Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

For whatever reason (actually it started due to a private conversation here), I've decided to become more knowledgeable of gaming firsts and genre development histories

To that end, I have a question. What was the first side scrolling action platformer (not shooter). What is the origin of the genre after which this thread is named?

So:

• 1. XZ (or "side") view
  2. Scrolls at least horizontally, although it can scroll vertically or flip vertically too.
  3. You can't shoot by default (but may with a power up of some kind).
  4. But you can strike by default.
  5. At some point, you must jump in order to progress.

So far, I have Legend of Kage as the first. Seems a bit late though. Also, I'm not sure of the date of Kage, some places I read October 1985, others I read 1984 (unspecified month). If 1984, very likely to be the very first.

You can shoot by default in Kage - shuriken on Button 2, standard Iga-Ryu equipment.

Spoiler

PLS Play This Ninja Action BGM While Reading Post ♫ (｀ω´メ)



Ready to fight! Ready to kill! Ready to die!

Kage even awards more points for slashing enemies up close and personal, much like Metal Slug and (IIRC) Shinobi. Echoing Sumez, I've always seen it listed as 1985, with its excellent Famicom conversion arriving the following year.

It's an interesting question. I'm cheating a bit, but Spartan X (1985, aka Kung Fu Master) fulfills criteria 1-4, and while there's no platforming, you most definitely have to jump its low projectiles, with deadly precision. An ethos more Versus Fighting than sidescrolling action.

Akumajou Dracula is 1986 - that's the earliest game I can think of that unequivocally nails all five critera. However, 1985/86 has always felt perilously late to me, too. Absent friend Drum was always coming up with wild stuff from the late 70s/early 80s bracket. It wouldn't surprise me if something there fits. Planning to do some proper archaeology after I've retired with mad cash and mad 1LCs to my name.

And as is my wont, I'm just thinking of Japanese arcade/console stuff. As Welsh said, there's Pitfall and other occidentals to consider... I've been wondering if Pitfall was any influence on Rygar, with its two-tiered panoramas.

Though you can't go below in Rygar - strictly for advance warning purposes.

Spoiler

Dracula is a neat starting point for what I consider The Famicom's Eternal Forte: the "Compact Action Man" school of sidescrolling action/platforming. CV doppelganger Ninja Gaiden being an obvious example, also including Sunsoft's Batman, Aicom's GUN-DEC, Human's Jigoku Gokurakumaru, Natsume's Dragon Fighter, Yami no Shigotonin Kage and Solbrain, plus more I'm forgetting offhand...

As my label implies, I consider sprite/screen ratio an aspect of the style. While Castlevania IV technically passes, I mentally dissociate it from Dracula X and Bloodlines' more compact sprites. But it's mostly about strike-primary, shot-secondary action/platforming, in discrete stages, with the player a slashing killer by default. Mario stomp is ok, as in Rygar's FC sequel Hachamecha Daishingeki, but that game's free-roaming ARPG format knocks it out. See also Zelda II. Shot-primary is a no-no, disqualifying Top Secret and its FC sequel Hitler no Fukkatsu, plus the Shinobis, Contras and Rockmen. Spartan X is out, too - no platforming to speak of. Spartan X2 would just about squeak in, though I think it's kinda lame. Rygar (1986) would be just as strong a starting point as Dracula.

Needless to say, this is all very idiosyncratic. Just a little sub-grouping for an aesthetic dear to my heart. Not cleared for academic purposes! Believe it or not, it was R2RKMFv1 (THE FALL OF DR. BIRUFORD)'s topicality guideline.

Ikari's director alleged Heavy Barrel was a literal Ikari hack and I'd certainly believe it.

Aww jeeze, rad. Man I need to brush up. I wonder if he's the same chap who directed Guevara? He seems to have been a true auteur of the Tactical Rotary Action.
And he could nail a killer Famicom port - unlike Heavy Barrel's! Zing-a-ling-ling! (I kinda like FC Heavy's big guns, but that player-leashing scroll speed? Pfft. GET THA FUUUCK OUTTA HEEAH. don' be interruptin' between a wolf and he lunch. Thafucksamattawitchoo?)

EDIT: Just when I thought blackoak's Akamatsu Special was the only gem I'd missed while on sabbatical...

KOJI OBADA IS SUPER COOL (■｀ω´■)



THE MAN DO RAD ARMY ACTIONS

As per a few pages back, lately I've also gained a strong appreciation of Taito's Front Line. Seems to have inaugurated this rich seam of topdown rotary mayhem. Has its issues - screen edge riding, mainly - but it's hard not to be charmed by its Ikari '82 bravado.

