Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Obscura]

Thanks for the heads up. I always pictured the FC games as the superior versions, but now I'm looking forward to play it.

It's the case 100% for the first game. Super is a bit "controversial" around these parts (I seem to be the only person who's willing to say AC is 100% better than FC), but everyone seems to agree at least that AC has enough going for it that it's worth looking into as an alternative.

[WelshMegalodon]

I feel like Contra FC is just easy enough that you can see exactly how you died, but not enough that a beginner can be expected to react to every enemy on his or her first couple playthroughs. Not unlike Rockman 2. Kind of annoying if you ask me.

[Blinge]

Yeah how does the Megaman series hold up in comparison to muh real hardcore sidescrollers?
In terms of reputation & perception by action thread regulars.

[Vanguard]

Thanks for the tips so far. Let’s assume lower level of skill

Alright so like others have said, NES/FC Contra is a great start. The NES version is slightly easier, the FC version has better graphics, the difference isn't very big either way. Contra comes across as pretty tough at first blush, so don't get discouraged if you find yourself struggling with a game everyone else seems to be able to one life while blindfolded. It's totally possible to go from losing your credit on stage 1 to a 1CC in one day of dedicated practice. The 3d sections are pretty unintuitive, but all you need to know to beat them is that bullets can't hit you while crouching and nothing can hit you while airborne. The NES/FC version of Super C ain't bad either if you want more of the same.

Megaman 2 is another good beginner's platformer. I think it's a much harder 1CC than Contra but it has infinite continues and a beginner shouldn't have too much trouble credit feeding through. Go after Metal Man first as he is easy and his weapon is the best in the game. Get Flash Man's weapon before you attempt Quick Man's stage. One of the later stages is a puzzle of sorts that lots of people dislike so I'll just post the most important parts of the solution: When you get to the level with the invisible pitfalls, use Bubble Lead to see where they are. The boss at the end is only vulnerable to Crash Bomber and is only beatable if you arrive with a full supply and don't waste any - don't shoot unless it's 100% necessary. To varying degrees the rest of the NES and SNES Megaman games are good. Megaman X is a personal favorite - it's overall very approachable but the final boss is a big difficulty spike.

The Castlevania series is full of winners. The original is a bit on the harder side but you get unlimited continues. The stiff controls can be a bit of an acquired taste, but I find most people warm up to them once they've given it a bit of time. Rondo of Blood is superb and fairly approachable. Rondo's unlockable character, Maria, is very powerful and I recommend her for a first playthrough. My favorite of the Igavanias is Order of Ecclesia, which is fairly tough but it's also an RPG with generous save points, so a bit of persistence should see you through.

I've been shilling Cadash a lot lately but I suppose once more won't hurt: The World version of Cadash for the arcade has a very good difficulty level for an introduction to arcade 1CCs. The Priest and the Ninja are the best classes, so pick one of those, buy a full supply of 8 herbs every time you come to a shop, and do most of your level grinding on the rock monsters in the jungle area. To compare it to a shmup, I'd say a Cadash World version 1CC with the Priest is about as much of a freebie as a Bomb Style 1-All in DFK.

Wasn't aware they were that different; I thought it was a similar deal to Contra AC vs FC -- some differences inherent to a port for such different hardware, but mostly the same in terms of mechanics and levels. Will have to try it out someday.

Yeah they're pretty different (though I think Contra AC and FC are pretty different already). I posted brief reviews of AC Contra and AC Super Contra a while back. Basically AC Super Contra is harder, shorter and more action-packed than its FC port. It uses the same horrible aiming system as AC Contra, which ruins it for me, but if you're willing to work around that there's a solid game underneath. If nothing else it's worth playing to witness the incredibly badass super machine gun, which can even compete with the legendary spread shot.

[Obscura]

Yeah how does the Megaman series hold up in comparison to muh real hardcore sidescrollers?
In terms of reputation & perception by action thread regulars.

2 and 3 are really damn solid. 2's weapon balance is wack, but having eternal 8-way metal blade shots is a blast, so who cares about balance? 3 is probably the legit "best", really solid level and boss design in that one, but I don't have quite the same love for it, probably because I had 2 on the NES growing up but didn't ever own 3 on cartridge.

1 is really rough. None of the main series games I've played past 3 (which is 4-8) are worth a damn. X1 is good; X2 and 3 aren't. Mighty Number 9 is shockingly good, and easily the best Megaman or Megaman-adjacent game.

The boss at the end is only vulnerable to Crash Bomber and is only beatable if you arrive with a full supply and don't waste any - don't shoot unless it's 100% necessary.

