Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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__SKYe
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

Yeah, you just have to pick a different form at the end of each level. I think he meant that you need four playthroughs to see all the game has to offer -- five, if you want to play with the human form all the way through.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by GSK »

Majyuuou's got an "official" repro fairly recently, as did some other oddities that people tend to check in this thread, like Gourmet Sentai Barayarou.

A lot of them have been showing up on Steam and other places as well--8 Eyes just hit Steam this week, in fact, and VICE is coming to Nintendo's online subscription service next week.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

Steamflogger Boss wrote:Thanks Vanguard.

And BIL mentioned a few not in his post there as well. Kitten I also find to be reliable for good recs/taste so I checked his as well. Gameboy isn't my thing at all or I would check those.

Lots of interesting Fami games I've never heard of to try out. :)
her* actually!

re: the majuu ou talk (i'd search "majuu" for more talk about it, though it is sometimes spelled differently that tends to catch) -

i did an upload a nomiss on hard (without losing the fairy) into this post - viewtopic.php?p=1286193#p1286193 - and there's several other posts from around that period where i'm talking about it (as well as a mini-review in the description of my video).

vanguard did the run, too, and then 1-upped me by doing a human-only run, as well (doing this without autofire is some thumb brutality) - viewtopic.php?p=1329292#p1329292

i really like that game a whole bunch! i don't think it's quite a superb action game and it definitely doesn't hit the ranks of hagane in terms of high-quality, lesser known action titles, but it's quite solid. it has a brisk pace, good control, brutal flavor, and it hits a pretty comfortable spot of being mostly easy but just demanding enough to still be highly engaging. it hits that kind of perfect quality for lazy afternoon replay value when you *kinda* want to get a 1cc on something but don't actually want to put the effort in for a demanding one. put it down for a year, come back to it, enjoy it again - great to have on your shelf (i've been tempted to get one of the official repros just for the snazzy box, because fuck paying for a real one at their prices lol).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Image

KILL THEM AND DONE Image

Recorded a TNWA Ninja Hard 1CC, pretty happy with it. Took a few beatings, but mostly exorcised the hesitance of the ancient run. Ninja ain't bout hesitance! Better to take a beating than hide from one! Ditch the crouch P spamming - it's a false refuge for Ninja, hampering both nunchaku and his advancing grabs, and leaving him liable to an instant flooring. Standing P will absorb two hits while closing in for grabs, and lets you bust out Nunchaku or guard in a snap. If you're getting swarmed regularly, you're probably not using nunchaku enough. I tried to be less bomb-averse this time, too. I don't like them much, as a rule - I'd have made them build on damage given/received only - but you gotta accept when your mistakes and/or cruel chance have you dead to rights! :o

Took my worst beatings by far in stage 3, which is a weird place balance-wise. The game's not outright trying to kill you just yet, but it's got a few ready-made pincers that can rile up (particularly THE FIREMEN near the start - I call 'em Pete & Danny, geddit?! bwaaa!). Phantom Gecko getting Claw backup in TNWAA is the best thing ever. The SFC's only cold spot, though there's always a certain satisfaction in scruffin' him out of his sneaky bullshit.

Really happy with st5-2 aka Ninja Room, a point where things have historically gone to shit for me. TNWAA makes things easier by locking new spawns out until the Claw quartet are dead - on SFC, if you don't squash 'em en masse, you'll have other enemy types jumping in as each dies, causing all manner of complications.

st7 mortar field was a complete and utter shitshow. :evil: I can't be mad. Image

The crowd bottlenecking I mentioned a page back is perhaps most useful in st8's hangar onslaught. Leave the item box untouched, and you'll have one less enemy onscreen. Of course if you're in bad shape, you may need to moderate this tactic slightly. In the replay, I absentmindedly broke the box, then thought "yeah, I'm a bit rusty for four on the floor, let's take it eas-" Then I was promptly blockstunned onto the item and all hell broke loose. :mrgreen: Or TRIED TO break loose, rather. Image

A couple of ugly input errors vs Phobos & Deimos - I botched turnaround punches, and took a pair of three-hitters. I'd forgotten how much goddamn damage they do! :shock: Once I saw my lifebar in tatters, I shut 'em down quick. For the most part I took my time playing around with bosses before then, CHAINSAW BULL aside (a speedy kill there is rip-roaring entertainment in itself). Zelos and Banglar I took down in short order...