Re: Guevara (*switches to Kommunist mode*). OK, may I ask you to remind me what the Ikari series amounts to? I recall that you (or someone else?) dissected the games in detail, and rather than asking you a rehearse, I am wondering if you could link me to the discussion again.

Hmm. Can't recall writing much on the Ikaris myself - I've only gotten into them recently, via Arcade Archives. Offhand, I recall GaijinPunch and Macaw being the most lettered Ikariposters, here and on the Gamengai forums.

I did try Ernesto's game yesterday (after risking arrest, see the other already embarassing thread), and it clearly is irrationally hard, but perversely fun. Should I buy a few pints* of Valium before trying the FC version and (gasp!) the other Ikari's?

FC Guevara is harder than console norms, but it's not punishing unless you're going for superplay runs (no deaths, all prisoners). In that case it'll demand rehearsal, like any action game really. If you blast through with abandon, you'll have a rip-roaring time, but you'll also be haunted by truckloads of dead hostages and their -500PT graves. (kusoplay, aka THAT WASN'T REAL COMMUNISM-play )

AC Ikari and Dogosoken (ignore Micronics' weak FC ports) are tough, but potentially tougher is adjusting to their deliberately glacial movement. Ever played Gain Ground? Same deal, to the point I wonder if GG's devs were influenced at all. Player and enemies alike are bound to harshly tactical speed limits. You simply cannot twitch-dodge, with shots liable to nail the unaware from far upscreen. Calculation is key - macro dodging, preemptive flanking, tactical strafing. Stultifying on paper, alchemic in practice - hard-fought death marches with gruelling pressure.

Ironically, Obada's earlier T.A.N.K. (aka TNK-III) has none of the Ikaris' strictures. Ralf's titular iron horse tears around the battlefield, much like the eponymous chibi-godtank of Toshio Toyota's later seek/destroy gem Granada.

Another possible adjustment issue are their rotary controls. If you're not on a real LS-30 or modern equivalent, it'll take some working around. I've been playing the ACA versions on PS4, and although a gamepad is never going to replicate the LS-30, I'm really happy with the control setup detailed at the foot of this post. Can handle anything the games throw out, to 1LC standard - use the right stick for snap shots, the "fast" buttons for ballparking, and the "slow" for precision adjusts.

From what I've seen of hardware 1CCs (like the superb Janet's), it's certainly no disadvantage - the right stick's ability to snap 180' might even be helpful. Either way, it's my current recommendation for LS-30 action on gamepad. The Dual Shock 4 works nicely on Windows 10 PCs, that much I can confirm, though I'm unsure how closely MAME matches ACA's control options.



Dogosoken's sword is, as its triumphal presence in the game's flyers and POPs suggest, integral. Once it arrives at the halfway mark you'd better get it, and keep it! The game's entire second half is designed around kamikaze banzai charges. What's that, soldier? An impenetrable phalanx of enemy armour is machinegunning your position, and you lack so much as a blasted shitting stump to cower behind?! SOLDIER, ARE YOU SOME KINDA PANTIES

HIROHITO DAISUKI BANZAIII DESU (｀ω´メ)

Spoiler

Special commendation to the storming OST. While Ikari's BGM is martially austere, if you dig fiery Toaplan/DECO Gamushara, Dogo will deliver!

> Cruel Killers (power chord barrage reminds me of Bloody Wolf's opening motorcycle rampage - also, one for the Evocative VGM Titles thread!)
> Run To The Field (fiery! IKARI, even! traversing the hellish battlefield, cutting down fiends left and right! )
> Count Down (the only stage BGM used twice, in succession at that, classy pick for the tough final stretch)

Ah, tank tops and proper manhood fighting, etc. Do we have discussions about Thunder Fox in the index? It has been years but the 1-LC may be coming from yours truly. Where should I orderly and politely spam my 2 bitcoin cents?

Big appreciator of Thunder Fox here (much like Ikari and Dogo, avoid the lame Mega Drive conversion! AC or bust!).

*HONK HONK* GIT OUTTA MAH ROAD YA FUCKIN DAFT CUNTS, OFFIES CLOSIN SOON (■｀W´■)

Spoiler

I've been dining out on that GIF for years, but in my meager defense, it'd be hard to capture something more emblematic of the game's batshit Rolling Thunder X Ninja Warriors charm. Precision blasting, head-stomping moveset, groovy tunes and stacks of dead foes... it's a vintage joint. Even the pair of STG segments acquit themselves! I like going for those 100% shootdown bonuses.