There's a second workable approach to the BBT, as long as you bring in an extra life -- blow up the walls, let it kill you, refill your CB energy (as a kid, I always did this by playing the whole level in reverse and getting the two large pellets at the start), and then go back at it for a second round; the walls stay dead between lives, so it's really easy the second time.

[kitten]

Yeah how does the Megaman series hold up in comparison to muh real hardcore sidescrollers?
In terms of reputation & perception by action thread regulars.

[i'm quoting blinge, but mostly continuing conversation in general toward cannonball and what's good for beginners, here]

i feel like rockman's chief difference in comparison to the general flavor & preferences of this thread is that it has a bit of a "choose your own pacing" thing going on versus the threads' usual preference for heavy emphasis on forward momentum. a game like contra will continually press you forward (rather brilliantly, too! great first action game), but you can play rockman as tediously as you want and a lot of amateur action gamers get stuck on that and stagnate with skill growth because of the lack of emphasized pressure. the later rockman games also facilitate farming for e-tanks, and if you ever want a lesson on how bad that can ruin a person's growth, watch the rockman episode of GCCX and then then rockman 3 or 4 episodes. arino finishes the first rockman (a considerably more challenging game) much, much faster than the very easy 4 because of how much time he overprepares by farming. i would suggest even novices pretend the e-tanks do not exist or at least roll with the punches and use whatever they grab if they hope to improve themselves with the genre.

i would possibly recommend rockman 4 as a first over 2, honestly. 2 is a better game (minus the turgid wily stages), but 4 is probably the most even production of the lot of fc games and still quite good on its own. it's also got what is possibly the best & most balanced weapon set and no horrible roadblock for newer players like wily 4 in 2. i grew up adoring the series and would consider it a big part of my development into a fan of classic action titles, but i think a lot of players just sit on it without growing and that you don't learn from it without trying to - whereas, comparatively, one doesn't beat contra (without the code, of course) without being taught some meaningful skills.

i think it is also worth saying (repeating, as the thread has gone over it at this point) that contra is often comically, radically overestimated in its difficulty by the vast majority of hobby consideration. it's a really easy, gentle game - it just forces you to learn something to beat it, and some people consider that to be some sort of form of agonizing torture. i genuinely consider it easier than any rockman game (especially to 1cc - which is a very uncommon opinion off of this board), it's just that it lets go of comforts that modern players consider necessary. one hit kills and limited continues just don't sit well with some people! learn to adjust to them and get over the weird psychological conception of them as super scary and you'll ease right in.

- ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ - ~ -

in terms of general action game beginnings... i find it worth focusing on a single console you prefer if you're breaking into the genre, as it'll give you something to focus on. famicom is a great start, as it's got a wide selection and is chock-full of good beginner choices. i'm going to list some good picks for beginner games, below (other than the rockman series and contra). it's a big list, in case anyone new is just looking to play a slot machine with a bunch of ROM's until they find the one that clicks. gonna leave brawler-adjacent games like double dragon out and mostly focus on more traditional action/platforming -

- ~ - ~ -

Cocoron

what akira kitamura (the creator of rockman) did after leaving during development of rockman 3. not a great game, but really cute and with a really gentle difficulty and lets you screw around with some character creation options. though going heavy with a flight body and shuriken is pretty much the way to go, you can have a bit of fun messing around with this one and the options might make it more accommodating to break into for someone who finds the genre a bit too abrasive, at first.

- ~ - ~ -

Seirei Densetsu Lickle [AKA: Little Samson]

spiritual successor to cocoron, might again charm a non-action-accustomed player with its variety of characters and ways to tackle certain situations. has a few bumpy difficulty spikes, but with roughly every rockman game being worth recommending to a beginner, a game as adjacent as this is likewise worth a mention. unlike cocoron, lickle holds together pretty damn well as a solid action game on its own, though, and has better momentum than rockman (making it an easier bridge into the tougher stuff).

- ~ - ~ -

Dragon Fighter

natsume did a really great trio of action games for the famicom, and this is the most basic entry. great start for someone wanting to brute force their way into solid, basic action mechanics without all the bells & whistles of stage select, too many upgrades, etc. nice and straightforward, not too challenging for a beginner but might roadblock in the harder stages.

- ~ - ~ -

Yame no Shigotonin Kage [AKA: Shadow of the Ninja]

second in the trio of natsume action games. more complex and overarching, with the occasional push to want to actually route your playthrough to make the most use of certain power-ups or keep yourself at max power. still easy enough to accommodating, but will give a newer player the idea of planning their full run rather than feeling like a stage-by-stage grind to credit-fed clear.