...or what I thought was short order, in Banglar's case. I became convinced that he could only be hit by Giant Swings ala TNWAA. :lol: I'd have come pretty close to my benchmark 40min clear, if I hadn't subconsciously wasted so many good shots. I did batter him with repeated Bruiser throws, but that's Kunoichi's thing! (only bigger enemies will connect off her side throw in TNWA - get a Bruiser or Loader center-screen and you can cockslap Banglar with mad abandon).

In love with the combo mechanics all over again, specifically the expertly-judged window on Nunchaku and BAKURETSU FIST. An ineffable smoothness in clipping a couple zako to rev 'em up, then blasting a hard target with the finish. Can feel like reaching for heaven from hell when the pressure is on! A subtle, super-smooth riff on the classic Final Fight combo. I wonder how connected Shatterhand was to it. The lenience is very similar.

Image

"Come back, Ninja-san!" Image
"Gomen, BUNZU-chan. Mine is a body made only for... HARDCORE KILLING." Image


Oh wao, thanks youtoob - one of those random thumbnails that feels like a gift from the universe! Ninja in one frame. Apologies if I screwed the video up btw, it's my first foray into 60fps uploads. Dunno what I'm doing tbh. I think it's going through?Image

---

Kinda scary going straight back in from TNWAA! Although the remake superbly translates and builds upon the SFC mechanics, lots of little things don't work quite the same. Above all, things can go to shit much more suddenly in TNWA, on account of the relentless proximity. It's harder to break out of bad pincers, post-knockdown, too. You get more mileage out of each attack in TNWAA, with even the basic throw liable to tag on an extra hit or two. The giant swing will outright batter enemies caught at pointblank, becoming a quasi-crowd resetter. Prevention is critical in TNWA, especially with there being fewer life restores overall, and absolutely none in a handful of critical spots. (though TNWAA gets the last, meanest laugh imo - removing the final screen's restore, ensuring any mistakes vs the last wave will burn extra-hard).

As I expected, TNWA is the more technically conservative, but also more technically punishing game. TNWAA's AI is every bit as assholic, and the more aggressive enemy types will make a murderous beeline for you as ever, but it doesn't have quite the same evil pressure. It's more opt-in there - toe to toe, you can be knocked on your ass with the same shocking/infuriating quickness, but staying at the edge of (or hauling ass away from, or busting out from beneath) the scrum is a more realistic prospect. I'm hard pressed to say which I like more, between TNWA's pressure and TNWAA's ultra-smooth advanced handling. The SFC game will forever stand as a model of economical design, regardless. Both are total desert island material for scrolling violence aficionados - focused, refined and friggen stacked with replay.

I was surprised to notice there's no "quick getup" mash on SFC - seems to be new to TNWAA. EDIT: nope, I'm totally wrong - it's in the SFC game, too. That mechanic also aggravates the remake's input glitch (mash to get up, grab a nearby enemy, and those P inputs can bleed into the grapple, depriving you of control). It's not game-ruining by any means, but with this pedigree, it stands out. I'm gonna wait until the world release, then see if I can submit a bug report for TNWAA - would probably need the help of JP-literate comrades, I can only just manage English! Hoping others may have noticed it already, and the devs will be able to sort it out. I want to see these controls go from 99.9 to 100% perfect.

Will give Kunoichi 1CC a go now. Non-invincible grapple, no projectiles, and especially no juggles messes with my head, far moreso than Ninja's relatively close game, but the lack of TNWAA's small but annoying grapple input glitch will be nice. She's by far the most affected in my experience, with Ninja's and Yaksha's more methodical inputs and Kamaitachi's lack of conventional grapples largely insulating them. I've barely even tried Raiden, just long enough to know he's yet another total original.
Last edited by BIL on Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

GSK wrote:Majyuuou's got an "official" repro fairly recently, as did some other oddities that people tend to check in this thread, like Gourmet Sentai Barayarou.
IIRC Gourmet Sentai is a Piko Interactive release. I'd recommend avoiding those!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

kitten wrote:
her* actually!
Oh damn, my bad. No one ever specifies and I just assumed. Actually it's probably more accurate to say I never consciously thought about it. To me we are all just people here talking about games but my brain defaults to male pronouns.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by kitten »

don't worry abt it steamflogger, i generally assume masculine pronouns for everyone on here, too
Sumez wrote:IIRC Gourmet Sentai is a Piko Interactive release. I'd recommend avoiding those!
what's wrong with them? not a loaded question, i very genuinely have no idea
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Image