[Licorice]

Thanks for the answers everyone.

Beautiful post as usual from BIL. I did indeed listen to that BGM while reading and it was amazing.

And yes, "pit" which you can fall in seems to be a far more concrete and accurate differentiator. This important element disqualifies Dragon Buster and also Spartan.

And yes, Kage should indeed be disqualified due to the default shot. Also doesn't have pits iirc probably due to moon gravity.

Jungle Hunt has all the elements in each of the minigames, but doesn't tie it together.

This seems to often be the case in the early history of games, when all the elements exist in different games but then one finally stumbles upon a winning combination.

Could it really be that Castlevania was the first all the way in 1986 to combine striking, scrolling and jumping over pits?

Might not be so far fetched given push scrolling with pits was 1984 (Pacland) and I have no idea when push scrolling with striking was but probably 1984 too (Dragon Buster).

[Sumez]

And yes, Kage should indeed be disqualified due to the default shot. Also doesn't have pits iirc probably due to moon gravity.

I'm not sure I understand the qualifications?
Are you claiming that both Kage and GnG are not genuine bonafide R2K games?

[Marc]

Picked up ACA POW over the weekend. Only played a few credits, but first impressions are good. It's balls hard, but it's got that 'snap' that all the best Technos brawlers have.

[Licorice]

I'm not sure I understand the qualifications?
Are you claiming that both Kage and GnG are not genuine bonafide R2K games?

Nah I'm not claiming that. Just inquiring into the origins of the Ninja Gaiden format or more accurately what I arbitrarily and idiosyncratically (to borrow BIL's phrase) see as its salient features (although I like to think I made a reasonable selection). All mentioned titles obviously are part of the shared history and I'm grateful people mentioned them, a lot I didn't know about or failed to view as possible influences.

As far my qualifications are concerned Ghosts'n'Goblins and Legend of Kage fit into the "run and gun" category due to their "can always shoot" feature. Precursors to things like Gunstar Heroes and Metal Slug more than things like Ninja Gaiden or Strider.

[Sumez]

So I pulled out Konami's Asterix since a small Facebook group I'm a member of decided to do a scoring contest in it, and I immediately hated it.



I know the Konami beat'em ups generally don't get a lot of love due to issues that have been discussed many times, but I also had the weird impression that Asterix was among the better ones - not only is the theme of Asterix really beautifully recreated in a colorful manner (I was a huge fan of the comic books as a kid) it also has a lot of unique levels with stage hazards to shake things up, avoiding the worst repetition you usually see in the genre.

Except it really doesn't. The game is painfully repetitive to an absurd degree. 80% of the game sees the same two enemy types repeated infinitely, and there's never any change in how you need to approach them. You have a small, nice variety of moves, including a quick sliding attack and long range jump attack, as well as a variety on throws which only work on downed enemies.
What you'll be using the entire game through however, is the chargeable wind-up punch, which is not only central to the game's scoring system (it knocks the helmets off enemies, each worth 100 points), but also the only way to safely approach most of the game's more dangerous enemies including most bosses.
It creates an awfully repetitive gameplay loop of walking away from enemies to charge up your punch, and then return to knock them out of the screen before your character gets exhausted. It still takes skill to pull off effectively, and the game is by no means easy (quite the contrary, any tiny screwup will immediately punish the player), but man I'm having a hard time finding it enjoyable.

[Sumez]

Man, the long stretches of super easy segments in Metal Slug 1 get really tedious fast (the first mission is an obvious example, but there are parts on every stage until the final mission, really).
I have a few other nitpicks, but I'll save it till I get the 1CC. There are a lot of things in this game that the sequels improved on, that I never really thought about before.

Game's still good, of course.

[Randorama]

Quick one as I am busy: how could you endure Asterix beyond the third stage or so, provided that you went beyond the third stage? I remember that the few times I played this game, it felt like a torture, and as a kid I somehow liked Konami licensed stuff

[Sumez]

I credit fed till the end, but I'm definitely never gonna do that again.

[BrianC]

BIL, thanks for the heads up on Shin Shinobiden (as it's written on the side of the disc case). I'm enjoying it so far and it definitely feels like a true sequel to Super Shinobi II.

[Jonny2x4]

BIRU, well yes, DECO had a thing for the good ol' US of A. The coolest game on Earth, Crude Buster, might be a bit relevant to this topic, but I'd add the RoboCop titles also carried this vibe. I also forgot about the other titles you mention, and I would add that Nitro Ball is half Reaganomics, half Howard Chaykin's Flagg!, and all glorious late '80s/early '90s glorious style.