- ~ - ~ -

Tokkyuu Shirei Solbrain [AKA: Shatterhand]

last in the trio, and the most like rockman in structure. a lot of players looking to branch out their action game portfolio go here first because they're suckers for that stage select and rockman familiarity, as well as natsume's trademark production values. doesn't actually play all that much like rockman, though! great action game, has the most complex routing you'd want to do to really pare down your run, too. don't be afraid to choose early favorites just on a presentation that charms you, and this one is a real charmer. an aside, but i prefer shatterhand to the jp version, it feels more like the intent and i prefer its exclusive stage.

- ~ - ~ -

Duck Tales

very easy starting point, but not at all so lacking in difficulty as for there to be nothing to gain from it. this one's real cute and very commonly played among people afraid to branch into tougher stuff. it'll get your feet a little wet and branch out your frame of reference, if nothing else.

- ~ - ~ -

Hoshi no Kirby: Yume no Izumi no Monogatari [Kirby's Adventure]

almost no pressure at all in this one, but this is like a genuine baby's first action game. reasonably high performance ceiling (for what it is) if you enjoy screwing around (going faster, optimizing your skillset with each move, etc.) and some excellent level design that is great for subtly teaching you to take advantage of the game's many toys in its playset. might be a good relaxing couple of afternoons if you're overwhelmed with something tough, just a nice way to unwind.

- ~ - ~ -

Gimmick!

maybe not the best choice for a beginner because this one is surprisingly difficult, but sometimes you need that over-developed, beautiful presentation to really sucker you into putting the effort in your first enthusiastic dive into tougher action. gimmick is my personal favorite game (full stop) and i'd be remiss to forget to put it on a list like this. this one is incredibly rewarding and has a really, really deep performance ceiling if you're looking for something to dump a lot of effort into.

- ~ - ~ -

Gremlins 2: Shinshu Tanjou

very solid overhead action and the culmination of sunsoft's efforts at this particular subgenre. pretty short & sweet and easy to optimize, if a little bit abrasive, at first. sunsoft makes some really attractive games, and this was one released at the height of their famicom mastery. maybe goes without saying, but give up whatever preconceptions you have about "licensed games" and their generally low quality when checking out the fc library in depth, some of them are great.

- ~ - ~ -

GUN-DEC [Vice: Project Doom]

ninja ryukenden/gaiden too mean? give this a shot. incredibly gentle by comparison to the entire NG series and a great way to kind of wedge your way into their design before giving them a more in-depth go. also consider the jp version of the third ninja gaiden, which is a bit more tough than this, but still massively easier than either of its predecessors or its american counterpart.

- ~ - ~ -

Jigoku Gokurakumaru [Kabuki: Quantum Fighter]

another "do you like ninja gaiden, but get frustrated with it?" suggestion. not as breezy as gun-dec, but still pretty dang breezy (especially once you wrap your head around there being exactly two jump heights - full and short - and there not being a variable other than that). really unique presentation.

- ~ - ~ -

Akumajou Dracula [Castlevania]

a common first recommendation to many budding action gamers, though it can be bit abrasive and jarring. definitely a great game, but i feel like it's not quite the best first go-to in my experience. however, lots of people tend to take to it! may be the legendary status of the series making it a big temptation to take down as a first, here, which is a factor worth mentioning.

- ~ - ~ -

Jackie Chan [Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu]

very straightforward hudson action game that tends to get overlooked in the pantheon of quality action game for the famicom. surprisingly good, reasonably paced, not particularly complex but likewise not too on the easy side. good production value and a lot less... um, spartan... than spartan x.

- ~ - ~ -

Mickey Mouse III: Yume Fuusen

very easy, very cute, very well-paced. released over here as "kid klown," but i think it's a lot cuter with mickey & co. has music done by the composer for the macventure trilogy ports (uninvited, shadowgate, deja vu), so you know you're in for a good time, there. has a few common amateur action game pitfalls (e.g. not scrolling the screen until you're too far up it) but tends to work surprisingly well. the balloon also has quite a few things you can do with it - no complexity on the level of something like gimmick, but not so far divorced it isn't worth comparing.

- ~ - ~ -

Super Contra [Super C]

in short, it's basically more contra. some people click with this one before the previous, so i figured i'd give it a fair recommendation. i personally think the first entry is more accommodating to newer players and a bit less filled with "gotcha!" traps, but both games are still good beginner choices and keep in mind that whatever works for you, works for you.

- ~ - ~ -

Wanpaku Kokkun no Gourmet World [Panic Restaurant]

another fluffy-but-quality action platformer with high production values. it's worth your time and reasonably easy enough.