Got the Hard 1CC. Absolutely stellar game. Kunoichi and the remake will be nice things to look forward to.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Nice. :smile: Interested to hear how you find Kunoichi, I've had a blast revisiting this weekend. I can never decide whose game I like more.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

kitten wrote:don't worry abt it steamflogger, i generally assume masculine pronouns for everyone on here, too
Sumez wrote:IIRC Gourmet Sentai is a Piko Interactive release. I'd recommend avoiding those!
what's wrong with them? not a loaded question, i very genuinely have no idea
Telling from a sega 16 thread, the carts have the incorrect voltage and possibly improper regulation (according to dbelectronics). However, the Columbus Circle carts also have incorrect voltage without anything extra inside to compensate.

I have been playing TWNAA with a bit of the original. I unlocked Raiden in the former and I started on hard (so far, I have made it to stage 4 on hard with one credit).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:Nice. :smile: Interested to hear how you find Kunoichi, I've had a blast revisiting this weekend. I can never decide whose game I like more.
Alright, early Kunoichi impressions:

This is hard! You're telling me Kunoichi can compete with my boy Ninja? There's no way...
Dodge jumping behind someone and attacking from behind seems unbeatable one on one, but TNWA isn't about one on one.
Kunoichi's combos are without question the worst of the three characters. With five hits in total, you really need to work for your invincibility and the katana doesn't impress compared to Ninja's nunchaku.
Blocking is a lot more mandatory than it was with Ninja and Kamaitachi. Playing Kuniochi probably builds good habits.
Despite Kunoichi's short reach, you can still beat most enemy types by simply running up and attacking. Just as with Ninja, you want to think like a predator, not like prey.
Lots of bosses can't deal with dodge jumps and crouching. Kunoichi could fight Silverman and three Jubeis all at once and it would be a joke.
The flurry is ridiculously vulnerable and its damage is a joke if you stop early. I miss the atomic drop already.
Kunoichi's standing attacks are low enough to hit the claw dudes, but they outrange her. Everything about how they need to be dealt with is different to the point where they might as well not be the same enemy.
Destroying a golem's head prematurely as Kunoichi isn't the dreadful mistake it is as Ninja. They might even be more dangerous with their heads intact, a possibility I never considered before.
Green blood is lame.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I noticed the enemy placement on hard is a bit different in TNWAA. I like how two claws were added to a certain area in the first stage as a cheeky nod to the original US version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

kitten wrote:
Sumez wrote:IIRC Gourmet Sentai is a Piko Interactive release. I'd recommend avoiding those!
what's wrong with them? not a loaded question, i very genuinely have no idea
The ol' 3.3v issue with modern ICs (typically flash chips) that don't work well in 5v circuits. The game will play, but the excess current will damage your console over time if there isn't any circuit on the cartridge PCB to regulate it. Apparently Piko is one of the people who refuses to acknowledge the issue as being real.

Also, I've heard lots of stories about shady business dealings, and refusing to pay the developers whose game he is selling, etc.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Vanguard wrote: Destroying a golem's head prematurely as Kunoichi isn't the dreadful mistake it is as Ninja. They might even be more dangerous with their heads intact, a possibility I never considered before.
Green blood is lame.
You can kill a golem without destroying it's head?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Vanguard wrote:Lots of bosses can't deal with dodge jumps and crouching. Kunoichi could fight Silverman and three Jubeis all at once and it would be a joke.
They kinda/sorta tried to deal with this in TNWAA - Silverman has a brutal overhead that'll squash crouch P spam, and Jubei is just really goddamn fast and not as easy to approach.

Spoiler
Image


^random streamer - not the best play, but it does happen!

But yeah, Kunoichi's on easy street for these two in TNWA. Outside of them, I was wondering if the spectre of Kamaitachi was looming, but of course the difference is she actually needs her crouch combos (and they're not as good!). Trying to avoid crouchspam in my replays, but there's times when you genuinely need to hit the deck, typically vs Bruisers. Or, uh, "Over Shinobus." They'll make ricecakes outta your goddamn face!