They also changed the ending image of Werewolf for the US version to have the hero hold Old Glory itself. The only thing missing here is a chiptune rendition of Real American.

I really wish someone (other than Johnny Turbo) would get the rights to Edward Randy.

Recently I got the PS4 ACA versions of Renegade, as well as Double Dragon 1 & 2. Kinda annoyed that the Kunio-kun version of Renegade isn't on the US PS Store. The JP Store has both of them separately since it's one of their early ACA releases before they started including multiple versions in one package. DD1AC is much tougher than I remember being when you try to beat it without elbowing enemies. I ended up caving in to temptation and ended up elbowing everyone in my last DD1AC playthrough.

I'm not sure which ACA games to pick up next. Pretty tempted on either, Ninjawarriors or Mr. Goemon. The latter had such a badass tagline.

泣くのは弱い者ばかり

[Marc]

Ninja Warriors is literally the only ACA title I've ever wanted a refund on. The widescreen presentation is cool and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the whole thing moves so slowly I just can't get into it. There's no comparison between this and something like Shinobi or Rolling Thunder.

Actually, once first impressions have worn off, I'm not too impressed with POW either.

[BIL]

Beautiful post as usual from BIL. I did indeed listen to that BGM while reading and it was amazing.

And yes, "pit" which you can fall in seems to be a far more concrete and accurate differentiator. This important element disqualifies Dragon Buster and also Spartan.

And yes, Kage should indeed be disqualified due to the default shot. Also doesn't have pits iirc probably due to moon gravity.

Incidentally, Kage's spiritual Famicom sequel Fudoh Myouou Den (aka Demon Sword) has pits, and exactly as you'd expect, they make each soaring wuxia jump a deadly gamble. It's a shame, as just like in Kage, jumping is already plenty dangerous on account of enemies. You can collect items that'll save you from pits, but the drop order is totally random.

Could it really be that Castlevania was the first all the way in 1986 to combine striking, scrolling and jumping over pits?

Might not be so far fetched given push scrolling with pits was 1984 (Pacland) and I have no idea when push scrolling with striking was but probably 1984 too (Dragon Buster).

Good point about Pac-Land, I forgot about that one! It appearing in 1984, with Super Mario Bros in '85, and outright "combat platforming" in '86 sounds like a reasonable timeline, barring something more obscure (or something Western I'm forgetting, or outright unaware of - I'm a lot more conversant with JP stuff).

From a quick GameFAQs/Wiki browse, it seems Rygar might predate Dracula by a few months (May vs September). For now, I'd say it's between those two. Ironic, given their 1987 sequels (Hachamecha Daishingeki and Dracula II) dropped the discrete stages like a hot potato, both now regarded (correctly imo) as sophomore slumps.

And then Tecmo created "pro Dracula ROMhack" FC Ninja Ryukenden, the following year. I will always be hooked on this stuff and its collective history.

Man, the long stretches of super easy segments in Metal Slug 1 get really tedious fast (the first mission is an obvious example, but there are parts on every stage until the final mission, really).
I have a few other nitpicks, but I'll save it till I get the 1CC. There are a lot of things in this game that the sequels improved on, that I never really thought about before.

Game's still good, of course.

I used to hate st2's bridge and st3's vertical climb, but I gradually warmed up to them this time around. The former since you can actively demolish it, the latter... well, you can't speed up that dull lift, but you can at least blow through the rest with a degree of recklessness.

It clarifies to me why MS3's final mission is such a goddamn drag - those autoscrollers completely deprive the player of forward momentum. Currently at a 2CC, coming back together nicely, and holy fuck I still feel the hype when you explode out of that rocket with the cosmos screaming past... but it's pure marathon. Marathon runners are all bony and shit! I wanna be the IRONMAN, baby! (ala SAIGO NO NINDOU - ten minutes you NEVER wanna have to 1LC at gunpoint )

Headphones warning: ABAREEE!

BIL, thanks for the heads up on Shin Shinobiden (as it's written on the side of the disc case). I'm enjoying it so far and it definitely feels like a true sequel to Super Shinobi II.

My pleasure! It's good stuff - I try not to play gaming psychologist too much ( ), but I've no doubt whatsoever that were SSD as immortally cool as SS1&2, it'd be championed as a lost classic. It's unfortunately goofy-lookin', but those mechanics are sharp - I always miss the rolling katana and running shuriken in SS2. It doesn't handle as airlock-tightly as that game, but it's more than serviceable, and its stage designs dodge the excessive autoscrolling.