- ~ - ~ -

Top Secret: Hitler no Fukkatsu [Bionic Commando]

seems mean-as-nails to so much as get past the first couple stages, but is actually really damn easy to get your first clear on once you figure out how easy it is to earn continues and upgrade your hp meter and get over the initial learning curve. stick with it until you've got that down, then see if the unique swinging mechanic gets you. bionic commando is a uniquely addictive action game with a really idiosyncratic hook to it, and you might find yourself sinking your teeth into what it has to offer. if you enjoy modern stuff like super meat boy where you do a lot of short segments that you get progressively better at without any pressure of the overarching run mattering much, this is a good jam.

- ~ - ~ -

Bucky o' Hare

really tough at first glance, but getting to the win screen ain't that hard with persistence. will toughen you up in a similar way that learning bionic commando will, albeit with a different skillset. again, recommended for people who like modern checkpoint-grinding games like super meat boy. lots of individually tough segments, but with a really easy and forgiving checkpoint system (and passwords, too!).

- ~ - ~ -

Kick Master

NES exclusive that i consider the pinnacle of KID's action game design. they've got a pretty diverse output, and whether or not you like this one could be a good indicator of whether or not you'd enjoy the rest of all their other stuff. they're one of the most idiosyncratic famicom devs and really worth giving a shot to to see if you click with them or not, and kick master is a hell of a lot fun. great soundtrack and a bit of a castlevania vibe, plays very much like its own beast.

- ~ - ~ -

The Little Mermaid

very short but definitely sweet. quality capcom production value meets a decent little action game that's a really easy first clear or really nice bit of fluff between more serious plays.

- ~ - ~ -

Power Blade

i've gone on extensively about this game and its very different jp version in another thread (and this one?), as well as talked about its sequel, but it's a perfectly satisfactory, leisurely jaunt. the shread of non-linearity in stage progression might find itself appealing to someone not fully acclimated to straight action, too.

[FinalBaton]

hello kitten!

part of the fun in classic Megamin is just bouncing around, trying to figure out which weapon is the weak point of whom(unless you're doing a buster-only run, then it's another ball game entirely), so it got that pretty big difference compared to the rest of games lauded in this thread. a bit of an adventure-game feel, maybe?

level design is pretty cool throughout the whole of the first 3 games. razor-sharp controls and some fun weapons too. And some Iron Maiden in 8-bit form to boot. superbly polished presentation. (I don't knowif that aspect is still gonna impress new players in 2019, but the level of polish and crisp controls... just how damn tight the game plays and feel, certainly made it extra impressive back then.)

pretty much agree with obscura regarding the first 3 games. although I remember really liking IV as a kid, but haven't played it since. gonna replay that sucka s00n.
really, really fun games. I think I also rented V as a kid. haven't played VI and VII

I don't reach first(far from it) for classic Mega Man when I want classic arcade-y sidescrolling action - that's more Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Castlevania's turf - , but when I want an action-adventure romp that's not too long by that genre's standard, and that has killer feel and appeal? Hell fucking yeah. The Blue Bomber is near the top of the pile for when I have that craving

It's a different beast than the Ninja Gaiden and what have yous. It scrathes a different itch

[Squire Grooktook]

Yeah how does the Megaman series hold up in comparison to muh real hardcore sidescrollers?
In terms of reputation & perception by action thread regulars.

They're too damn long to play in single sitting + stage selection means the difficulty ramp is a lot more lethargic for the first 3/4ths of playtime.

That and Rock's movement and general dodging/combat is just kinda boring to me these days compared to equivalently simple but more hectic stuff like Daimakaimura and such.

I like the X series onward because the movement mechanics are fun though.

[kitten]

howdy!

a bit of an adventure-game feel, maybe?

i think part of the popular appeal is that you can almost treat rockman like an rpg, if you want. each boss has a weakness, each stage stays permanently conquered, you can even backtrack in several of them for resources to make you more likely to succeed in a later level. a lot of people struggle with action games because they cannot demonstrably feel themselves getting better, but they know how to measure progress in terms of collecting things or permanently knocking one thing out at a time.

many people do not want to actually get better at something, they just want it chipped away with time and low-effort. i don't feel like this is necessarily a totally bad impulse and definitely do comfort gaming of my own (i prefer tension shooters like RE4/TEW/Dead Space or easier classic action games as my comfort over a JRPG replay, though), but i feel like it is all that modern gaming seeks to please, and i think that's shit. rockman is good bridge for a lot of people because it still has some of those comforts, but i've come to growingly see them as getting in the way of better action despite my long-standing, overt love for that series.

although I remember really liking IV as a kid, but haven't played it since. gonna replay that sucka s00n.
really, really fun games. I think I also rented V as a kid. haven't played VI and VII

i've posted my elaborate opinions on the series all over this forum, so i'm going to spare repeating them, but "1-3 are good and 4-6 stagnate" is generally the popular consensus, though i disagree with it (e.g. i think 3 is the worst nes game and muddled significantly by kitamura's spontaneous departure). everything past 6/GB V feels like a totally different beast, to me, though it's not all bad.

also, as a side note - within the rockman fandom, people tend to use roman numerals to refer to the GB games, for whatever reason. wish they'd have just kept the "world" subtitle in the states so that they had a more obvious differentiator.