Claws, holy fuck I forgot how annoying they are for Kunoichi in TNWA. The remake much the same, but her new katana roll makes them a lot easier to corner. More annoyance means more gratification when I squash the buggers, ofc. Speaking of...
Green blood is lame.
Yeah Image

Image
Sumez wrote:You can kill a golem without destroying it's head?
Yep! It's tricky, but Golem "overkills" can happen. Typically by nailing them with a super attack (Rockets / Katana), after doing a bit of initial damage. Easiest way is probably to get behind them, so they'll be vulnerable to the whole combo, not just the ender.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Not sure if this was posted here before, but here's a nice (official) comparison of sprites between TNWA and TNWAA

https://www.natsumeatari.co.jp/tnwoa/repository_1.html
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Beyond the upped frames and general smoothness, I love TNWAA's exuberant personality - totally in line with the SFC's colourful action figure cast. Lots of little mannerisms and poses across the board, like Gecko's evilly playful head waggle and theatrical creeping, and Silverman's harriedly barked orders. Formerly passive Oni Masks and Secret Service now simmer with controlled aggression. Even the purely robotic Golems, Battle Roombas and Rocket Drones have a certain sympathetic flex as they move, crumple and explode - the former's decapitation bringing on a crazed chugging gait almost recalling Einhander's "mechagony." (ta Obi)

Jubei's stance is friggin intense, I thought it looked kinda daft in footage tbh. :lol: In-game it totally fits though, absolute speed demon. The smattering of new moves look great, too. CHAINSAW BULL's throw is as purposefully violent as his door-shearing intro, Silverman's cane is now an imperious sceptre for thrashing plebs, Zelos rampages like the caged beast he is.

EDIT: Even KNIFE ARMY is lookin' good, bless 'em. Walk cycle's more brainwashed and/or hopped-up n' READY 2 STAB than ever! Also: Professional Loading Icon™, do not attempt! I think I'll adopt him as the official Work In Progress icon of R2RKMF :cool:

Image Image

(give CHAINSAW BULL his own spinoff pls Natsume Image - the world is ready for Violent Fireman Action. He's the homicidal chainsaw-wielding behemoth with a heart of gold! MISSION 1 SAVE PUPPIES / MISSION 2 RESCUE GRANDMA / MISSION 3 EXECUTE DISHONEST LANDLORD)

Scenery is also far more consistent - st1's odd bistro/power station now has a Nazca-esque industrial solidity. st2's vague underground is a foundry brightening progressively as the smelting pit nears. st7's valley conceals a cavernous bioweapons facility, chasm-bound for good reason. Lots of fine-brush detail to go with the grand vistas, too, like st4's appalling destruction deftly bookended by scattered files around an abandoned limo, and the claw marks and red spatter near Zelos's cradle.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Sumez wrote:You can kill a golem without destroying it's head?
You can but destroying golem's head as Ninja isn't necessarily a problem, what you want to avoid is destroying the head without being immediately ready to finish it off.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Brothers and sisters I have deliverance on the way. Through the power of Yamatoku I have procured INTENSE NINJA ACTION, FAMICOM STYLE for the proper experience. Good times ahead and believe it or not I've never played Shadow of the Ninja so I'm really looking forward to it.

I actually made my own list based off the recs here and will be getting to all of them in due time.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Superb game, but expect a bit more of a learning curve compared to NG, CV et al - Natsume's favoured powerdown on damage mechanic, and the odd way projectiles temporarily replace your main weapon, can make the early going kinda rough. Totally gains with experience though - has the sort of stage design that completely transforms once you're tearing through it at speed. Stages 4 and 5's respective uses of the hanging grip are especially sharp! Ninja Ryukenden GB aka Ninja Gaiden Shadow is essentially its mini-sequel, mildly rebadged with Tecmo's license - you might want to give that a go too. There I go shilling the ol' GB again. :wink:

Speaking of Natsume!

Image

Ah, Kunoichi-chan. ¦3

Baby don't hurt me, no moreImage
Spoiler
Image


43 minute clear, happy enough again. Followed an absolute tragicomedy in which 1) the hangar HP restore got scrolled offscreen 2) this meant doing the whole thing at 25% HP, but 3) the crowd was perma-choked by the offscreen restore, so everyone was fucked. Image It was so pathetic (and quite a good run otherwise), I was going to begrudgingly keep it, but I died at Banglar.