In a generation that saw a steep comedown from 8bit/16bit sidescrolling action/platforming (of its original productions, I would say only Taromaru and Little Ralph really measure up to the best), it's a welcome B+ title.

Recently I got the PS4 ACA versions of Renegade, as well as Double Dragon 1 & 2. Kinda annoyed that the Kunio-kun version of Renegade isn't on the US PS Store. The JP Store has both of them separately since it's one of their early ACA releases before they started including multiple versions in one package.

Renegade actually isn't available for purchase on J-PSN, at least AFAIK, but if you buy three Technos games you'll receive it as a free gift. That's how I ended up with it anyway (after getting DD1, DD2 and Kunio, all must-haves in my book regardless).

I'm not sure which ACA games to pick up next. Pretty tempted on either, Ninjawarriors or Mr. Goemon.

Mr. Goemon is more likeable, imo. The SonSon-styled platforming isn't as ambitious as Rygar or Wonder Boy's scenic trips, but ala Capcom's game, it's an immediate hit of sprinting pace and sharp handling, and its sprites are madly charming.

I like Ninja Warriors too, though I could see its robo-marching pace turning off some. I hope Thunder Fox gets an ACA release at some point. While my love of TNWA's true "sidescrolling beat 'em up" hopefully needs no reiteration, I consider Thunder Fox the real "Ninja Warriors 2" with its rampant stab/stomp simplicity.

The latter had such a badass tagline.
泣くのは弱い者ばかり

Aww HELL yeah Instantly shortlisted for future R2RKMF chapter title.

Ninja Warriors is literally the only ACA title I've ever wanted a refund on. The widescreen presentation is cool and the soundtrack is pretty good, but the whole thing moves so slowly I just can't get into it. There's no comparison between this and something like Shinobi or Rolling Thunder.

Actually, once first impressions have worn off, I'm not too impressed with POW either.

I've sat out POW for the time being... it seems entirely too reliant on jumpkicks for my liking. None of Technos's calculating brutality, just relentless spam. I can get down with a "one move only" affair, as long as that move is rad, but this isn't doing it for me. I've been lukewarm on the FC conversion for years, and tbh this feels a small step further back into mediocrity.

Rad style though, getting close to APEX MACHO.

As for ACA regrets, while it performs to their usual sharp standard, I got burnt by Athena. Weakest game I've bought in the last decade. Which isn't saying much, as my shelf is the mightiest in Tinkletowne by far! I know what I like, and I rigorously vet my purchases with TEH ROMZ (if possible), plus trusted players' footage and reviews. Guess what I didn't do here. Was riding high on an SNK kick after the superb TANK, Ikari and Dogo.

The game is predicated on turning your shitty starting character into something respectable. Which is fine, standard ARPG procedure, but it goes too far. And for an ostensibly "treasure hunting" game, it completely screws that pooch with the worst screen riding I have ever encountered in my fucking life. Also it's fugly and shrill. I've just not had the inclination to put up with its bullshit, for now.

The character's second outing, Psycho Soldier, is entirely more likeable on first impressions. A SonSon-esque much like Mr. Goemon, with Dogo-calibre carnage and a cute style. Need to give it some proper time, first three stages were rad.

For now, I'm gonna look forward to Obada-san's Guevara.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Cleared Osman the other day. I had misgivings about it at first, but I ended up really coming around to it. It's got Strider's immense style and charisma (though, I think, with somewhat less-cool setpieces - nothing in Osman is as conceptually cool as Strider's battleship raid in its third stage), but with more developed mechanics and better bosses.

Osman's freely-controllable jump is better suited to the game's giant character sprites than Strider's fixed arc, and the afterimage mechanic is excellent and does a good job of pushing you to learn boss and enemy movements so you can set traps for them (in this game, the afterimages don't follow you like Gradius's or Ninja Spirit's, pressing the attack button sets them in place at your current position and you can have around three out at any given time, so you can make walls of death for enemies to run into). I have to give a nod to your grab attacks, which are a great idea (turn fodder enemies into aimed projectiles to kill others with, toss higher-hp enemies away from you so you don't have to deal with them), but you don't really get many opportunities to meaningfully use them once you get past the third stage or so.