[FinalBaton]

i think part of the popular appeal is that you can almost treat rockman like an rpg, if you want.

yeah, I can definitely see how that applies. pretty much the aspect that sets it apart from classic arcade sidescrolling games

i've posted my elaborate opinions on the series all over this forum, so i'm going to spare repeating them, but "1-3 are good and 4-6 stagnate" is generally the popular consensus, though i disagree with it

I will give another chance to IV and V soon for sure, and also I definitely am gonna give a chance to VI and VII

[Blinge]

Been enjoying the latter half of the hexalogy more than I thought I would..
Probably because it's easier =P

I haven't been enjoying the robots as much as Dr. Wily does though, jesus man.. have you no shame?!

Spoiler

[__SKYe]

It's the case 100% for the first game. Super is a bit "controversial" around these parts (I seem to be the only person who's willing to say AC is 100% better than FC), but everyone seems to agree at least that AC has enough going for it that it's worth looking into as an alternative.

Yeah they're pretty different (though I think Contra AC and FC are pretty different already). I posted brief reviews of AC Contra and AC Super Contra a while back. Basically AC Super Contra is harder, shorter and more action-packed than its FC port. It uses the same horrible aiming system as AC Contra, which ruins it for me, but if you're willing to work around that there's a solid game underneath. If nothing else it's worth playing to witness the incredibly badass super machine gun, which can even compete with the legendary spread shot.

Will definitely have to try it. Shame, I only tried Contra AC, and was obviously disappointed, and thought Super Contra AC was a similar case.
I've meant to ask this for awhile; has anyone given a proper playthrough of Contra's Taito TypeX incarnation? I've only tried it very briefly a couple years back, and it seems to be some sort of remake of the original, but with multiple characters, and I was wondering if it was actually any good.

I haven't been enjoying the robots as much as Dr. Wily does though, jesus man.. have you no shame?!

Let the old man have his fun.

[Vanguard]

Yeah how does the Megaman series hold up in comparison to muh real hardcore sidescrollers?
In terms of reputation & perception by action thread regulars.