I've never nailed down precisely how this game's HP boxes work, but from these sessions it seems more HP = bigger restore. Was at death's door in the aforementioned run, and only got a midsize before Banglar. This run I was in far better shape, and got a max. Odd.

I think 40mins would be my limit for Kunoichi, versus maybe 35 with Ninja. As I remarked to kitten a few years back (how time has flown!), I'm not the XTREEM frame-optimiser type, but TNWA is just one of those foot-to-the-floor shredders where MURDER MACHINE efficiency beckons naturally.

TNWA's controls are, to the best of my knowledge, perfect. I tend to break the games I love, because it's in my nature to burrow down into the spaces between the frames, trying to find the limits of control. The notion of videogames snared my GI Joe/Transformers-obsessed 6yo imagination, and won't let go until I'm dust. I'm used to discovering stress fractures in even first-rate stuff like Double Dragon II FC, Metal Storm and Shatterhand, never mind the more evidently glitchy likes of Holy Diver, Raf World and Alisia Dragoon. Even Natsume's own TNWAA unfortunately has a grapple input glitch I'm hopeful will be patched out.

Then there's solid stuff with benign quirks (Akumajou Dracula's odd backwards jump), sometimes serendipitously integral to their charm (this thread's namesake).

Spoiler
Image


^^^ from Baton's vid, found while combing the thread for new index links.
THAT IS THE VERY SOUL OF NG1 OTG SWORD (;`ω´;)

I've yet to find a way to make TNWA quirk, let alone drop the chain of command. Reiterating this as, along with the super-volatile AI, it's what makes this one of the most satsifyingly tactile 2D action games ever. Any snags or breaks in the chain would spoil it. Kunoichi is every bit as much of a grappler as Ninja - her short reach makes reconfiguring crowds on the fly imperative. Side throw's lightning-fast bulldozer is an obvious asset, but Hair mustn't be overlooked! Use it like a sledgehammer to batter hard targets back, while creating a Katana launchpad as the hapless recipient wakes up. Or as a rear guard, landmining would-be backstabbers, or air control, bringing Katanas crashing down. I tried to get in the ruck as much as I could in this replay, as (besides likely being the key to quick clears) it's where this character really shines.

A few observations, some relating to TNWAA:

- Stage 7 mortar field CONTAINMENT METHOD / KUNOICHI
1) leave the Golem untouched, as much as you can; the bikes too ofc.
2) use Hair to damage targets
3) use Bomb only when Golem is downed, to prolong its life
4) use side throw to keep Golem out of your way / hit other targets
5) be praying

For Ninja, I think you could transpose this somewhat. Still not a segment to take very seriously, but then again HP restores aren't abundant in st7!

- Stage 8's path split definitely feels like a difficulty select, with [left] being nastier in both original and remake. TNWA limits itself to tougher crowds, TNWAA adds some tricky environmental hazards (it's also the only place to enjoy demolishing the rad "server rack" scenery). I'm ashamed I took it easy with Ninja, now! Poor Kunoichi had to pick up the slack. I could swear the Shinobu in the very first crowd is hard-coded to superjump across the screen at you... fucker tagged me every time.

- Crouching enemies are no longer flattened on impact in TNWAA. Although I like the consistency in TNWA, I think this was a good change. Flattening an enemy hurts you much more than it does them. Standing = combo and crowd control options galore. Crouching = enemy escapes with minimal damage, player is SOL. I wouldn't mind as much if there was a ground attack mechanic ala Technos. And volatility is of course integral to TNWA - being left empty-handed by a croucher certainly forces you to improvise. But this feels more akin to a booby prize, ala Wild Guns' dread peashooter. Not that extreme, of course, but expertly planting your shoe in a motherfucker's teeth should never be a cause for videogame disappointment!

-Kunoichi's rebound kick is a hard knockdown in TNWAA; can't start combos. Although the dedicated frames and more "realistic" animation are cool, the loss of control is a shame. Seamlessly switching from flooring secondary targets to pummelling an enemy of choice is both tactically valuable, and just viscerally pleasing.

