright so you won't get the looping effect. Still worth it for the chunk of damage even one inflicts.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:42 pm 


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I don't care what anyone says, every run of Spartan X hinges on stage four and what kind of shape you reach the mage in.

Every other boss? Low health? No problem. That fucking guy? Problem. And in the 2nd loop full health means nothing. I'm pretty sure at this point that if I beat him I'll reach the 3rd loop unless RNG goes insane and throws a shit ton of knife throwers at me on 2-5.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:59 am 


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Speaking of... I just picked up Spartan X 2 the other day. Hit or miss that one? It looks good for sure. Like a lost companion to the infinitely more well known Vigilante, but with more deadly one-hit kills.


Last edited by Sumez on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:30 am 


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It's good. It's pretty much Spartan X, but slicker and with actual levels. There's not that much level design, of course, given the type of game it is (the true "run to the right" type :lol: ), but you do have a conveyor belt section, another where the wind pushes you back and you even get to kick some doors down. :wink:
I actually prefer it to the first game (I have cleared neither, though I am close on both), though you can't use the spin kick here (where you kick and reverse direction to hit on both sides).

If you like the first game then you'll undoubtedly like this one too.

By the way, Stevens, just to be sure: are you playing the arcade original or the FC port?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:35 pm 


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__SKYe wrote:
It's good. It's pretty much Spartan X, but slicker and with actual levels. There's not that much level design, of course, given the type of game it is (the true "run to the right" type :lol: ), but you do have a conveyor belt section, another where the wind pushes you back and you even get to kick some doors down. :wink:
I actually prefer it to the first game (I have cleared neither, though I am close on both), though you can't use the spin kick here (where you kick and reverse direction to hit on both sides).

If you like the first game then you'll undoubtedly like this one too.

By the way, Stevens, just to be sure: are you playing the arcade original or the FC port?


Arcade via MAME.

Interesting and sad face post script -

Back in May I came really close to a cab clear at the Cradle of Aviation Museum on Long Island. Cleared it for the first time in MAME a day later. Fast forward to this January when we go to Funspot in New Hampshire - The largest arcade in the world (place where Steven Wiebe set his DK record) - all I want is the clear this frickin' game in the wild - And the controls are broken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_asNhzXq72w
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:57 pm 


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Ouch. :(
Look on the bright side, though -- pretty soon you'll have that 2-ALL, and will be able to perform it at an actual arcade, on your next trip. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:11 pm 


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No doubt!

I just found a high score run of 700,000+. I know how to deal with the mage now:D

Spoiler: show
The player walks him out to the pillar and gets him to copy himself. Then with the copy of the edge of the screen you walk forward. Then it looks like as you walk forward if you release the stick as he goes into the first frame of his attack animation it will cancel the attack. Then you continue walking forward. Once you pin him against the stairs (already knew this part) he is finished.

It is also possible he simply can't attack while walking backwards and the 2nd mage is on the edge of the screen OR that the player stopping causes the attack animation to begin and moving forward again causes it to stop. After watching more I think my last theory is the true.

Kind of like how they manipulate the barrels in DK. Hard to tell without testing though.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:23 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
Speaking of... I just picked up Spartan X 2 the other day. Hit or miss that one? It looks good for sure. Like a lost companion to the infinitely more well known Vigilante, but with more deadly one-hit kills.


Solid game in need of a higher difficulty setting. The way moves connect is remarkably satisfying, particularly the flying kick, and the crouch charge throw (seizing would-be backstabbers by the ankle and yanking them overhead to crash down skull-first, wiping out any pals in their path) is so brutally cool, I'm surprised I've not seen it elsewhere. Problem is a lack of consistent pincer pressure, as found in the first FC entry's "Game B" setting.

Odd, given it was apparently by Tamtex, devs of Metal Storm and its surpassingly tough second loop. Still an undeniably fun time, I just wish it cranked the pressure up a bit. The last stage's cargo platform fight is interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:26 pm 


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Aren't Tamtex in fact some variation of inhouse Irem? I think I recall searching around a bit and arriving at that conclusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:38 pm 


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AFAIK they were a wholly-owned subsidiary of Irem who later became an official branch, so yeah, pretty much. :smile:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:55 am 


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BIL wrote:
Sumez wrote:
Speaking of... I just picked up Spartan X 2 the other day. Hit or miss that one? It looks good for sure. Like a lost companion to the infinitely more well known Vigilante, but with more deadly one-hit kills.


Solid game in need of a higher difficulty setting. The way moves connect is remarkably satisfying, particularly the flying kick, and the crouch charge throw (seizing would-be backstabbers by the ankle and yanking them overhead to crash down skull-first, wiping out any pals in their path) is so brutally cool, I'm surprised I've not seen it elsewhere. Problem is a lack of consistent pincer pressure, as found in the first FC entry's "Game B" setting.