Ranked from best to worst

4 Minus Infinity - It's a wild ride.
Zero series - The deepest and most challenging games in the metaseries. Zero is far more aggressive and less tanky than other Megaman protagonists, just what the series always needed. I like 3 the best overall but they all have their good and bad points. There's lots of annoying bloat across the series but it's all stuff you can safely ignore. The only serious problem is the low FOV that necessitates a lot of extra memorization, though it's nowhere near as bad as in MM7.
X2 - Excellent, fast-paced game. The upgraded X buster and starting with the dash are both big improvements over its predecessor. The biggest flaw is that many of bosses have significant periods of invincibility.
X1 - Very solid game. The upgrade system is lame since very nearly every item improves your HP in one way or another, but the levels, bosses, and new mechanics are all great. Solid selection of boss weapons as well.
MegaMari - High quality stages, weapons, and bosses. It has a nice difficulty level and one of the better implementations of character switching. It's good.
World 5 - The best of the GB Megaman games. It's got a tiny FOV but the stages and bosses do a good job of taking that into account. There's a bad upgrade shop but it isn't nearly as destructive to the game as the one in Megaman & Bass. I like the gigantic final stage and Sunstar is a cool final boss.
5: Double Jumper Level design that easily competes with Capcom's work. Easy but very enjoyably so, this is the Rockman equivalent to Rondo's Maria Renard.
4: Burst Chaser X Air Sliding A hack that makes Rock extremely speedy and gives him an airdash. Challenging and has good level design, though it will punish you harshly if you don't look before you leap.
5: Air Sliding - It's Rockman 5 with an airdash. It feels great, this is how Rockman should have handled right from the start. There's an alternate version of the hack with new levels which I didn't like nearly as much.
4 - Good levels and bosses, solid all around. Probably highest number of useful robot master weapons in the classic series.
7 EP By the author of Rockman 4 Minus Infinity. Lots of good ideas, but it is held back by RM7's awful FOV and some silly endgame design choices.
3 - No charged shot and trash robot master weapons mean this has the worst offensive arsenal in the series. Rush jet is extremely overpowered and somewhat makes up for it. Overall good stages and lame robot masters. Bad weapon selection UI.
2 - Decent set of robot masters, stages are mostly mediocre. The well-loved metal blade lives up to its reputation and is a big point in the game's favor. Hot take: Wily stage 4 isn't very good. Terrible weapon selection UI.
X4 - Slower pacing and weaker level design than the SNES X games. The bigger sprites take their toll on the gameplay in a number of ways. Zero as a full protagonist is a great addition and well-executed, though I suspect designing for two very different characters is a big part of why the level design suffers. WHAT AM I FIGHTING FORRRRRRRRR?!
X3 - Mechanically similar to X1 and X2 but with worse level design and an overall slower pace. Zero as a clumsy but overpowered version of X is a huge missed opportunity. There are way too many enemies that aren't dangerous at all but still slow you down.
1 - Less polished than the rest of the classic series but I like its short duration and higher difficulty. Thunder beam might be the best weapon in the whole series. The slippery controls are annoying.
5 - Mechanically it's pretty much Megaman 4 though I find it far less memorable. The spawn rate for extra lives is absolutely ridiculous, like one in ten enemies drops one. You almost can't not 1CC it.
6 - Jet form is fun though overall inferior to normal Megaman. Power form sucks. I don't know why so many game developers think it's fun to switch forms or characters just to bypass a trivial obstacle, but it's not. Why did they include those stupid animations when switching forms? Why did they change the charged shot sound to the normal shot sound? Why did they mess up sliding into a jump?
Rockman no Constancy - Outstanding visuals and music. Unfortunately this is severely held back by many aggravating design decisions in the Wily stages.
7 - The huge sprites and tiny FOV sabotage every aspect of this game.
8 - I can't handle how slow this is. When we fine that meteyah, we'we fine Doctah Wawwy.
X5 - It's X4 if it were made by an insane person. There are a million pointless and badly-explained mechanics. X can't use armor he finds until he gets a whole set and it's far more trouble than it's worth. Worst of all, Alia calls you up to tell you obvious things every few minutes and there's no way to skip it.
World 2 - Nothing does any damage. Even if you straight up damage race the bosses with the default weapon, you will win against most of them. To make things even easier, Metal Blade and Megaman 3's super Rush Jet are back.
& Bass - The stages are extremely tedious as Megaman and the bosses are extremely tedious as Bass. Not that they're all that good with the "right" characters either. Horrible upgrade system where your character starts with a trash weapon so you can collect items to bring it up to where it should have been from the start.
World 1 - Small FOV. The level designs frequently seem intended to inconvenience rather than challenge the player. Half the robot master weapons are unavailable until the very end of the game. Rolling cutter does damage every frame and is quite good.
X6 - An even more demented version of X5. The levels all find unique and creative ways to be as tedious as possible. The nightmare effects in particular are raw elemental anti-fun. The stupid armor system from X5 is back and this time it's a lot less optional. At least you don't have to talk to Alia.

[soprano1]

Nice comments, Vanguard. I don't think I agree with everything you wrote, but a nice summary indeed. 4 Minus Infinity is indeed a wild ride, go play it, everyone.

[bottino]

Alex Kidd in Shinobi World and Ninja Five-O are also beginner friendly games, I think.

Shinobi World is more on the easy side, short and sweet; Five-O is an homage to classic side-scrollers like the Shinobi and Ninja Gaiden series, as well as Bionic Commando etc. Solid game and it let's you save your progress between stages, so you don't have to worry about clearing it in one go.

If one feels like shooting things, Wonder 3 - Roosters is really accessible as well, if my memory serves me right. You can also play it co-op with a friend, which is always nice.

[__SKYe]

Yeah, Ninja Five-O is fantastic; one of the finest games in the GBA library.

[Blinge]

Vanguard living up to his name.. smashing through the videogame breach, first over the wall!
I'm following behind, covering my head haha

Is this just me? I find holding my charge shot as megamon makes my platforming get real shitty. Probably because my thumbs covering two buttons. Also the amount of times I swear i was supposed to jump in these games but get hit by a bullet, usually after i've changed direction on the ground. Can't tell if it's the game or my reflexes are terribu

[kitten]

Is this just me? I find holding my charge shot as megamon makes my platforming get real shitty. Probably because my thumbs covering two buttons. Also the amount of times I swear i was supposed to jump in these games but get hit by a bullet, usually after i've changed direction on the ground. Can't tell if it's the game or my reflexes are terribu

have you played world iv (gb)? it has this really interesting little stipulation where when you fire your charged shot, you're knocked back a pixel or two. it feels like the developers trying to force the player to learn not to needlessly hold charge shots all the time for rockman games, in general. lots of precarious platforming, but the enemies around it always just take one buster pellet, and if you went into it while feeling as if you had to hold a charge shot, you just swell up with anxiety about having it and backblasting yourself into a pit.

it's kinda neat!