- Kunoichi and Yaksha, TNWAA's smallest characters, can duck Battle Roombas' lasers. No dice in TNWA. EDIT: Happily, chronic TNWA crouch P offender Kamaitachi will get blasted just like Ninja in the remake.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by __SKYe »

Finally got around to playing Ninja Warriors Again (SFC) and eventually managed to clear it with around 30 credits with Kunoichi. I still very much suck at this game. :)

Image

Made it to the 5th boss on one credit, lost some 5~6 on the 7th boss and the other twenty something on the final stage and boss (especially the boss). Definitely could have gone much worse, as there were several occasions on that first credit where I very nearly died.
I attribute a good deal of those deaths (most of them?) to just not being used to the gameplay itself, and it should go considerably better in future runs. The game is fun, and all three characters are different enough that there is a lot of replay value.

I got a lot of mileage from using meaty neutral jump kick + grab + throw (or hair throw) against most bosses (except the last two) and it worked fairly well. Against the 7th boss, which gave me a headache, I found that moving away from him will prompt him to jump in your direction and give you the opportunity to grab/hit him. I actually played the game a few days ago for the first time, and it was at this boss that I gave up, so I would have wasted a lot more credits on him otherwise. :)

I was having a lot of trouble on those four Cyborg-Andore guys on the last level until I realised that the standard knife slash is pretty effective against them. I was pretty overwhelmed with the moveset that I completely forgot to try the simpler tactic first. This is one of those things that should get improve as I get more experience with the game.

A few questions; I've yet to properly try the other characters so, why is Kamaitachi easier than the others? Do you use the guard move at all? And, how exactly to you perform the move where Kunoichi jumps off an enemy's head? I've done it a few times, but I have no idea how.

Anyway, I'm glad I finally got around to play this (only 2.5 years late :) ). I'll work towards a Kunoichi Normal 1CC for now.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

__SKYe wrote:Finally got around to playing Ninja Warriors Again (SFC) and eventually managed to clear it with around 30 credits with Kunoichi. I still very much suck at this game. :)
Feels like yesterday I was getting my ass handed to me by CHAINSAW BULL. :mrgreen: Still learning to this day - very much a game for life, not just for Christmas. Image

I almost feel like writing a little ST, for those who discover this game later on... the rogues' gallery is totally worth giving the Gun.Smoke treatment. Either way, gonna get another Ninja clear recorded this weekend, now that Kunoichi knocked some rust off. I feel lame having taken the easy route in stage 8. Snuck in a good run tonight, but when I got to st8 I got flattened again by the first Shinobu. Was only a practice run, and Ninja feels like riding in a goddamn Mobile Suit after Kunoichi, so I tried going all Power Of Anger for a laugh, ignoring his crowd and charging straight at the motherfucker barfight-style. Image

This is never a good idea in TNWA! :shock: Image

Spoiler
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^ artist's rendition of subsequent events. :oops: I survived to the Hangar but it'd gotten so damn ugly I pulled the plug. :lol:

~Dainty Session Notes~
1) never ask yourself "how many more times will Fox (Secret Service) jumpkick in from offscreen" - THE ANSWER IS MORE
2) pretty sure Foxes are hardcoded to rush in and throw you out of a retreating guard. Lately I've taken to pre-emptively guarding when approaching their spawn points, but I've gotta watch out for this.
3) Rifles take longer than other enemy types to recover from a knockdown. Katanas escape grabs quicker than others. Knew this already, but burnt it into memory after hilarious mishaps on account of both factors! You can see in my current Kunoichi run where I expect a Rifle to be up and ready for throwing at Banglar, only to feel the sad. Image
I was having a lot of trouble on those four Cyborg-Andore guys on the last level until I realised that the standard knife slash is pretty effective against them. I was pretty overwhelmed with the moveset that I completely forgot to try the simpler tactic first. This is one of those things that should get improve as I get more experience with the game.
For those guys, note they lack the st1 boss's wakeup i-frames. So once you floor them, the fight's over, pretty much. Hanging back is a bad idea, their boot outranges Kunoichi badly (I eat one in my replay, st8).

Speaking of the basics: be aggressive with grapples, even against bosses. They lock on frame-instantly; even the tiniest opening will work. A good example is Chainsaw Bull's wakeup chop, which has a small vulnerability right as he brings the saw down - a grapple will snatch him every time (just walk into him as he executes the attack).

Also, take advantage of the considerable i-frames surrounding throws (with a massive exception for Kunoichi's flurry, the game's single strongest attack but also one of its most unsafe).