The bosses are pretty cool too - they're just erratic enough that you can't simply memorize most of them and usually require a lot of mobile play to rush down and trap effectively. I especially like Tianon, who becomes invincible and charges in for a grab move at various angles and speeds whenever she takes hits, but then quickly darts away to do an AoE attack - so you have to keep your distance when she recoils after taking damage, but you can't stay so far away that you won't be able to get in and punish her once her invincibility ends. The fight keeps both you and her moving all over the field, and the erratic terrain of the multiple possible arenas you can fight her in means getting your positioning right every time isn't a sure thing.

I do think the game's power-down is a little too harsh. You don't start with afterimages; you build them up by picking up multiple powerup items (one item gets you one afterimage, I think, then you can power up your attack and range on top of that), and every hit you take knocks you down a level, removing your afterimages one by one. The game's bosses and a handful of difficult enemy formations near the end of the game seem specifically balanced around being fought with afterimages, though, so if you start taking hits and get knocked around, it can get very difficult to get back on your feet with base firepower. Given how random some of the bosses can be, the initial learning phase of the game can be very punishing, and maybe a little excessively so. The developers did seem to recognize this, though, so powerups are pretty common, and most bosses and minibosses even have a few in their arena in case you take hits.

Stage 5 isn't especially good either, I feel. The level is full of annoying machine gunner enemies who pop on screen and instantly spray bullets that go all the way across the playing field, and the stage's last segment has you climbing up a tower with enemies who fill the screen with attacks as soon as they appear. It's all very memorizable and fairly fun to zoom through once you know what to do, but given how strict the powerdown system is, it really makes the stage tedious to learn. It doesn't helped that the level is capped off by a boss that seems to be literally impossible to beat without bombing if you go in with no or minimum powerups, too. (The final stage has a few awkward memorizer moments too, including a particularly nasty blind jump you have to make right at the end.)

But ultimately the game isn't a difficult clear (I'm motivated to go for a no-death run given how close I've gotten), and the stumbling points are pretty minor. Because of its strong scenarios, evocative (if nonsensical, in part seemingly due to the truncated English script) story, absurdly fast pacing, and its fairly-developed mechanics, I'd say it's an excellent game, and probably better overall than Strider while still being slightly rough around the edges.

I've also been dabbling a little with Rygar and Ninja Warriors. My early, preliminary impressions of both games:

Rygar - initially seems like a fantastic action game with great pacing and mechanics. The basic attack does seem a little weird at times, though, the delay on the shot makes hitting aerial enemies awkward, and there's something weird going on with the hitbox for the upwards, pendulum swing (I swear it goes through enemies directly in front of you sometimes and I'm not sure what's going on). I admire the game's fast pacing and how punishing it gets, but I kind of wish the powerups got doled out faster; I hardly ever get to play around with them, especially the tiger jump. Seems like a long game by arcade standards; I hope it can support its length.

The Ninja Warriors - unfortunately I don't think I like this, though it's still pretty charming. I don't mind the slow walking, but I don't like how every "heavy" enemy (male and female ninjas, firebreathers, cyborgs, kusarigama guys) has to be dismantled with what feel like unintuitive and borderline nonsensical strategies (the weird dance you seem to have to do to open up the male ninjas especially). Everything feels like it's probably consistently learnable, and it looks like the game mostly stops introducing new enemies after stage 3, but getting anywhere in this game feels like a real trudge.

[Randorama]

I remember playing Ninja Warriors in the arcade (my uncle bought the Darius cab and then adapted it to play this title).

A general consensus back in the day (my uncle, father, and quite a few patrons) was that Taito wanted an MTV-like interactive videoclip, and forgot the game along the way (endless repetition of a few dumb enemies, slow pace, etc.).

I mean, I remember people playing the first two stages for the OST and then leaving the cab without finishing their credits.

I honestly believe that Taito produced a few more games with this issue (style over substance), and I would say that I am deeply biased towards them: as I kid I would religiously play whatever they would release.

[Sumez]

On the subject of "style over substance" Taito is probably the last company to come to my mind. I can think of few arcade developers with such a consistent focus on quality.
The Ninja Warriors definitely isn't a favourite of mine, though.

[Sumez]

I was looking for a stage select cheat for Metal Slug to practice the bridge section on the final mission, but couldn't find any so I made one myself. Here it is, for anyone interested:

In mame, it's a simple toggle option, here it is as xml format cheat:

Spoiler

Code: Select all

<mamecheat version="1">
<cheat desc="Start on">
	<parameter>
		<item value="0">Mission 1</item>
		<item value="1">Mission 2</item>
		<item value="2">Mission 3</item>
		<item value="3">Mission 4</item>
		<item value="4">Mission 5</item>
		<item value="5">Final mission</item>
	</parameter>
	<script state="run">
		<action>maincpu.pb@10E3B7=param</action>
	</script>
</cheat> 
</mamecheat>

It's not really awfully useful in an emulator that already has savestates though.