[Jonny2x4]

Wasn't aware they were that different; I thought it was a similar deal to Contra AC vs FC -- some differences inherent to a port for such different hardware, but mostly the same in terms of mechanics and levels. Will have to try it out someday.

Having replayed the AC and NES Contra recently, I don't really find them interchangeable and I don't understand why they're often treated like they are (then again, I think the same thing about many AC-to-NES ports). From my experience, a lot of people who like the console Contras tend to dislike the arcade versions or don't care about them that much, which is understandable since AC Contra is pretty rough around the edges and not all that well designed to be honest. A lot of the strategies for one version cannot be applied in the other. For example, the 3D mazes in the arcade version have a time limit and weapon drops from the red guards are random (whereas on the NES they're fixed for each corridor). Also, the Rapid Bullets effect can be carried from one weapon to the next in the arcade version, whereas it gets cancelled on the NES the moment you change your weapon.

I actually like Super Contra and it's interesting how Super C, even though it's technically a port, it's actually more of a separate evolution of the same game. Like the original AC Contra was inconsistent with how its power-ups were designed. They went through the trouble of drawing unique designs for the Machine Gun and Laser Gun, but then they went lazy with everything else and just made letter-based icons. Super Contra ditched the letter-based icons to give a unique design to each gun, whereas the NES Contras went the opposite route and used letter-based icons for everything, yet the letter-based icons are what we think of the series nowadays.

[Blinge]

it feels like the developers trying to force the player to learn not to needlessly hold charge shots all the time for rockman games, in general.

Sooo... I shouldn't be running around ready to blow a load constantly?

no really, that's a serious question about megamun

[__SKYe]

Having replayed the AC and NES Contra recently, I don't really find them interchangeable and I don't understand why they're often treated like they are (then again, I think the same thing about many AC-to-NES ports).

Yeah, there are plenty of differences between Contra AC and the FC port, and I don't think they are the same. What I meant is that, both games deliver (or attempt to) a similar experience as far as stages/bosses go; again, plenty of differences, but Contra FC tries to be a semi-faithful conversion but ended up being the superior version. Similar, but not so pronounced, to Crude Buster AC vs MD.
So, since I never actually tried Super Contra AC (at least not that I remember), I thought - erroneously - that a similar case occured between it and the FC port; that the Super C FC was the definite version. But it seems that in this case, the FC game isn't just a straight, improved port, but is significantly different from the original to warrant a playthrough of both versions.

And yes, I absolutely prefer Contra FC to its AC equivalent, and I'd wager that the vast majority would agree -- provided they played both versions. I do enjoy the Base levels of the arcade game (both the time limit, and the need to follow the map) more than the ones in the FC port, though those are the weakest parts of both games, so no big deal overall.

[FinalBaton]

Sooo... I shouldn't be running around ready to blow a load constantly?

no really, that's a serious question about megamun

you can totally do it. with some practice you'll get the hang of it and then it won't impede your platforming anymore, just keep at it. I'm sure you'll get it in no time

it's just like holding the same button in the Super Mario Bros. games and rocking your thumb over the jump button. personally I hold the B button 100% of the time in SMB and it doesn't hurt platforming skills at all once you're used to it

[Vanguard]

Sooo... I shouldn't be running around ready to blow a load constantly?

no really, that's a serious question about megamun

Which is better depends on the situation. The charged shot will oneshot most things and can potentially kill several enemies at once. Against enemies who don't have mercy invincibility and who have too much health to take out in one charged shot, mashing will give you better damage output. As far as I know only bosses have mercy invincibility - try mashing/autofire against midbosses and see how much faster they go down. If you wanted to speedrun or something you'd memorize which parts of the games are better with the charged shot and which aren't. For normal play it doesn't matter much and Megaman isn't hard enough to worry about it. Just go with what makes you happier. For what it's worth, I usually keep the charge button glued down. In Megaman Zero I like to keep the gun charged and the sword uncharged.

I think Megaman is usually more fun with autofire. The pace-killing heavy enemies suddenly aren't a problem anymore, and it especially improves the games with weak weapons like Megaman 3.