This gif shows a bit of both techniques - grabbing Chainsaw Bull out of wakeup, with plenty of Atomic Drop i-frames to keep his crowd off my back.

Spoiler
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Besides the heavy damage of the [down] slams, the side and up variants are hugely powerful crowd controllers. Even if you're surrounded with attacks raining down, it's possible to turn the tables with a flick of the d-pad.

It's also very possible to bank on the grapple saving you after a risky attack. Basic example here, muscling out of an otherwise certain knockdown. The Panther is too close for my jumpkick to connect cleanly, but I don't want to risk walking up on him (might get blown away by his nasty roundhouse), or even crouch-walking (boss is waking up!), so I improvised with a grapple from in deep. I take two of my three-jab allowance from him and his pal, but flatten 'em both in time to resume attacking the boss.

Obviously the ideal is to not get swarmed in the first place, but this is a game where mishaps will most definitely happen. :wink: Quoth VJ Emmie from Kampala Uganda... EXPECT THE UNEXPECTABLE Image
A few questions; I've yet to properly try the other characters so, why is Kamaitachi easier than the others?
It's his crouch P combo, mostly. The punch itself is long-ranged and lightning-quick, and it chains directly into a similarly powerful combo ender. Combine this with his fast crouch-run, and his lack of grabs allowing him to run circles around enemies, and you have much greater scope to just crouch P everything to death.

He's still worth messing around with for at least one clear - has some fun unique mechanics - but he's the EZMODE character by a profound margin.
Do you use the guard move at all?
Absolutely - the most pressing use is when you're being comboed. Most enemies have three-hitters; as soon as you see the first hit connect, just hold [attack] and you'll instantly enter guard state. Besides averting a meter-killing knockdown, you'll hold your ground - you can counterattack as soon as their combo ends.

Since you enter guard instantly upon returning to neutral state (from hitstun, or one of your own moves), it's also good practice to hold the button while attacking, in case you're blocked (or if you whiff a move).

For Kunoichi, guarding enables a front-invincible flip, which is useful for advancing on strong enemies, and can also buy you some time to think. It's an excellent way to safely bait out an attack while landing behind the target, ready to counterattack. Ninja has a much shorter front tumble, which can get similar results with some creativity and finesse.

You can execute backflip variants with both characters, but caution is required as they leave your back wide open for the AI to anti-air. Handy if you need to create space between you and an attacker(s), sharpish. Typical scenario for Ninja is two or more overlapping attackers - they'll burn through your three jab allowance near-instantly, better to back off and reset.
And, how exactly to you perform the move where Kunoichi jumps off an enemy's head? I've done it a few times, but I have no idea how.
Hold [away] during a jumpkick - you can stay airborne as long as there's another enemy to flip off of.

From Perikles's 1CC:
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[neutral] or [forward] will end with the standard jumpkick - this is a really useful (and fun!) way to floor meddlers before comboing on a primary target. Sadly doesn't work in TNWAA, it's a hard knockdown there.
Last edited by BIL on Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vanguard
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:TNWA's controls are, to the best of my knowledge, perfect.
There's at least one flaw. Throw an enemy to the right while holding left on the d pad (or vice versa) and press attack on the first frame after regaining control. Your character will attack right instead of turning around to attack left.
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Well-spotted. :mrgreen: I was almost going to mention the odd "traction" the game has with crouch combos (connect the first hit and you're free to let go of the pad while the character remains crouched for the rest, or even hold [up / up+away] to prime a super attack), but that seemed more like part of the expertly nebulous input window on supers.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by EmperorIng »

How do you do Kunoichi's gut-punch combo? (perhaps this isn't in TNWOA? I still haven't figured all the moves)

I've been playing a lot of Ninja Warriors Once Again and am pretty floored by how gorgeous and fun the whole package is. Hard mode is a nice compensation for the larger screen size when it floods you with enemies (I suspect it just has the amount that spawn in for multi-player, but in a single-player setting). Managed to make it to stage 4 with my main gal Kunoichi last night. Using those new moves with the rest of her arsenal is just too fun.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Grapple, then [down + attack] ; hold the attack button for the full sequence, or release to break it off. Just like in TNWA, the very last hit does the lion's share of the damage, so you don't wanna break off early if you want the target dead! Not sure if it's still the game's single most powerful attack (guessing Raiden's got that covered EDIT: if not Ninja - a perfectly placed JIGOKU no ELBOW DROP is MARVEROUS) - but for Kunoichi it does a good chunk. Can combo into head slicer [down + atk in air], or shuriken / kunai [up + atk with meter, in ground/air respectively], or indeed both!