On unibios, it's a little more annoying since the memory address that it affects gets reset on the instructions screen. Basically press A+B+C+Start at exactly the same time to bring up the Unibios menu before the screen fades to black.
Then patch a value from From 0 to 5 (5 = final mission) to address 10E3B7. If done correctly, the stage will load immediately when closing the menu.

I think I got a good strategy down for the bridge (helped a lot when I learned you can spawn the enemies in smaller groups by not advancing as far as you're able to....), so now it's just a question of getting a run without any of those individual little mistakes which seems almost unavoidable in this game...

[BrianC]

tcrf mentions a stage select that is accessible via debug mode.

[Sumez]

I read about that, but though it was only for the later games?

TCRF even says: "Present in all the sequels is the Debug Menu."

[Marc]

I've sat out POW for the time being... it seems entirely too reliant on jumpkicks for my liking. None of Technos's calculating brutality, just relentless spam. I can get down with a "one move only" affair, as long as that move is rad, but this isn't doing it for me. I've been lukewarm on the FC conversion for years, and tbh this feels a small step further back into mediocrity.

Rad style though, getting close to APEX MACHO.

As for ACA regrets, while it performs to their usual sharp standard, I got burnt by Athena. Weakest game I've bought in the last decade. Which isn't saying much, as my shelf is the mightiest in Tinkletowne by far! I know what I like, and I rigorously vet my purchases with TEH ROMZ (if possible), plus trusted players' footage and reviews. Guess what I didn't do here. Was riding high on an SNK kick after the superb TANK, Ikari and Dogo.

The game is predicated on turning your shitty starting character into something respectable. Which is fine, standard ARPG procedure, but it goes too far. And for an ostensibly "treasure hunting" game, it completely screws that pooch with the worst screen riding I have ever encountered in my fucking life. Also it's fugly and shrill. I've just not had the inclination to put up with its bullshit, for now.

The character's second outing Psycho Soldier, OTOH, is entirely more likeable on first impressions, a SonSon-esque much like Mr. Goemon with some Dogo-outsized carnage and a cute style. Need to give it some proper time, first three stages were rad.

For now, I'm gonna look forward to Obata-san's Guevara.

Yeah, the jump kick is massively OP, throw in the odd back elbow and you're pretty much good to go. It's a damn shame, because audio-visually it's a proper 80's action flick in game form.

Shame about Athena, I remember enjoying the Speccy version as a kid and I've had an eye on it since release, while suspecting it might be a bit crappy. I'll probably still take a punt on the next half-price sale.

[Randorama]

+1 for POW and Athena.

I loved pre-Neo Geo SNK stuff as a kid, so whenever I play these as an adult (you know, nostalgia lane, etc.), I would like to go back in time and ask my child self WTF was wrong with him, really.

Also, fuck Thunder Fox, seriously. I am entitled to the 1-LC!

*back to play*.

[BrianC]

I read about that, but though it was only for the later games?

TCRF even says: "Present in all the sequels is the Debug Menu."

You misread. It's saying the menu is also in the sequels. The next sentence says the debug menu in the first game is different in presentation from the menu in the sequels.

[carlbarx]

I was looking for a stage select cheat for Metal Slug to practice the bridge section on the final mission, but couldn't find any so I made one myself.

Doesn't Metal Slug support the MVS Memorycard and let you choose between levels already cleared ?

[Jonny2x4]

I remember playing Ninja Warriors in the arcade (my uncle bought the Darius cab and then adapted it to play this title).

A general consensus back in the day (my uncle, father, and quite a few patrons) was that Taito wanted an MTV-like interactive videoclip, and forgot the game along the way (endless repetition of a few dumb enemies, slow pace, etc.).

I mean, I remember people playing the first two stages for the OST and then leaving the cab without finishing their credits.

I honestly believe that Taito produced a few more games with this issue (style over substance), and I would say that I am deeply biased towards them: as I kid I would religiously play whatever they would release.

It's weird, but Ninjawarriors doesn't seem to be all that well-regarded among western players, yet it's treated as a classic among the Japanese. Even when it was just coming out in Japan, you can see plenty of fanart for the game in issues of Gamest from around the time it just came out. And it's not like Ninjawarriors is some uniquely Japanese game or anything. It seems like the kind of stuff that was made to appeal to westerners.