Odd, given it was apparently by Tamtex, devs of Metal Storm and its surpassingly tough second loop. Still an undeniably fun time, I just wish it cranked the pressure up a bit. The last stage's cargo platform fight is interesting.


Spartan X2 feels like it was designed to be played with only one life in mind (especially considering you only get partial health recovery between stages) and that's how I tend to play it. It's way too easy otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:14 am 


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Same - it's an approach I advocate with several console favourites that pack quality arcade action, but buffer the difficulty out with overly generous resources. The most recent that comes to mind is PCE shooter Override. If you treat each explosion of your ship as a credit spent, it's a fun little Gunhed-esque. Use the entire ship stock, and it's likely you'll steamroll it on your first attempt without even trying.

Even under those conditions though, I was clearing X2 the same night I downloaded the ROM. That and the Literal Underwater Fight Scene™ towards the end made me shelve it (man, I hate those!).

The Game Boy iteration is very similar - adds varied terrain, keeps the satisfying impacts, but loses the AC/FC's brute pressure and will probably be one-lifed in a few hours at most. But since it goes for like a quarter of X2's price, I didn't mind picking it up on impulse (also, I'm a softy for any OGB attempt at arcadey action). I rate it and X2 about the same really.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:09 am 


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BIL wrote:
Literal Underwater Fight Scene™


That was an issue with Marvel Super Heroes War of the Gems as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:11 am 


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hi. haven't posted in a while. but I got a 1CC in Mystic Warriors with Spyros tonight (video). I'm planning on eventually getting clears with all the characters. Haven't been playing much sidescrolling action other than that lately. Dead Fox turned out to not be much fun to learn, and I tried to pick up Daimakaimura but I'm just not really enjoying it. The randomness is really frustrating. Been playing shmups lately more than anything, oddly enough.

However! I have been playing Cannon Dancer just a little bit and that might be something I want to focus on, given how much I love Strider Hiryu; it definitely feels like the True Sequel to that game. The thing that really bugs me about it though is the music, like it sounds like it could be really good, like REALLY good, but it's sooo compressed. Like does it actually sound like that on a real machine??
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:05 am 


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yami no shigotonin kage / Shadow of the ninja

What a game! I had no idea that it existed until last week.
I also had no idea that Violent Soldier existed either and that looks like fun too.
Ah, the famicom: I keep finding brilliant titles that all the time.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:09 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:52 pm 


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Oh lawd, what's that Image I was gonna guess Natsume's Jetman, but since it's a blind guess, that would not be a very gallant job!

mycophobia wrote:
However! I have been playing Cannon Dancer just a little bit and that might be something I want to focus on, given how much I love Strider Hiryu; it definitely feels like the True Sequel to that game. The thing that really bugs me about it though is the music, like it sounds like it could be really good, like REALLY good, but it's sooo compressed. Like does it actually sound like that on a real machine??


Never had the pleasure of playing Cannon Dancer/Osman on real hardware, but offhand, it wouldn't surprise me if that's how it's supposed to sound, given lots of other fantastic arcade music that's better-enjoyed in OST form (Guwange comes to mind). Not sure if Cannon Dancer got anything of the sort.

MintyTheCat wrote:
yami no shigotonin kage / Shadow of the ninja

What a game! I had no idea that it existed until last week.


Do try its bookending Compact Action Man™ efforts Dragon Fighter and Shatterhand/Tokkyu Shirei Solbrain, if you haven't. Respectively simpler and more intricate, but it's a safe bet that if you like one, you'll appreciate the others. :smile: DF is quite good on normal, but absolutely shines on Hard and is best played that way from the outset; Shatterhand/Solbrain have cosmetic differences and an exclusive stage apiece, but if you're confined to one region, either will do; they're 95% similar otherwise.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:28 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Oh lawd, what's that Image I was gonna guess Natsume's Jetman, but since it's a blind guess, that would not be a very gallant job!


The revered Robocco Wars!
Super easy game, but I had a hard time not loving it.

This is literally the entire ending. There is no kind of intro, mid-stage cutscene or other kinds of storytelling shenanigangs to be found anywhere else. I guess the manual reveals who R-10 and Lance are.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:11 am 


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BIL wrote:
I heard the FC port wasn't too amazing, and it's AFAIK otherwise PC-only, so I never really pursued it. Sounds cool though.


There was an MSX cart release of Thexder. It's pretty much plug-n-play and meets Shatterhand's seal of approval.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:15 am 


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Have always been curious about Thexder. One of the few japanese(well there are a couple, but not THAT many) games outside the golden era arcade ones, to make it to DOS in the west. Would like to try the best version one day for sure (that game is on a shitton of platforms, holy). So MSX it is eh? alrighty


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:23 am 


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^ Yeah I thought that was neat too - combined with the odd name, I had to go around checking to see where it'd actually come from!