Spoiler
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In TNWA it's intensely vulnerable, in TNWAA it's 100% invincible - this rankled me hard at first, since I love glass cannon dynamics; however in the context of TNWAA's enormous melees and wild (yet tasteful!) juggles, it totally works. Use it to plunge into the heart of the crowd, assassinating a hardcase as the walls crash futilely in - then tear out of there with the head slicer, and hackysack a motherfucker clear across the screen for good measure. Image

It's remarkable how well these two games complement one another. In a perfect world where they had unlimited resources and time, I'd have loved the SFC one to be an unlockable.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by EmperorIng »

Ah thanks! I was just pressing the attack button, and not holding it! I wonder if the other characters have different throws based on holding. It's amazing how much they get out of two buttons.
JIGOKU no ELBOW DROP
Fo' real... some of these attacks just feel so visceral and so good. See also: Raiden picking up two mooks, to swiftly crunch their bones into one another in loving embrace (Now kiss and make up, you two!).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

BIL wrote:43 minute clear, happy enough again.
Wached this today. You sure make comboing a jump kick into a throw look easy. The tactic I've had the best luck with so far is dodge jumping towards a crowd so I land just behind the guy in the back and then go for either a side throw or ideally an EX combo.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Vanguard wrote:You sure make comboing a jump kick into a throw look easy.
Thanks. :smile: The timing/spacing is quite subtle... Panther, Shadowman and Gigant (my current naming reference*) jabs can punish misplaced jumps and late kicks hard. From that run, there's at least a couple examples of jumps from too close - can't recall offhand if I got punished once safely airborne, but when I do, it's usually because I've left the kick too late and re-entered their reach. You can also kick too early, of course, with the retaliation stuffing you during or just after the jump.

Here's a simple GIF I made a while back to illustrate my favoured trajectory+timing. Not all the kicks are meant for combos - the first one aimed at the Panther is just to ward him off. At that range, there's no way I could chain a grab or even slash.

Spoiler
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Nailing a crowd ups the stakes a bit, ofc. This is a model example, really pleased with it. The Shinobu and... okay, I'm not calling him "Fire Ninja." :shock: With the animal theme, why didn't they go with Salamander? He's the Firebreather to me, god damn it! Anyway, those two are in wakeup, while the Panther and Fox are at optimal range, so nobody can avoid a pitch-perfect shoe in the teeth! Then, I enjoy a nice Haddaway for my efforts, as everyone nods their heads to the 90s club sound. Although this is taking place in a deserted carpark, so I suppose it's more of an illegal rave.

(much love to Technos-style left/right/left combo animations! and to Jonny, for translating that interview with Muneki Ebinuma! Image)
The tactic I've had the best luck with so far is dodge jumping towards a crowd so I land just behind the guy in the back and then go for either a side throw or ideally an EX combo.
Somersaulting over a rowdy mob and flattening them with a side throw is an excellent crowd control tactic - puts everyone in wakeup, where the player is basically invincible. Also good for snuffing incipient pincers - with the somersault being front-invincible, you can be extremely aggressive busting it out; it'll often barge straight through would-be anti-airs. Backflips can accomplish similar, but you have to be really careful with their total lack of rear guard. Again from st4-2, that bitch Shadowman gets owned

Kinda related, one of my favourite moments in that run is this backflip. It's just really satisfying how the blocked hit blows Kunoichi back slightly. The innate "feel" of TNWA is superbly well-judged. Everything's got a satisfying, palpable heft, without ever compromising the action's crisp Final Fight-esque simplicity.

*took a quick look at the SFC manual when I was home earlier this week, and yep, everything's in Japanese.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

BIL wrote: Nailing a crowd ups the stakes a bit, ofc. This is a model example, really pleased with it. The Shinobu and... okay, I'm not calling him "Fire Ninja." :shock: With the animal theme, why didn't they go with Salamander? He's the Firebreather to me, god damn it!
The fire guy reminds me of Ken, so I think of him as "Violent Ken".
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