[Randorama]

Jonny, I actually wonder if at the time (and maybe these days, too) we were a minority.

I say "we", but as a kid I was delighted to play the game, even if passion faded away by the time I could reach St 3 (it gets repetitive, alright).

I am pretty sure that designers were happy with people to play a 5 to 10 minutes-long credit even if they didn't like the rest of the game...the whole OST is outstanding, but Daddy Mulk remains one of the most evocative songs in an AC game ever, judging from the volume of covers and homages from just about everyone.

I still find it to be a masterpiece from a purely aesthetic point of view. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Japanese fans (and well, Western ones too) would end up admitting that playability left some to desire even for the year of release (but that's ultimately a conjecture).

In retrospective, I believe that with this and other Taito titles of the late '80s, pace was generally speaking erratic.

For instance: The New Zealand Story allows players to warp most of of the stages away, in one of its versions. Once the player reaches 3-4 (or 3-3?), it becomes necessary to meander through most of the remaining stages.

Liquid Kids, if I recall correctly, has less warps but also quite a bit of meandering, even if there should be more action too (i.e. kill enemies). In 2020, I feel that Taito programmers in 1987 had a lot to learn (e.g. from the Irem guys), and location testers in 1987 would probably not care about pace and/or complexity of the game.

EDIT:

I recently played Don Doko Don and Bonze Adventure some more (among other Taito games), which I feel that they fall within this general trend.

I would say that Bubble Bobble and Rainbow Island for action/platformers titles remain their masterpieces, and the rest were often immensely stylish but often uneven in the gaming department.

Actually, I can imagine that Taito would feel confident, even bullish that anything with a Zuntata OST would sell, period

[WelshMegalodon]

Are you factoring Darius Gaiden and Elevator Action Returns into that claim? Or would you group those into a separate category considering how much later they were?

[Randorama]

Are you factoring Darius Gaiden and Elevator Action Returns into that claim? Or would you group those into a separate category considering how much later they were?

Are you going to take screenshots of my answer and troll me about them for the rest of my life?

Subjectively, I have kept playing both games since their release on a period basis, because I feel that they were an indissoluble part of my teen years and the role that Taito games had on my "arcade life". I can still play these two and Rayforce and each single time, they act more like time (or maybe memory) machines than mere games, on my mind. I have their OSTs on CD (yes, the original Scitron versions), various fan materials, and so on.

Objectively, Elevator Action Returns is...OK, people could list its flaws and have scientific evidence to support their arguments. Same for Darius Gaiden and Rayforce. I cannot bring myself to even notice them, for the reasons listed above, but I can admit that EAR's scoring system leaves me cold for obvious reasons.

I would go on and say that a pub conversation on Taito would feature me praising just about everything they published no matter what, and everybody else at the table wondering how I can be absurdly biased ("cooome on, X is bloody rubbish!").



I have two examples out of many: Insector X AC, and perhaps within topic, Crime City (insert list of emojis here!). Can we count Rastan in?

[Sumez]

Elevator Action Returns is stylish as hell, it's very cool and enjoyable to some extent, but I feel like it might be a pretty decent example of "style over substance". I don't think it has that much going for it gameplay-wise.
Even then, I think it's solid enough to prove that Taito were consistently great at their craft.
I'm not sure I could really criticize TNZS or Liquid Kids either - I find both games to be excellent. I think you can actually warp through a bigger portion of the game in Liquid Kids (skipping at least one boss fight), but why isn't that cool? Makes for a nice scrub clear with more to come back for.

Also every other taito-developed Bubble Bobble sequel even after Rainbow Islands remains magnificent.

Doesn't Metal Slug support the MVS Memorycard and let you choose between levels already cleared ?

The what now!
I've never seen one of those in real life

[Marc]

Can we count Rastan in?

Ooh. Rastan is a stand-out in my mind, but it's been a long time since I played it properly - back on the Xbox/PS2 comps. I'd still snap up an ACA release in a heartbeat.

[Randorama]

OK, TNZS and LK are games I adore but cheat my way through, at a given point - I feel that the final sections are about navigating labyrinths a bit too much. I warp as much as possible, too. Maybe all those labyrinths can be proven to be "bad design", by modern wisdom.

Rastan feels a lot like "1 stage, x6, add cosmetic variants & Bosses", but I still feel it to be immensely atmospheric (St 3's cavern background is recycled from Darius, I am sure). Nastar, on the other hand...