[Cannonballs]

Thanks for all the advice, plenty to pick up and start playing. I always geared more towards best em ups growing up to present day and want to start spreading out a bit. Hope I can dig up NG and Contra carts.

[FinalBaton]

regarding should you always have your buster charged in classic Megamin, I say : it depends. sometime I like to start attacking an enemy/enemy wave with a charged shot and then rapid fire. sometimes I go directly with rapid fire. you just gotta experiment a bit and see what works best for which enemy types :]

[kitten]

Sooo... I shouldn't be running around ready to blow a load constantly?

no really, that's a serious question about megamun

it's a little bit less that you necessarily shouldn't and more that you really, really do not need to and need to realize that actively. it's a bit of a mental beast of burden. one of the reasons i think people go in harder on 4, 5, and 6 is because they end up playing them considerably more turtley, convinced that the charge shot is some sort of necessary thing to do and slowing their pacing down tremendously because they're always wanting one prepped before moving forward. you just do not need to do that. of the three fc games with charge, it's probably most frequently useful in 5 - lots of enemies with exactly 3 health and i believe that's the only game where if it hits a 3-health enemy, it continues going through them to nail a whole group. it gets hard to remember the exact between-game nuances of how charge works, but it's a little bit different in almost every game it is in.

rapidfire in rockman games is really, really potent (even on the gb games with the reduced fire rate) and the fire rate delay (it has to leave the screen before you can fire again) from a charge shot alone often negates the potential dps bonus of just running up to something while pressing that button faster. it's useful on aerial enemies or low hp groupings (because of its size and ability to pass through lots of them), but bigger targets are better off just being rapidly fired into, most of the time. i feel like it was something added more to increase boss fight complexity than anything. it's great in most boss fights because of the i-frames and general evasiveness of a lot of the robot masters, but 5/6 (NES) even added the stipulation that you drop a shot when hit, further trying to discourage constant, blind charging (though less effectively than IVGB's quirk, or even V's more limited range on a charge shot).
it also disrupts the music

if you've never played 6 in depth, i feel like it's one of the most fun if you get the suits early. jet suit cannot charge at all and POW suit has completely different attacks. in the x series, a halfway charged shot does 2 points of damage and has specific usage, but in the classic series, it only does a single point and modifies the hitbox (most beneficially in 5, where it gets a decent chunk bigger). however, the POW suit has a halfway charged shot that has almost no range but does actually do two points of damage. this can be extremely useful when used in the right light because you can fire them back-to-back pretty quickly. its fully charged shot also charges much faster and pushes many enemies/bosses back (the mr. x pendulum actually reverses direction when you pound it and can be killed real quickly by successively chaning charged shots, most bosses are at least pushed away). there's a lot of unique properties on the POW suit in that game and you're really, really missing out if you do not experiment. also, if you fire the charge between screens, rockman will rapidly punch while the screen transitions (which, uh, looks cool and is fun to do lol).

i mean, tl;dr: you do not need to charge nearly as often as you think, and if it's slowing down your pacing at all, you're definitely doing it too much and should learn to just take advantage of rapid-fire.

And yes, I absolutely prefer Contra FC to its AC equivalent, and I'd wager that the vast majority would agree -- provided they played both versions.

yeah, i really strongly prefer the fc version. frankly, i don't like super contra AC (which i did bother 1cc'ing), either. that aiming fucks with me really badly and the vertically oriented screen makes the infinitely spawning zako on the sides of the screen way more stressful than they need to be. i'd probably feel comfortable never playing the AC versions again for the rest of my life, whereas contra & super c are often sat down with for a while once a year.

[Vanguard]

Thanks for all the advice, plenty to pick up and start playing. I always geared more towards best em ups growing up to present day and want to start spreading out a bit. Hope I can dig up NG and Contra carts.

Ganbare. And remember, the Task Force is always recruiting.

[Blinge]

With a lot of 2d action or shmups, I feel like I'd have to re-learn them if I picked them back up.
Or that my skill with them is a flash in the pan type deal, where I get heavily invested one week, clear it, then forget.

Not so with Ninja Gaiden: feels like I can pick that game up and play well enough to have a blast every time.

[FinalBaton]

If you wanted to speedrun or something you'd memorize which parts of the games are better with the charged shot and which aren't. For normal play it doesn't matter much and Megaman isn't hard enough to worry about it. Just go with what makes you happier.

Pretty much!

Not so with Ninja Gaiden: feels like I can pick that game up and play well enough to have a blast every time.

Absolutely. With this one it's just like learning to ride a bike

[CIT]

Why is memorization in Ninja Gaiden different to you?

I cleared the game, but not having touched it again in three years, I sure as hell don't think I'd be able to do so off the cuff now.