Apparently Alisia Dragoon was originally going to be a similarly mech-themed game, before going full magical girl with Gainax's assistance. To be honest, I think the way it plays (bullets everywhere, but avoid ~80% and you'll be fine) makes more sense for a mech than a waify sorceress. Not to get onto my usual AD control criticism jag!

Sumez wrote:
The revered Robocco Wars!
Super easy game, but I had a hard time not loving it.


Aha, that one! Instantly fell in love with its On Rails, Literally premise when kitten mentioned it a while back.

WelshMegalodon wrote:
There was an MSX cart release of Thexder. It's pretty much plug-n-play and meets Shatterhand's seal of approval.


Oh cool. :o Always liked the sound of those carts...
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:28 am 


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BIL wrote:
Not sure if Cannon Dancer got anything of the sort.


Doesn't look like it :( ...

Real shame. how awesome would this track sound in good quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iuhx1PyLppQ&t=1677s
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:17 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Have always been curious about Thexder. One of the few japanese(well there are a couple, but not THAT many) games outside the golden era arcade ones, to make it to DOS in the west.


There really aren't that many, which makes them all the more interesting.

Spoiler: show
Cobra Mission
Cosmic Soldier: Psychic War
Cosmology of Kyoto
(obscure period piece art game thing)
Dragon Knight III (as "Knights of Xentar")
Firehawk
Meisou Toshi (as "Runaway City")
Murder Club (detective graphic adventure)
Sakura no Kisetsu (as "Season of Sakura")
San Shimai (as "Three Sisters' Story")
Silpheed
Sorcerian
Thexder
Wibarm
Ys
(as "Ancient Land of Ys")
Zeliard


There were also a handful of localized ports to consoles (Golvellius, Haja no Fuuin, Phalanx, Granada, etc.), but I'm struggling to think of many such releases that weren't from the likes of Nihon Falcom or Telenet Japan.

I recall there being another dozen or so in the Windows 95-98 era, but they're pretty much all eroge.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:54 pm 


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Yeah I discovered last month that Ys 1 had a dos port. Pretty cool!

Aren't Thexder and Firehawk the same game though?

I also just learned about Zeliard. Didn't know that game existed, yet alone that it had western PC port (that beautifully supports the Tandy Standard for Graphics and Sound). Always happy to see japanese games on old western PC standards!
Have you played that one? it looks pretty interesting from what I saw

(gotta mention that I love the Tandy standard, so charming. Very Master System-ish, but it's got a hi-res mode to booth. The color palette is also cool even though super limited (16 colours I think?), on a crt monitor it looks vivid and sharp as hell


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:09 pm 


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Firehawk is Thexder's sequel, IIRC.

Man, why did my fellow Mach Rider admirer Drum have to get himself banned in the dumbest way imaginable? :[ He'd love all this Thexder talk and would no doubt contribute some interesting observations. If you're still around buddy feel free to pop in, your secrets are safe with me. ;3

Also I just realised why that name doesn't work for me, it's all lispy. Or lithpy. :lol: Not very Badass Laser Robot like VALKEN or RANZA. I thought it was some fruity elf game until hearing about the sequel, and even then, I assumed it was a fruity elf in an attack chopper or something.

EDIT: fucking hell! Just typing "Thexder" in ol' buddy's message history and I've already got another improbably-named robot action game to chase up, WIBARM. The fuck kind of name is that? Sounds interesting.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:10 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Yeah I discovered last month that Ys 1 had a dos port. Pretty cool!


Too bad it's garbage. Even the music is butchered.

Nerdly Pleasures wrote:
The only graphics options are CGA, Tandy and EGA 320x200 graphics. Hercules graphics are supported, but don't convey the original high resolution graphics of the original Japanese version. As bad as the graphics are, and they make the main character look like a walking turd, this is nothing compared to the laziness of the sound engine. Only PC speaker is supported, and there was no excuse for this in 1989.


FinalBaton wrote:
I also just learned about Zeliard. Didn't know that game existed, yet alone that it had western PC port (that beautifully supports the Tandy Standard for Graphics and Sound). Always happy to see japanese games on old western PC standards!
Have you played that one? it looks pretty interesting from what I saw


I never spent much time with it, but I remember it being quite the nice-looking game, with kickin' BGM to boot. (I applaud Sierra for their faithful EGA recreations of PC-88 pixel art.) It basically plays like Wanderers from Ys, down to monsters that will deal significantly more damage when coming up from behind.
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Last edited by WelshMegalodon on Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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